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United Airlines Growth Rumor  
User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 16147 times:

There are more routes coming to Chicago in the next 3 years if all is true with the rumors from the United Airlines crowd. It has been discussed for some time that United Airlines may indeed be offer service to:

Milan from ORD(a current Alitalia route/an ex-American Airlines route)
Moscow from ORD(a current Aeroflot route)
Dusseldorf from ORD(a former United Airlines route)

These routes will come from the retrofit of domestic 2 class 767-300 equipment to 3-class international config and powerplant upgrade for the longer sectors. In any case good luck to United Airlines if any of this is true. These 4 767-300 ships would be pulled from the Hawaii flights and replacing the Hawaiian flights 4 Hawaiian routes with 767-300 with 6 757 ships for 4 new routes flights to Hawaii.

The reason for this has to do with the PHH contract and additional lift being discussed from additional airports to Honolulu and Maui. Rumoured routes and changes to be:

SAN-HNL going from 1x per week to 3x per week(Current HA route)
SEA-HNLto be going from 1x per week to 4x per week(Current HA/NW route)
SEA-OGG to be a new route 1x per week(Current HA/NW route)
PDX-HNL to be a new route 2x per week (Current HA/NW route)
PDX-OGG to be a new route 2x per week (Current HA route)
SMF-HNL to be a new route 2x per week (Current HA route)

Notice that none of the above mentioned routes interfere with Aloha Airlines traffic. There was discussion of SAN-OGG operating however it was rumored to be decided against as it would compete directly with Aloha Airlines, an airline United Airlines has a dedicated interest in. The other remaining 4 767-300 reductions from the Hawaiian flights ex-SFO/LAX-Hawaii would be downgraded to 757-200 service. In the end the number should wash with each other. The SFO and LAX downgrades would not effect United Airlines to Hawaii overall as the additional services would relieve seats and demand from the SFO/LAX to Hawaii flights. In the long-term United Airlines will be planning to invest more in the Hawaiian market, all the while eating into a number of routes key to Hawaiian Airlines. This would make the AQ/UA tieup even more interesting.

Has anyone else heard of these being discussed?

-JD

101 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUnitedFirst From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 478 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 16064 times:

Frankly, I'm not sold on those trans-Atlantic services, with the possible exception of a return to DUS. However, in this industry, never say never.

However, your information about new service to Hawaii is quite interesting. United's always been a leader in the Hawaiian market, and clearly they're doubling their efforts now in conjunction with AQ. Although they are only rumored, it sounds like a sound decision if properly executed.


User currently offlineLHUSA From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 565 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 16063 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Thread starter):
Dusseldorf from ORD(a former United Airlines route)

I don't see this one happening. UA flew the route in the past and dropped it (which doesn't really mean they won't bring it back) but LH is upgrading thier business jet on ORD-DUS to a 3-cabin A333 this May.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Thread starter):
Moscow from ORD(a current Aeroflot route)

SU doesn't fly the route any longer, but I think it would be a goldmine for UA. Do they have the authority to fly to SVO?


User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 16002 times:

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 2):
SU doesn't fly the route any longer, but I think it would be a goldmine for UA. Do they have the authority to fly to SVO?

I have questioned SVO, but I am sure they would go for DME, as that is the Star Alliance airport for Moscow. I would also question whether or not they have the right to fly to Russia. What is the current US agreement for air service to Russia? Does anyone know?

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 2):
I don't see this one happening. UA flew the route in the past and dropped it (which doesn't really mean they won't bring it back) but LH is upgrading thier business jet on ORD-DUS to a 3-cabin A333 this May.

I've questioned this as well. That is why I posted the rumor. I thought that UAL suspended ORD-DUS due to poor yields and traffic, yet I also heard that Lufthansa may open the route, and lastly that United would restart the route. Has the route officially been announced by Lufthansa?

-JD


User currently offlineLHUSA From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 565 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15963 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 3):
Has the route officially been announced by Lufthansa?

