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Frontier Adding MEM-FLL  
User currently offlineKingCavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1314 posts, RR: 17
Posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4728 times:

Frontier is breaking away from its business model in MEM. This just came out -

New non-stop Memphis – Ft. Lauderdale service will begin Nov. 15

By the end of the year, Frontier will have seven non-stop mainline flights to Memphis:

Sept. 6, 2007: Flights to and from Las Vegas increase to five days per week (includes a new daytime schedule)
Nov. 15, 2007: Daily service to and from Ft. Lauderdale begins, as does an additional, third flight to and from Denver
Dec. 15, 2007: A second flight is added to and from Orlando

Thank You Very Much................


Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3019 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4691 times:

Looks like F9 has found a little niche at MEM. Good for them, especially since WN and B6 have yet to enter the market.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4691 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 1):
Looks like F9 has found a little niche at MEM. Good for them, especially since WN and B6 have yet to enter the market.

Do they really want to piss off Northwest Airlines?

Remember what happened when F9 entered the LAX-MSP market?

-JD


User currently offlineRiddle274 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4629 times:

NW serves MEM-FLL daily during the summer and fall, and double daily from the holiday season through the spring. It will be interesting to see how they respond.

User currently offlineCitrusCritter From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1131 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4588 times:

I wonder if FL will add this? They countered F9's MEM-MCO route. This just proves the point I've made in other threads that MEM is underserved by LCCs (before F9 it was just FL to ATL) and that someone could find some room with just NW in the market to any signfiicant degree. FL deserves to get beat out for MEM having had so long to expand their offerings from there.

User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4580 times:

Very good news for MEM. Now MEM flyers actually have a quality carrier for nonstops to South Florida. NW can't touch them with a 10 foot pole in terms of service.

User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4516 times:

Quoting Riddle274 (Reply 3):
NW serves MEM-FLL daily during the summer and fall, and double daily from the holiday season through the spring. It will be interesting to see how they respond.

I am sensing DEN-LGA, DEN-MKE, DEN-BOS, DEN-MDW being introduced..

-JD


User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3019 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4468 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 2):
Do they really want to piss off Northwest Airlines?

Remember what happened when F9 entered the LAX-MSP market?

I remember hearing something along the lines of...if WN ever entered MEM, NW would retreat and scale back its operations.

In other words, MEM is not what DTW and MSP are to NW.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4030 posts, RR: 27
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4446 times:

How different is the service between NWA and Frontier on the FL routes from MEM? MSYtristar states "Now MEM flyers actually have a quality carrier for nonstops to South Florida. NW can't touch them with a 10 foot pole in terms of service." Since Frontier doesn't have a premium cabin, we'll compare the Y product.

NWA - Free drinks. $2 trail mix and pringles. Alcohol is $5.

Frontier - Free drinks. Alcohol is $5. IFE for a $5.

So you're telling me that Frontier has service leaps and bounds ahead of NWA? Looks like on NWA you can actually eat something if you want and there is a premium cabin to buy a ticket in or get upgraded to if you're a FFer. Geez, can't watch TV on a flight that BLOCKS no more than 2 hours, that really is a drag and makes Frontiers service unreachable with a 10 foot pole. Don't even argue that NWA has awful FAs... there are always a few bad eggs at every airline, including Frontier.

I fail to see the logic...


AZJ


User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3019 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4378 times:

Well, not to start a war here, but F9 wasn't the airline that was all over the headlines for canceling flights due to pilot shortages...

Back on topic. F9's new service is just another alternative to NW, which has had a monopoly on the route. Competition is good.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineMikeM2648 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4379 times:

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 8):
So you're telling me that Frontier has service leaps and bounds ahead of NWA?

Yup! Having flown both in the past few months there is no question. Frontier's aircraft have much more comfortable cabins. Their seats are more comfortable, offer winged headrests, and offer more legroom. The new leather seats are even better in that regard (lucked out on a A318 flight). On top of that Frontier's flight attendants are generally energetic, upbeat and funny. Northwest flight attendants (aside from the bad eggs) are fine but they don't seem nearly as enthusiastic about their jobs...that rubs off on the whole experience for the traveler IMHO.

-Mike

P.S. I'll be Silver Elite on Northwest this year ...I'm not an NW hater although my last experience was terrible having ended in an emergency landing. NW 619 Air Return / Emergency Landing July 22 (by MikeM2648 Jul 22 2007 in Trip Reports)


User currently offlineAlphascan From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 937 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4358 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 6):
I am sensing DEN-LGA, DEN-MKE, DEN-BOS, DEN-MDW being introduced..

If NW hardly responded to the introductions of, and then additional service to, MEM/MCO and MEM/LAS, why do you think they would go ballistic with money losing services over MEM/FLL?

