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International Flights Halted At LAX  
User currently offlineGreg3322 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 203 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15000 times:

Looks like a imagration computer problem.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=local&id=5561125

88 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14918 times:

CBP computers at TBIT have been down for about 4 hours.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14884 times:

Based on all the uproar about passengers being stranded on aircraft, these flights would be required to return to the gate and allow the passengers to deplane. Just a perfect example of how the proposals to protect passengers not only is unworkable but that the government - who would be requiring actions from the airlines - is actually a cause of the airlines' problems.

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11121 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14806 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):
Based on all the uproar about passengers being stranded on aircraft, these flights would be required to return to the gate and allow the passengers to deplane. Just a perfect example of how the proposals to protect passengers not only is unworkable but that the government - who would be requiring actions from the airlines - is actually a cause of the airlines' problems.

Well, it doesn't happen often, but of course I agree with you completely.

More often than not, not just in the airline industry but with most things in life, the government is the cause of our problems, not the solution, but once people get hit by the full effects of the government's ineptitude and bureaucracy, the government (i.e., politicians, bureaucrats, and talking heads) immediately try and shift the blame to the easiest possible target -- business (read: airlines, oil companies, fast food restaurants, etc.) -- to divert attention from them. Sadly, also more often than not, it usually works.


User currently offlineAA61Hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14792 times:

Just heard on the news some INT flights are being diverted to ONT and LAS


Go big or go home
User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14708 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):
Based on all the uproar about passengers being stranded on aircraft, these flights would be required to return to the gate and allow the passengers to deplane. Just a perfect example of how the proposals to protect passengers not only is unworkable but that the government - who would be requiring actions from the airlines - is actually a cause of the airlines' problems

100% Agreed

The failures within the US civil aviation continue to scream out loud..

Not to discount it, but thankfully this wasnt at JFK at 2pm..

-JD


User currently offlineGreg3322 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14689 times:

Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 4):
Just heard on the news some INT flights are being diverted to ONT and LAS

Nothing obvious on Flightaware... yet.

Greg


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14672 times:

Flight are being processed according to fall back procedures at TBIT and other terminals, however there are dozens of planes at the remote gates waiting to be allowed to deplane and be processed.

From what I understand no diversions yet, however Mexicana will be shifting 4 flights this evening to ONT.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAR326 From Argentina, joined Jul 2007, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14657 times:

This happened to me once at JFK arriving from MEX on the 10:45 p.m. AM flight. Computers were down for close to two hours. Definitely, not a pleasant situation. Immigration officers were quite upset as well as their shift ended at midnight and they had to stay until system was back up and running and all passengers were processed.

User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14622 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):
Based on all the uproar about passengers being stranded on aircraft, these flights would be required to return to the gate and allow the passengers to deplane.

I think the problem, though, is that these are inbound international flights, meaning that they can't be 'released' on to US soil until CBP has processed them -- so the gate that they would 'return to' is either their country of origin or another airport with immigration services (such as ONT or LAS, where aircraft in the air were being diverted) and not as simple as just pulling a jetway up to the plane.

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineBoeingfanyyz From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 991 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14569 times:

After a rough week or so in the Northeast delay-wise, I guess it's only fitting that LAX has their fair share of problems!  wink 

Cheers,
Boeingfanyyz  airplane 



"If it aint boeing, it aint going!", "Friends are like condoms...they protect you when things get hard!"
User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1322 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14535 times:

I just spoke with my bf about 1 hour ago (he works for Air France at LAX) and they had a 772 sitting at the gate that arrived at 1600...and by 1930 the pax were still on board. To add to the complexity, their next flight from CDG, 73 (a 773), arrived at 1900, as did their flt from PPT (an A343). All told, as of 1930 PST all 3 planes had not been able to disembark, and in the queue were a Virgin A346 and an ANZ 744 (all residents of T2). He doesn't know the status at TBIT, but they were told by airport officials that it was a nationwide crash that took down most systems. At T2, only 4 computers were able to log back in, but they can only process passports by logging in to the internet (no fingerprints were being taken, and/or pictures per the new regulations). Again, he only knows about the situation at T2-LAX, so other terminals within LAX and other airports might have better connectivity at this time (or working back-up systems). They don't know when the system will be back on.

