Exitrowaisle From United States of America, joined May 2000, 264 posts, RR: 0 Posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2750 times:
I notice a lot of people who post messages here are airline employees (or even more common, kids of airline employees), and fly on passes in first class all the time. Does that sound fair? If there's extra space in first class, why don't airlines bump up more frequent flyers instead of giving it away to their own employees and their families? It strikes me as being callous and non-customer oriented. What do you think?
P.S. Don't take this as a personal knock on those who get to do it, mind you.
Redeye From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 79 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2660 times:
Along the same lines, I find it very interesting that airlines will not upgrade frequent flyers for long-haul international flights, only for domestic. Revenue passengers do have priority, but ONLY for domestic flights. Since non-rev employee/partner passengers fly first on a space-available basis, what ends up happening is that non-revs don't get upgraded on domestic legs, but end up flying first on international trips. Therefore non-revs are getting a much better deal than frequent-flyer revenue passengers, since an international first class seat can be worth thousands $$ more than a domestic one. I'm surprised that airlines don't even offer to upgrade revenue passengers AFTER the non-revs on international flights.
I'm definitely not begrudging the chance for employees to sit up front, I just don't understand why frequent flyers don't get the same opportunity on international flights.
Teahan From Belgium, joined Nov 1999, 5275 posts, RR: 62 Reply 3, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2626 times:
Well SR employees cannot fly in first anymore (since 97 or 98) They are allowed in Business Class but it is not free. It is a percentage of the fare or an ID00 which is all airport taxes + catering costs.
SIA do not offer any upgrades to any employees no matter what. Not even to Raffles Class.
If a CX, LH, etc.. employee is upgraded to F, they are not allowed to take the comfort pack or night suit.
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
Wpr8e From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2615 times:
What???? That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard. That is called training. As stated by Teshan, it is specific to the airlines. Frankly I think it is a perk of the job. If you give frequent fliers upgrades on long haul flights, then why should they sell first class since for a coach fare they will get an upgrade? That has already happened in domestic US.
SQA340 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 702 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2610 times:
My Dad works for UA in management and I get the benifits too.
It is not like we get first all of the time you know, we get put in coach too. We have to dress up to get listed for first. Imagine having to sit in coach all dressed up because first and Bus. was full. It is not really that fun.
Senority counts as a big thing for seat placement. If one is loyal to an airline for a long time, they have don e some hard work to stay with the company.
But dont worry, Economy Plus on united is for frequent flyer benfits, so they get reconized too.
I would like to say if I have accenditally bragged about beeing in First on the fourms that I am sorry. I never mean to downgrade or belittle people .
Watewate From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 2284 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2605 times:
I have never been through F/A training course, but doesn't it make sense for the airline to give employees incentives for working their jobs? Flying non-rev first is one of the few perks that come with the job that's not paid well. And yes, I do believe that employees can learn from experiencing first class once in a while. It's always good to put yourself in other shoes- in this case, the frequent flyers' shoes. You learn (or relearn) to appreciate the incredible amount of effort that go into putting forward such a product, which you can keep in your mind when serving customers.
Awaramper From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 118 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2589 times:
It's fair if there is room in 1st class. I don't think it would be right if non-revs were getting priority over revenue passengers. I fly a lot and very seldom do I get 1st class. But when I do it sure beats having to eat peanuts or whatever is in the "snack-sack"!!!!!
Wpr8e From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2569 times:
Too bad that the pax manifest tells the F/A who the nonrevs are. I wouldn't say that they will get the same service. I agree with you that you should give employees first if available. But let's not make more of it than it is.
Mdsmith11 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 194 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2560 times:
My two cents worth:
Yes, while us employees do get upgraded to First class occasionally, it only will happen AFTER if the plane were to push away from the gate with the First seats on-occupied. For example, if there are two first class seats available for a given trip, and there is myself, and two FF's wishing to upgrade. I can bet my paycheck that I'm gonna end up sitting in the back, but at least I'm inside the plane (and hopefully with a window seat) and not inside the terminal watching the plane push back without me.
