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CLE-CDG Up In The Air?  
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5598 posts, RR: 7
Posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4948 times:

There is a thread in another forum:

http://www.opshots.net/forum/index.php/topic,1421.0.html

that offers a CO email saying that CO has decided against initiating the previously-announced CLE-CDG route in 2008. This will be a huge disappointment to CLE parties; but the economy isn't what it was when CO announced the route almost a year ago. CO has never hesitated to back out of routes whose appeal waned.

They would have to force-feed flow traffic over CLE to make it work and they may not see enough traffic to support CLE as well as their EWR/IAH flights.


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6194 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4927 times:

Very disappointing if true.They even have it shown in their in-flight magazine.

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4908 times:

If it makes you feel any better I got the same email (more or less... I do remember the phrases "decided not to serve" and "continuously evaluating") when I emailed CO asking why I couldn't book a flight to LGB even though it's on their route map (yes, I know it's really served by DL from SLC, but I wanted to stay on CO metal as long as possible.

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7359 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4877 times:
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Seems CO is taking a second look at many of it's destinations served from CLE.  yes 

User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4681 times:

That sucks.

Well, considering that CLE and the city bend over a** first for CO (trying to keep CLE a hub for CO), I wonder what will happen?

Despite me being a Clevelander myself, it does seem as quite a disappointment for sure, especially with EWR being a delay haven, CLE-CDG would have been a nice alternative.

And yes...screw PIT   

[Edited 2007-08-06 01:42:04]

User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4629 times:

Is it possible that DL's likely launch of SLC-CDG which will siphon off some northern tier CDG flows and the AF-DL joint venture is making flights to CDG less appealing for other carriers?

User currently offlineFUN2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1089 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4553 times:

Quoting N231YE (Reply 4):
Despite me being a Clevelander myself, it does seem as quite a disappointment for sure, especially with EWR being a delay haven, CLE-CDG would have been a nice alternative.

Agreed. CDG direct and its connections would be a real plus for CLE. Just this year twice missed EWR connection and had to spend the night in NJ. With a 2 hour block for flight time and 1h/45m connections, hard to believe this happens so regularly. I think the flight would be a smash hit - get across the pond for sure, leave later in the day, not to mention take some pressure off of EWR.

Could this be retaliation for the AF/DL proposed relationship?


User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4480 times:

i was pushing for CLE-AMS, since AMS is a much nicer hub and easier to connect in - but I guess there's not much closeness between CO and KL.

If this is true, a real bummer, I bet they could pack it, even if DL did start SLC-CDG.

-A



What now?
User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4462 times:

Being an Ohioan, this is definitely very disappointing if they don't start this route. If they don't, maybe it's time to rethink investing as much money as the state wants to invest in CLE for CO. (Note: I didn't say stop funding, just cut down on as much funding) I don't think it's fair to scratch CO's back if they renig what they promise to do.

User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7767 posts, RR: 27
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4452 times:

I highly doubt that the DL SLC-CDG flight is the primary reason for CLE-CDG not happening. The two hubs service completely different spoke cities. SLC wasn't stealing much traffic from a potential CLE flight.

A couple of reasons for the change of mind:
1) Aircraft availability - the performance of the CLE-CDG flight is in competition for other routes, and CO is going to place aircraft where it makes the most financial sense. There are other markets that would be farther ahead both for profitability and also for competitive reasons. Its not like anyone else is gong to step in and start a CLE-CDG flight. By delaying it for a year or two means very little in the grand scheme of things.

2) CO's falling out with Skyteam:
Right now CO appears to be the odd man out in regards to their Skyteam relationship. NW-KLM have been long time bed buddies, and DL-AF have been too for a while. With the pending anti-trust amendment for NW, DL, KLM, AF one has to wonder where CO stands since they were not a part of the proposal. NW-CO have been codeshare partners for a long time, but there appears to be a growing rift between CO-AF. Also remember that now CO & DL are direct competitors in the NYC market.


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3133 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4452 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):
Is it possible that DL's likely launch of SLC-CDG which will siphon off some northern tier CDG flows and the AF-DL joint venture is making flights to CDG less appealing for other carriers?

No. CO's reach to the Western US is very limited from CLE, and the vast majority of those cities that are served from CLE already have nonstops to CDG of their own.


User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4422 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 10):
No. CO's reach to the Western US is very limited from CLE, and the vast majority of those cities that are served from CLE already have nonstops to CDG of their own

Indeed Seattle, San Francisco, and Los Angeles have nonstop service to CDG via Air France..

