Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 61 Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1472 times:
CO applied to serve Malaga and Palma de Mallorca (I believe that the old US-Spain bi-lateral permitted service between US and 4 Spanish cities....Madrid and Barcelona, of course, plus Malaga and Palma...I assume US/EU open skies will change all of this, but I am getting off topic.) EWR-AGP was an odd choice for CO, its more of a leisure route than a business route, but it could probably work with a 752 (atleast during the summer).....loads would not be a problem, yields would be a concern. As for Palma, no one understood that one, while Palma is a huge vacation/second home destination for Europeans, its not very popular or well known with Americans.
Some thought that CO would launch limited scheduled service in connection with one of the major cruise lines basing ships at either one or both of these destinations......CO would get a major contract to move the pax from the US to/from Malaga and Palma, and CO could sell the balance of the seats (and the bizfirst cabin) on its own.
To make a long story short, nothing materialized. But, this year, CO only added ATH to its list of European destinations and, instead of adding more cities, CO added additional frequencies on several EWR-Europe routes. CO will open more routes to more European cities for the Summer 2008 schedule (739ER deliveries will allow CO to free up additional 752s for EWR-Europe service) and some think that Malaga may be announced as a new destination (I honestly dont know).....other cities that are being mentioned for new CO service include NCL (yes, again its being discussed), STR, HEL, NCE, BOD, the return to MUC, Moscow (dont know which airport...both have been discussed), and some others. Time will tell.
Osprey88 From United States, joined Jul 2007, 314 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1444 times:
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 1): other cities that are being mentioned for new CO service include NCL (yes, again its being discussed), STR, HEL, NCE, BOD, the return to MUC, Moscow (dont know which airport...both have been discussed), and some others. Time will tell.
I think CO's next move is probably to VCE or MUC, maybe AGP later as more 752s are freed up.
"Reading departure signs in some big airports reminds me of the places I've been"-Jimmy Buffet
DLBOIFIN From Finland, joined Jun 2006, 97 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1399 times:
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 1): other cities that are being mentioned for new CO service include NCL (yes, again its being discussed), STR, HEL, NCE, BOD, the return to MUC, Moscow (dont know which airport...both have been discussed), and some others. Time will tell.
As I have written in several other threads, I think HEL would be an obvious choice for some US carrier as there isn't any US carriers operating yet. I actually think that HEL is the last major (old) EU capital without any US flag carriers. And since 75% of HEL-USA market is flying through the European gateways, it should be possible to capture that market.
UPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 988 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1351 times:
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 1): EWR-AGP was an odd choice for CO, its more of a leisure route than a business route, but it could probably work with a 752 (atleast during the summer).....
Not sure whether it's good time to launch leisure routes from the US to EU with the current EUR-USD rate,
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 61 Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1337 times:
Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 4): Not sure whether it's good time to launch leisure routes from the US to EU with the current EUR-USD rate,
Aah, but it goes both ways, there are also lots of Europeans headed to the US due to the cheap dollar and the bargains to be had.
The strong Euro/weak Dollar situation does not seem to have impacted travel in a big way.....there seems to be lots and lots of Americans headed to Europe this summer; flights are filled, hotels are booked and its nearly impossible to find a cabin on any of those huge cruise ships operating in the Med and to the Scandinavian countries.
UPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 988 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1321 times:
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5): Aah, but it goes both ways, there are also lots of Europeans headed to the US due to the cheap dollar and the bargains to be had
You're right, but when you think of a US carrier launching something like EWR-AGP or EWR-PMI is not to focus on atracting spaniards willing to go to US for vacation, except from locals every other spaniard will connect thru MAD or BCN where the options are much wider.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 61 Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1282 times:
Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 6): You're right, but when you think of a US carrier launching something like EWR-AGP or EWR-PMI is not to focus on atracting spaniards willing to go to US for vacation, except from locals every other spaniard will connect thru MAD or BCN where the options are much wider.
I am not so sure that I agree, CO would certainly go after the ""local crowd"" that resides in the Malaga....as I am sure you know, there is a rather affluent Spanish/ex-pat community in the Malaga/Marbella area that could be very interested in a nonstop connection from Malaga Airport to the US. Lots of CO's routes to smaller cities (think HAM, CGN, BRS, BFS) have been extremely popular with the local market, and many times Europeans (and not Americans) dominate the pax load on CO flights headed to EWR. You just dont know how this would work out.
As for PMI, I really dont know.....as I said above, I never really understood what CO had in mind (nor could friends at CO understand it either) but it could have something to do with cruise ships.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 1869 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1282 times:
Nonstop transit between AGP and North America and vice versa is not extended yet except Air Transat from Canada (TS) flying YUL-AGP. Is it a summer seasonal service?
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 61 Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1271 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 9): Nonstop transit between AGP and North America and vice versa is not extended yet except Air Transat from Canada (TS) flying YUL-AGP. Is it a summer seasonal service?
I do believe that the Air Transat service to Malaga is seasonal.
------------------
Most here at a.net are too young to remember Iberia flying 747s and DC10s nonstop between JFK and Malaga in the 1970s.
STT757 From United States, joined Mar 2000, 12161 posts, RR: 55 Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1207 times:
CO and Air Europa have a code share agreement to Malaga and Palma de Mallorca, perhaps they are looking to expand this either by CO or Air Europa flying nonstop from EWR. Air Europa used to fly to EWR in the early-mid 1990s.