LH currently flies the route 5 times per week with a 48-seat Business Jet (A319). I believe the route has been operated since 2003 or 2004.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25542 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15886 times:

Nice rumor, however to bring people back to earth. IF United were to do the suggested additional Atlantic flying it would not be out of ORD, but IAD instead. Load and revenue performance from IAD outpaces ORD by some margin.

For 2008, the only added Atlantic flying that I can realistically see is DEN-LHR which has been eluded by the company, and possibly one additional "Capital to Capital" flight.

Hawaii anything is possible, however UA only has a 16 strong 757 ETOPS fleet, so getting and modifying additional airframes from the mainline fleet will be a costly venture. Add the fact that the carriers winglet plans specifically only call for the 13 p.s. and 16 etops aircraft starting October - additional shipsets were not purchased.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineUnitedFirst From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 478 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15801 times:

With Lufthansa on the ORD-DUS route with an A330, an extra 767 flight seems rather unlikely.

Also, Laxintl makes a valid point about IAD.

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 2):
Do they have the authority to fly to SVO?

If I recall correctly, based on seeing a list of dormant UA authorities from a few years ago, there is an authority to fly to Moscow.

I agree that if Moscow service ever began, it would likely be to DME – not SVO.


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15788 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
IF United were to do the suggested additional Atlantic flying it would not be out of ORD, but IAD instead. Load and revenue performance from IAD outpaces ORD by some margin.

Agreed but with the FCO route out of IAD, does it make sense to bring back the Milan flight from IAD?

Moscow IMHO should have started ages ago, so I hope that this is true.

The only think I know is that LHR-DEN is a gimme for next year transatlantic wise anyway thats the worst secret out there, anything else will be a bonus.


User currently offlineFUN2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1052 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 15735 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Thread starter):
Dusseldorf from ORD(a former United Airlines route)

DUS is a tough market to size up. In 2000 CO had DC10 service and UAL had 767 service (approx 400 seats) - both cut post 2001. In theory, could DUS support one carrier's service now - probably. However, since then, CGN has picked up CO 757 and Privitair DUS service as mentioned above. DUS service would be affected by these factors (approx 223 daily seats). If it were plausible, 757 service by DL, CO, US would be the least risky, most economical option.


User currently offlineManny From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 15672 times:

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 7):
The only think I know is that LHR-DEN is a gimme for next year transatlantic wise anyway thats the worst secret out there, anything else will be a bonus.

I hope so.
Because when it comes to planning for trans ocean flights, UA always forgets they have a hub in DEN.


User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 15672 times:

Quoting FUN2FLY (Reply 8):
I don't see this one happening. UA flew the route in the past and dropped it (which doesn't really mean they won't bring it back) but LH is upgrading thier business jet on ORD-DUS to a 3-cabin A333 this May.

Could it be a possibility that LH and UA coordinate their schedules on DUS-ORD like e.g. UA 3 weekly and LH 4 weekly,

maybe same departure time and shared revenue?? They work pretty close together over the Atlantic. That way LH could fly to another destination from DUS just using one a/c.



NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently offlineAAL0616 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 272 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 15603 times:

RE: SVO/DME:

United holds the [dormant] pre-1991 Pan Am certificate that ran through LHR and CPH, acquired via the 1991 UA/PA Heathrow transaction.

Delta flies the pre-1991 Pan Am certificate that ran through FRA and BER, acquired via the 1991 DL/PA Atlantic Division transaction.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5815 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 15442 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Thread starter):
SEA-HNLto be going from 1x per week to 4x per week(Current HA/NW route)

That route could get crowded if your info is accurate.

AS starts flying it daily in a few months.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineAddd From United States of America, joined May 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 15374 times:

More on ORD-Moscow:

SU flew to ORD before 2001 and may still have a certificate, but the route has been dormant since late 2001.

