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What becomes of B6's Ops on T6 @ JFK When T5 Reopens?  
User currently offlineOD-BWH From Kuwait, joined Jan 2002, 399 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4402 times:

I know that this question might have been asked a 100 times, but I didn't do my homework, and No i didn't check other threads...  Smile

What is jetBlue going to do with T6 when the new T5 is ready? I beleive that T5 will be pretty enough for their requirements. Will it keep operating from T6? Or would it be handed over to the port authority?

Thanks anways...
OD-BWH


A300, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A343, A346, A388, B734, B738, B772, B773, F70
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePhatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1345 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4206 times:

I reckon the master plan calls for its demolition. The new T5 should be able to expand into the former T6 area should the need arise.

User currently offlineQQflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2264 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4076 times:

I asked my roommate the other day this very question. He works for B6. He wasn't sure, but he thought it might remain in operation. Apparently the new terminal only has 26 gates, roughly what B6 has now at T6 with the temporary satellite terminal. He thought it would be torn down to make room for a T5 expansion, or closed and renovated to open at a later date. He said B6 needs more room now, so who knows. With another year to go before the new T5 opens a lot could change between now and then. Nonetheless, it's a good question and I've been curious too.


The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4049 times:

Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 2):
Apparently the new terminal only has 26 gates, roughly what B6 has now at T6 with the temporary satellite terminal.

More like ~20 if I'm not mistaken (B6's current setup).


User currently offlineSan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4941 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4018 times:

Why would they get rid of T6? I'm sure someone can find a use for it once B6 moves, can't they?


Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16812 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3995 times:

The Port Authority owns T-6, so it's up to them. They could either demolish it to make room for hardstand parking, or more likely totally renovate it for Domestic US carriers such as UAL, CO, NWA and US Airways or even WN.

I don't think B6 has any say on the disposition of Port Authority property, they were only leasing space. So theoretically the Port Authority would want to go out and "land" so more leases to maximize the revenue potential, otherwise tearing it down is lost revenue for the Port Authority.

T-6 is domestic only, adding a FIS would add considerable cost to a T-6 makeover and possibly lure carriers away from higher rents at T-4 or T-1. Pulling CO, NWA, and US Airways out of T-4 creates more room for International carriers, and BA is in the process now of developing a trans-Atlantic operation out of JFK beyond the UK thanks to US/EU open skies. They will need some extra room at T-7, with UAL no longer in the International Business at JFK they could move their Trans-Con operations back to T-6. Then there's Virgin America, they might want a few of those gates.

So I highly doubt T-6 is going away, the Port Authority is going to further realize it's revenue potential through new leases.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineEYFlyer88 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3862 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
UAL, CO, NWA and US Airways or even WN.

I dont think UA/CO/NW/WN would be requiring their own terminal at JFK. But given US having taken on HP, I wouldnt be surprised (if T6 was vacant) if US took it.



There is no sport equal to that which aviators enjoy while being carried through the air on great white wings. - Wilbur
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16812 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3854 times:

Quoting EYFlyer88 (Reply 6):
I dont think UA/CO/NW/WN would be requiring their own terminal at JFK. But given US having taken on HP, I wouldnt be surprised (if T6 was vacant) if US took it.

I did not mean they would have it to themselves, I said CO, UAL, NWA, US would all move to T-6 since none are International from JFK but are currently operating out of International Terminals. T-6 is domestic, no FIS. Perfect place to consolidate Domestic carriers togther (CO,UAL,NWA, US, Virgin America and even WN).



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDL777LAX From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 521 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3819 times:

Quoting OD-BWH (Thread starter):
What becomes of B6's Ops on T6 @ JFK When T5 Reopens?

My guess is that B6 will decide to renovate T6 and expand out of T6 when renovation is completed, giving themselves a two terminal system with the potential to have up to 50 gates.



Blindly following anything is bad, unless of course your blind and your following a guide dog.
User currently offlineJetBlueAUS From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1145 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3806 times:

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 8):
My guess is that B6 will decide to renovate T6 and expand out of T6 when renovation is completed, giving themselves a two terminal system with the potential to have up to 50 gates.

That is what I was was thinking.



Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16812 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3794 times:

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 8):
My guess is that B6 will decide to renovate T6 and expand out of T6 when renovation is completed, giving themselves a two terminal system with the potential to have up to 50 gates.

