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Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32571 posts, RR: 72
Posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5810 times:

Vietnam Airlines has applied with US DOT to begin five weekly flights between Ho Chi Minh City and Los Angeles, via Osaka, effective 28 October 2008. The flights would operate with 777-200ER aircraft:

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf102/481050_web.pdf

In the application, Vietnam Airways also applies for authority to serve Dallas, New York City, San Francisco, and Seattle, and for local traffic routes between the US and Canada, Japan, and Taiwan.

JAL ended Los Angeles-Osaka last fall, which actually means that Vietnam Airlines would be the only airline in this market.


a.
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3458 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5782 times:

Do Vietnam and the US have an Open Skies agreement?

I have to imagine that this will be a successful route for VN. Southern California has a huge Vietnamese population, and there are large business ties between the two areas.

I also thought UA was re-routing its flight to SGN as an LAX-HKG-SGN from its current SFO-HKG-SGN routing. Is that accurate?


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24710 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5764 times:

 bigthumbsup  Good deal. Long time in the making.

Last I heard VN was considering operating via TPE, however probably cleverly settled on KIX instead. I'm sure they will offer cheap fill up fares to Japan via various consolidators.

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 1):
I also thought UA was re-routing its flight to SGN as an LAX-HKG-SGN from its current SFO-HKG-SGN routing. Is that accurate?

Yes the SGN tags reverts to the resumed LAX-HKG flight flight this fall.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12396 posts, RR: 37
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5716 times:

I always thought SFO would be its first choice, but I guess LA has a very strong Vietnamese population too.

When did TG stop its KIX-LAX service; with the A340-500s (reportedly) being sold, isn't it possible that TG could come back on this route and cause some competition for VN?


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7478 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5664 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
Good deal. Long time in the making.

Hell yeah!!! Perfect!!! This has been along time coming and Im glad to see that VN is killing two birds with one stone!

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 3):
I always thought SFO would be its first choice, but I guess LA has a very strong Vietnamese population too.

The are more Vietnamese in Southern California than in the Norcal. San Jose has the largest Vietnamese population of any american city, but if you add up the regions SoCal has more.

LAX tends to be the Asian carriers favorite airport in the US, so LAX over SFO was never a wonder to me.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineMastaHanky From United States of America, joined May 2006, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5630 times:

Is this a route that could be run nonstop when VN get their 787s? Or is there not sufficient demand? I don't know much about the Vietnamese aviation scene...

User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1825 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5574 times:

So VN finally changed their mind again. In may, they announced they were postponing US flights, although now they're flying through KIX and not non-stop to LAX

VN Delays Start Of Flights To The USA (by Goldorak May 19 2007 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3458 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5543 times:

Quoting Goldorak (Reply 6):
now they're flying through KIX and not non-stop to LAX

How would they have flown non-stop to LAX? Maybe when they get the 787, but they have no aircraft capable of SGN-LAX nonstop right now.


User currently offlineBoeing737WG From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5533 times:

Awesome news! Hopefully the DOT will hurry up the process and we can take pixs of a beautiful livery in a wonderful airport!  camera 


Yay, I won baid-aids! :)
User currently offlineAirlineAddict From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5523 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
In the application, Vietnam Airways also applies for authority to serve Dallas

Interesting that they chose Dallas over Houston. Houston has a large Vietnamese population. I wonder if they will partner with AA?


User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1825 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5523 times:

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 7):
How would they have flown non-stop to LAX? Maybe when they get the 787, but they have no aircraft capable of SGN-LAX nonstop right now.

See the link on my post (reply 6). This has been discussed. I'm not a specilist of that but it seems it could be done with their 772 with weight restriction or making it non-stop from HAN (routing SGN-HAN-LAX)


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7478 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5514 times:

Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 9):
Interesting that they chose Dallas over Houston. Houston has a large Vietnamese population. I wonder if they will partner with AA?

They do codeshare with AA. That probably answers that question.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32571 posts, RR: 72
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5496 times:

Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 9):
Interesting that they chose Dallas over Houston. Houston has a large Vietnamese population. I wonder if they will partner with AA?

