Laxintl From United States, joined May 2000, 12151 posts, RR: 22 Posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9011 times:
TSA screeners getting a new look.
Part of the uniform change will see the officers become badged federal officers similar to other agencies.
Quote: TSA Unveils New TSO Uniforms
As part of TSA's continued efforts to transition the workforce to a cadre of well-trained, professional transportation security officers, uniforms more reflective of the critical nature of their work and of the high standards they must uphold will be introduced in the fall.
The board reviewed and developed recommendations on all aspects of the current uniform - color, appearance, durability, ease of care and professional image - and presented them to TSA leadership. The initiative was guided by the basic principle that dress and appearance should promote esprit de corps within the workforce while instilling trust and confidence in the public. The uniform, in particular, is to stand as a readily identifiable symbol of the security mission and role of the TSO in executing the agency's core values: integrity, innovation, and team spirit.
Bozo The Clown outfits would be fitting. My tax dollars going to the improvement of air safety. And excellent investment for my children's future.
There was a mob out into the the Atlanta Atrium yesterday because at shift change of our beloved, ever vigilant TSAs. Can't hold up their coffee breaks, you know. My, what a juicy, tempting target just ripe for Al Qaida picking. (Am I allowed to say that on this BB?)
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
Halls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8898 times:
Quoting Scbriml (Reply 1): I'm sure the flying public will now feel much safer.
Just what TSA needs, new uniforms. I'm sure that the moment they don the new duds, they will be infinitely more professional.
Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 2): Bozo The Clown outfits would be fitting. My tax dollars going to the improvement of air safety. And excellent investment for my children's future.
Look at it this way. No longer will you have to be confronted with the unseemly sight of a fat TSA screener - oops, "security officer" - stuffing him or herself into a white shirt that doesn't fit. Now they will enjoy the slimming effect of a dark blue shirt!
Georgebush From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 677 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8887 times:
I'd have to say the white one's look a bit nicer. The little badge with "US Officer" is going to get wayyyy too far into many of those already egotistical high school dropout's heads!
Georgebush From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 677 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8858 times:
Quoting Jsnww81 (Reply 6): Hopefully something more absorbent of cigarette smoke, since TSA officers spend 60 percent of their day out at the terminal curbside smoking.
Haha thats funny! Cuz at FWA thats all they did too. I wonder if its some sort of a requirement to work for the TSA? They like want you to buy fags so that you can pump some of your 40k a year back into the economy by paying cigarette taxes!
SPREE34 From United States, joined Jun 2004, 1507 posts, RR: 12 Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8785 times:
Quoting Georgebush (Reply 5): The little badge with "US Officer" is going to get wayyyy too far into many of those already egotistical high school dropout's heads!
You hit that one spot on! That is a much bigger problem than people think, or the agency wants to accept. The Cop "wanna be" mentality. They think about their "authority" instead of their "responsibility". The Drill Sergent wanna be is fun to watch sometimes. Rude, but funny.
Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 2): Bozo The Clown outfits would be fitting.
This is an insult to Clowns everywhere. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
Miner From Brazil, joined Aug 2007, 80 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8522 times:
I for one don't think it's a bad thing. Sure, the money could be spent in more equipment, etc.
Let's look at this on the bright side: Change is good. If this helps morale for them to do their job better, then it's all good.
Flyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8518 times:
Well, TSA looks horrible in their current uniforms.... wrinkly, ill-fitting, dirty, etc. So, my bets are they'll look horrible in their new ones too.
At least their new ones are closer to what they should be. Now they don't look as much like wanna-be pilot uniforms and instead look like wanna-be mall cop uniforms.
Mir From United States, joined Jan 2004, 13150 posts, RR: 65 Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8504 times:
So, the TSA recognizes that there are problems with the screeners. They're not doing their jobs well and they're not presenting a good image to the travelling public. There are numerous courses of action they could take. They could spend more on more effective training. They could spend more on higher salaries to lure better people. But they decide to spend more on new uniforms.
Because blue will definitely make the screeners smarter and more effective. And while you might get pissed off if you were harassed by a screener in white, being harassed a screener in blue will appear to you as a mere symbol of their appreciation.
I have a novel idea: outsource airport security to India. They'd probably do a better job of it.