LCC's don't need as many gates as legacies because they get more turns per gate than legacies because of their faster turn arounds. At WN's largest airports they don't have more than 25-30 gates, B6 does not need 50 gates. Besides there's plans to further expand T-5 beyond the 25 gates being built, should demand warrant expansion.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3792 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
I did not mean they would have it to themselves, I said CO, UAL, NWA, US would all move to T-6 since none are International from JFK but are currently operating out of International Terminals.

NWA will be operating an AMS flight for KLM soon, so NWA would probably stay in T4 with KLM.

[Edited 2007-08-06 05:27:06]

User currently offlineJetBlueAUS From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1145 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3781 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):
LCC's don't need as many gates as legacies because they get more turns per gate than legacies because of their faster turn arounds. At WN's largest airports they don't have more than 25-30 gates, B6 does not need 50 gates. Besides there's plans to further expand T-5 beyond the 25 gates being built, should demand warrant expansion.

While this is true... Southwest does not have a "main" airport of operations, like JetBlue. While JetBlue does have heightened service from BOS and FLL, it definitely doesn't compare to their JFK hub. JetBlue has Terminal 6 which has 17 gates, plus their temporary terminal which has 7 gates. If the new terminal only has 25 gates, then they only have one extra gate to add flights, and will not be able to expand JFK like they want to.

Correct me if my analysis is incorrect. I am not implying that "this is the way" its going to be. Its only my perception.

[Edited 2007-08-06 05:35:43]


Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16812 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3772 times:

Quoting JetBlueAUS (Reply 12):
Correct me if my analysis is incorrect. I am not implying that "this is the way" its going to be. Its only my perception.

How much more growth do you see from B6 at JFK, another 250 flights? They are looking at their current network for places they might cut, PIT is heavily rumored as being axed all together. With the escalating delays at JFK, I don't see them needing 50 gates. They are not going to double their operation, the airport cannot handle the additional flights nor do I think it's economical to B6 since some of the current routes they are flying might be axed soon.

B6 is going to start diversifying their operations, this Winter's ground delay fiasco proved to B6 they needed to be a little less JFK centric. Not to say it's not going to be their largest base, it is. Just look for more growth away from JFK in the future so that delays at JFK don't shut down their entire network.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineJetBlueAUS From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1145 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3766 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 13):
How much more growth do you see from B6 at JFK, another 250 flights? They are looking at their current network for places they might cut, PIT is heavily rumored as being axed all together. With the escalating delays at JFK, I don't see them needing 50 gates. They are not going to double their operation, the airport cannot handle the additional flights nor do I think it's economical to B6 since some of the current routes they are flying might be axed soon.

B6 is going to start diversifying their operations, this Winter's ground delay fiasco proved to B6 they needed to be a little less JFK centric. Not to say it's not going to be their largest base, it is. Just look for more growth away from JFK in the future so that delays at JFK don't shut down their entire network.

Well, they won't have 50 gates. 17 + 25 = 42. Temporary terminal is gone after Terminal 5 is complete. While they are looking to other cities to add flights, and getting away from the JFK business, they still have cities they need to add. And yes, I know they aren't added 16 cities like they did in 2006, only 2-4. I also know that it will take possibly four to six years to open up as many cities as they did in 2006, I'm just wondering where they will grab the gates once they are at the max again..

I know they are definitely not adding 250 flights from the JFK region anytime soon, but despite what they do, it will be for the best. Personally, I hope they start expanding FLL, though, that isn't on topic.



Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2970 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3716 times:

Quoting JetBlueAUS (Reply 14):
Well, they won't have 50 gates. 17 + 25 = 42.

The current Terminal 6 has 13 gates. The future Terminal 5 will have 26 with options to add another 10. However, I think this option includes knocking down Terminal 6 (which will result in not only more gates, but also more hardstand space).

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineTymnBalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 944 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3654 times:

I think the current plan is for T6 (originally National Airlines "Sundrome") to be demolished.

It would be a pity if that were to come to pass. The terminal was designed by reknowned architect IM Pei, who also designed structures such as the pyramied in front of the Louvre Museum.

C.



Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlineWerdywerd From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 564 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3633 times:

Internally, the ideas (a.k.a rumors) that are being thrown around are

1. Tear down T6 and expand the new T5 over to the side where T6 used to reside. This - I think - is the more plausible idea. Here is a really bad drawing I did so you can have a visual of what I am talking about.




2. Tear down T6 and build a parking garage

3. Tear down T6 and use it for hard stands

4. Tear down T6 and build a Hotel.


User currently offlineInTheSky74 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3567 times:

B6 is keeping T6. They will expant T5 into the area the T6 is currently in.

They are not giving up the area - they already have plans for it.


User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4242 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3493 times:

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 8):
My guess is that B6 will decide to renovate T6 and expand out of T6 when renovation is completed, giving themselves a two terminal system with the potential to have up to 50 gates.

The word I heard on the street is that JetBlue is going to continue some operations from T6 indefinitely. It's not that their new terminal is going to be too small - it will likely be underused for several years - but the reality is that JetBlue still wants to grow at JFK.

The cost of tearing down and rebuilding T6 (such as the example in Reply 17) would probably be cost prohibitive. JetBlue's financial situation right now makes it unlikely that this will happen. I agree with DL777 that it will probably be remodeled for some use by JetBlue, which may or may not include the demolition of part of the structure. As it is right now, when T5 is fully up and running, some of the current gates at T6 will have to be permanently closed anyway, so at most JetBlue might be able to salvage only 8-10 of the gates at that facility. If somebody from JetBlue knows more than this, please fill in some of the blanks.

My guess is that it could be used as an international wing (instead of using T4). This would involve the adding of INS and Customs, which is no mean feat, but this could facilitate future B6 growth into Caribbean and Mexican markets.

Quoting Werdywerd (Reply 17):
1. Tear down T6 and expand the new T5 over to the side where T6 used to reside. This - I think - is the more plausible idea.

2. Tear down T6 and build a parking garage

3. Tear down T6 and use it for hard stands

4. Tear down T6 and build a Hotel.

(1) Possible, but expensive option
(2) Unlikely
(3) More likely than #2, but unlikely
(4) I highly doubt it... nobody would want a hotel right at the terminal areas.

I think that (2) and (3) are unlikely because the revenue potential from these scenarios is quite small, compared to operating a functioning terminal.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
The Port Authority owns T-6, so it's up to them. They could either demolish it to make room for hardstand parking, or more likely totally renovate it for Domestic US carriers such as UAL, CO, NWA and US Airways or even WN.

Yes, technically the Port does own the terminals but JetBlue is the tenant calling the shots at the moment. Unless JetBlue vacates T6, no other airline can come in and use the facility. This reason alone is enough to believe that JetBlue will continue some operations from the old terminal - they wouldn't want Virgin America or, worse, Southwest to set up shop there, would they??!!

Quoting JetBlueAUS (Reply 14):
I know they are definitely not adding 250 flights from the JFK region anytime soon, but despite what they do, it will be for the best.

And this poses a real problem. Strategically JetBlue would love to expand from JFK and increase their base. But operationally, it is very very difficult right now, as anybody who has flown to/from JFK recently will attest to.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineJetBlueAUS From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1145 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3452 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 15):
The current Terminal 6 has 13 gates. The future Terminal 5 will have 26 with options to add another 10. However, I think this option includes knocking down Terminal 6 (which will result in not only more gates, but also more hardstand space).

Ah, okay. I misread their terminal map on their website. Sorry for my ignorance.



Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2872 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3420 times:

Quoting Richierich (Reply 19):
(1) Possible, but expensive option

True, however the new T5 is designed to continue its expansion into the T6 area if T6 is demolished. Don't be surprised to see a "wing" added on. T6 is very outdated, requires a HUGE amount of maintenance to keep it going, and doesn't have the space needed to deal with all the current day security measures that didn't exist decades ago when it was contructed. After all, how many pounds of $h*t are you going to shove into a 5 lb bag before it bursts LOL!

That expansion wing off of the new T5 could be for the international flights where customs could have a home. It would make more sense than continuing to use T4 for the international flights...especially if B6 is looking to expand further into the Caribbean or South America.

Quoting Werdywerd (Reply 17):
2. Tear down T6 and build a parking garage

Parking garage is already going up in the T5/6 parking area (which is why everyone has to go to T4 parking right now). Hopefully the current one will support the demand. I don't think the PA will want to take a cut out of AOA space to put up a parking garage...but you never know with the PA!!

