SimonOF From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 13 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2319 times:
EI are pulling out of the LHR/SNN route in favour of a new LHR/BFS route. Apparently EI need the slots as they can't get new ones and SNN was the casualty. The preference was to take 1 slot from DUB, ORK and SNN to create them but is appears EI changed their mind.
Bummer for the West of Ireland. Doesn't really show a lot of commitment to their home country !
Kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8308 posts, RR: 17 Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2257 times:
Quoting SimonOF (Thread starter): Doesn't really show a lot of commitment to their home country
their commitment should be to making a profit for their shareholders , if they can do that better by serving BFS instead of SNN then the decision is a sensible one
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 16475 posts, RR: 62 Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2233 times:
Where are the customers, at BFS or SNN? Have SNN fliers bypassed EI in favor of flying direct elsewhere on FR? Airlines don't usually go out of their way to piss off a profitable base of flyers.
EISHN From Ireland, joined Feb 2007, 1502 posts, RR: 9 Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2193 times:
The SNN-LHR route was very profitable, and had a load factor of 80%.
Ei are leasing a number of their LHR slots to other airlines, valuable slots that could be used for flights to BFS.
Instead, EI have flipped off Shannon, and set up camp in BFS resulting in the loss of 45-50 jobs at SNN, and threatning economic stability in the West.
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3): Have SNN fliers bypassed EI in favor of flying direct elsewhere on FR?
Quite the opposite. FR fly to STN and LGW, but only EI fly to LHR from SNN. EI had no competition on the route, but decided to pull it anyway.
In Belfast you have BD flying 8 times a day from BHD-LHR, plus U2 flying from BFS-LTN.
It's a decision which makes very little sense, but everyone is saying that it's a sound one because Belfast really needs the route.
SNN will now be losing out on about 350,000 passengers a year because of the route.
The EI CEO Dermot Mannion has made a nuber of bad choices since he has taken his job with EI. I, and many other EI passengers have put up with it, but this really does it.
Expect hell from the West if the route is not reastablished, and a number of job losses. Not just the 45 EI ones.
St. Flannan/ Fhlanain- She took off to find the footlights, And I took off for the sky
SimonOF From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 13 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2070 times:
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 1): their commitment should be to making a profit for their shareholders , if they can do that better by serving BFS instead of SNN then the decision is a sensible one
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 23084 posts, RR: 60 Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2040 times:
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 1): their commitment should be to making a profit for their shareholders , if they can do that better by serving BFS instead of SNN then the decision is a sensible one
Quoting SimonOF (Reply 6): They are Aer Lingus - not Air Belfast !
They should go where ever the money is and Belfast is still an Irish destination on the Island of Ireland . I do feel sorry for SNN but for me personally its great news. I live only 1 hour from BFS .
Kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8308 posts, RR: 17 Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2009 times:
Quoting SimonOF (Reply 6): Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
their commitment should be to making a profit for their shareholders , if they can do that better by serving BFS instead of SNN then the decision is a sensible one
They are Aer Lingus - not Air Belfast !
I guess on that basis FR should close down all their bases outside of Ireland and just concentrate their 100 plus 737s on the market to/from Ireland ? or maybe U2 should shrink themselves back down to a purely UK based airline
in this day and age all airlines need to make the best use of their resources to generate the maximum possible returns and if EI can make more money from a base in BFS than a base in SNN ( I am by no means convinced that they will ) then they owe it to their shareholders and their employees to pursue that opportunity .
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
if there were enough customers at high enough yields I am sure that EI would not be pulling the service - at the end of the day EI are a business not a charity - if the market is there I am sure that someone else will step in , if no one else steps in then I guess that means that the market doesnt actually warrant it
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 23084 posts, RR: 60 Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1965 times:
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 8): ( I am by no means convinced that they will )
EI will do very well on the LHR and AMS routes , the others will be interesting to see. BA and KL codeshares will be a big benefit in filling the planes through the LHR and AMS hubs. AMS being the preffered option due to the hassle free transits. Years ago the KLM UK BFS-AMS were great but at that time the demand was different than it is now. With the economy booming in NI and political stability this is the right time for these services.
SimonOF From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 13 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1965 times:
[quote=Kiwiandrew,reply=10]if there were enough customers at high enough yields I am sure that EI would not be pulling the service - at the end of the day EI are a business not a charity - if the market is there I am sure that someone else will step in , if no one else steps in then I guess that means that the market doesnt actually warrant it
BUT
The SNN-LHR route was very profitable, and had a load factor of 80%.