IMHO, ORD to MOW is not a sure bet for United (especially in absence of a Star Alliance partner in Russia) - DL flies daily frequencies from JFK and ATL to SVO, and SU flies to JFK (daily), LAX and SEA also from SVO; both are doing well on all the routes, but not necessarily well enough to justify significant growth in capacity between US and Moscow.

CO has been trying to launch EWR-MOW (they supposedly are looking at both SVO and DME) for years, and has not done so mostly because they could not get permission from Russian authorities - at any rate, they are well ahead of United to launch a new service to Mowcow


User currently onlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2714 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15305 times:

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 2):
SU doesn't fly the route any longer, but I think it would be a goldmine for UA.

No one flies Chicago-Moscow? I find that shocking considering that I would think the O&D traffic for both cities alone could support it!

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
IF United were to do the suggested additional Atlantic flying it would not be out of ORD, but IAD instead.

I think either IAD or ORD, a flight to Moscow from UA would be a cash cow.

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 11):
United holds the [dormant] pre-1991 Pan Am certificate that ran through LHR and CPH, acquired via the 1991 UA/PA Heathrow transaction.

Does this mean they have to go through LHR or CPH? Could they fly to Moscow from the US direct?

I really think United should order some 763ERs from Boeing to open up some lucrative international routes. I would bet they could get a pretty good deal from Boeing to help keep the line open until the tanker deal happens...and they could also get them pretty quick! I think the 763ER is still a great plane!

Even if United replaces it in 2025 with a 787, it will have 17 years of good use, and would convert nicely to a freighter for UPS.


User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15286 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 12):
That route could get crowded if your info is accurate.

AS starts flying it daily in a few months.

United holds the PHH contract, that would be guaranteed business..

-JD


User currently offlineAlphascan From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 937 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15251 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Thread starter):
Has anyone else heard of these being discussed?

No.

I'd like to hear the sources of these rumors because they are delusional.

How much sense does it make to pull down service out of hubs and begin long and thin P2P routes against competition that offers superior service? UA would be nothing but a spill carrier with the frequencies you suggest. It would make more sense to fly wingtip 757 flights out of LAX and SFO where there is ample feed then to try to take on NW and HA out of their smaller established markets where they offer significantly more frequency.

By the way, just trying to figure out when you would have time to hear such rumors when you have posted 1286 times in three months. And that being with the time off from the admins for bad behavior.



"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5815 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15196 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 15):
United holds the PHH contract, that would be guaranteed business..

Understood, but that is still a lot of seats entering the market. And its not all being added simply for the PHH contract is it?

Between AS and UA it still is a lot of capacity that will also be chasing the other Hawaii business on SEA-HNL.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15196 times:

Quoting Alphascan (Reply 16):
I'd like to hear the sources of these rumors because they are delusional.

Hate to break it to you, the source of the rumors is from inside United Airlines San Francisco base..

Quoting Alphascan (Reply 16):
How much sense does it make to pull down service out of hubs and begin long and thin P2P routes against competition that offers superior service? UA would be nothing but a spill carrier with the frequencies you suggest. It would make more sense to fly wingtip 757 flights out of LAX and SFO where there is ample feed then to try to take on NW and HA out of their smaller established markets where they offer significantly more frequency.

So you are saying that who offers a more superior product to United Airlines in the Hawaiian market?

You are aware that the PHH contract has done extremely well, and that more service is being looked at?

Maybe the people at PHH are dilusional? Maybe the people at the SFO UAL base are dilusional?

Your comments in the above are a bit tasteless.