Non-Revenue travel is space available and that means just that. Suppose that here in New Orleans both us (UAL) and American have departures to Chicago O'Hare at similiar times. If our flight is late/cancelled, then we're gonna give those pax to American Airlines, assuming that they have some empty seats. For Non-Rev's....sorry. If there is no more seats, then your're simply not going.
I travel very frequently and generally have have good luck. 21 out of my last 24 trips have been in first. And I have only gotten left behind at the gate once. With a lil pre-planning and always having a plan "B" "C" & "D"...etc you can usually get whereever it is that you need to go, but do be prepared in case it all starts to go wrong.
Mark from UAL @ MSY (Where it's foggy with MSY taking delays)
ILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 8 Reply 10, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2530 times:
I fly non-rev all of the time, and first of all this topic seems like the complaint center for the non "non-revers".
At almost any job that anyone works at there are perks. If you flip burgers at Burger King, you get all of the free fries that you want. This is no different for flying non-revenue. My dad works hard putting planes back out into service for United. We should be able to fly for free when we want...right? Well we do.
There are some rules to non-reving. First and foremost...THE PAYING PASSENGER ALWAYS HAS PRIORITY, OVER YOU...NO MATTER WHAT, AND UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, THEY HAVE PRIORITY OVER YOU.
Next thing, First class is not all that special. If you people that are paying pax, want to sit in first class...THEN BUY A TICKET, TO SIT IN FIRST! Or pay to upgrade!
Next thing, you must dress up to fly in first or business. When I fly, I tend to look a bit like a flight attendant.
Next thing, at the airport, you get a departure managment card, which confirms that you are listed. After all of the upgardes, and all of the paying pax has checked in and boarded, then the employee or family member of the employee with the highest seniority date gets called to the podium with his/her boarding pass. If there is an open seat that person gets the seat. They arnt making money on it anyway, so it dosnt matter. That seat would go out empty if that person wasnt sitting there.
Following them are the next highest senior people. And so on. On december 19th, I took a "joy ride" from SFO to SNA and back. I got seat 5A on my way down, but the paying pax, who was confirmed in that seat, bumped me, and I sat back in coach. So its not all that glorious.
On my way back, I got first again, when only 12 seats were taken, they boarded the 4 people that wanted to upgrade, and gave all of the non-revers first class.
This is a perk for airline employees, and if you dont like it, then get a job at the airlines.
Exitrowaisle From United States of America, joined May 2000, 264 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2523 times:
Good points. My additional 2 cents (which makes it 4 total so far!)
- I can't see there EVER being a reason for First to have space for non-revs! There are always enough frequent flyers who would love a chance to be upgraded, especially as a surprise! I was denied a PRE-RESERVED upgrade to Business a few months ago, and when I walked through the cabin to my Coach seat, there was ONE occupied seat in Business on a 767, and I'm a Platinum! What, not enough Champagne in the galley?
- Of course it doesn't hurt to have airline employees see the product they're offering, but why families? To me, the only persons this would apply to would be airline executives and flight attendants!
- To Mike in MSY-upgraded 21 out of 24 flights?! No disrespect, but I'll bet someone paying full fare in the back would've loved the chance to feel like the airline appreciated their business by moving them up! "Economy Plus" doesn't quite make the grade!
- As far as "perks," isn't almost-free travel anywhere in the world a big enough perk, even if you ARE in coach?
- Limit the number of upgrades available to employees to only a few a year.
- Make employees pay a substantial percentage of the difference in fares between coach and first.
I know this sounds like sour grapes to those who work for airlines and feel they deserve something back! I just wonder why people who pay thousands of dollars a year to an airline for "elite" status have to give their right arm for an upgrade, and are often denied, while the employees can take their families on numerous first-class vacations a year by wearing a tie!
ILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 8 Reply 12, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2515 times:
If you want to sit upfront, then buy a ticket. Its that simple. The airline gets nowhere when they habd out free upgrades just because the seats are open. The next time that the person is going to fly on that carrier, 99% chance that they will buy a coach seat.
