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SQ Mulling Business Class-Only To LAX, EWR  
User currently offlineAirbus A380 From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 522 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8449 times:

SIA mulls business class-only service on non-stop flights to NY, LA

- All non-stop flights from Singapore to New York and Los Angeles on Singapore Airlines (SIA) could well become an all-business-class affair.

- According to SIA spokesman Stephen Forshaw, these non-stop flights are targeted at business people and have always had high business class loadings. But the load for Executive Economy isn't always as strong during midweek.

- SIA is currently looking at its options for the flights, and no decision has been made. But there's talk that the change could happen as early as next year.

Source: channelnewsasia.com

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13116 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8363 times:

Isn't the 'Exceutive Economy' class seats and service on those SQ flights a lot like 'Business Class' seats and service on most other airlines? But I guess that the demand for the true business class seats on those flights may be exceeding supply and per seat a lot more profitable than the 'economy' seats, so why not consider an all biz configuration for them. We are seeing a lot more biz-premium only flights in other places in the world connecting major business centers. SQ is one of the most profitable airlines in the world and got there by catering to the business community, which Singapore is rather than tourist destination.

User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12476 posts, RR: 37
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8355 times:

I noticed that report on the news section and it got me thinking: if SQ configures the 345 in an all- Class, would it be too much capacity for the route?

What I'm thinking is that, a few years down the road, SQ could go for a HGW/extended range version of the 787-8 (the same one QF is looking at for SYD-LHR) and that would allow it to retire the A345s; considerable saving there (i.e. one fleet type removed) and of course the 788ER would have commonality with the -9s on order.


User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2050 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8327 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 1):
Isn't the 'Exceutive Economy' class seats and service on those SQ flights a lot like 'Business Class' seats and service on most other airlines?

Not really. The Exec Economy is similar to other Economy + products out there (save UA's, of course).

The service is obviously better than on most airlines (it is, after all, SQ). But you can really feel the difference in service between Economy and Raffles/Business Class.

Cheers
Coal



Nxt Flts: VA SYD-CBR-SYD | QF SYD-DFW | AA DFW-TLH-MIA-DFW | QF DFW-SYD
User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2889 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8301 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 2):
What I'm thinking is that, a few years down the road, SQ could go for a HGW/extended range version of the 787-8 (the same one QF is looking at for SYD-LHR) and that would allow it to retire the A345s; considerable saving there (i.e. one fleet type removed) and of course the 788ER would have commonality with the -9s on order.

Or go with the 359R which will have commonality with the 359 XWBs on order

Karan


User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8207 times:

If they go ahead and do this, what will happen to the flights that they do to keep them up to date on the type? All business class to CGK?

Maybe it is possible with CQM from A345 to A380 and back.

Drew



AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8173 times:

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 4):
Or go with the 359R which will have commonality with the 359 XWBs on order

And be just as big as the a345, which is the whole problem?

The reason for the 788 suggestion was that it would hold 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the J seating a 359 would, but have a lot of cargo space...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8041 times:

Could they just use the 772 at that point, since it could probably make it with all biz, or would that be too much plane for the market?
-A



What now?
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8018 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7838 times:

I wouldn't be surprised that SQ reconfigures their A340-500's to an all-Raffles class configuration seating no more than 120-125 passengers for the SIN to EWR/LAX non-stop flights. And they'll stay with the A345, since it doesn't have the ETOPS restrictions that may make it difficult to fly the 777-200ER in all-Raffles configuration for a non-stop flight.

User currently offlineAndrew From Singapore, joined Dec 1999, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7634 times:

My guess is that if they do change the config of the A345 to an all-J layout, it will be during the time that the first A333's arrive. The idea was for the A345 and A333 pilots to be cross-trained. That way the the A345's will not longer need to be dispatched to CGK to maintain pilot currency.

An all-J layout on the A345 to LAX and EWR would make sense, especially to EWR. From what I understand, J class to EWR is always full, even on weekdays. If there are any empty seats, they're usually in Executive Y.

As for the issue of ETOPS, the FAA is also going to implement ETOPS-like rules for 4 engine aircraft so we'll see how that pans out in the future.


User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2889 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7291 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
The reason for the 788 suggestion was that it would hold 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the J seating a 359 would, but have a lot of cargo space...

Do you mean more cargo than the 359 or the A345?? i am assuming the latter, which was a given considering what the 345 turned out to be to its competitors.

Karan


User currently offlineSQ452 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7246 times:

Ah hell no! I love taking these flight in Executive Economy. From what I remember, all times I have taken the route, Executive Economy is full. That would be a real shame if SQ decided to go all Business Class on the route.