They already do. Vietnam Airways codeshares on AA flights from Tokyo to Chicago, Dallas, and New York City; and from Paris to Chicago, Dallas, Miami, and New York City, as well as on domestic AA routes.



a.
User currently offlineAirlineAddict From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5416 times:
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Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 11):

They do codeshare with AA. That probably answers that question.

Thanks for the info. I was not aware that AA and VN were codesharing. Makes sense though since UA is offering flights to SGN.

Just noticed that the KIX - LAX flights will be at 2:00 AM arriving around 8 PM local time. The return flight to KIX departs at 11:05 PM and arrives at roughly 3:30 AM. These are not the best times for getting local traffic, but if you're the only game in town it may work.

[Edited 2007-08-07 00:23:01]

User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3917 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5363 times:

I am a little surprised that IAH was not in the list of US cities applied for by VN and even more surprised to see DFW listed as a possible future US gateway for VN. Did the Vietnamese population in the DFW metroplex recently surpass that of Houston over the past couple of years?

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32571 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5345 times:

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 14):
I am a little surprised that IAH was not in the list of US cities applied for by VN and even more surprised to see DFW listed as a possible future US gateway for VN. Did the Vietnamese population in the DFW metroplex recently surpass that of Houston over the past couple of years?

It has to do with the fact that Vietnam Airlines US partner is American Airlines.

Also, people are reading too much into the other destinations they asked for authority for. The reality is that Vietnam Airlines will most likely stick with LAX for a very long time, and likely add just SFO. It is common for airlines to apply for wide authority, so that changes in market conditions will allow them to start routes quickly.



a.
User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5143 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5329 times:

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 14):
Did the Vietnamese population in the DFW metroplex recently surpass that of Houston over the past couple of years?

That AA codeshare is the sole reason. Smart move...its just a tuff pill for us IAHers to swallow. LOL.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7478 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5319 times:

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 14):
I am a little surprised that IAH was not in the list of US cities applied for by VN and even more surprised to see DFW listed as a possible future US gateway for VN. Did the Vietnamese population in the DFW metroplex recently surpass that of Houston over the past couple of years?

Its just the Codesharing alone. If it were based on O&D alone, IAH would win hands down.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5281 times:

Interestingly, both TPE and KIX are in almost a direct line between SGN and LAX. Both are logical choices.

It is hard to believe that two cities such as Los Angeles and Osaka have no non-stop link between them. What are JL, NH, UA, and NW doing for pax that want to fly KIX-LAX - routing them through NRT?

I am looking forward to the day when the beautiful green VN 777 flies over In & Out Burger:


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User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3917 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5204 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 17):
Its just the Codesharing alone. If it were based on O&D alone, IAH would win hands down.



Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 16):
That AA codeshare is the sole reason. Smart move...its just a tuff pill for us IAHers to swallow. LOL.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
It has to do with the fact that Vietnam Airlines US partner is American Airlines.

I seem to have forgotten that VN hooked up with the Eagle.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
Also, people are reading too much into the other destinations they asked for authority for. The reality is that Vietnam Airlines will most likely stick with LAX for a very long time, and likely add just SFO. It is common for airlines to apply for wide authority, so that changes in market conditions will allow them to start routes quickly.

I completely concur

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5195 times:

Finally, the beautiful livery of Vietnam in the States. Someone (from the Bay) said SFO was going to get them before LAX. I just didn't see that happening, Vietnam has had LAX on their sights for a while.

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5167 times:

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 7):
but they have no aircraft capable of SGN-LAX nonstop right now.

...they (allegedly) secured their GE90-powered birds with the intention of SGN-HAN-SFO nonstop


User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1788 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5167 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 18):
It is hard to believe that two cities such as Los Angeles and Osaka have no non-stop link between them. What are JL, NH, UA, and NW doing for pax that want to fly KIX-LAX - routing them through NRT?

I can't speak for the others, but JL is doing that. They started a second daily domestic flight when they stopped KIX-LAX. It is supposed to be timed for North American connections (YVR, SFO, LAX) are all departing in the evening. Also, the new JFK service that leaves at 9 pm is also transferrable although it would be a long wait.