Quoting Alphascan (Reply 16):
By the way, just trying to figure out when you would have time to hear such rumors when you have posted 1286 times in three months. And that being with the time off from the admins for bad behavior

Seems like you are having a bad day...  Smile

I certainly am not, I am en-route to the UAE this evening! Big grin

-JD


User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15182 times:

The United routes of SAN-HNL is a real let down, personally i do not like having a stop over on my way to hawaii, and now that i have flown hawaiian air, and how cheap their tickets are plus how much nicer the flight is in a 767 where you actually get treated like a customer in coach instead of cattle, UA's flights to hawaii are almost $900 for the dates i am flying next year, and HA is only $425, the only way i could consider flying UA to hawaii again would be if i had enough points, but they are losing out on SAN-OGG routes which are very popular, on my street at least 10 families have said they are going on HA because they want direct flights, so UA should step up, and when i asked why they didn't fly Aloha their reason was the same as mine, a little 737 for 5 hours doesn't work for me.

User currently offlineHNL-Jack From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15143 times:

It's hard to imagine that UA is going to add additional service out of SEA, PDX & SAN to Hawaii. HA is clearly entrenched in the Northwest and their 767 service is far superior to United. As mentioned, the entry of AS into the market would only add to Uniteds difficulty. And, the SAN market is too thin to sustain any more service. The only possiblity I could see is that UA has lined up some additional wholesaler contracts which would insure a certain number of seats.

HA is now a strong number two on the West Coast to Hawaii and with a couple of more airplanes could very well surpass UA. UA's comittment to the market ebbs and flows and the market has reacted to that and the fact that both HA and AQ offer superior service.



Grew up in the business and continued the family tradition.
User currently offlineAlphascan From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 937 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15063 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 18):
the source of the rumors is from inside United Airlines San Francisco base..

Yeah, I heard a rumor that was where all the decisions are being made lately.



"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
User currently offlineRDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1496 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15014 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
Nice rumor, however to bring people back to earth. IF United were to do the suggested additional Atlantic flying it would not be out of ORD, but IAD instead. Load and revenue performance from IAD outpaces ORD by some margin.

You beat me to it. UA has shown that IAD is their primary European gateway and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I for one don't think IAD-MOW would be a good move for UA. SU struggled to fill IAD-SVO even when it dropped to 2x week. For a while, they tried stops at JFK, but all-in-all I just don't think it has the demand/yield for a non-stop, even with UA's IAD feed.

With regards to the Hawaiian expansion, I could see UA doing that, esp. with the stake in Aloha now. Admittedly, I don't know much about the pricing in the Hawaiian market, but I know UA already has the majority of U.S. Mainland-HA traffic.

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 19):
The United routes of SAN-HNL is a real let down, personally i do not like having a stop over on my way to hawaii, and now that i have flown hawaiian air, and how cheap their tickets are plus how much nicer the flight is in a 767 where you actually get treated like a customer in coach instead of cattle, UA's flights to hawaii are almost $900 for the dates i am flying next year, and HA is only $425, the only way i could consider flying UA to hawaii again would be if i had enough points, but they are losing out on SAN-OGG routes which are very popular, on my street at least 10 families have said they are going on HA because they want direct flights, so UA should step up, and when i asked why they didn't fly Aloha their reason was the same as mine, a little 737 for 5 hours doesn't work for me.

Using your logic, UA should stop charging $900 (which they are obviously getting or they wouldn't charge so much) and lower their price so that your street's families are happy. I hope you don't work in Revenue Management!



Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25542 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15000 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 18):
PHH

Btw - it has not been PHH for a few years now. Simply know as Pleasant Holidays instead.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePlaneGuy27 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15000 times:

Quoting Addd (Reply 13):
CO has been trying to launch EWR-MOW (they supposedly are looking at both SVO and DME) for years, and has not done so mostly because they could not get permission from Russian authorities - at any rate, they are well ahead of United to launch a new service to Mowcow

I believe CO has already announced in their DOT application that they would do EWR-DME. Of course, SU was pissed because why would a fellow SkyTeam partner not fly to SVO? Hmmm.... WHo knows where CO will end up now? The DME application went in around the same time as CO's other 762 apps into ACC and LOS.