You know I never understood why they didn't put First Class on these planes. Especially with the new First class product, they could probably do an all First Class/Business Class cabin for the flight.

That will be a real shame if it goes all business class. Those non-stop flights are such a time saver. and if they do go all business class on the flight I definitely think there will be overcapacity on it then. then it will be back to the days of 1-stop connections to the US Sad



SIN > CVG > BOS
User currently offlineJTR From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7238 times:

I wonder, how would an Economy+/Business/First plane do on the routes SQ is talking about? Anyone have any non-confidential numbers?

User currently offlineSparklehorse12 From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 908 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6976 times:

They do it SIN - BNE on a 772 - 2 class Economy and Business....seems to work for them.


Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
User currently offlineRafflesKing From Singapore, joined Mar 2007, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6961 times:

Directional obviously....but I've taken the LAX-SIN route a few times and never seen Executive Economy more than half full (2 mid-week flights, the rest were weekends). Raffles has always gone out full.

I've also down the NRT stopover with the 744 and also seem relatively empty regular economy sections but Raffles full also.

At least in my Company, the only reason you take Exec Economy is if you can't get Raffles on the non-stops or 4 1-stop options to SIN from the States. SQ does charge a premium over the regular economy.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6944 times:

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 11):
I never understood why they didn't put First Class on these planes.

SQ dropped plans for 202 seats in a three-cabin configuration because payload/range performance did not live up to Airbus's promises and opted for 181 seats in a two-cabin configuration.

I'm surprised no one has raised the question of what sort of business class seats SQ would install in their A340s if they reconfigure to all business class.


User currently offlineBjornstrom From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 329 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6930 times:

If SQ decides to remove the Y+ seats im pretty sure they'd go for a combination of the new J and F seats. There must be a market for F service on these ULR routes.


Eurobonus Gold | BMI Gold | http://my.flightmemory.com/bjornstrom/
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8383 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6928 times:

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 11):
You know I never understood why they didn't put First Class on these planes.

From what I heard, the F product is too heavy for the aircraft to be able to fly those routes non-stop. However, if they are planning on removing Executive Economy I wonder if a 2 class config with First and Business would now be possible.
If like people say, F is always full and economy is mostly half-empty, it seem like a no brainer to at least increase the number of Business class seats especially if you consider that most of the people flying Business Economy would have happily paid for a Business class seat if one was available.


User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3205 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6609 times:

Quoting Bjornstrom (Reply 16):
If SQ decides to remove the Y+ seats im pretty sure they'd go for a combination of the new J and F seats. There must be a market for F service on these ULR routes.

Please see responses before and after yours.



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineSQ452 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6570 times:

Quoting RafflesKing (Reply 14):
At least in my Company, the only reason you take Exec Economy is if you can't get Raffles on the non-stops or 4 1-stop options to SIN from the States. SQ does charge a premium over the regular economy.

Usually its around $200 SGD more than the one-stop options from Singapore on a return ticket which is totally worth it in my opinion.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):
I'm surprised no one has raised the question of what sort of business class seats SQ would install in their A340s if they reconfigure to all business class.

Good question. You would think that they would switch out the older spacebeds for the couches that they have for Raffles class seats on the 777-300ER Way more comfortable from what i hear.

Quoting Bjornstrom (Reply 16):
If SQ decides to remove the Y+ seats im pretty sure they'd go for a combination of the new J and F seats. There must be a market for F service on these ULR routes.

There definitely is, evidence of this is that they are deploying the 777-300ER aircraft on SFO, and LAX routes and the premium cabin has higher fares then the rest of the fleet. Part of the reason some of my family members never took the non-stop flights was because 'it didn't have first class' and they were authorized to take First on business. So therefore they went with the 1 stop options with the SkySuites (I know what your thinking, they are picky! and i wouldn't refute that cause they were when it came to this sort of thing, haha

Also consider this: the non-stop flights to the U.S. are NOT a money maker for SQ, its widely known on this forum that they lose quit a bit of money on the flight and they are not profitable.

[Edited 2007-08-05 15:59:37]


SIN > CVG > BOS
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6075 times:

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 19):
its widely known on this forum that they lose quit a bit of money on the flight and they are not profitable.

I wouldn't say "quite a bit"..but yes, it isn't a profitable venture for the nonstop flights......



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineFridgmus From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1442 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5690 times:
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Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 20):
Quoting SQ452 (Reply 19):
its widely known on this forum that they lose quit a bit of money on the flight and they are not profitable.


I wouldn't say "quite a bit"..but yes, it isn't a profitable venture for the nonstop flights......