Laxintl From United States, joined May 2000, 12151 posts, RR: 22 Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8494 times:
While certainly not LEO the TSA agents do have jurisdictional authority over check points and baggage screening.
Likely in the eyes of DHS, they like other non armed federal security staff (rangers, facility security) fall under the larger "Federal Agent" umbrella and deserve to be badged accordingly.
Now, with the metal badge part of the uniform, they will certainly have fun walking thru the magnetometers.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
ANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8494 times:
THe least the morons could have done in putting together this press release is have to idiot wearing the pants in the photos at least wear the right length pant. . .
Oh, and shine your damned shoes you worthless rent-a-cop.
Scbriml From United Kingdom (England), joined Jul 2003, 8933 posts, RR: 51 Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8441 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 17): THe least the morons could have done in putting together this press release is have to idiot wearing the pants in the photos at least wear the right length pant. . .
Oh, and shine your damned shoes you worthless rent-a-cop.
Ha ha, I was going to say something about that, but then decided I'd leave it for a real cop.
Cornish From United Kingdom (England), joined Feb 2005, 8093 posts, RR: 61 Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8378 times:
Personally I'd prefer to see the money spent on better training or better systems rather than better uniforms.
Like teach them to tell the difference between a retractable car key and a flick knife for starters.....
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
N766UA From United States, joined Jul 1999, 6816 posts, RR: 51 Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8378 times:
Why? Does it improve security or customer service? Will they do a better job sending bags down the belt on time now that they'll be dressed differently?
What an F'ing waste of money. Typical gov't agency.
If God meant man to fly, He'd have given us bigger wallets.
KaiGywer From United States, joined Oct 2003, 11112 posts, RR: 44 Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8292 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT
Quoting Georgebush (Reply 5): The little badge with "US Officer" is going to get wayyyy too far into many of those already egotistical high school dropout's heads!
QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED:
• Be a U.S. Citizen or U.S. National (For further information concerning U.S. citizenship, please visit http://www.uscis.gov/; AND
• Have a high school diploma, GED or equivalent; OR
• Have at least one year of full-time work experience in security work, aviation screener work, or X-ray technician work.
Yes, I see the OR...etc
But, try to get that experience without a high school diploma.
Quoting Georgebush (Reply 8): They like want you to buy fags so that you can pump some of your 40k a year back into the economy by paying cigarette taxes!
Socalatc From United States, joined Jan 2004, 469 posts, RR: 4 Reply 25, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8283 times:
Great!! Those badges are going to make their retarded fat heads even fatter.. Next thing you know they will start wearing guns and shooting anyone they think may be a terrorist.
Well I guess there is a good thing. All those TSA with a GED or high school diploma that thought they could never been federal officers now can!
Contrails From United States, joined Oct 2000, 1609 posts, RR: 0 Reply 29, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8173 times:
Quoting Scbriml (Reply 1): I'm sure the flying public will now feel much safer.
Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 2): Bozo The Clown outfits would be fitting. My tax dollars going to the improvement of air safety. And excellent investment for my children's future.
Quoting Commavia (Reply 3): Well, I feel so much better knowing that my tax dollars are being spent on the top national security priorities of our day.
These pretty well summarize my thoughts on this subject. Instead of focusing on the problems TSA buys new uniforms. People, some possibly with malovent intentions, will still get through the checkpoints and disappear into the airport, but the TSA employees will look real nice in their new uniforms while they're looking for the missing gate-crashers.
As a colleague of mine is known to say quite often: Unbelievable!
57AZ From United States, joined Nov 2004, 2491 posts, RR: 3 Reply 30, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8112 times:
Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 11): This is an insult to Clowns everywhere.
Indeed. Professional clowns spend many years honing their skills at professional training schools (yes, there is a university for clowns) and performing with smaller shows before getting a shot at the big top.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
UAL777 From United States, joined Aug 2003, 1268 posts, RR: 3 Reply 31, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8063 times:
I don't know why everyone cracks on TSA so hard here. Yes they are inefficient, but at the same time I have never had a bad experience with them. Sure some can be a little snappy at times, but I would too after smelling people's shoes all day.
You only hear about their failures, but never about their successes. They stop people with weapons every day.
Their job is mind-numbingly boring and has a very high turnover rate. Give the guys some credit.