Ei are leasing a number of their LHR slots to other airlines, valuable slots that could be used for flights to BFS.
Instead, EI have flipped off Shannon, and set up camp in BFS resulting in the loss of 45-50 jobs at SNN, and threatning economic stability in the West.
The latter is the truth. Dermot Mannion, the Chief Executive Officer of Aer Lingus admitted that the route was profitable, and had a LF of 80%, which is damn good. Who's to say they'll get 80% out of BFS? They'll have half as many flights to LHR as bmi do from BHD.
St. Flannan/ Fhlanain- She took off to find the footlights, And I took off for the sky
SimonOF From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 13 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1925 times:
Quote from an article on RTE News
This afternoon, Michael Noonan, Fine Gael TD for Limerick East, has said he has asked British Airways' Chief Executive Willie Walsh to provide a Shannon to Heathrow service to replace the one being discontinued by Aer Lingus.
Go Willie !! Maybe he has some loyalty to SNN following his EI stint !
Kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8308 posts, RR: 17 Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1904 times:
Quoting SimonOF (Reply 15): This afternoon, Michael Noonan, Fine Gael TD for Limerick East, has said he has asked British Airways' Chief Executive Willie Walsh to provide a Shannon to Heathrow service to replace the one being discontinued by Aer Lingus
and I am sure that if they feel the business case is there they will do it - if they dont feel the business case is there , then they wont
Quoting SimonOF (Reply 15): Go Willie !! Maybe he has some loyalty to SNN following his EI stint !
loyalty has nothing to do with it - if they can make sufficient ROI they will do it , if not , they wont
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
SimonOF From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 13 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1881 times:
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 16): and I am sure that if they feel the business case is there they will do it - if they dont feel the business case is there , then they wont
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 16): loyalty has nothing to do with it - if they can make sufficient ROI they will do it , if not , they wont
I know - that's obvious.... But at least the region are making firm actions in trying to defend this.
Shamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 5864 posts, RR: 17 Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1863 times:
It is not Aer Lingus's job to protect businesses in the Shannon area. What the airport should be doing is looking for an airline to replace Aer Lingus not trying to bully Aer Lingus into keeping the route. I'm glad SNN have started approaching new airlines, but damaging Aer Lingus will get them nowhere
If Aer Lingus made money on the route then another airline should be happy to replace them but only if the SAA can convince that airline with cooperation and a good deal. Aer Lingus is leaving SNN because their research has told them they will make more money at BFS. The job losses at EI is something I am not happy about and thats where Aer Lingus is to blame however any other job losses at businesses not associated with Aer Lingus is not the airlines problem and they shouldn't be blamed or bullied into keeping to the route so businesses in SNN can survive, no route is safe even if it's profitable, if a better opportunity comes along the airline will take it.
Aisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 752 posts, RR: 13 Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1850 times:
Quoting EISHN (Reply 5): FR fly to STN and LGW, but only EI fly to LHR from SNN. EI had no competition on the route, but decided to pull it anyway.
So they face competition on the SNN-LON market.
Quoting EISHN (Reply 5): threatning economic stability in the West.
If the stability was beared by 4 flights on 1 route on 1 carrier.... is it that stable?
SNN will still have many non-stops to London via LGW and STN. SNN will still have all the other non-stops to all over Europe. SNN will particulary still have AMS flights providing world conectivity on KLM, right? Basically, It's BA who will be losing SNN as destination.
Quoting EISHN (Reply 14): They'll have half as many flights to LHR as bmi do from BHD. Who's to say they'll get 80% out of BFS?
BA says. BD doesn't have the same feeding volume than EI-BA at LHR.
EISHN From Ireland, joined Feb 2007, 1502 posts, RR: 9 Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1816 times:
Quoting Aisak (Reply 19): SNN will particulary still have AMS flights providing world conectivity on KLM, right? Basically, It's BA who will be losing SNN as destination.
Wrong. SNN does not have a flight to AMS. That's why the LHR route was so important.
Quoting Aisak (Reply 19): SNN will still have many non-stops to London via LGW and STN. SNN will still have all the other non-stops to all over Europe.
SNN is mainly served by FR. Their times aren't always ideal for business travellers, and they fly to airports far from the destination you really want.
LHR was the only real European hub that SNN had access to.