I understand that we need security, but why depend on a decades old computer system that crash at any time? It's inexcusable.

Charles


User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14401 times:

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 11):
I understand that we need security, but why depend on a decades old computer system that crash at any time? It's inexcusable.

The FAA asks the same thing...

sad to hear for those folks, but the government is ages behind pvt enterprise in almost every technology except Defence... there just now working to move to a unified network across branches...



Why do I fly???
User currently offlineMark5388916 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14022 times:

I just started a thread in hopes for a list of diverts to ONT. Hope no one minds the double thread. So if anyone has divert info, please head that way.

Mark



I Love ONT and SNA, the good So Cal Airports! URL Removed as required by mod
User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14015 times:

AS225 CUN-LAX diverted to SAN to clear formalities before re-boarding and continuing to LAX (and SEA)...quite the mess tonight.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineReality From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13992 times:

Any updates as to what is going on with the computer system at LAX. Up and running yet?

User currently offlineMark5388916 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13969 times:

NBC 4 says it was fully operational at 21:00 local, but it sounds like there is a HUGE backlog of people to get though.

Mark



I Love ONT and SNA, the good So Cal Airports! URL Removed as required by mod
User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1322 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13903 times:

Update from nbc:

http://www.knbc.com/news/13873627/detail.html

According to the report, 2 dozen A/C are waiting to offload close to 6000 pax. My bf was told that the actual list of planes is 27, and the computers are not back up 100%. Now it looks like the glitch wasn't nationwide as the officials first told the airlines at LAX, but rather a local problem (otherwise what would have been the point on diverting flights). Guess it's going to be a loooooong night!

Quoting TKV (Reply 16):
I really do not understand these complaints about the government. Are computer breakdown not happening to private companies ?? I remember that year ago, the entire internet system of the NE broke down because of a ATT failure !! And anyway, how many such immigration system breakdowns happened in say the last 10 years ??

And who should monitor immigration ?? Private companies ??

Of course computer breakdowns happen to everybody, but my complaint has to do with both the age of the network used by immigration and the overwhelming tasks that the government expects to accomplish with antiquated equipment. The Air France crew at LAX has to deal with delays at least twice a month because the immigration system is down and they can't process their passengers ( a real issue on their PPT-CDG transit flight). I'm not asking for perfection, but if the government insists on these regulations then the least it could do is upgrade the system so that in can cope with the workload. I think that's a fair thing to ask.

Cheers!

Charles


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12420 posts, RR: 100
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13872 times:
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It took them six hours to start processing passports manually per the local TV news. True? False?

I swear LAX exits to make third world airports look good... my hometown airport... I love aviation... but this is horrid.

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlineMark5388916 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13860 times:

I was returning from LHR on BA 268 back on January first, the whole lower level of TBIT is HORRIBLE! It just looks so old and run down. Maybe I've been spoiled with SNA and ONT, but TBIT is slow and ugly on a good day, today must be REALLY BAD!

Mark

[Edited 2007-08-12 08:08:05]


I Love ONT and SNA, the good So Cal Airports! URL Removed as required by mod
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21416 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13755 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):
Based on all the uproar about passengers being stranded on aircraft, these flights would be required to return to the gate and allow the passengers to deplane. Just a perfect example of how the proposals to protect passengers not only is unworkable but that the government - who would be requiring actions from the airlines - is actually a cause of the airlines' problems.

It's not the same situation at all. Nor is this the cause of "all the airlines' problems." This is a big one day event.

The continued uproar is due to sitting due to weather delays, waiting to depart an airport when there's no chance of leaving, or waiting out a mechanical delay while an airline repairs a plane for hours.