Just say NO to scope relief! In fact, TAKE IT BACK!
SPREE34 From United States, joined Jun 2004, 1507 posts, RR: 12 Reply 33, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7898 times:
Quoting N766UA (Reply 20): What an F'ing waste of money. Typical gov't agency.
BINGO! !! !!!
Very much "typical gov't". Same as the FAA did last year to the Controllers. Slapped a dress code on them. RADAR failing on a daily basis, equipment no longer gets preventative care, it's "fix at failure", facilities/buildings in disrepair, and we need 100 miles worth of concrete poured to fix the delays, I could go on.......Today they are way short staffed and it's getting worse by the day. But DAMN don't those guys and gals look great now. Well, the one's willing to stay.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10189 posts, RR: 71 Reply 34, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7874 times:
So, the existing uniform has become a symbol of ineptitude and needs to be replaced. It's only a matter of time until the new uniform suffers from the same problem.
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 4): No longer will you have to be confronted with the unseemly sight of a fat TSA screener - oops, "security officer" - stuffing him or herself into a white shirt that doesn't fit. Now they will enjoy the slimming effect of a dark blue shirt!
Brown shirts would be more appropriate given the pervading mentality.
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 12244 posts, RR: 57 Reply 35, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7862 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter): As part of TSA's continued efforts to transition the workforce to a cadre of well-trained, professional transportation security officers
Is that an indirect admission of the TSA that most of their front line staff is in fact NOT well trained and professional?
Zu fettigem Käse und kalorienreicher Kunstmarmelade, nehme ich einen Doppelkorn.
CaptOveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 40, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6943 times:
Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 24): QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED:
• Be a U.S. Citizen or U.S. National (For further information concerning U.S. citizenship, please visit http://www.uscis.gov/; AND
• Have a high school diploma, GED or equivalent; OR
• Have at least one year of full-time work experience in security work, aviation screener work, or X-ray technician work.
Thats not an uncommon qualification list for most law enforcement jobs. College is usually preferred, but not required. Keep in mind those are probably the minimums they will hire someone with. Experience can overcome a lot of education.
Also, a good uniform does go a long way. Not only is it more comfortable and a heck of a lot easier to keep clean, there are few things that can beat a decent command presence. Lets face it, thats all the TSA is- a command presence. The white shirt looked too much like a mall security guard.
Tsaord From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 42, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6678 times:
Postal workers lol.
I just saw those at work last week. I'm glad they made the shirts darker for the simple fact that us baggage folks have to pick up those dirty bags and our shirts get dirty real quick,
The pants...ha...they think their slick but I understand the concept behind it. But they are bringing back the old patches that were our original identity. The new patch on one side. The original on the other with the bird, two towers, 9 stars, and 11 red/white stripes.
BoeingBoy From Bouvet Island, joined Jul 2007, 149 posts, RR: 0 Reply 43, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6574 times:
Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 24): QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED:
• Be a U.S. Citizen or U.S. National (For further information concerning U.S. citizenship, please visit http://www.uscis.gov/; AND
• Have a high school diploma, GED or equivalent; OR
• Have at least one year of full-time work experience in security work, aviation screener work, or X-ray technician work.
Yes, I see the OR...etc
But, try to get that experience without a high school diploma
Why isn't the ability to speak ENGLISH a requirement ????
Tsaord From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 44, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6559 times:
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 4): Look at it this way. No longer will you have to be confronted with the unseemly sight of a fat TSA screener - oops, "security officer" - stuffing him or herself into a white shirt that doesn't fit. Now they will enjoy the slimming effect of a dark blue shirt!
That will not help some folks believe me! I think I put back on 25 pounds But I want to take that back off.
Quoting Georgebush (Reply 5): I'd have to say the white one's look a bit nicer. The little badge with "US Officer" is going to get wayyyy too far into many of those already egotistical high school dropout's heads!
You would be surprised at the number of college graduates, current college students, and high number of former military who are apart of TSA. If airline employees can come off as p'od all day I guess some Officiers can also.
We should have uniforms that are appropriate for picking up heavy dirty bags, at least baggage folks. But I can say upper management could so a better job of enforcing uniforms rules. Also AA, UA, and some of those other non ironed airport employees.
Some are happy some aren't. Can't please everyone.