Overall, the entire project is coming along and is expected to have an earlier opening than what was originally scheduled so long as there aren't any major glitches.

Just my  twocents 



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineOD-BWH From Kuwait, joined Jan 2002, 399 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3379 times:

Quoting Werdywerd (Reply 17):
Tear down T6 and expand the new T5



Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 21):
T6 is very outdated, requires a HUGE amount of maintenance to keep it going, and doesn't have the space needed to...

First, I don't think the NY Port Authority is ready to give up space like that... I beleive other airlines are dying to get a dedicated terminal or a room to expand (I'm not aware of JFK's status in fact, but this is my perception about all large hubs). And why would they build an extension to T5 in T6's place when T6 is already there? From an engineering point of view, I don't think upgrading this terminal will be a real problem for the authority. A live example is what is going on in T5.

Quoting Werdywerd (Reply 17):
2. Tear down T6 and build a parking garage

3. Tear down T6 and use it for hard stands

4. Tear down T6 and build a Hotel.

Make no sense at all... I don't think a hotel will fit nicely between terminals. Think about the noise there! It has to be located remotely to avoid such issues. Besides, it's not wise to build a hotel in an area that can be utilized for airside ops.



A300, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A343, A346, A388, B734, B738, B772, B773, F70
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4000 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3360 times:

How about Virgin America comes in and takes over T6?

User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4242 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3348 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 23):
How about Virgin America comes in and takes over T6?

I'm going to go on a limb here and say that JetBlue will do anything it can to make sure that doesn't happen. This is why I believe they will continue to use the space at T6 one way or another.



None shall pass!!!!
25 AAJFKSJUBKLYN : I beleive T6 may be up for landmark review as well! Built in 1970 for IM Pei, it is actually an architectural gem and was designed and rated the best
26 Post contains images AAJFKSJUBKLYN : here are some pictures of when it opened for you to enjoy!
27 JFK69 : Maybe B6 will hold onto it and lure in International carriers to partner up with. Obivously it would take a fair amount of renovations to make it an I
28 Rampart : According the WN's website (http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/press/factsheet.html#Top%20Ten%20Airports), their top 3 "hub-like" (my quotes) airport
29 Lowecur : Until JFK get's more airspace, I just don't see it being used to any degree. It will probably remain idle for a few years until someone wants to inve
30 Post contains images Mtb555 : I work at B6, and according to what's being said around town, B6 will keep T6, but close it for renovation after T5 is open and running 100%. There wa
31 InTheSky74 : A terminal 5 extention over to the current Terminal 6 (which will be torn down apparently) is currently already being planned. It will take several ye
32 JetBluefan1 : Is it just me, or is the ticketing hall in Terminal 6 a piece of art? The marble floors, the enormous windows...I think that it should be used. I'm no
33 Cloudboy : I have never been outside the secured area at T6, but I kind of like it. It certainly can't handle the kind of traffic Jet Blue puts thorugh it, and i
34 Apodino : Southwest uses a lot more than just 21 gates in LAS. I believe they have C gates primarily to themselves, with Aloha or ATA having an occasional depa
35 DiscoverCSG : I thought USAirways is in T7 with UA, where the old HP was. And doesn't CO use T3 with SkyTeam partner DL?
36 Rampart : That's interesting. I thought I remembered more gates at PHX, too. But what I gave above was a direct quote from WN's own website. I don't know what
37 RJpieces : HP/US is in T7. CO was in T2 but is now in T4.
38 ElmoTheHobo : Tell that to the folks who built the Hyatt at Terminal D in Dallas. Building hotels right next to terminals is becoming more attractive, particullarl
39 Brilondon : does't YYZ, DTW, CDG, all have hotels in the terminal area?
40 Apodino : And MCO
41 Richierich : Different airport, different set of issues at JFK. I highly doubt anybody is interested in building a high-end hotel at a largely O&D airport on one
42 JetBluefan1 : Nonetheless, if it were to be built, it would be packed with a.netters everyday doing some serious spotting!
43 Richierich : Indeed you are correct. My heart says that a hotel would be an awesome idea; my brain (as small as it is) says that it is highly unlikely if not impo
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