They don't have the ability to fly DEN/LGA, its a restricted route. DEN/MKE and DEN/MDW would make NW the fourth and third carrier on those routes respectively with no hub at either end. DEN/BOS isn't even flown by F9.

1291 posts in three months (with time off for bad behavior) and counting.



"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4307 times:

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 5):
Now MEM flyers actually have a quality carrier for nonstops to South Florida

I don't see how Northwest won't respond. When American Eagle added a measly two daily ERJs to Miami two years ago, Northwest doubled MIA-MEM frequency.



a.
User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4300 times:

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 8):
So you're telling me that Frontier has service leaps and bounds ahead of NWA?

It absoultely is. Not even close. The seats are more comfortable, pitch is generally better, you have the option of IFE if that suits you, F/A's are generally friendlier, and if you fly F9, there's not a chance that you'll get a plane more than what....6 years old? F9 coach class is a much more enjoyable flying experience than NW coach is.


User currently offlineChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1619 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4280 times:

Quoting Alphascan (Reply 11):
They don't have the ability to fly DEN/LGA, its a restricted route

Is it restricted to just F9? I know there is a perimeter rule, but DEN is an exception.

M


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4273 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
I don't see how Northwest won't respond

Agreed, this is NW which is very territorial about its operations......this is NW, the airline that is launching LGA-DFW flights in response to AA opening a route from LGA to MSP. NW will do something, they always do.

Quoting Alphascan (Reply 11):
If NW hardly responded to the introductions of, and then additional service to, MEM/MCO and MEM/LAS, why do you think they would go ballistic with money losing services over MEM/FLL?

I guess because a pattern is developing, Frontier is slowly building its MEM operation and, at a certain point, NW will want to end this expansion. NW does not want or need significant competition at MEM.....the economics of NW's MEM hub are fragile enought and NW does not want to lose any of its limited O&D pax at MEM.

Quoting Alphascan (Reply 11):
They don't have the ability to fly DEN/LGA, its a restricted route.

How is this route restricted? NW is starting LGA-DFW (against AA no less), LGA-DEN could be next if NW wants to play games and teach "small but annoying" Frontier a lesson. Frontier is a good airline with a good product, and they have stepped on NW's toes a few times already, I fear that the NW-F9 wars are about to begin once again.


User currently offlineRiddle274 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4238 times:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Alphascan said DEN-LGA was restricted in reference to LGA being slot controlled, and NW not having an available slot to allow a DEN-LGA flight (or any additional flights to/from LGA in that case). NW started LGA-DFW because they had available LGA slots that were once used on the MKE-LGA flights when MKE was a focus city.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4198 times:

Quoting Riddle274 (Reply 16):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Alphascan said DEN-LGA was restricted in reference to LGA being slot controlled, and NW not having an available slot to allow a DEN-LGA flight (or any additional flights to/from LGA in that case). NW started LGA-DFW because they had available LGA slots that were once used on the MKE-LGA flights when MKE was a focus city.

NW could cancel one flight from LGA to DTW and one flight from LGA to MSP........and launch LGA-DEN if they were so inclined. Does it make sense, of course not, but does NW flying LGA to DFW make any sense?


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4155 times:

If this isnt a sure sign that the industry has too many planes, I dont know what is.

User currently offlineSPENCERII From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4113 times:

IM not sure, but I believe LaGuardia has the 1500 mile rule whereby flights cannot operate nonstop from the airport if they are more than 1500 miles from LaGuardia- exceptions are Sat & Sun and I also believe Denver is exempt from the perimeter rule.

User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4066 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
When American Eagle added a measly two daily ERJs to Miami two years ago, Northwest doubled MIA-MEM frequency.

I forgot about AA Eagle's service MEM-MIA....they do a decent job...I was really talkingabout NW mainline, and how it has really been reduced (quality wise) over the years.

I'm sure NW will bump up capacity to an extent....match fares....maybe offer double miles or something.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25703 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4066 times:
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Quoting SPENCERII (Reply 19):
I also believe Denver is exempt from the perimeter rule.

You are correct. When the perimeter rule was introduced, DEN was grandfathered in.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 15):
NW will do something, they always do.

I think you are right, they will do something. But - what?

The retaliation over Frontier's initial expansion at DEN faltered some. The 4th MEM-MCO was quickly reduced to week-ends only, and IND-DEN only lasted six weeks or so. People are now saying that IND-DEN was only ever to be seasonal, but I didn't see that in the announcement. In any case, why end it before the end of season?

There is always the possibility that NWA will play it's ace - invade DEN from somewhere else, or, most particularly, re-itnroduce DEN-LAX. But is MEM-FLL worth blowing your ace for?

The more interesting question for me is what Airtran might do? I never understood why they introduced MEM-MCO after Frontier - MEM is hardly a stronghold of theirs.

And I am not sure why Frontier is doing this - they have denied that they are building a focus city at MEM, and they must be ready for some NWA retaliation.

