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Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s  
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5046 times:

How does Air Berlin use their 737s and A320s ? Do the aircraft have different routes and roles or can it be that a route primarly served by a 737 can be an A320 the next day ?


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4813 times:

Nobody ?
Anyway I have a some more questions regarding AB´s fleet: Are there any plans to retire the F100s ? If yes, will they be replaced with the 737-700s on order.
I also always forget AB´s customer code with Boeing. Is it 6Q ?



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineJoelatbsl From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 158 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4798 times:

AB's customer code is 6J, so most of their B737s are either 86J or 76J, where as leased and inherited planes may carry different codes. Also their 400s were 46J.

IIRC AB's F100s are to be replaced by B737-700s which were ordered by DBA before Air Berlin took them over.

Cheers

JOEL


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4788 times:

Quoting Joelatbsl (Reply 2):
AB's customer code is 6J, so most of their B737s are either 86J or 76J, where as leased and inherited planes may carry different codes. Also their 400s were 46J.

IIRC AB's F100s are to be replaced by B737-700s which were ordered by DBA before Air Berlin took them over.

Thanks



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4768 times:

Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
How does Air Berlin use their 737s and A320s ? Do the aircraft have different routes and roles or can it be that a route primarly served by a 737 can be an A320 the next day ?

When they started with A320 at first they could only be seen at the larger hubs, such as TXL, DUS, NUE etc ... now they can be seen virtually everywhere. They have now about 25 buses and it would make planning (especially the tail numbering process) extremely hard, I think it is not further practical to limit their use to certain airports ..

Quoting Columba (Reply 1):
I also always forget AB´s customer code with Boeing. Is it 6Q ?

6J IIRC

Quoting Columba (Reply 1):
Anyway I have a some more questions regarding AB´s fleet: Are there any plans to retire the F100s ? If yes, will they be replaced with the 737-700s on order.

AB really depend on those 100seaters, they make many of the domestic viable in the first place. Also at smaller airports like PAD you can see them quite often. Further more they are leased, so AB is bound to the leasing contracts with its decision.

The new B73Gs will replace the B733s in the first place (as orginally intended by DBA from whom they inherited that order). The ordered B738s will replace leased B738s and A320S will be used for expansion and will also replace some of the older Boeings. I don't know about the B735 odd bird. It's also leased ... .

AB is going to move away from the leasing a bit in order to strengthen their equity base. As a public aviation company you really depend on your credit rating.

[Edited 2007-08-11 16:31:58]

User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4635 times:

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 4):
When they started with A320 at first they could only be seen at the larger hubs, such as TXL, DUS, NUE etc ... now they can be seen virtually everywhere. They have now about 25 buses and it would make planning (especially the tail numbering process) extremely hard, I think it is not further practical to limit their use to certain airports ..

Thanks for your answer. Informative as always. My idea behind this thread was the different roles of the 737 and A320 fleet. I was wondering if they are used differently. So far I have not seen the A320 on "classic" leisure flights but only 737s so I was wondering if the A320 is only used on city flights.

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 4):
AB really depend on those 100seaters, they make many of the domestic viable in the first place. Also at smaller airports like PAD you can see them quite often. Further more they are leased, so AB is bound to the leasing contracts with its decision.

But since these F100s are leased from Germania they practically belong to the company since Hunold is involved there, too. When will the leasing contracts run out ? I believe the F100s are also not the youngest.
I can not imagine that with all these A32x, 737s and 787s on order AB will order or lease E-Jets, Suckhois Superjets, Bombardiers to replace the F100s that would be simply too much.

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 4):
I don't know about the B735 odd bird. It's also leased ... .

If you mean the former DBA 735 that was leased. I don´t know of any other 737-500s in ABs fleet. Is it already painted in AB colors ?



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4609 times:
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Quoting Columba (Reply 1):
Are there any plans to retire the F100s ?

I don't know the answer to your question but in the last weeks, AB used to fly the 100 equipment from PMI to little spanish airports such as MJV, XRY, OVD and other points in the Iberic Peninsula.