St. Flannan/ Fhlanain- She took off to find the footlights, And I took off for the sky
COEI2007 From Vanuatu, joined Jan 2007, 1912 posts, RR: 7 Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1777 times:
Quoting SimonOF (Reply 12): The SNN-LHR route was very profitable, and had a load factor of 80%.
But they can earn twice as much on a BFS-LHR route. The fact is, EI has very strong competition on most of its routes, and needs to maximise its potential to make money; hence, a new base at BFS, and a switch from LHR-SNN to LHR-BFS. The media is reporting that SNN and business' in the region will have a case ready by Friday to put forward to the Govt and EI to try to keep LHR. I think if they want to keep LHR, the SAA is going to have to offer major, major discounts on fee's!!!
LHRBFSTrident From UK - Northern Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 589 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1524 times:
Quoting Aisak (Reply 19): Basically, It's BA who will be losing SNN as destination.
agree with this post - why are SNN pax connecting through LHR when they can stay loyal to their 'home' airline and connect through DUB?
seems like EI are actually protecting their home market share by forcing them now to connect through DUB, instead of delivering west Ireland pax to every other airline under the sun at LHR
sure EI's network doesn't give the same choice as all the destinations from LHR, but most of the USA is covered by EI routes and onward codeshares with AA, plus to the east: DXB, which offers connections to Asia and Australasia via EK
and if FR is so outraged by EI dropping SNN-LHR, then they are free to pick the route up themselves - oh wait, they can't afford to lease/buy the slots - well guess what, EI also can't afford to use the slots on SNN either
I mean it does seem like a crazy world where EI has no SNN-LHR route, but it also makes commercial sense to drop it too...
Next up: LAX-LHR NZ002 Y SkyCouch! LHR-LAX NZ001 Y
Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 15567 posts, RR: 61 Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1461 times:
Quoting SimonOF (Reply 12): The SNN-LHR route was very profitable, and had a load factor of 80%.
No airline would abandon a "very profitable" route. How do you know it was "very profitable" anyway? Does EI release profitability by route? Or is this just your wishful thinking?
Quoting SimonOF (Reply 12): set up camp in BFS resulting in the loss of 45-50 jobs at SNN, and threatning economic stability in the West.
Nonsense. Economic stability in SNN is not based on EI nonstops to LHR.
Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
Dstc47 From Ireland, joined Sep 1999, 1250 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1432 times:
The profitability question
The Chief Executive of EI apparently told crew at SNN that the LHR route was profitable. No surprising, they had a monopoly on the route and strong business as well as tourist links.
As for Ryanair not being able to afford slots, FR have so much money that they could "buy" or lease any slots they want, even to buy LHR itself lock stock and barrel should they wish - it just does not accord with their business model.
Passengers from SNN normally connect through LHR on to long haul services, or locations not at all served from Dublin. It is not particularly to avoid EI, - indeed it is a measure of desparation to use LHR as a transit point at all, given the abysmal and unreliable service there (not just in recent times). But SNN passengers have or (had) no better options.
25 Pilot21: This 'very profitable route for EI' has been taken by the SNN supporters and is now being used to rally people to their cause. EI have admitted the l
26 SimonOF: Mate - I don't quote wishful thinking. Dermot Mannon has stated several times it was a profitable route. It would appear that EI feel that BFS will b
27 Toulouse: While I understqnd the anger/disappointment of SNN-LHR flyers, Shamrock350 has summed it up.
28 EISHN: If it weren't for EI and the LHR route, then there wouldn't be a large Free zone and industrial estate at Shannon in the first place. No one has said
29 EIDAA: Well I am one of those that supports the EI decision regarding BFS (SNN was an unfortunate sacrifice) and this is where I saw the "twice as much" com
30 Shamrock350: I can totally understand your feelings towards Aer Lingus and how disappointed you must be, I'm sure if Cork's LHR route was dropped I would feel the
31 Tonymctigue: Because there is a very poor selection of flights on the DUB SNN route. In fact, there are only two daily's & those are both in the morning, both dep
32 Planemanofnz: Completely agree with you there. First and foremost, I would just like to say, that I am totally apalled that EI is dropping SNN-LHR. But, the suspen
33 AirNZ: Absolutely agree with you on both points. At this point does EI have the necessary a/c to do it though, considering they need three at BFS?
34 Al2637: EI will not operate ANY short haul flights from SNN after the LHR route is axed (other than stopover flights to DUB). The only way to operate to anoth
35 COEI2007: DUB-AMS-SNN could be operated by one crew, but then the crew would have to be overnighted in SNN.
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