25 FATFlyer : According to Hawaii tourism statistics, the SEA to HNL market is only up 12% in tourists in the first 6 months of this year. That is only an additiona
26 LAXdude1023 : I think MXP would be better off at IAD. IAD tends to be the favored hub for UA to Europe. DUS is being upgraded to a 333 next spring (last I checked)
27 Laxintl : ORD-Moscow would be a more ethnic and seasonal market, while IAD would provide steadier East Coast business and government traffic while still provid
28 B752OS : Didn't AZ have a terrible time on IAD-MXP. If that is the case, why would UA attempt it? I know people will say sonnections within the U.S., but bare
29 Aloha73G : PHH: Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays or Pleasant Holidays Also, AQ flies OGG-SAN and OGG-SMF daily which is probably why UA isn't since under their new ag
30 Laxintl : For those that bring up MXP lets remember consider the following. UA served MXP for quite some time pulling the route in January 2003. (dropped CCS, D
31 FLYGUY767 : If the above were true you would not see: VR, AT, ME, SV, PK, EY, EK, JL, TG, SQ, JJ, CA, IR, QR, US and others serving MXP None of the airlines I ha
32 N174UA : I don't see it. UA gave up on SEA-HNL a while ago and have since dipped their toes back in with Saturday only with a 757. With AS starting up, I don'
33 Post contains images Laxintl : Traffic data. Go ask other US carriers Btw - I'm not here to argue with someone with 1300 post having joined 77 days ago.
34 Osprey88 : I think that UA could do well with summer service such as IAD-VCE or ORD-VCE to give some competition to DL's JFK-VCE and ATL-VCE and soon CO's EWR-VC
35 FLYGUY767 : US Airways recently added Malepnsa and Venice, were those because their was no traffic? Delta Air Lines recently introduced Altanta to Venice, and JF
36 FLYGUY767 : US Airways recently added Malpensa and Venice, were those because their was no traffic? Delta Air Lines recently introduced Atlanta to Venice, and JF
37 Laxintl : No, but in absolute terms Rome market is Bigger -- pretty simple. Add in my other reasons listed Reply30, you might comprehend my FCO was more attrac
38 Panamair : Milan is a difficult market, Period. Delta has a tough time with JFK-MXP on a year-round basis (and has always had a tough go of it; even Pan Am didn'
39 Jcf5002 : Well, I don't know about expanding their flight schedule, but I do know they've run out of furloughed pilots to bring back and just hired 100 brand sp
40 Aloha73G : Once again, United has the contract for Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays, the #1 provider of Hawai'i vacation packages. They will not need to find passenge
41 FLYGUY767 : What "absolute" terms? Malpensa handles the majority of international traffic to and from Italy, Rome is second. As I have pointed out that while pax
42 FLYGUY767 : Agreed 100% United Airlines has very, very strong Mileage Plus membership in the PDX, SEA, SMF, SAN, and Hawaii as a whole. I dont count anything unt
43 Airlittoralguy : While combining MXP, LIN and BGY, is Milan not much bigger than FCO + CIA in Rome ? This both for cargo and pax figures . In fact, is Milan not one of
44 Flybynight : How about Seattle - London? UA used to fly this route. I believe BA is now up to 2 daily flights to SEA from Heathrow. You could argue a UA flight to
45 Laxintl : Look at boardings for US carriers at FCO vs MXP. FCO is the larger US-Italy market for those carriers. If you are bored you can also take a look at h
46 FATFlyer : But the west coast to Hawaii is different than the specific SEA to Hawaii market I'm talking about. The current market from the Seattle MSA to Oahu i
47 UN_B732 : I think Aeroflot will take SVO-ORD once they get the 787s (or the A330s) AeroSvit had an application for KBP-ORD, but since Ukraine is CATII with the
48 Aloha73G : Hawaiian Airlines alone offers over 5,000 seats per week between Seattle and Hawai'i (250 seats x 21 weekly flights = 5,250). The connecting market m
49 ORD Boy 2 : what happened to IAD-DXB and what about other routes that I am sure UA holds like to TLV which I assume they hold a right through the Pan Am Deal
