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Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR  
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2754 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2926 times:

Did a search and didn't find anything, so forgive me if this was already discussed. It might have been lost in the buzz over Jeff Potter's career changes. We knew ABQ-PVR was on the way, but now the schedule is out. Looks like 3x per week on E170s. Service on Wednesday, Saturday, and Sunday. Here is a link to the press release.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070803/laf045.html?.v=84

What do you think the chances of success are with this schedule?


It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQXatFAT From Israel, joined Feb 2006, 2404 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2882 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Thread starter):
What do you think the chances of success are with this schedule?

Im sorry but I dont see success at all. Why ABQ-PVR? Who came up with that market? Is there really that many people from New Mexico going to PVR that often? Bring the route to the Central Valley I say. You will make more money here.



Don't Tread On Me!
User currently offlineABQ747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 848 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2872 times:

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 1):
Im sorry but I dont see success at all. Why ABQ-PVR? Who came up with that market? Is there really that many people from New Mexico going to PVR that often?

According to the city of Albuquerque's website, PVR is one of the top Mexican destination markets from ABQ.

Top 6 Mexican Destinations from ABQ
�� Mexico City
�� Cancun
�� Puerto Vallarta
�� Guadalajara
�� Cabo San Lucas
�� Chihuahua

I bet this new route will do well. ABQ is a rapidly growing market, and I wouldn't be surprised if other international destinations are added.



The reason New Mexico is so windy is because Texas sucks and Arizona blows.
User currently offlineQXatFAT From Israel, joined Feb 2006, 2404 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2860 times:

Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 2):
According to the city of Albuquerque's website, PVR is one of the top Mexican destination markets from ABQ.

Well it is on the top list but how many people travel that route? Enough to fill 3 E170s a week?



Don't Tread On Me!
User currently offlineABQ747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 848 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2856 times:

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 3):
Well it is on the top list but how many people travel that route? Enough to fill 3 E170s a week?

They don't say how many people travel between ABQ and those destinations. The city of Albuquerque will guarantee profitability for these flights. If Frontier loses money on these flights, the city will make up the difference. So F9 basically has nothing to lose.



The reason New Mexico is so windy is because Texas sucks and Arizona blows.
User currently offlineQXatFAT From Israel, joined Feb 2006, 2404 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2849 times:

Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 4):
They don't say how many people travel between ABQ and those destinations. The city of Albuquerque will guarantee profitability for these flights. If Frontier loses money on these flights, the city will make up the difference. So F9 basically has nothing to lose.

Yeah we saw a similar situation here at FAT with F9. Now we know how good their word is  Yeah sure Sorry I dont mean to bash them but just the idea of "nothing to lose" and "F9" doesnt go together for me.



Don't Tread On Me!
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25083 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2835 times:
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Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 2):
I bet this new route will do well.

Given that it is ABQ's only non-stop to anywhere in Mexico, I think you may be right.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 5):
Sorry I dont mean to bash them

You're doing quite a job of it.

mariner

[Edited 2007-08-07 12:18:23]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDLOnur From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

This will be a fun non-rev route indeed!

Gotta love station agreements.

 Wink



What you believe is what you see.
User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2793 times:

It seems like Frontier is following the Allegiant business model in regards to their Mexico service. I wish them well.

User currently offlineCandid76 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 733 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2752 times:

How busy is ABQ? I'm planning to fly through there twice en route to Roswell (with Frontier as well!) and am hoping to get three hours or so airside in each direction to do some spotting. Any info welcome!

User currently offlineIAHFLYER From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2752 times:

Does ABQ even have FIS facilities? I have been to ABQ before and can't remember a single sign.


Little airports with the big jets are the best!! Floyd
User currently offlineKingCavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1303 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2715 times:

These will be through flights from DEN so there should be enough traffic with the connecting feed.


Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4049 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2700 times:

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 8):
It seems like Frontier is following the Allegiant business model in regards to their Mexico service. I wish them well.

Given outgoing CEO Jeff Potter's business attachments, I think F9 has found a niche business in the U.S. as the charter companies and tour operators have up in Canada. I think F9 is staking it's LCC claim on Mexico in advance before WN starts and stays ahead of B6 and other possible entrants. This USAToday article I think sums this up quite well: http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...s/2007-08-07-frontier-mexico_N.htm



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineAirMike2 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 33 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2688 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 6):
Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 5):
Sorry I dont mean to bash them

You're doing quite a job of it.