Is MEM such a prize?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFrontierflyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 216 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4035 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 15):

NW at DEN would be financial suicide. With thier old planes, cancellations, bitchy FA's and big bad UA, F9, WN no one is going to give them the time of day. NW should be glad WN hasnt invaded Memphis.


User currently offlineAirbusaddict From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 415 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4018 times:

Well Nw is pretty much thinking of MEM as a small hub. Everyone of course knows that Memphis is the smallest hub for Northwest. Is it me or is F9 gonna turn Memphis into a focus city? If they do, it would be great time to expand into the Upper Midwest of the country. Like routes that NW doesnt have, But I know if they turned MEM into a Focus City, that it wouldnt happen that quickly.


Finally F9! FSD-DEN 7-4-2011
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4435 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4010 times:
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Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 18):
If this isnt a sure sign that the industry has too many planes, I dont know what is.

How so? MEM is a very low LCC comeptition city and could use the lower fares.


25 Post contains images OB1504 : Is it really so horrible to be "forced" to buy something in the terminal before boarding? And besides, does a premium cabin really make that much of
26 Frontierflyer : Those NW seats look like they have black mold on them.
27 Airbusaddict : Frontiers look like an older style. I still like NWs cabin better, although F9's cabin has bigger headrests cuz the TV's.
28 FLYGUY767 : Two others have asked and now I must ask.. How is Denver to La Guardia restricted? -JD
29 Airbusaddict : Im totally surprised Frontier hasnt started E170 service to FSD. United is gonna start using 733 and 735 to FSD from DEN for a trial period for 6 mont
30 KingCavalier : Don't know if you'd call MEM a focus city yet by major carrier standards. For Frontier, though, it "looks" like a focus city. It appears Frontier is
31 COERJ145 : LGA is slot restricted.NW used their slots from the former LGA-MKE route. They'd have to drop a flight in order to add a new one. Speaking of which,
32 Dutchjet : I know...... Its not.....simply the slot issue at LGA.
33 FreequentFlier : Interesting to see NW face some real LCC competition at one of its hubs finally. Outside of a few NK and WN routes to DTW, its almost non-existent.
34 Mariner : Oops. That should read: "The retaliation over Frontier's initial expamsion at MEM faltered some." My bad. mariner
35 RedTailDTW : JetBluefan has a good point. NW defends their hub's but MEM is not as important to NW as DTW and MSP are. That's why we are not seeing much of a batt
36 Frontierflyer : NW is uinque among legacy carriers, imune to LCC at MSP, MEM unlike UA where all their hubs are under assualt. You think they where in better shape t
37 Indy : I know when they first loaded the route it was loaded as year round. Then they changed it to seasonal. Not sure when the scheduled it to end. I'm thi
38 OB1504 : The way I see it, UA having all of their hubs under assault serves as a motivation to raise their service standards and lower their fares, benefittin
39 SkyyMaster : Are F9's LAS and MCO routes out of MEM actually making any money? Seems every so often they get a wild hair to add non-traditional routes to their net
40 Post contains images SW733 : ...come on, everyone knows that just because things may look equal on paper doesn't mean they are equal. You can't just comapre food and alcohol. Lik
41 Sampa737 : Is UA back to mainline in MEM? I thought mainline pulled out several years ago.
42 Yyz717 : Agree, but the problem is that F9 is extremely, indeed dangerously, over-reliant on the DEN market. So F9 really has no choice to branch away from DE
43 Frontierflyer : I think its DO OR DIE for F9. Hubbing in MEM or some other southern city will help out especially during a winter storm at DEN. Its sad to see that UA
44 SkyyMaster : You're right, my bad. I thought I had read that they too were going mainline on the route to counter F9. I stand corrected.
45 Airbusaddict : Two days before F9 was to announce the first four new routes on the Dash-400, United decided to bring back Mainline to FSD (sioux falls, sd) with two
46 Sampa737 : No biggee. I just wish UA would bring back mainline to MEM. Yet it's good to have UA in the city. I do wish Frontier the best but I still scratch my
47 SkyyMaster : Several years ago, a friend of mine worked for UA and told me that when they were scaling back mainline, both BNA and MEM were not actually slated to
48 Flydl2atl : Any thoughts about F9 adding destinations out of ATL...they could rely on the Airtran marketing aggreement to help fill the planes. It seems that BDL,
49 Lexy : Amen to that brother. I get tired, no SICK and TIRED, of seeing their CRJ's here at BNA. Between them and the fifty-thousand flights on Continental's
50 Burnsie28 : And NW is about 100x bigger than F9. I wouldn't say that since i still find lower fares on NW to places i want to go which also have LCC competition.
51 CitrusCritter : Give me a break. None of those are serious competitors to NW or hold any significant market share. We're talking B6 at JFK, FL at ATL, WN at MDW/HOU/
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