Citation750x From United States, joined Apr 2007, 12 posts, RR: 0 Reply 48, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks ago) and read 5333 times:
I am saying that it is a bad idea but the government is more interested in changing uniforms than educating some of the TSA "officers" on how be polite than being rude to travelling public. By putting "US Officer" on their uniforms will make the "cop wanna be" TSA agents show off their power and authority, even more. It is bad enough we had to put with rude TSA agents, it is going to get worse after this uniform change, in my opinion.
In the first place, what is a uniform change going to prove?
Georgebush From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 677 posts, RR: 0 Reply 49, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks ago) and read 5290 times:
Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 24): SALARY RANGE: 23,836.00 - 35,754.00 USD per year
Whats sad is, my mom works for the Federal Government as a school teacher, she has for 8 years. My mom has to Bachelor's degrees and a Master's degree. She only makes $39,000 a year.
Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 24): Have a high school diploma, GED or equivalent
Even without the "OR" this is a requirement of OO airlines as well, yet I worked for them over a year before I graduated high school. Its a matter of who is doing the paperwork.
FXramper From United States, joined Dec 2005, 5111 posts, RR: 99 Reply 50, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5112 times:
Quoting Commavia (Reply 3): Well, I feel so much better knowing that my tax dollars are being spent on the top national security priorities of our day.
Socalatc From United States, joined Jan 2004, 469 posts, RR: 4 Reply 51, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5070 times:
Quoting Tsaord (Reply 45): You would be surprised at the number of college graduates, current college students, and high number of former military who are apart of TSA. If airline employees can come off as p'od all day I guess some Officiers can also.
We should have uniforms that are appropriate for picking up heavy dirty bags, at least baggage folks. But I can say upper management could so a better job of enforcing uniforms rules. Also AA, UA, and some of those other non ironed airport employees.
Some are happy some aren't. Can't please everyone.
Reading this, I assume that you are not one of the TSO's that attended college or are currently attending college.
SJC4Me From United States, joined Jul 2006, 307 posts, RR: 0 Reply 53, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4594 times:
Quoting ODwyerPW (Reply 53): Man, that Velcro pocket is the bees knees.
Thats the first thing I thought of too. I wonder why that was so important, to warrant its own picture. We're the TSA employees having a hard time figuring out how to undo a button? I wonder if the crotch in the pants are Velcro too.
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10189 posts, RR: 71 Reply 54, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4568 times:
Quoting SJC4Me (Reply 54): Thats the first thing I thought of too. I wonder why that was so important, to warrant its own picture. We're the TSA employees having a hard time figuring out how to undo a button? I wonder if the crotch in the pants are Velcro too.
I'm wondering how many weeks of training will be devoted to operating the velcro pocket.
Ramprat74 From United States, joined Dec 2003, 1223 posts, RR: 1 Reply 56, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4460 times:
Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 14): Well, TSA looks horrible in their current uniforms.... wrinkly, ill-fitting
You got that right. Here at PDX. It looks like they only had one shirt size for everybody. It doesn't matter if you are 4'11 or 6'5. You get a 3XL shirt. I never seen so many unprofessional looking people in one place, in all my life.
L-188 From United States, joined Jul 1999, 28610 posts, RR: 72 Reply 57, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4438 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter): the agency's core values: integrity, innovation, and team spirit.
Bull, Their core values come from a Ray Stevens song "Eric the Awful".....Ravage, pillage plunder, rape, and put big hickeys on all the fair air travelers....EEEYAYAAYAY!!!!
Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 11): You hit that one spot on! That is a much bigger problem than people think, or the agency wants to accept. The Cop "wanna be" mentality. They think about their "authority" instead of their "responsibility". The Drill Sergent wanna be is fun to watch sometimes. Rude, but funny.
What else do you expect, they are a bunch of people who are still pissed off they where picked to be hall monitors during the third grade.
Quoting KevinSmith (Reply 28): To quote the move The Departed the new uniforms make them look like they are "about to invade Poland"
You beat me to it....I was just thinking that you where in trouble either way if it was SA Brown or SS Black that came knocking at your door.
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 35): Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
As part of TSA's continued efforts to transition the workforce to a cadre of well-trained, professional transportation security officers
Is that an indirect admission of the TSA that most of their front line staff is in fact NOT well trained and professional?