Today is a very different issue, a legal and immigration issue, involving people waiting to enter/re-enter the USA, and the idea of "offloading them" is unworkable because there are such things as fire codes, and it sounds as if the terminals were to capacity. The flights that could deplane had done so. The others had to stay on the plane because there was simply no room in the terminals in the sterile "pre-clearance" area, and there is no way to open that space up to a larger area.

The proper thing to do was being done when possible: diverting planes to other airports that can handle customs, then putting people back on the plane to arrive at LAX as a "domestic" flight. Along with this, they got the backup system running, but it isn't as powerful as the main one. That seems to be the weak link in the system.

It points out that there should be a fully capable redundant system in place, not a half capable one.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineTKV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13745 times:

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 17):
Of course computer breakdowns happen to everybody, but my complaint has to do with both the age of the network used by immigration and the overwhelming tasks that the government expects to accomplish with antiquated equipment
-------
I'm not asking for perfection, but if the government insists on these regulations then the least it could do is upgrade the system so that in can cope with the workload. I think that's a fair thing to ask.

What you say sounds reasonable. Only:

- The regulations do not exist because the government insists, but because unfortunately they are necessary.
- to modernize the system would cost a lot, and of course the airlines first and the pax ipso facto would pay the bill. To say the "government shall pay" is to ignore where the money would come from !
- I am not sure if the very large but few scale breakdowns happen because the equipments are in bad condition, which would be concerning. The sole fact that they are outdated does not imply that they are prone to fail
- In the real world, if money is scarce, anybody ceases to be up-to-date, in first place the private US legacy airlines flying outdated aircrafts as the MD8X's !
- And also this question must be answered: is it preferible for the pax that such incidents as today's occur sporadically, or it is to pay a surcharge for all flights to modernize the equipment now !!?

TKV


User currently offlineGreg3322 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13721 times:

Local Los Angeles media just reported that the system is up, but still at limited capacity. The media stated there were 8,000 people waiting to be processed, but they can only do 1,300 per hour! It will be along night!.

Greg


User currently offlineADXMatt From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 947 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13672 times:

Here is a copy of the latest ATC advisory to all airlines.


ATCSCC ADVZY 004 DCC 08/12/07 Los Angeles International Airport LAX update

Computer Issues are still resulting in a backlog for processing international arrivals at LAX.
DCC has bean advised that customs services are available at both ONT and SFO to assist in the processing of international arrivals. expect further updates as appropriate.

120700-121200


User currently offlineAA61Hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 13559 times:

I was driving home from In N Out tonight, on Westchester Pkwy at 12:15am, remote terminals were filled-I'd never seen so many planes parked over there before..A real sight to see.