The only other Western markets for Continental Airlines from Cleveland are Las Vegas, Denver, San Diego, and Phoenix. Of which Las Vegas has nonstop service on Virgin Atlantic, British Midland, Condor, BelAir, MyTravel,and MaxJet to Europe. Denver has nonstop service on British Airways and Lufthansa to Europe. Phoenix has British Airways to London. The only one left out is San Diego, however as can be seen even San Diego may be going Europe via Lufthansa in the next few years.

-JD


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4394 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 9):
2) CO's falling out with Skyteam:
Right now CO appears to be the odd man out in regards to their Skyteam relationship. NW-KLM have been long time bed buddies, and DL-AF have been too for a while. With the pending anti-trust amendment for NW, DL, KLM, AF one has to wonder where CO stands since they were not a part of the proposal. NW-CO have been codeshare partners for a long time, but there appears to be a growing rift between CO-AF. Also remember that now CO & DL are direct competitors in the NYC market

I concur, I can see CO making a move to Star. That does not necessarily need a CO/UAL merger to facilitate the move, however Star brings more to CO than Sky Team, and CO brings more to Star than US. Star has more flights out of EWR than JFK, connecting those flights to CO's EWR hub adds revenue to both parties.

All speculation of course.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 2723 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4367 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):
Is it possible that DL's likely launch of SLC-CDG which will siphon off some northern tier CDG flows and the AF-DL joint venture is making flights to CDG less appealing for other carriers?

Dream on! Maybe DL should rethink their ATL-PEK application due to CO's EWR-PEK service.

If traffic can't support daily CLE-CDG, CO should split the aircraft utilization to 4 per week CLE-CDG and CLE-AMS. The eighth frequency could be allowed with X6 flights in other markets. The result would be something like eastbound
CLE-CDG days 1356 and CLE-AMS days 2467. Serving 3 transatlantic markets would be noticed more than one or two markets. There would be little cost of adding a 752 at CDG and AMS as they already have several operations to EWR and IAH.

CO should consider using the same philosophy in the off season on CLE-LGW. If all three markets (LGW, CDG,AMS) operated 3 days per week, it could be done with little more than one aircraft, utilizing Sat and Sun noops to provide the 8th and 9th weekly frequency. Something like CLE-AMS on 146, CLE-LGW on 257 and CLE-CDG on 367, with the most weekend peak market having the 367 operation.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4354 times:

Anyway to post a snippit of the link in the thread-starter? Not a member. Thanks.

User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4346 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 9):
2) CO's falling out with Skyteam:
Right now CO appears to be the odd man out in regards to their Skyteam relationship. NW-KLM have been long time bed buddies, and DL-AF have been too for a while. With the pending anti-trust amendment for NW, DL, KLM, AF one has to wonder where CO stands since they were not a part of the proposal. NW-CO have been codeshare partners for a long time, but there appears to be a growing rift between CO-AF. Also remember that now CO & DL are direct competitors in the NYC market.

Not sure what that has to do with CLE.

Quoting MasseyBrown (Thread starter):
They would have to force-feed flow traffic over CLE to make it work and they may not see enough traffic to support CLE as well as their EWR/IAH flights.

I always thought the best way for CO to expand CLE beyond reliever status, was by adding some Canadian destinations. Perhaps not as exciting as transatlantic routes, but maybe a bit more doable.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5598 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4318 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
Anyway to post a snippit of the link in the thread-starter? Not a member. Thanks.

The poster received the following email in response to his query about booking a CLE-CDG trip next year.

Dear Sir

Thank you for contacting Continental Airlines.

We have decided not to operate the nonstop flight to Paris next year.

Continental is constantly monitoring our routes and schedules to provide the best service for our passengers. Your comments will be shared with the appropriate departments and our Senior Management.

We appreciate you taking the time to let us know how we can better serve you.

Regards,


Darryl Johnson
Continental Airlines


I'm surprised you aren't a member of that board, Falcon. You probably know some of the people on it.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4294 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 16):
I'm surprised you aren't a member of that board, Falcon.

I just joined.  Big grin

I haven't heard a peep about it at work, and as Rampkontroller, whom I do know, said on Opshots, it's a bit surprising.

However, CLE-LGW is already in the computer for next spring. CLE-CDG is not. May not mean anything, but maybe it does.

I'm putting my own feelers out, too, right now, limited though they are.