Hell no, They are coming right and saying it. They are a buch off ill-behavied, ill-tempered, non-thinking idiots who pretend to know what they are doing.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
SkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 58, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4136 times:
They stop worrying about lighters, but instead blow $2.5 Million on stupid uniforms that will do nothing to the people wearing them. You can dress up an idiot all you want, but they'll never be a professor.
Aveugle From United States, joined Aug 2007, 60 posts, RR: 0 Reply 59, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4030 times:
Well after about 3-4 years of reading threads on Airliners.net this thread seems to have been the tipping point for me to pay up $25 and have the privelege of posting.
What I would like to see the TSA do is focus on efficiency and making it easier for travelers to pass through security quickly but still securely and not spend their budget on how they look.
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10189 posts, RR: 71 Reply 60, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3913 times:
Quoting Aveugle (Reply 60): What I would like to see the TSA do is focus on efficiency and making it easier for travelers to pass through security quickly but still securely
That can never happen as long as they remain a government bureaucracy. That would require privatization.
ShyFlyer From United States, joined Jun 2009, 212 posts, RR: 15 Reply 61, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3696 times:
Quoting SJC4Me (Reply 54): TWe're the TSA employees having a hard time figuring out how to undo a button? I wonder if the crotch in the pants are Velcro too.
It's a pretty common feature amongst uniform shirts made for law enforcement and security agencies. If those shirts in the TSA photo are anything like the one I wore as a Correctional Officer, the shirt also zips up in the front, with the buttons on there just for "decoration."
L410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 4571 posts, RR: 24 Reply 62, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3392 times:
Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 40): Lets face it, thats all the TSA is- a command presence. The white shirt looked too much like a mall security guard.
You think different color of shirt will make them more professional? I mean why they have to have a military/police-style of uniform at all? Totalitarian regimes usually tend to have uniforms everywhere...
Ncelhr From Vatican City State (Holy See), joined Jul 2006, 332 posts, RR: 0 Reply 63, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2948 times:
I personally think this is a downgrade for those poor TSA employees, going from being a white collar worker to a blue collar worker.
Still, the logo is cool. But the uniform begs for a hat. Here are my choices in no particular order:
- straw hat
- Russian army officer style cap
- 2nd WW SS cap
- Jester hat with 3 bells
- Cup holder
- Balaclava (yeah, that would give them more authority)
- Mexican sombrero
- full-size smoke hood (for sniffing passenger shoes)
etc.
And I'd arm them with Tazers. Welcome to the flying experience!
Cornish From United Kingdom (England), joined Feb 2005, 8093 posts, RR: 61 Reply 64, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2916 times:
Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 63): But the uniform begs for a hat. Here are my choices in no particular order:
how about:
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
National757 From United States, joined Jul 2007, 696 posts, RR: 1 Reply 65, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2719 times:
Quoting Miner (Reply 13): I for one don't think it's a bad thing. Sure, the money could be spent in more equipment, etc.
Let's look at this on the bright side: Change is good. If this helps morale for them to do their job better, then it's all good.
Quoting UAL777 (Reply 31): You only hear about their failures, but never about their successes. They stop people with weapons every day.
Quoting UAL777 (Reply 31): Their job is mind-numbingly boring and has a very high turnover rate. Give the guys some credit.
It's easy to talk out of your behind on an internet message board but try walking a mile in their shoes. Bottom line is that the TSA screeners are doing a job we all take for granted each time we step on-board an aircraft.
Halls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 66, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2690 times:
Quoting National757 (Reply 65): It's easy to talk out of your behind on an internet message board but try walking a mile in their shoes. Bottom line is that the TSA screeners are doing a job we all take for granted each time we step on-board an aircraft.
Given the numerous reported instances of TSA screeners being able to detect prohibited items during tests of their security measures, it would appear that they are NOT doing anything particularly worthwhile. The only reason I feel any safer boarding an airplane these days is that there is a better than average chance that one of both of my pilots is packing an Heckler & Koch sidearm, not because some over officious, arrogant slob has rummaged through my luggage.
TSA's repeated failures suggest that all they have accomplished is to make the experience of air travel more inefficient, not safer.
And they will likely continue to harass passengers and miss prohibited items notwithstanding the snazzy new velcroed uniforms.
