UnitedFirst From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 478 posts, RR: 2 Posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3078 times:
From ATW:
"Lufthansa will use the introduction of the A380, which is scheduled to join the fleet in time for the summer 2009 schedule, as an opportunity to launch an all-new first class product across its long-haul fleet. LH Passenger Airlines Executive VP-Service and Human Resources Karl Ulrich Garnadt told ATWOnline in Munich that the 16 long-haul aircraft absent a first class cabin will be fitted 'in the next 2-3 years,' with the remaining 69 receiving the upgrade after it is introduced on the A380."
"Garnadt said the number of first class passengers has increased 20% in the past two years. Approximately 20% of LH passengers travel in either first or business class worldwide and it generates about 50% of its long-haul revenue from the premium cabins."
Clearly Lufthansa's refreshed commitment to its First Class customers (the cornerstone of which is FRA's FCT – leading to MUC's FCT which will open next week, and reports ATW, "a first class lounge will open at New York JFK by the middle of next year") is working.
Notable is that Star partners United and Lufthansa will be two of the ever-shrinking group of airlines to offer three-class cabin service across their intercontinental networks.
UPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2677 times:
Quoting UnitedFirst (Thread starter): Notable is that Star partners United and Lufthansa will be two of the ever-shrinking group of airlines to offer three-class cabin service across their intercontinental networks.
Do you think is that notable? OneWorld partners BA, AA, QF, CX, JL do offer 3-class on long haul
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26725 posts, RR: 83 Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2669 times:
That will be nice. I stopped taking LH PDX-FRA when they dropped F on the A343 so once it comes back, so will I.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21498 posts, RR: 24 Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2574 times:
Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 1): Do you think is that notable? OneWorld partners BA, AA, QF, CX, JL do offer 3-class on long haul
But they don't offer first class on their entire longhaul networks. For example, BA doesn't have first class to several of their destinations in the US and Canada where there is no market. There are very few markets worldwide with enough passengers willing to pay the high fares, often 3 or 4 times as high as the already high business class fares, for products that in many cases aren't much better than business class.
Carriers that do offer first class on their entire longhaul network usually have a lot of routes where the first class cabin is empty or full of upgrades. And carriers that have eliminated first class usually offer better business class products than those that still have first class.
UPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2388 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4): But they don't offer first class on their entire longhaul networks
I highly doubt LH will offer 3-classes on their entire long haul network just based in your analysis regarding limited markets for F......business wise the best way to go is the same way as BA and AF have gone, newer planes on 3 classes which in LH case might be A380, A346 and B748, thus leaving the A343 and A332 on 2 classes for the low yield markets.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26725 posts, RR: 83 Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2346 times:
Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 3): So which way do you get from PDX to FRA all the way on F?
I either fly SEA-LAX on UA and connect to LH or I hold my nose and fly UA SEA-ORD-FRA.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21498 posts, RR: 24 Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2238 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 6): I either fly SEA-LAX on UA and connect to LH or I hold my nose and fly UA SEA-ORD-FRA.
Do you consider the various alternative business class products (apart from LH PDX-FRA which you obviously don't like) so bad that you are willing to take I don't know how many more hours and fly 1500nm further via LAX to get to FRA? Since you appear to be in SEA,why not SK via CPH, KL via AMS, AF via CDG, or BA via LHR? And if not mistaken, BA offers a pretty good first class product from SEA to LHR (although, admittedly, having to connect at LHR would be one possible deterrent!)
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26725 posts, RR: 83 Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2220 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7): Do you consider the various alternative business class products (apart from LH PDX-FRA which you obviously don't like) so bad that you are willing to take I don't know how many more hours and fly 1500nm further via LAX to get to FRA?
No they're not bad at all from what I have seen and heard. I just prefer the privacy/ambiance of First Class, to be honest. And until recently I was wedded to Star Alliance so BA was not an option (SK and NW don't have First). And I prefer FRA as my connecting point, plus I do have options like SQ via JFK (though getting their via UA from SEA is a pain).
BOAC911 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 445 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2138 times:
DFW has not had F for quite a while, while AA continues to offer it. In my opinion a big mistake, is LH not making any money at DFW?
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26725 posts, RR: 83 Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2115 times:
Quoting BOAC911 (Reply 9): DFW has not had F for quite a while
That is too bad. Is LH Sky Chefs still there? A friend of mine used to fly LH F as much as possible because they tested new meals on the DFW-FRA flight.
SailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6 Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1907 times:
Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 5): newer planes on 3 classes which in LH case might be A380, A346 and B748, thus leaving the A343 and A332 on 2 classes for the low yield markets.
LH's 2 class planes are some of the A343 and the FRA-based A346s ...
Atlantaflyboy From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 73 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1847 times:
I think that putting First Class fleetwide may have more to with being able to have more flexibility with aircraft scheduling than anything else. Being able to adjust a route's aircraft type seasonally and on various days of the week based on demand seems to be gaining ever more momentum. LH seem to be very adept at controlling yield in the markets they serve. Gone are the guarantees of 747's year round just because. Now it may be a 343 on Monday and Tuesday, a 342 on Wednesday, a 346 on Thursday/Friday and a 744 on Saturday/Sunday or any combo thereof. Having the ability to offer any aircraft type on any route is a good thing. Also helps when equipment swaps are needed due to mechanical reasons and the same gauge equipment is not available. This softens the blow of an equipment downgrade when the least # of First and Business travellers are impacted.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31119 posts, RR: 74 Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1843 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4): For example, BA doesn't have first class to several of their destinations in the US and Canada where there is no market.
I wouldn't call Dallas, Denver, and Montreal "several".
UPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1736 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13): Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
For example, BA doesn't have first class to several of their destinations in the US and Canada where there is no market.
I wouldn't call Dallas, Denver, and Montreal "several".
At least for this summer LGW-DFW is a 3-class 772, but don't forget about MCO, TPA, ATL, all getting 2 class 772's and DTW getting 763's.
Summarizing is DEN, YUL, MCO, TPA, ATL, DTW, so in my opinion it can be called "several"
Ag92 From India, joined Jul 2006, 1317 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1715 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4): Carriers that do offer first class on their entire longhaul network usually have a lot of routes where the first class cabin is empty or full of upgrades.
SQ, though it only has one type of aircraft which dosent operate a first class cabin.
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