User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4290 times:

Wow, this is the first I've heard of this. It sure seems like Continental is moving forward with the CLE expansion, I havent heard anything about not running CDG next year.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineRampkontroler From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 859 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4268 times:

Hi Guys- Yes, it would be a blow indeed to lose this service. As of yet, I haven't been able to get any more information, and I am off the next two days, so Falcon may find out something before I do.

I just wish we could get something exciting going here...and being a reliever for EWR is one of them. If I am ever traveling through EWR, I always make sure to get there the day BEFORE my connecting flight. Every day without fail, we get hit with ATC ground stops and flow programs to the east coast and hardly anything leaves when its supposed to. I would never plan a connecting flight through EWR on the same day that I am trying to get there!


User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7767 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4123 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 15):
Not sure what that has to do with CLE.

It has a lot to do, as a CLE-CDG flight would require a significant amount of connecting traffic on both ends - CO in CLE and AF in CDG. Considering that many of these destinations can be served entirely on CO metal via a connection in EWR, does it make sense to route double connections over CLE - no.


User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4092 times:

I think this flight will do very well, alot of people hate going to New York (EWR or JFK) due to ATC delays everyday. At least in CLE you dont have to wait 2hrs just to get off the ground.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6729 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4084 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 9):
1) Aircraft availability - the performance of the CLE-CDG flight is in competition for other routes, and CO is going to place aircraft where it makes the most financial sense. There are other markets that would be farther ahead both for profitability and also for competitive reasons. Its not like anyone else is gong to step in and start a CLE-CDG flight. By delaying it for a year or two means very little in the grand scheme of things.

Bingo!

I think CO is realizing that the plane that will fly CLE-CDG could simply be used more effectively on a different route. CLE-CDG might do fine, but there are plent of opportunities from EWR that will probably do even better. It's been said before and I'll say it again, given a limited number of aircraft, airlines have to optimize their utilization.


User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4060 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):
I think CO is realizing that the plane that will fly CLE-CDG could simply be used more effectively on a different route. CLE-CDG might do fine, but there are plent of opportunities from EWR that will probably do even better. It's been said before and I'll say it again, given a limited number of aircraft, airlines have to optimize their utilization.

What ever happened to the:

EWR-CMN, EWR-AGP, and EWR-SVQ rumors?

-JD


User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8366 posts, RR: 23
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3919 times:

Thanks, CAL. Continued commitment to CLE duly noted. (Puh!)


This Website Censors Me
25 UN_B732 : So much for a huge committment to Cleveland. TOo bad, I remember how much fanfare there was about this route when it was first announced. -A
26 Post contains links Lincoln : Do we have an actual confirmation that the route has been nixed from anyone other than the email referenced in the original post? Given that those wh
27 Falcon84 : Keep your shorts on dudes! It's not even confirmed!
28 N766UA : I know, but it'd just be so typical. CLE gets shafted constantly. I still hope it's not true and it goes ahead, naturally.
29 Post contains images Lincoln : Update... as I said... I just got a response from Continental, the response in its entirety (excluding the person's name): I hope that will settle eve
30 PSU.DTW.SCE : As with anything in this business, wait until you see the first flight at the gate in CLE departing for CDG. With now two conflicting pieces of inform
31 Dutchjet : Good point. Good news, I never heard anything to suggest that CLE-CDG is not going forward. CO did apply for Malaga and Palma......much to the surpri
32 CALMSP : i would love to see us operate EWR-CMN............seems like a typical destination for us, small, unheard of in terms of trans-atlantic service. Does
33 N231YE : Is that a good thing or is that a bad thing?
34 MAH4546 : RAM is 9x weekly to JFK and 10x weekly to YUL.
35 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : Youve got to be kidding right? The sun doesnt rise and set with DL. Thats like saying DL shouldnt fly to PVG because UA and AA already fly there and
36 Post contains images Falcon84 : Yudaman Lincoln!
37 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : SLC will serve an O&D and connections in an entirely different part of the country. The last I checked CLE is in the Eastern Time Zone, and SLC in th
38 Post contains images Rampkontroler : Thanks Lincoln! That sounds more like it!
39 Ncflyer : The State of Ohio is packaging a nice incentive package for CO to expand, they've been slowly bundling some features together, tax breaks, constructio
40 CALMSP : I wouldn't take this guy's word for anything. Not to slam him or anything, but being a res agent, I think there are more knowlegeable personnel in th
41 Post contains images MasseyBrown : Sorry for the false alarm. I've been in Washington too long. Actually, I was getting to like PSU.DTW.SCE's Skyteam conspiracy theory.
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