FYI: At United you do have to pay for International First. Also, whats the big deal? If the seats are open they might as well give it to the s/a travelers becasue the pther pax are boarded.
You guys can bitch about having airline employees in first all you want, but it aint going to chance anything.
ILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 8 Reply 13, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2506 times:
A few other points.
At United, we are not upgraded like many of you think. We are down graded! We list for first, get oused into business, and finally rideit out in coach.
-Isnt it a little unfair to upgrade an economy person to first just because therre are open seats up there. Unless they specifcly request it, why should they be upgraded? Wouldn't that piss off the other 150 people who didnt get the upgrade? Just wondering.
Exitrowaisle From United States of America, joined May 2000, 264 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2498 times:
OK, ILUV767, glad to see this is sparking such a cool debate! What say you and I step outside and settle this man-to-man (just kidding!)
Seriously, though, do you think this is an attitude a future flight attendant (according to your profile and FBI file) should have? "You guys can bitch about having airline employees in first all you want, but it aint going to change anything." That's why there are websites like untied.com and northworst.org! I'm not advocating something-for-nothing! But, the traveler who logs thousands of miles with an airline is just as important to that company as its employees! We are doing the airline a favor, not the other way around. My opinion is, the airline should fill its premium cabins with its most loyal customers, or people who can and are willing to pay the huge fare difference. Frequent flyer status is in the computer. Even after boarding, the flight attendant could very discreetly (not on the PA) invite the people with the most miles to come up front, presumably from "Economy Plus". Wouldn't that make people want to fly the airline MORE to gain enough miles for the privelege? More business for the airline, more job security for the employees! And to use your argument, if you want to sit up front, why don't YOU buy a ticket (or at least part of one)?!
By the way, if you do become a flight attendant, I'm going to get an upgrade on United and say "remember me?" By the way, Happy New Year!
ILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 8 Reply 15, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2487 times:
I understand exactly what you are saying, and I can tell you that the people with high status at UA usually get upgraded, and they are upgraded before any UA employees or any non-revers are placed in first. Now, if I'm aboard the plane in first, and you show up 10 minutes before the flight and want to upgrade, you cant bump the s/a. You should have come to the gate early.
My point is, is that people get there upgrades, and when a seat is open, it goes to an employee. Why not give it to an employee? The only other time that an open seat would not be given to an employee if its open, if economy is ovesold, and they can move the oversold y class pax into first, then they will do that, then leaving the pax behind.
Also, why shouldnt employees and their familys get first if its open?
Anyway, I wish you a happy new year, and thank you for flying with today on the friendly skies!
Purdue Arrow From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1574 posts, RR: 8 Reply 16, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2480 times:
Like several others on this forum, I enjoy the privelege of non-revenue travel on American Airlines. American allows non-revs to travel in any class of service available, but upgrades at American are not free. If I want to leave coach, I'm required to pay an upgrade fee that varies from route to route. The only exception to this is if coach is full - if they can't accommadate a non-rev who requested coach, then they will comp the upgrade. Why, then, should they upgrade a normal passenger for nothing, when they can get a little more income on the flight by upgrading a non-rev? Travel is one of the perks of airline employment, and a certain amount of premium travel is to be expected. Some non-rev travellers log just as many miles as an elite frequent flier - I'd be AAdvantage Platinum of we earned miles - we appreciate a nicer seat every now and again, too.
SEVEN_FIFTY7 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 957 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2459 times:
If there are 30 frequent fliers in coach and 4 empty first class seats, how the hell would the Customer Service people decide which of those 4 frequent fliers are gonna be the lucky ones to get upgraded? -Should it go by how many miles each one logged thus far? -Should it go by the price they paid for that particular flight? -Should it go by how old the old farts are? -Should it go by who has the prettiest tie? ...Whatever random upgrade criteria you go by, you'd piss off all the other 26 FFs who won't think it's fair that *they* didn't get upgraded.