National757 From United States, joined Jul 2007, 696 posts, RR: 1 Reply 67, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2682 times:
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 66): Given the numerous reported instances of TSA screeners being able to detect prohibited items during tests of their security measures
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 66): TSA's repeated failures suggest that all they have accomplished is to make the experience of air travel more inefficient, not safer.
Granted I acknowledge the numerous media reports about some TSA security lapses however what about the instances where TSA screeners were able to detect prohibited items? How about TSA's repeated successes in confiscating weapons and other dangerous items from passengers daily? You never hear those stories.
It's remarkable how hard people trying to do us harm have to try in order to find vulnerabilities in our airport security system. (Example: they tried to smuggle liquid explosives) That in itself proves the effectiveness of airport security post September 11th.
I'm not denying the fact that the TSA has had it's share of stumbles; All I'm saying is that they deserve more credit than people on this thread are giving them.
CaptOveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 68, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2683 times:
Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 62): I mean why they have to have a military/police-style of uniform at all? Totalitarian regimes usually tend to have uniforms everywhere...
What do you suggest they wear? a thong and a smile?
They have to have a uniform and a good looking one goes a lot to perceived credibility.
So now are you going to tell me "The Nazis made people wear flair"
L410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 4571 posts, RR: 24 Reply 69, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2657 times:
Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 68): They have to have a uniform and a good looking one goes a lot to perceived credibility.
I'm not disputing uniform dress at all. I just don't see how this obvious fetish with "military/police-style" of uniforms, all those patches, rank badges and rest of the crap makes them more professional and/or credible (along with having a blue shirt instead of white one).
Starlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 13594 posts, RR: 68 Reply 70, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2659 times:
Quoting National757 (Reply 65): It's easy to talk out of your behind on an internet message board but try walking a mile in their shoes.
I have worked security while I was in the military. The procedures I learned were effective. The procedures and behavior used by the TSA are not.
To be fair to TSA employees, they have been betrayed by their management. It is painfully obvious that those who drew up policies and procedures know little about security or are unable to enact effective policy for some reason. That is one problem. The other problem is that the flying public does not really want good security. Sure, they public talks about wanting it, but they insist that things like body searches and "stripping" x-rays are privacy invasions. Well guess what? You can't have it both ways.
Get some good trainers and some good security models + public acceptance of somewhat invasive procedures and everything will improve.
Very good article and a must read for anyone interested in airport security. Thanks for sharing.
Quoting Keep And Bear Arms article (Reply 70): Fingers around the collar, down the back, around inside the belt, along the arms, under the arms, down the sides, down each pant leg and into the boot tops, back up the legs and closely enough I could have asked for a date. THAT is how a search is done.
Can you imagine this type of a procedure being implemented in the United States? Privacy advocates would be up in arms !
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 70): The other problem is that the flying public does not really want good security. Sure, they public talks about wanting it, but they insist that things like body searches and "stripping" x-rays are privacy invasions.
WingnutMN From United States, joined Jan 2004, 430 posts, RR: 0 Reply 72, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2622 times:
Now their uniforms look as incompitent as the screeners are! They look like a half a$$ renta-cop security outfit now!!! All they need now is the the old dented crown-vic cars with the yellow light bars and blow horns to tell you to keep driving and you can't park their and they could compete against any mall security outfit in the country!!!
WingnutMN
Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
Halls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 73, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2530 times:
Quoting National757 (Reply 67): Quoting Halls120 (Reply 66):
TSA's repeated failures suggest that all they have accomplished is to make the experience of air travel more inefficient, not safer.
Granted I acknowledge the numerous media reports about some TSA security lapses however what about the instances where TSA screeners were able to detect prohibited items? How about TSA's repeated successes in confiscating weapons and other dangerous items from passengers daily? You never hear those stories.
Let's go back to 9/11. Those hijackers were not successful because of inept gate security. They succeeded because they knew they would meet no resistance once on board, due to airline policies in existence at the time prohibiting resistance to an attempted hijacking. Yes, they supposedly got box cutters on board, but to this day, we have no proof that they smuggled those items through the gate, or that they were planted on board by "helpful" ground personnel. But it doesn't matter, because they could have hijacked those planes with a ball point pen.