Go big or go home
25 Post contains images Warszawa : A friend of mine's grandmother was onboard either an Asiana 772 or Korean Air 744 from Seoul, he was at the airport for 3hrs already (7pm loca) when t
26 LHRBlueSkies : Hmmm, suddenly makes the immigration queues at LHR seem quick!! And I really feel sorry for the CBP staff actually having to work for their money...st
27 Folov : Just got back home after 18 hours at work. TSA had to close access to the gate as there were to many PAX after security. You had people everywhere on
28 SuseJ772 : Man that is rough. I assume you work for Customs/Immigration at LAX? Good job man!
29 777fan : I understand that this problem was probably out of LAX's realm of control but to me, it's still proof positive that LAX one of the worst airports here
30 Swiftski : For UK people who may be interested: Flight number VS 024 Departure date 11 Aug 2007 Route Los Angeles (LAX) to London (LHR) Scheduled departure time
31 RJNUT : you are seeing the results of 8 years of the most incompetent presidency in the history of the US! The 'do nothing' administration that firmly believe
32 Post contains links PlateMan : CNN has a front page feature on the glitches and an article with tons of info http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/12/LAXBackup.ap/index.html
33 Post contains links PlateMan : For some reason it will not allow me to edit my last post. So I want to add that is a CNN.AP article. Below, the LA Times also provides some more info
34 Aa787823 : AA's 136 LAXLHR was on time. And AA134 LAXLHR was only delayed 1hr 20 min. Not bad for them. That VS flight above...OUCH!
35 Post contains images LHRBlueSkies : Exellent!! Hic...
36 JayDub : Wouldn't that be KSUX if it were in ICAO format? And what would Sioux City, Iowa go by?
37 777fan : Sioux City could opt for "KNOTLAX". Other options for LAX include: "KANT", "KLAG", and "KRAP". CNN's website posts a teaser in which an airport offic
38 SandroZRH : Is this why todays LX41 from LAX has been cancelled? Anybody in the knows?
39 Laxintl : What does LAX possibly have to do with Customs and Border Protection computer system going down? The design, layout, use or great weather in LA have
40 LH423 : As far as I know it's not that the system is antiquated. I believe it was updated when US-Visit came online (the camera and fingerprinting). The prob
41 Kohflot : A friend of mine asked a very good question.. Why couldn't the Customs agents keep an open line to their colleagues at another, quieter airport (or tw
42 Atlantic : you can actually rely on computers nearly 100% (ask the Nasdaq) you won't believe how reliable those systems are. Same goes for avionics. The problem
43 Reality : I would think that would probably be fine in this case and should be considered in the future.
44 LHR777 : BA ops at LAX were also screwed around - BA278 STD - 1535 ATD - 1617 Delayed 0 hours 42 minutes BA282 STD - 1750 ATD - 2159 Delayed 4 hours 09 minutes
45 Post contains images 777fan : Good thing you read my first post on this thread Tell that to the 60,000 that were/are/will feel the effects of today's snafu. I'd be willing to bet
46 Post contains images Lightsaber : Exactly. Or they could have not waited 6 hours to start doing the process manually. As far as under LAX control, a big part of the problem has been t
47 SuseJ772 : I would hardly be counted as a kool-aid drinker., and I am by no means a Bush supporter, but this comment is really uncalled for and uneducated. To b
48 VV701 : My brother-in-law who lives in Irvine Ca was on the AA117 LHR-LAX that was scheduled at LAX at 2.40pm. Luckily although he always books Economy he got
49 WorldTraveler : It is exactly the same problem. The US governmnent has not invested in the infrastructure necessary to keep the aviation system running. And the issu
50 Ikramerica : How on earth do you propose to do that? Honestly, this is silliness. The point of the computer system is to have instant access to data. "Manual back
51 Charles79 : I think that hits the mark, though in this case is the immigration/border control administration who's at fault. Problem is, the head doesn't talk to
52 Laxintl : Whats the point or value of a manual system? You expect CBP to have huge reference books detailing names and histories if people they might be on the
53 Mymiles2go : This issue has nothing to do with the US government spending money on aviation systems. This system is not considered an aviation system. It's a CBP
54 WorldTraveler : you isolate the names of the people you want to talk to and hold them until you are able to have access to your full data. Again, they had the list o
55 Analog : Visually verify that pax have valid looking documents, then let them in. It's not like people can count on a malfunction like this to get into the US
56 FLYGUY767 : Then what is the solution for new international airlines that want to fly to Los Angeles, should they opt for Ontario, San Diego, or Bakersfield? Fun
57 Mymiles2go : Of course they warn them - because they want the contract to fix thier own issues. Have you looked at funding allocation within DHS for IT systems fo