Regards,

Gerard



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4536 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 5):

But since these F100s are leased from Germania they practically belong to the company since Hunold is involved there, too.

That story is actually quite interesting. Hunold (AB CEO) and Hinrich Bischoff (former Germania Boss) did not really like each other over years. About a year before Hinrich died in 2005, Hunold and Hinrich became friends and at the time he died Hunold had to promise him to take care of his company. At this time AB had already leased some F100 from Germania and Germania had sold their entire flight operations to DBA. Later on Hunold proposed to the community of heirs to bind Germania to AB by a management contract, but heirs decided against the last will of Hinrich and for Germania to remain independent. Thus the involvment of Hunold never materialized.

Quoting Columba (Reply 5):
When will the leasing contracts run out ?

I don't know, but I don't think that will be more than one or two years. Considering that those machines don't become younger Germania will be quite flexible with regard to a new contract or the extension of the existing ones ... Germania bought those F100s out of the desert for very very little money (rumors were 1Mil$ a piece w/o "post-desert-overhaul")

Quoting Columba (Reply 5):
I believe the F100s are also not the youngest.

The have been build between 1989 and 1992.

Quoting Columba (Reply 5):
I believe the F100s are also not the youngest.
I can not imagine that with all these A32x, 737s and 787s on order AB will order or lease E-Jets, Suckhois Superjets, Bombardiers to replace the F100s that would be simply too much.

Me neither and due to Germania not having paid much for them there is a big chance that leasing rates are low enough to compensate for higher fuel burn etc.

Quoting Columba (Reply 5):
Is it already painted in AB colors ?

yes


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Photo © Klaus Ecker



User currently offlineXtra1 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 111 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4481 times:

There is a good site for Air Berlin info; its at :-
http://www.jet737.de/


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4444 times:

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 7):
Is it already painted in AB colors ?

yes

Nice, somehow I like stubby look of the -500  Wink

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 7):
Me neither and due to Germania not having paid much for them there is a big chance that leasing rates are low enough to compensate for higher fuel burn etc.

Still they can not fly them forever. They will either go without a real replacement which means A319s and 737-700s will be used instead or in about 5 years AB will either lease or buy some regional aircraft.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineJoelatbsl From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 158 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4383 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 5):
My idea behind this thread was the different roles of the 737 and A320 fleet. I was wondering if they are used differently. So far I have not seen the A320 on "classic" leisure flights but only 737s so I was wondering if the A320 is only used on city flights.

They actually also get used to pure leisure destinations, even to the Canary Islands. Today's ZRH ops for instance featured A320s operating to Lanzarote, Gran Canaria and Alicante as well as Alicante. An A319 was operating a flight to Fuerteventura.

My personal hope is that their BSL ops (starting in November) will also bring us a certain mix and not just the yet planned A320s. Does anyone know if flights to Egypt also get flown by A320s?

Cheers

JOEL


User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 42
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4185 times:

There is an A320 focus on city shuttle fights because of the slightly lower capacity of these aircraft vs. the B738 (174:186 seats) and performance issues of the A320 on longer flights expecially from airports with short runways.


Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineEgmcman From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 898 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4130 times:

The F100's are used regularly on STN services as 737-700's & 800's occasionally they get the Airbuses.

User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4071 times:

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 11):
There is an A320 focus on city shuttle fights because of the slightly lower capacity of these aircraft vs. the B738 (174:186 seats) and performance issues of the A320 on longer flights expecially from airports with short runways.

That is what I was thinking.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 42
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4037 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 5):
So far I have not seen the A320 on "classic" leisure flights but only 737s so I was wondering if the A320 is only used on city flights.

A320's are frequently used to the usual destinations around the Mediteranean. Just check the departure/arrival-information on airberlin.com and you'll see that the Airbus is seen just a frequently as the B737 on these short- to medium haul routes.



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineTS-IOR From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 3466 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3874 times:

For example, neither Airbuses nor B737-700s are scheduled to operate AB flights to Tunisia ! Only the 738s are ! Of course, exceptions could happen from time to time...

