Door5right From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 709 posts, RR: 15 Posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 18708 times:
Anyone interested in the chaos and appalling management of LHR these days may enjoy the following tale of a delayed Emirate flight from Dubai to LHR being diverted to Gatwick - only no-one told the pilot who landed at LHR only to then have to tell the pas they weren't getting off but were now about to have a fifteen minute hop across to LGW!
Full story eloquently narrated by Simon Calder in todays Independent newspaper at link below
Antonovman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 18600 times:
Quoting Door5right (Thread starter): Anyone interested in the chaos and appalling management of LHR these days may enjoy the following tale of a delayed Emirate flight from Dubai to LHR being diverted to Gatwick - only no-one told the pilot who landed at LHR only to then have to tell the pas they weren't getting off but were now about to have a fifteen minute hop across to LGW!
I think that should read appalling management of EK operations. Should it have been the job of LHR management to call the captain on the radio or send him an ECARS message telling him to divert to LGW ? I think not ! EK Ops job that
Sanjet From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 18461 times:
I just feel like there's more to this story. I mean pilots usually call their company OPS at the approaching airport to advise them of their ETA. Feels weird that they wouldn't at least tell the pilots that they must divert to Gatwick?!?
Leezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4043 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 18414 times:
Quote: Heathrow's ground handlerswere stood down.
Thats rubbish, I know who does Emirates ramp handling, and certainly the ramp staff would have been there until after midnight, so the a/c could have been offloaded. Maybe the customer services staff had been sent home, but I doubt that either.
Quote: 9.40pm: Touchdown at Heathrow
The latest take off time for the noise curfew at LHR is 23:29 to be lined up at the end of the runway for the ban to come in at 23:30, so I don't understand why they couldn't have turned the a/c round in that time, unless "facts" have conveniently been missed out by Mr. Calder.
Lets get one thing straight, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with the BAA or Heathrow Airport Ltd (not often I'll back them up), it is purely down to Emirates themselves.
As the situation unfolded, and they found the a/c HAD actually landed at LHR, the best thing for them to do would have been to revise the plan of action, and offload the a/c at LHR, then if they really needed to, position the a/c empty to LGW, but this would have all depended on crew hours. Although hindsight is a wonderful thing, and coming from an Airline Ops background, I know how even the best thought out plans can go drastically wrong if one minor thing is forgotten, or something else comes along and screws the plan up - both of which happened in this case !!.
Not a huge fan of Simon Calder. For such a well travelled, travel journalist he often gets things very wrong or conveniently misses out vital facts to make the company he chooses to slate this week appear stupid/rubbish/incompetant - delete as applicable. Heck in the 2nd paragraph he can't even spell Gatwick !!
Quote: your boarding pass says Gatwich
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
JustPlanes From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 892 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 18015 times:
Shame on EMIRATES for doing this to the inbound LHR pax! There is no excuse for that.
If they were already on the ground at Heathrow they should have at least let the pax disembark.. then ferried the a/c empty to Gatwick.
I also wonder what the fuel situation was when that aircraft landed at Gatwick.
Ryanair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 17938 times:
Simon Calder talks out of his arse most of the time, but yes he was definitely on the flight because last Sunday morning he rang into Radio Five Live at around 0100 in the morning, I was listening. I like the way he always mentions the "Pilot" when actually there is two people flying the machine, somebody should tell him that.
If he was being diverted, it would upon his company orders, or the airports. LHR was not shut to arriving a/c at that time, and air traffic would not send a flight anywhere else without a refiled flight plan from the EK ops dept.
This whole story just smacks of inconsistantcies..
flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
Indy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4614 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 17638 times:
This is just a guess from someone who does not work for an airline. It seems to me the diversion was the brainchild of the airline and not the airport. It seems the airline wanted the diversion so they could do their 2 hour turnaround without having to deal with the noise restrictions. It seems LHR had no problem with them landing otherwise they wouldn't have been given clearance to land. It seems the airline figured out their problem after they landed that they had moved to the other airport. I doubt its LHR's problem to know that the airline decided to move its passengers. I could be wrong. But this just seems like it is all on the airline.
LHRBlueSkies From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 493 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 17600 times:
Quoting Indy (Reply 19): so they could do their 2 hour turnaround without having to deal with the noise restrictions.
a rule of thumb is, if you speak to the airport in advance, they are normally pretty accommodating in letting you break the curfew, because they don't want 300+ pax stranded at their airport overnight.
flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 8105 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 17106 times:
Quoting Door5right (Thread starter): Anyone interested in the chaos and appalling management of LHR these days may enjoy the following tale of a delayed Emirate flight from Dubai to LHR being diverted to Gatwic
Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 4): Great story and sums up the absolute mess London airports are in!
Quoting DL767captain (Reply 17): I don't understand, how did he land at lhr if he was diverted wouldn't some one at lhr have told him when they were bringing him in? And if they were already on the ground why would they leave
You all need to read the story. The aircraft was very late leaving Dubai because EK had loaded it too heavily for the ambient temperature. Bad management by EK or BAA? Not BAA!
The aircraft was going to arrive too late to avoid the government enforced night curfew at LHR for the return flight. Was this the fault of EK management or BAA? Obviously EK.
EK bussed the passengers for the return flight from LHR to LGW before the revised ETA of the flight from DXB to beat the LHR curfew. Clearly EK management's and not BAA's decision.
EK failed to tell the EK pilot to divert to LGW. It is also clear that since EK management do not communicate directly with LHR ATC that we should flame not EK management but LHR ATC.
So EK management made a whole series of blunders and it is all down to BAA!
LHR and BAA are not the greatest performers in the world but those criticising them need to make sure they have at least read the thread and its contents before they get their flame guns out and this includes Door5right who clearly had not read what he posted when he started this thread with:
Quoting Door5right (Thread starter): Anyone interested in the chaos and appalling management of LHR these days may enjoy the following tale
So he comes out of this as badly as EK does. Will he apologise for flaming BAA and misleading so many of you? I doubt it. But we will see.
: I don't understand the significance of this quote. Will the taxi passenger have to pay for the travel between LGW and LHR and back, even though they
: how does anyone arrive at blame for BAA for this? It's all EK's fault, 100%. Diverting a plane to LGW was a choice by EK due to a total F-up at DXB (w
: OK but in that case how do explain the fact that they would have sat there for more than half an hour but been unable to offload the pax/bags... that
: The passengers should have demanded to get off the a/c. If the airline refused, then they could technically be accused of holding you hostage against
: Yep. Because this was not a weather diversion, but one specifically for the benefit of EK, they really had no right to take you against your will aft
: So why did LHR ATC not have anything to say to the Captain about his approach to the airport? Do ATC allow just anyone to land if they radio a request
: I am not saying this is directly BAA's fault. But surely it does seem extraordinary an aircraft lands at the airport it was originally destined for,
: As far as ATC would be concerned, the flight plan destination is LHR, and unless the flight plan is re-filed with LGW as the destination, they would b
: I am going to ask some pilots in EK about this flight cause this is weird as hell!!! But I have to say that if BAA were informed about the diversion t
: Flight EK005 was not "just anyone". It was a flight scheduled to land at LHR. It was also a flight where the Captain had filed a flight plan naming L
: I was on duty that night,all I can is it is a total embarassment!
: And here I thought completely messed up air travel was unique to the U.S. Nice to hear other Countries are sharing in our chaos!
: understatement of the year!!!! And as we have said, the a/c landed well before curfew, so could have been turned around, and if they had spoken to th