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5117 times:

First of all this is good for VN and KIX. KIX has lost a lot of North American traffic and the best way to really get it is with 5th freedoms.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 18):
What are JL, NH, UA, and NW doing for pax that want to fly KIX-LAX - routing them through NRT?

NW and UA can route pax through HNL. UA can also route them via NRT with NH. JL also routes through NRT or can do so via HNL using their JO subsidiary (AA codeshare) and then putpax on AA flights to LAX. JL's CEO in an interview last year stated that JL will rebuild its LAX hub with the arrival of the 787-8s. This would include NGO-LAX and KIX-LAX.

Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 13):
Just noticed that the KIX - LAX flights will be at 2:00 AM arriving around 8 PM local time. The return flight to KIX departs at 11:05 PM and arrives at roughly 3:30 AM. These are not the best times for getting local traffic, but if you're the only game in town it may work.

YIKES!!!! horrible times and they don't line up with the current schedule very well. Westbound seems okay but eastbound seems illogical. The plane sits at KIX for 10 hours.

VN's current KIX-SGN is (Daily) w/777:
VN940 DEP SGN 23:50 ARR KIX 6:45+1
VN941 DEP KIX 11:00 ARR SGN 14:35

KIX-HAN (3 weekly) w/ 767:
VN948 DEP HAN 23:40 ARR KIX 5:45+1
VN949 DEP KIX 18:50 ARR HAN 22:25

Seems to me that they have to redesign their KIX departure/arrival schedules so that flights can be profitable. That means leaving the US westcoast in the later morning and arriving at KIX in the afternoon/evening. Then departing for SGN or HAN in the evening arriving early in the morning. Then the eastbound leaves in the morning and arrives in KIX in the early afternoon. Then the LAX bound departs in the late afternoon arriving at LAX in the early morning. This is how UA, NW and a few other airlines that use 5th freedom through Japan seem to operate.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineAirlineAddict From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4998 times:
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Quoting Centrair (Reply 23):
YIKES!!!! horrible times and they don't line up with the current schedule very well. Westbound seems okay but eastbound seems illogical. The plane sits at KIX for 10 hours.

VN's current KIX-SGN is (Daily) w/777:
VN940 DEP SGN 23:50 ARR KIX 6:45+1
VN941 DEP KIX 11:00 ARR SGN 14:35

Here is the proposed Winter schedule based on the filing:

SGN - KIX : DEP 17:30 ARR 00:40
KIX - LAX: DEP 02:00 ARR 20:04
LAX - KIX: DEP 23:05 ARR 03:30
KIX - SGN: DEP 04:50 ARR 08:10

The Summer schedule varies just slightly.

The proposed departure and arrival schedule to/from SGN seems to fit a routing via TPE a little better. Using the same departure times, and scheduled flight time on BR, you get the following schedule:

SGN - TPE : DEP 17:30 ARR 21:45
TPE - LAX: DEP 23:05 ARR 18:30
LAX - TPE: DEP 21:30 ARR 04:15
TPE - SGN: DEP 05:35 ARR 08:05

Admittedly, the LAX - TPE and TPE - SGN segments are a little early, but much better than the KIX schedule.


25 Carpethead : Actually, demand has just disappeared over the years. For example, Japanese tourist visiting SoCal has dropped to about a quarter to that prior to 9-
26 Laxintl : Down 12.2% since 2002. Interestingly only one of two major nationalities which experienced declines in foreign visitors to LA which actualy enjoyed 1
27 ElmoTheHobo : American codeshare. This is a one sided codeshare, as American does not place its code on VN flights, nor can AAdvantage members earn miles on VN fli
28 Kaitak : What an awful schedule, particularly from a KIX point of view; while the KIX-LAX/vv sector takes its time to spool up and make some money, they're go
29 Centrair : Do they really want to make money on this route? I am guessing they think they can get good O&D out of LAX/USA and that the KIX stop becomes a tech s
30 AS739X : Agreed. I thought Houston would have been in the top 3 or 4. That is an aweful schedule if they go with it, IMHO. The plane is in JP in the middle of
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