58 GA330 : I really really wanted to share some experience from last night and decided to join after 3 years looking around and just reading others comment here
59 LAXDESI : I landed at 8:45 p.m. last night at LAX on Thai Air and had to wait 4 hours on tarmac before reaching our gate. On top of that, baggage collection was
60 Laxintl : You have any clue, how many people are on various watch list? Even John Smith and Jane Doe can be suspect. Well the CBP and national law enforcement
61 Charles79 : Thanks for sharing your story. My bf had a very similar experience with 3 AF flights waiting at the gates/remote, total chaos! I actually noticed tha
62 Laxintl : Unfortunately those of us here on a.net are in the minority. Residents all across SoCal continually have opposed airport growth and modernization. Fr
63 GA330 : I have been to T2 to send some lost bag and it is in seriously need of upgrading. The space within the terminal is pathetic and there are barely any f
64 WorldTraveler : And I suppose you don't think those contracts also tell private businesses that they need to upgrade their systems also? The difference being that th
65 GA330 : Thank you for your encouragement!! I was handling China Eastern 586 to Shanghai and Beijing in the morning and Aeroflot 322/321 to and from Moscow in
66 ZRH : According to the Swiss free newspaper "Heute" the LX passengers were captured for six hours in the aircraft at LAX because the immigration computer wa
67 ZRH : Because of this unbelievable episode the aircraft could not return on time, therefore Swiss had to cancel the JNB flight the next day and pay passenge
68 LINATE : Yeah. I totally agree. I hope someone is doing something about this so it does not repeat in the future... It is appalling how they can get away with
69 Travelin man : Whoa. It was a computer failure. Was it unfortunate? Yes. Does it make the US "not civilized"? Ummmm... no. That is total hyperbole. The fact that LX
70 ZRH : Sorry, but a computer failure is never ever a reason to torture the passengers six hour in an aircraft!!!!!!
71 Analog : What makes the US "uncivilized" is not the computer failure, it's the reaction to the failure (note my flag). CBP decided to hold thousands of people
72 Panamair : While the incident on Saturday was more than regrettable, where would you have put the passengers from ALL the flights? Remember that LX 40 wasn't th
73 Panamair : Huh? what constitutes "Looks good?" What are you checking the passport against?
74 Post contains images LINATE : If they were not in their hig horses and cared about people they would have found a way to mitigate that. The fact that they do not even have a BACK
75 Post contains links Laxintl : Here is an update, and some info on the reason for the failure. Full story http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...story?coll=la-headlines-california
76 Panamair : I agree that the taxes we have been paying for each air ticket has been more than 'misappropriated' for reasons other than upgrading the country's ai
77 Analog : Into the US? There's a lot of room here. I can attest to that. International travel was possible before computers. What did countries do before compu
78 FLYGUY767 : Aeroflot was looking at Ontario in 1993, it should be looked at again by more airlines. New entrants to the market should be required to serve Ontari
79 EDICHC : mmm It IS the government that draw up and implement the regulations. The regulations are there to 'protect' the nations borders therefore it for the
80 Arrow : Haven't seen a reference to this, but can I assume that inbound flights from Canada were not afftected because passengers all go through US customs in
81 TKV : I am not so sure: why people which do not leave the country or do so seldom shall pay for the control of the international travellers, which, by the
82 Post contains links Charles79 : You are correct, their passengers weren't affected for the most part. There's a chance that some flights might have been affected by the lack of avai
83 Wardialer : Was this the DHS's Mainframe system crash or, was it only the fiber optic cables that went "hay-wire"???
84 Post contains links Laxintl : Long story in the LA Times about the behind the scenes events Saturday night. The technical side; And on the human side, the actions of officials. Ful
85 EDICHC : The point I was making was Immigration Controls are in place to protect each nation's borders & homeland from 'undesireable' persons entering the cou
86 Post contains links Laxintl : They seem to have identified the technical reason behind the outage. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...story?coll=la-headlines-california
87 767er : I flew into LAX on Saturday in NZ2. I was one of the lucky ones in that it only took 4 hours from arrival time to finalise processing - mild compared
88 NorthStarDC4M : this wonderful system sounds like it wouldn't survive in the real IT world. I work with mission critical systems, and the guidelines we have state qui
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