Also, I have several friends who work at UA and according to them, United ALWAYS upgrades their 100Ks and Premiers. I think it's kool for employees to be able to sit in FC every now and then. Afterall, the pay sucks. Plus, you couldn't pay me enough to deal with the hordes of abusive 40-50 year old spoiled brats who cry about everything imaginable on their flight from San Francisco to Chicago. I know I'd be fired after the first week. (If not in jail).
Jfidler From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 326 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2458 times:
I've always looked at it from a cost side. And from that angle, it seems as if FFs should be upgraded before non-revs.
The difference between first class and coach are in 3 areas: space, service (people), meals.
Two of those have little effect on cost, in that they're "sunk" costs. The seat (space) is there on the plane, and the # of flight attendants for that section has already been allocated, regardless of # of passengers in F-class.
But meals must cost a lot more. So for every additional non-paying passenger in F-class, whether a non-rev, or an upgraded frequent flyer, that costs more money. And that brings the cost for everyone's ticket up (over time), doesn't it? In terms of return for that "upgrade" investment, at least upgrading FFs might encourage them to fly with that airline more often and result in more revenue down the line.
SegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2450 times:
WOOHOO!! a topic I can really throw some input in.
I fly revenue quite a bit, and do a ton of non-reving... and it's not all that easy to get into First.
About revenue passengers up front -> normally, you have to ask for it. United FASTAIR will ask for a boarding priority and reason for an upgrade. You just can't put in "comp" for anyone... the agent needs some sort of duty code to list in order for it to be fair to the nonrevers. Because, you paid $99 for your trip and the airline is loosing money on you.. putting you up front will cost an extra $85 to $165 depending on your trip to the airline. So if you are flying on a cheap seat and don't use frequent flyer miles or a frequent flyer paid upgrade, you wont' make it to First Class.
First Class is A PRIVILEDGE... not a RIGHT!!!
I've asked many times about flying in F or Econ Plus when I am booked in a Q V or W class fare on United (lower end, normally 7 - 21 day adv fares) and I am asked for a reason. Saying I was on the board of an employee group won't help, nor being a travel agent. I would need to either get the agent's sympathy "I've never flown First before!" or something. That has worked like 4 times on United, and 2 on Northwest.
United has to protect it's revenue and it's product. I don't think a person paying full F from ORD to LGA is going to appreciate having a W class fare passenger sitting next to him, because he WILL brag about it .. I've heard it SO Many times!! (pax) "Wow.. I paid $182 for this ticket and i'm in first class! THIS IS SO COOL!!" only to have the full fare pax very very disturbed and upset. United has received MANY MANY complaint letters on this one. Non Revs, on the other hand, NEVER BRAG INFLIGHT or tell the person next to them they are flying free. NEVER. if an FA catches yo doing it, you can loose your flight benefits.
Again, First Class / Business Class is NOT A RIGHT... but a PRIVILEDGE!
Exitrowaisle From United States of America, joined May 2000, 264 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2430 times:
Very good arguments, I'll admit. Didn't know the exact airline policies on non-rev upgrades. Just a question to SegmentKing, isn't the airline losing money on your seat as much as on someone who paid a discount fare? You get all the services of a full-fare passenger too, don't you? I can understand someone paying $1,000 for a first-class ticket being upset at a person paying a bargain fare getting identical service, but that's one of the pitfalls of the frequent flyer program. I agree first class is a "privelege," that's why I would NOT argue that someone showing up in torn sweats and a baseball cap should be moved up regardless of the number of miles they've flown. Nor do I expect you to give up your place for someone who shows up five minutes before the door closes and demands a seat. If you expect an upgrade, you'd better look and act the part! For that matter, that goes for ALL classes! Oh, well. Hope to see you all on board someday. I'll be the guy going "I only paid $182 and I'm in first class! THIS IS SO COOL!"
Exusair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 684 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2427 times:
Screw those Frequent Flyers! They're the first to hoot and holler when their flights get delayed or cancelled and they yell the loudest and longest! It's our airplane and we'll put whoever we want up front whenever we want. They do sell those seats up there you know......If you want up there that bad, BUY A TICKET!!!