User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3834 times:

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 15):
either Airbuses nor B737-700s are scheduled to operate AB flights to Tunisia ! Only the 738s are ! Of course, exceptions could happen from time to time...

That makes think of another question:
How are the 737-700s and A319s used in comparision to its larger sisters?



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineTS-IOR From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 3466 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3757 times:

I think :

F-100 : secondary airports domestic network, B733/737/A319 domestic and international shuttles, A320/B738 hubbing, B738 charters !

This is not too much realistic, but it could be a summary of the AB fleet dispatch !

German A.Netters are welcome to correct my mistakes...  Wink


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3746 times:

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 17):
F-100 : secondary airports domestic network, B733/737/A319 domestic and international shuttles, A320/B738 hubbing, B738 charters !

That would make sense. Would be interesting to know if A319s and 737-700s are occasionally used for charters as well.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineJdevora From Spain, joined Aug 2006, 352 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3597 times:

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 11):
There is an A320 focus on city shuttle fights because of the slightly lower capacity of these aircraft vs. the B738 (174:186 seats) and performance issues of the A320 on longer flights expecially from airports with short runways.

Is this really an issue for intra-european flights?

I just checked http://www.airberlin.com and the flight HG5166 from Viena to Arrecife (Lanzarote) (around 4 hours) is served by an A321 that AFAIK has less range than an A320.

Cheers
JD


User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3485 times:

Quoting Jdevora (Reply 19):
I just checked http://www.airberlin.com and the flight HG5166 from Viena to Arrecife (Lanzarote) (around 4 hours) is served by an A321 that AFAIK has less range than an A320.

That is a FlyNiki flight. They simply don't have B737s. I think what TriStar500 refered to are flights like PAD-HRG. Such flights have more than 5hours and PAD only has about 7150ft (2180m) of runway. That's where B738s are clearly better than A320/A321.


User currently offlineAirbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4268 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3404 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 18):
Would be interesting to know if A319s and 737-700s are occasionally used for charters as well.

If we might consider AMS-PMI as a 'charter', we saw the A320 for months on the route, then it changed to B737-700 and B737-800, and nowadays it's all -800 on this route.

RMI-AMS sees the B733 usually, but also the A319 has been seen here.



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineEIDAA From Ireland, joined Oct 2006, 829 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3374 times:
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Quoting Columba (Reply 5):
If you mean the former DBA 735 that was leased. I don´t know of any other 737-500s in ABs fleet. Is it already painted in AB colors ?

I believe that is leaving the fleet in the coming months as the lease expires.

Regarding the operations, I have for example seen A320s, -800s and -700s at MJV. They seem to vary the equipment on that route, but I don't really know about the trunk routes in and out of PMI.



Most Flown:- G-BUVA (20 Flights), EI-DEB (12 Flights), EI-JFK (11 Flights)
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 42
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3345 times:

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 20):
That is a FlyNiki flight. They simply don't have B737s. I think what TriStar500 refered to are flights like PAD-HRG. Such flights have more than 5hours and PAD only has about 7150ft (2180m) of runway. That's where B738s are clearly better than A320/A321.

Exactly.  Smile



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3281 times:

Quoting EIDAA (Reply 22):
I believe that is leaving the fleet in the coming months as the lease expires.

That would be really a waste to paint the aircraft in full AB colors if it is going to leave the fleet anyway !!



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
25 Acelanzarote : The Air Berlin flight from ZRH to ACE was a A319 for a long time before upgrading to a A320 I guess due to good bookings, Air Berlin have been sendin
26 F.pier : In BGY they use all kind of equipment. Last month I flew to TXL and I hoped to take the 319/320, but unfortunately I took the 733 going and coming bac
27 PADSpot : The enormous type variety they currently have might be bad for mx costs, training etc, but it is certainly great to drive load factors to new heights
28 Jdevora : Ok, today's AB5170 Hamburg-Fuerteventura (around 4:20 hours) and Nuremberg -Fuerteventura (around 5:00 hours) where operated by two Air Berlin A320 (
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