50 PlaneGuy27 : That went to Delta and not United. TWA's went to American ... United is current trying to get a code share approved between them and Swiss to Israel.
51 Hiflyer : Figure ORD expansion to be more likely that IAD for Intl....IAD customs is running about twice capacity and is a mess...a real mess....with no immedia
52 FLYGUY767 : I am willing to bet out of every 90 out of every 100 people that live in Hawaii dont know of Alaska Airlines, and do know United Airlines. The sense
53 N174UA : Won't happen because... BA is a legend on that route. If BA thinks someone can profitably move in, they'll take action to prevent that. Between AF to
54 DL767captain : I'm not sure what you mean I should not work in management, $900 is a rediculous amount, and while they might be getting that from some people they a
55 HNL-Jack : At one time everyone in Hawaii wore UA on their sleeve. They were the hometown airline. Not so today. HA's FF program surpasses UA's by substantial nu
56 FLYGUY767 : Lately the Hawaiian Airlines crews are less than anxious and more likely to be sitting in the galley and talking story than caring to fly up the aisl
57 EVA777SEA : Tell that to EI, BD, and VS. All of whom have stated interest in flying to SEA. Although, I do not see UA re-entering the market, especially if BD ha
58 Flightopsguy : Remember BAL-HNL nonstop on the DC-8-62? A very thoughtful response, Jack!
59 BAW716 : Chicago-Milan? I don't think so. Reason: The market is not large enough to support two carriers and unless UA is thinking that AZ will disappear (whic
60 Post contains images Laxintl : Thanks for confirming my point that Rome is a larger market for US airlines. Indeed. You expect AZ to shut down service in the winter months to most
61 SANFan : Source for this statement please? I disagree completely. For example, the only reason AQ is not flying SAN-HNL is the lack of a/c; they had the route
62 Flybynight : I would love it if UA flew to OSL. YES!! Say Dulles to OSL. Use one of those premium 757's. If Continental can do it... Of course SK might get a littl
63 Scorpy : I would still think that if they are going to convert a few 763's to international standards, that DEN-LHR would get the nod before ORD-MXP. A daily 7
64 FATFlyer : 90 out of 100 people in Hawaii? shouldn't we look at the Seattle MSA, the larger end of the route. The state population in Hawaii is about 1.3 millio
65 Ualcsr : The number one issue for UA is aircraft availability. Although UA throws us a curve ball every now and then (KWI, FCO), I still think that any UA expa
66 Mymiles2go : Ethiopia?
67 Laxintl : Great, however TK has talked about starting the route themselves which I am sure would work for UA to code-share with. Have heard about MAD on and of
68 Ualcsr : Yes. ET already code shares with LH and there have rumblings about their joining *A. With Ethiopia having been an Italian colony, there are certainly
69 VC10er : why are these proposed routes called growth plans, like IAD to GIG this fall, when all they do is kill one route over there and add another over there
70 RDUDDJI : I completely disagree. IAD has two customs areas, one common use area for all carriers and one for UA/Star connecting pax. IAD is likely has the best
71 FLYGUY767 : As I have said every European destination and Italian destination is served from MXP except for Brindisi, Reggio Calabria, and Cagliari which are rou
72 Post contains links Laxintl : Its a several hundred page presentation that was prepared for the carrier. I dont know of its avaialbility online. However in media reports over the
73 FLYGUY767 : Thanks for the articles... According to the articles it is the standard "two-hubs" are bad. Which is false. It is the airline that is based at both h
74 Laxintl : LH has indeed done a good job. Some of MUC growth off course has been out of necessity as FRA became saturated. I would not say it "works". IB has ju
75 Post contains images SFORunner : SEA, SMF, SAN, and PDX all have service to the non-West Coast UA hubs (DEN, ORD, IAD). The possible increase / introduction of service to Hawaii from
76 Post contains images Mk777 : Maybe UA could do IAD-DEL non-stop especially when AI joins the *A!!!! With DL, CO and AA already in the Indian market, i am wondering what the UA str