Can you prove that the post 9/11 gate security is better than pre 9/11 security? If you can't, then just how much better off are we today with the vastly more expensive federalized TSA than we were with contract security? Why couldn't the federal government, instead of the present TSA, gone with a small cadre of professional security personnel in charge of airport security at every airport supervising contract employees?
Quoting National757 (Reply 67): It's remarkable how hard people trying to do us harm have to try in order to find vulnerabilities in our airport security system. (Example: they tried to smuggle liquid explosives) That in itself proves the effectiveness of airport security post September 11th.
It does no such thing. And even if it does, how is post 9/11 security better than pre 9/11 security?
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 70): To be fair to TSA employees, they have been betrayed by their management. It is painfully obvious that those who drew up policies and procedures know little about security or are unable to enact effective policy for some reason.
Having personally dealt with inept senior TSA management, I concur strongly with the above.
AeroWeanie From United States, joined exactly 5 years ago today! , 1527 posts, RR: 54 Reply 74, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2520 times:
Having them in new uniforms will help me feel better next time a hand screener decides to smash everything in my wife's carry-on bag (as happened June 3 in SFO). Maybe they will also finally make complaint forms available so that we can hold these power hungry morons accountable for their actions. At present, if you ask for a complaint form, you are met with a blank look. If you keep pushing, they threaten to arrest you (this is exactly what happened).
UAL777 From United States, joined Aug 2003, 1268 posts, RR: 3 Reply 75, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2478 times:
Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 69):
I'm not disputing uniform dress at all. I just don't see how this obvious fetish with "military/police-style" of uniforms, all those patches, rank badges and rest of the crap makes them more professional and/or credible (along with having a blue shirt instead of white one).
In Colombia they are in full combat uniforms. Does that make them totalitarian?
Just say NO to scope relief! In fact, TAKE IT BACK!
ANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 76, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2428 times:
Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 58): You can dress up an idiot all you want, but they'll never be a professor.
Can't fix stupid can ya.
Quoting Aveugle (Reply 59): Well after about 3-4 years of reading threads on Airliners.net this thread seems to have been the tipping point for me to pay up $25 and have the privelege of posting.
Welcome aboard!
Quoting National757 (Reply 67): I'm not denying the fact that the TSA has had it's share of stumbles; All I'm saying is that they deserve more credit than people on this thread are giving them.
Ummm, no they do not. My experiences with them have not been distasteful, at all. But I watch, every time, these people at work. They baffle the mind.
If you think you're safer now than before the Thousands Standing Around came to pass, you're way off the map.
KaiGywer From United States, joined Oct 2003, 11112 posts, RR: 44 Reply 77, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2333 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT
Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 40): Thats not an uncommon qualification list for most law enforcement jobs. College is usually preferred, but not required. Keep in mind those are probably the minimums they will hire someone with. Experience can overcome a lot of education.
Yeah, I know, I posted and bolded in response a somebody calling them high school dropouts.
Quoting WingnutMN (Reply 72): All they need now is the the old dented crown-vic cars with the yellow light bars and blow horns to tell you to keep driving and you can't park their and they could compete against any mall security outfit in the country!!!
Since when does the TSA patrol in "old dented crown-vic cars with the yellow light bars"? That'd be somebody else..
Never Underestimate the Power of Stupid People in Large Groups
MDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 79, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2297 times:
Defend them all you want guys, TSA are buffoons.
Interacting with them on a professional level is frankly, quite scary.
As a professional courtesy we notify all respective law enforcement and security agencies when we will be conducting armed escort of high value clients in their jurisdiction. The TSA is the only agency that routinely has a spastic response.
L-188 From United States, joined Jul 1999, 28610 posts, RR: 72 Reply 82, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2233 times:
Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 63): Still, the logo is cool. But the uniform begs for a hat. Here are my choices in no particular order:
- straw hat
- Russian army officer style cap
- 2nd WW SS cap
- Jester hat with 3 bells
- Cup holder
- Balaclava (yeah, that would give them more authority)
- Mexican sombrero
- full-size smoke hood (for sniffing passenger shoes)
etc.
Thats what missing....May I suggest a white pith helmet but only if they are issued a matching swagger stick.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
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I mean why they have to have a military/police-style of uniform at all? Totalitarian regimes usually tend to have uniforms everywhere....gif){kind=small}
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