If it isn't profitable, then why bother? Just wondering.

Thanks.

Marc



The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
User currently offlineRafflesKing From Singapore, joined Mar 2007, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5441 times:

Quoting Fridgmus (Reply 21):
If it isn't profitable, then why bother? Just wondering.

Brand loyalty, perhaps.

We'd move our business over to NW in a heartbeat if we had to stopover in NRT anyway. But we can't get Raffles class on the directs all the time, so we default to the 1-stop flights.


User currently offlineReadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3265 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5279 times:

SIA are a market leader in delivering customer service, having flown in both First and Business Class with them I feel that they understand their market place.
In London we are seeing the rise of the business only airlines like Eos & Silverjet to the USA, are SIA just looking at us and seeing a trend and a market opportunity?



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineSQ452 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5194 times:

Quoting Fridgmus (Reply 21):
If it isn't profitable, then why bother? Just wondering.

Thanks.

Marc

More of a status thing than anything and positioning in the market. Plus, they get to say they hold the record for "worlds longest scheduled non-stop flight". Many airlines operate, and continue to operate for many years, routes that are not profitable. It's one of those weird things in the airline industry

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 20):
I wouldn't say "quite a bit"..but yes, it isn't a profitable venture for the nonstop flights......

It's all how you define "quite a bit"  Wink



SIN > CVG > BOS
25 FlyDreamliner : And what would be the purpose there... besides having them buy an airbus? A359R is just as big as an A345 and what, like nearly a decade away from se
26 Dutchjet : Interesting thread. Not profitable, probably. Loose quite a bit of money, probably not. But, the important point is that SQ's experiment with ultra lo
27 Post contains images SQ452 : Indeed it will be. You have to consider the fact that the majority of people in Business Class are high powered executives/executives of major mnc's
28 Airbazar : That is a pile of bull and this forum is in no way a good source on what SQ routes are profitable or not. The fact is, SQ does not operate unprofitab
29 Dutchjet : SQ does not ""break out"" results for its ULH services so there is no way to know for sure; but consider the following: (1) SQ dropped its options on
30 Post contains images Jacobin777 : .......true... however I think Dutchjet explained it best...
31 BrianDromey : But by eliminating the Executive Y they could save enough weight to be able to offer 8F suites. Also bear in mind that in an A340 the new J is likely
32 Zvezda : SQ could operate 787-9s configured with 150 seats on the SIN-LAX/EWR routes. Doing so would bring in about 90% of the revenue of that the A340-500 bri
33 Airbazar : I still think they make more than enough on the routes, certainly a lot more than some people here want to believe. In your analysis you conveniently
34 Post contains images Ikramerica : I can see them doing 9F/84J with the new product if they saw the demand, or 100J otherwise, if they use the new product (which I would assume they'd
35 Zvezda : No, the reason why SQ haven't replaced the A340-500s with 777-200LRs is because the resale value of the former is so poor.
36 Zvezda : 2011 is four years away.
37 SQ452 : Like Dutchjet said, they are not going to put out a statement saying one of their routes is not profitable. Their actions and plans beforehand and al
38 Ikramerica : It is not likely SQ would put the 789 on these routes as their first route, since they will have no experience with the type. Just my opinion, but th
39 Airbazar : But some value is still better than operating a non-profitable route don't you think? Correct, they would just cancel the routes like they've done to
40 ConcordeBoy : What ETOPS restrictions would these be? ...particularly considering that their 772ERs have flown the LAX-SIN segment nonstop, in scheduled service, s
41 Post contains images Ag92 : Weight Issues SQ only upgrades if Economy class is oversold with spare seats in Business class. And if an upgrade does arise, it takes it from the Li
42 Zvezda : Only eastbound SIN-LAX. And usually stops if there are no PPS or full fare passengers who can be upgraded. At that point, SQ will generally offload Y
43 Post contains images Yellowtail : Is it remotely possible for any aircraft configured in a ULH to make it to S. America from SIN....maybe GRU / EZE ...there has got to be some business
44 Dutchjet : I dont believe that any airliner currently offered or proposed could do GRU or EZE to SIN nonstop with any type of economic payload......but Emirates
45 EI321 : Would that have the range of the A350-900R, inc cargo? Another a.net roumer treated as de facto.
46 Zvezda : From 2-2-2 at 64" pitch to 1-2-1 at 51" pitch is a 16.3% decrease in capacity per square meter. The calculus is more complex though because the new b
47 CO787EWR : Hmmm, I still think they should keep the Y+ seats maybe because I cant afford the Raffles class. I agree that after they get comfortable with the 787-
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