77 Post contains images SFORunner : There's no non-stop passenger service between KWI and SIN. And hey, IAD - KWI - SIN is roughly the same length as IAD - NRT - SIN.
78 FLYGUY767 : The aircraft is not on the ground long enough KWI-SIN is 7.55 hours factoring in a 2 hour turn, winds et all you would need 18-19 hours for the turn
79 Post contains images AirCanada014 : So how soon will UA place a huge order of B787s? I would like to see them in UA liveries . I do hope they place the order soon cause the next availabl
80 Post contains images SFORunner : Who said the UA KWI - SIN aircraft would have to turn around and fly back to KWI once it got to SIN? Maybe there is *another* UA 777 already at SIN t
81 Ualcsr : I know, but it's the only place, other than DOH, where I could see a tag. Without backtracking, I suppose BAH, AUH, SHJ and MCT could be candidates b
82 Jetdeltamsy : Incorrect. Aeroflot does not fly to Chicago...pax or cargo.
83 UAL777UK : When the likes of UA, AA and DL look to place big orders for the 787, don't be fooled to assume they will have to wait until 2014 before they get the
84 WorldTraveler : Bcause UAL agreed to a business plan coming out of BK that had no capital expenditures for aircraft and pretty minimal capex at all compared to other
85 LAXdude1023 : I agree. I think that a large part of the 787 will be replaceing certain 767 and 777 routes. People seem to think that the only thing that the 787 wi
86 Post contains links and images B6WNQX : You mean like this: Modified Airliner Photos:Design © Alexander Richardson/ arp designTemplate © Alexander Richardson/ arp design *from modified ai
87 Gigneil : Define large? You can run leisure fare sales and fill up a plane to Rome, yes. Milan is the more important market for US business travellers, and tha
88 RDUDDJI : I know for sure SK, OS, and LH utilize UA's Concourse C FIS for connections. I'm not sure, but I believe SA utilizes it now too. NH has been offered
89 UAL777UK : Noted, but if you read the full post thats not what I was answering was it!. No one more than me would like to see UA order some more 777's for long
90 Chugach : No offense, but the good folks at AS aren't banking on Hawaiians making their new HNL and LIH flights work. AS has stated time and time again that th
91 Johnnybgoode : there will be announcement soon, delivering some answers to the route and service quoted above. that would make no sense. for example, LH could opera
92 LH417AF025 : isn't that only on US/Germany routes? i find it hard to believe that they share revenue you on for eg IAD-KWI.
93 Glareskin : DUS is one of the largest metro areas in Europe. And don"t forget that UA has the LH partnership advantage. They could use DUS as a sub-hub. So compa
94 Laxintl : No. Under phase three of the UA-LH "Atlantic Alliance" the agreement which was initially signed back in 1993, covers all trans-atlantic flights with
95 LH417AF025 : oh ok. so therefore, if the flight stops in MUC or FRA and continues onto a third airport on LH metal.. does this mean that UA and LH still share the
96 Laxintl : Depends if the beyond destination is a code-share city/flight. Depends on how you define "stops" as that can change under what portion of the UA-LH a
97 Sshank : Lax, for example - would UA and LH share revenue on say the LH FRA-BOM flight or just on the seats that are booked with UA code? General speculation i
98 Laxintl : UA definately gets revenue slice on the FRA-BOM segment as their is a UA codeshare on the flight anyhow. But, as far as the Atlantic Alliance goes, I
99 Flyb : one of my contacts based in Chicago said that YEG should be seeing UA enter that market on the DEN ORD routes (currently operated by United Express).
100 Post contains images UnitedTristar : how many of these two cabins are in the fleet? according to airfleets they are all ER's but I want to say I read some where that they de-rated the tw
101 LH417AF025 : so lets just say that during bankruptcy this must have been a BIG help. LH never 'technically' gives money to alliance partners in time of need in the
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