"'Brown Sugar' could save the world..." Eddie Vedder 10/14/97 Oakland, California
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 61 Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1194 times:
Quoting Iluv747400 (Reply 11): No service to/from Luxembourg at the moment - they're an original EU capital!
And thats because there is no market to support flights between US and Luxembourg.......remember the LuxAir/CityBird experiment of about 6 or 7 years ago: 3 times per week 763ER service nonstop EWR-LUX. The route lasted less than one summer (at a certain point, the flights were cancelled) and there were many many days when there were less than 40 pax on the airplane.....the market just is not there.
Do note that if you need to fly to/from LUX and purchase a BF ticket, CO will happily send a limo from BRU to pick you up and drop you off in LUX.
UPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 988 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1115 times:
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 8): I am not so sure that I agree, CO would certainly go after the ""local crowd"" that resides in the Malaga....as I am sure you know, there is a rather affluent Spanish/ex-pat community in the Malaga/Marbella area that could be very interested in a nonstop connection from Malaga Airport to the US
Your analysis might be right, although I'd have to say that it can be applied to several cities around Spain, for example I live in Valencia and travel 4-6 times a year to US so I'd be very interested on a nonstop to US from VLC, same can be said from Alicante, Bilbao, etc........there are a lot of wealthy people on these cities (as there are in Malaga) and also much more business traffic than in Malaga.
Other point to consider is the fact that US cariers (DL/CO/US) have had hard times trying to substain year-round non-stop service from NYC to BCN, which is a much much much bigger market than AGP
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 61 Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1079 times:
Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 15): Your analysis might be right, although I'd have to say that it can be applied to several cities around Spain, for example I live in Valencia and travel 4-6 times a year to US so I'd be very interested on a nonstop to US from VLC, same can be said from Alicante, Bilbao, etc........there are a lot of wealthy people on these cities (as there are in Malaga) and also much more business traffic than in Malaga
It will be interesting to see if CO expands its service to/from Spain....as I mentioned above, there was some provision in the US/Spain bi-lateral that limited service to the 4 airports (MAD, BCN,AGP,PMI) (I am not clearly not the expert in these matters......if someone knows more, by all means, jump right in) and when CO made the surprising AGP/PMI application some experts thought it had something to do with CO having the ability to fly to the 4 permitted cities.....with EU/US open skies, this is all history. And, as pointed out by STT757 above, some thought that the application was in some way connected to CO's relationship with Air Europa. Plus, there was the cruise ship rumor that I mentioned. Who really knows?
AGP is interesting because it works both as an origination city and a destination city, so time will tell....so far, CO has not made its move with respect to Spain.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 1869 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 941 times:
Quoting STT757 (Reply 12): CO and Air Europa have a code share agreement to Malaga and Palma de Mallorca
That means:
1. CO (EWR-MAD) then UX (MAD-PMI)
2. CO (EWR-MAD) then UX (MAD-AGP)
3. CO (EWR-CDG) then UX (CDG-AGP)
3. CO (EWR-BCN) then UX (BCN-PMI)
Other combinations are available in Sky Team network...
.
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 8): ...as I am sure you know, there is a rather affluent Spanish/ex-pat community in the Malaga/Marbella area that could be very interested in a nonstop connection from Malaga Airport to the US
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5): there seems to be lots and lots of Americans headed to Europe this summer; flights are filled, hotels are booked and its nearly impossible to find a cabin on any of those huge cruise ships operating in the Med and to the Scandinavian countries.
These points above could justify a possible nonstop EWR-AGP as origin / destination cities.
Sky Team passengers apparently looked well transferred through CO-UX in such routes.
Regards.
FLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 691 times:
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 1): EWR-AGP was an odd choice for CO, its more of a leisure route than a business route, but it could probably work with a 752 (atleast during the summer).....loads would not be a problem, yields would be a concern. As for Palma, no one understood that one, while Palma is a huge vacation/second home destination for Europeans, its not very popular or well known with Americans.
There would be no problem if this route were to be flown on a split schedule such as:
EWR-AGP 4x
EWR-PMI 3x
The routes could easily be flown with New York Metro O&D using a 757-200, it is very popular with the wealthier American tourist heading to Europe in the Summer. Of which the New York Metro has the most of..
Quoting Osprey88 (Reply 2): I think CO's next move is probably to VCE or MUC, maybe AGP later as more 752s are freed up.
VCE.. Rumored.. 767-200
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 16): It will be interesting to see if CO expands its service to/from Spain....as I mentioned above, there was some provision in the US/Spain bi-lateral that limited service to the 4 airports (MAD, BCN,AGP,PMI) (I am not clearly not the expert in these matters......
I would have thought that as a year-round market Sevilla would be a much better option..
Aisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 744 posts, RR: 16 Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 635 times:
Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 15): Other point to consider is the fact that US cariers (DL/CO/US) have had hard times trying to substain year-round non-stop service from NYC to BCN, which is a much much much bigger market than AGP
That's right. But you also have to consider that BCN-US is served by CO (EWR) US (PHL) DL (JFK and ATL) and CO would be the only carrier operating a US route from AGP.
Also AGP and BCN aren't that comparable. BCN-MAD-US on Iberia are currently sold as direct with the same fares than MAD-US nonstop flights and BCN is VERY well connected to great European hubs (CDG LHR FRA AMS) so it's been relatively easy for European carriers to "take away" those passengers who would be flying with US carriers form BCN.
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