Hi QXatFAT: you're not allowed to voice your opinion on F9 on this website. Mariner forbids it.


User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2671 times:

Quoting Candid76 (Reply 9):
How busy is ABQ? I'm planning to fly through there twice en route to Roswell (with Frontier as well!) and am hoping to get three hours or so airside in each direction to do some spotting. Any info welcome!

It's a pretty slow airport. If you get the timing right, there's some interesting military traffic, but the civilian side is pretty blah.

At ABQ I've seen:

- USAF CV-22 Osprey
- USAF F-16
- USMC F/A-18
- Luftwaffe Tornado
- USN P-3 Orion
- NM ANG C-130

I think my favorite were the Ospreys! Some seriously cool-ass birds!

Anyway, 3 hours will be a long time at ABQ. My best recommendation: there's a top-notch cantina just on the other side of security (unsecure part of the terminal). They have some amazing local green chile dishes that will light you up. That with some cervezas and tequila makes for a great afternoon at ABQ!  yummy 

Check this map for the location of "Gardunos Chile Packing Co. and Cantina" (2); it is without a doubt the best food at ABQ.

http://www.cabq.gov/airport/pdf/webmap_level3.pdf


User currently offlineStapleton From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 280 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2665 times:

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 1):
Why ABQ-PVR?

Many reasons.

1. No direct competition
2. This route did very well for the original Frontier over 20 years ago.
3. Strong Mexican ties in New Mexico
4. Revenue guarantees

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 1):
Bring the route to the Central Valley I say.

Why would they do that? Don't you want Mexicana to succeed? Neither ABQ of FAT should want their market diluted so much that nobody can succeed. I can understand you are disappointed F9 left FAT but all too often we have to be careful of what we ask for.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2622 times:

Quoting Stapleton (Reply 15):
2. This route did very well for the original Frontier over 20 years ago.

I thought that I was the only one that remembered that Frontier One flew from ABQ to PVR and some other Mexican cities......didnt Frontier One also have nonstop service from ELP to Mexican destinations as well?

I think that this will work.....niche market being served with a smaller airplane on a limited basis, sounds like a winner to me. PVR via the F9 flight will certainly be the most convenient beach holiday destination for the residents of ABQ.....lets give F9 credit for thinking ""outside of the box"" and developing new routes.


User currently offlineDLOnur From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2619 times:

Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 14):

I respectfully disagree...

Depending on what time of day you come to ABQ you will see lots of commercial metal from the observation deck (center of the terminal after security, upstairs)....grab a lunch and check things out:

DL 757's
DL737-800
DLMD88's
US 319's
US737's
CO 737's
UA737's
UA319's
AA MD88's
WN 737's
F9 719's
FX727's
UPS757
UPSA300
UPS767

Seems that mid-to-late afternoon is the best time for different A/C types....

-o-



What you believe is what you see.
User currently offlineStapleton From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 280 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2610 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 16):
didnt Frontier One also have nonstop service from ELP to Mexican destinations as well?

Yes, the old Frontier did that as well. The original flights went DEN-ABQ-ELP-MZT-GDL-ELP-ABQ-DEN. Later they split some of the flights between ABQ and ELP and added PVR and ZIH. The PVR seemed to be very successful. It is interesting to see how similar the F9 route map is looking to the old FL route map (For those that don't remember, FL used to be the code for the original Frontier before they ceased service and AirTran ended up with it).


User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2597 times:

Quoting DLOnur (Reply 17):
I respectfully disagree...

That list just doesn't light me up, it seems pretty standard to me. I guess I was just spoiled growing up in SEA..

Either way, ABQ is a great little airport. The only thing I dislike is the security hall.. it just gives me bad juju for some reason. Maybe because it's so rigid/confined.. I dunno. I just don't like clearing security in ABQ for some weird reason...


User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2558 times:

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 3):
Well it is on the top list but how many people travel that route? Enough to fill 3 E170s a week?

Yes, easily. Daily, probably not. I think they flight will do well, but F9 has to do some propaganda. They have to get the word out.


User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2455 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2488 times:
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Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 19):
Either way, ABQ is a great little airport. The only thing I dislike is the security hall.. it just gives me bad juju for some reason. Maybe because it's so rigid/confined.. I dunno. I just don't like clearing security in ABQ for some weird reason...

It has been about 8 months since I have been thru there, and they were widening the walkway post security to the gates. Wonder if it is done yet. I assume that their security area was to be expanded as well. True?



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2754 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2453 times:

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 1):
Is there really that many people from New Mexico going to PVR that often?

A few years ago it was estimated to be somewhere between 40-70 per day. I think F9 is also hoping to stimulate demand with the non-stop. With some advertising and decent vacation packages I'm optimistic about it's chances.

Quoting IAHFLYER (Reply 10):
Does ABQ even have FIS facilities? I have been to ABQ before and can't remember a single sign.

Yes they do, but it isn't near the gates. It is located to the west of the ticket counters near the location of the old C concourse. Renovated just a few years ago. Typically international charters have parked in the area between the ticket counters and the A concourse while unloading, then are towed to a gate to load for departure. I would guess that F9 will do the same. If international traffic grows, ABQ has the ability to build an FIS under either the A or B concourse.

Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 14):
At ABQ I've seen:

- USAF CV-22 Osprey
- USAF F-16
- USMC F/A-18
- Luftwaffe Tornado
- USN P-3 Orion
- NM ANG C-130

There are also Blackhawk helicopters stationed on the base. A-10s seem to be fairly common visitors, and sometimes the F-117s from Holoman AFB will stop in to do touch and goes at ABQ.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25083 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2442 times:
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PVR is going to be busy for Frontier - new service form SJC and SMF as well:

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...s/2007-08-07-frontier-mexico_N.htm

ABQ airport has also said they are negotiating for service to GDL and CUU.

Quoting AirMike2 (Reply 13):
Mariner forbids it.

Hi, AirMike2 - how's your day? I'm just not sure how I can I "forbid" anything.

As a heads up, your signature - which used to read "Mariner = Pretentious" - now reads "Mariner = P".

I wonder if you are aware that in some countries, New Zealand, for example, "P" is the euphemism for methamphetamine?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2754 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 23):
ABQ airport has also said they are negotiating for service to GDL and CUU.

GDL on the E170 and CUU on the Q400 would be interesting additions. Both would be welcome, but I'm hoping for AM or MX to open ABQ-MEX. That route has the highest number of passengers between ABQ and Mexico, and the connecting options in MEX on either airline make me think it could work well.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
25 AirMike2 : Thanks for that info! That "P" could mean many things. Use your imagination.
26 Post contains images Mariner : Oh, I can think of lots of things, and I would regard most of them - all of them, even - as either factual or a compliment. I am simply concerned tha
27 ABQ747 : The new security hall is a lot bigger and better than the old one. I've seen much more confined security checkpoints at larger hub airports. I don't
28 Mariner : Mostly, I agree. The case of CUU might be a bit different, though. It is a fairly big "point of contact", and it is only just over 400 miles from ABQ
29 Alias1024 : Lynx would be greatl, but perhaps AeroLitoral on the Saab 340 is the best fit for ABQ-CUU. Right size airplane, and the ability to feed traffic throu
30 ABQ747 : An ERJ would be a better fit. CUU-ABQ would be an uncomfortably long flight for a little SAAB 340.
31 F9Animal : I think the route may surprise the nayers. Especially since the flight originates in DEN, as it can pick up additional traffic. What good would it do
32 Alias1024 : FAT's terminal is about 1/3rd the size of ABQ, and handles about 1/6th the passengers. Seems like ABQ is a better bet.
33 Candid76 : Thanks for your replies to my question guys. I don't do military, but for a UK spotter (even one with a number of decent US trips behind him!) the lis
34 IAHFLYER : Thanks for the info, I've walked around there for a while and never saw a sign of it. One interesting sight is the 747 parked on the other side of th
35 727Tiger : I once was awaiting a late-evening flight to MCI when I got to see 2 F-16s take off together on full afterburners. What a great sight from the gate a
36 LambertMan : I'm not trying to be a cheerleader, but I can't figure out for the life of me why they haven't added PVR-STL. American flies it all of about 20 times
37 Frontierflyer : A stop at ELP would be great. Flew ELP-ABQ all the time on F9.
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