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BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?  
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12476 posts, RR: 37
Posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3042 times:

http://www.abcmoney.co.uk/news/142007118529.htm

Nice timing, with the Climate Camp protestors on the intended site! The BAA is proposing to extend the proposed length of the new third runway to 2500m (about 8,200'), from the originally proposed 2,000m. Of course, the BAA isn't saying anything about it and it could be just propaganda (which is coming from both sides).

2500m would certainly make it more useful for WB aircraft (albeit landing only), although the original plan was for the runway to be used for short haul flights. My big concern about this is that if the runway is lengthened (and I doubt if this will be the last such proposal), the runway intended for SH flights will gradually be taken over by long haul flights and SH flights will be squeezed out. Ideally, the third runway (and associated terminal) would be used for feeder flights, feeding into the LHR hub.

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2971 times:

I think BAA would be wise to get 2000m approved first and then consider an extension later depending on operational needs at the time.

BAA should set up a subsidiary corporation to buy up houses anywhere near LHR that people might complain about noise and then let them out to airport and airline employees. It might not be a great profit centre, but if they can buy up enough houses in a village, then they would have the power to severely depress property prices if they were to so choose.

If BAA were to own, say, 20% of the houses in Sipson, they could tell the owners of the remaining 80% "We'll offer you fair market price plus 10% for your house now. We hope you'll take it because we need to buy more houses here for a charity program we're setting up next year. Our charity will help violent ex-felons with their rehabilitation by providing them with low rent housing here in Sipson. We're not sure what effect our charity program will have on property prices in Sipson, but you have 120 days to consider our fair market price plus 10% offer.


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3593 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2940 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 1):
BAA should set up a subsidiary corporation to buy up houses anywhere near LHR that people might complain about noise and then let them out to airport and airline employees. It might not be a great profit centre, but if they can buy up enough houses in a village, then they would have the power to severely depress property prices if they were to so choose.

It would not in any way surprise me if BAA weren't already doing so. They certainly have used this approach at STN, they now own the majority of the houses needed for the 2nd runway there.

With regard to your idea of using their ownership of property to drive down prices, this would most certainly be illegal in the UK.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2910 times:

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 2):
With regard to your idea of using their ownership of property to drive down prices, this would most certainly be illegal in the UK.

Wow, here in Lithuania, developers sometimes just kill people who don't want to sell. Of course, I'm not suggesting that. I'm very curious about the law you mention. How is it worded?


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12476 posts, RR: 37
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2888 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 3):
Wow, here in Lithuania, developers sometimes just kill people who don't want to sell. Of course, I'm not suggesting that. I'm very curious about the law you mention. How is it worded?

I don't think it's a matter of quoting a specific piece of legislation as such, but as Bongodog has said, it would certainly be illegal and it's unlikely that you would find any piece of legislation that would permit intimidation to expedite the clearing of land required for development.


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2875 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 1):
Our charity will help violent ex-felons with their rehabilitation by providing them with low rent housing here in Sipson. We're not sure what effect our charity program will have on property prices in Sipson, but you have 120 days to consider our fair market price plus 10% offer.

LOL!!!! Coffee/keyboard interface moment! Big grin



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2875 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 4):
I don't think it's a matter of quoting a specific piece of legislation as such, but as Bongodog has said, it would certainly be illegal and it's unlikely that you would find any piece of legislation that would permit intimidation to expedite the clearing of land required for development.

Are you saying that in the UK everything is illegal which is not specifically permitted by a law?


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5763 posts, RR: 47
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2818 times:

When is the 3rd runway supposed to start operations?


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2763 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 7):
When is the 3rd runway supposed to start operations?

It is only a proposal. BAA are far from receiving permission to build it, so all we can say is that it won't be in operation for at least a decade or so.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26499 posts, RR: 75
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2689 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):

2500m would certainly make it more useful for WB aircraft (albeit landing only)

For a fair few widebodies within a decent range band, it would work for takeoffs too.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 1):

If BAA were to own, say, 20% of the houses in Sipson, they could tell the owners of the remaining 80% "We'll offer you fair market price plus 10% for your house now. We hope you'll take it because we need to buy more houses here for a charity program we're setting up next year. Our charity will help violent ex-felons with their rehabilitation by providing them with low rent housing here in Sipson. We're not sure what effect our charity program will have on property prices in Sipson, but you have 120 days to consider our fair market price plus 10% offer.

That is called fraud, as well as coercion



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2670 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
That is called fraud, as well as coercion

Coercion necessarily involves using force against something. I didn't suggest any use of force. Fraud necessarily involves lying. I didn't suggest any lying.

[Edited 2007-08-14 21:50:40]

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26499 posts, RR: 75
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2632 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 10):

Coercion necessarily involves using force against something.

Not necessarily physical force.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 10):
Fraud necessarily involves lying. I didn't suggest any lying.

Yes you did



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3203 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2622 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
Ideally, the third runway (and associated terminal) would be used for feeder flights, feeding into the LHR hub.

No, ideally a new runway would be used in whatever manner the airlines desire, be it feeder flights or long haul flights. If the airlines desire to add even more long haul at LHR, it would be nice to have a runway to be able to accommodate that.

The BAA should propose an 11,000' runway (knowing it would never be built), so that they can "concede" with the environmental extremists a length back to about 9,000'.

[Edited 2007-08-14 22:02:37]


FLYi
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2594 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
Not necessarily physical force.

I didn't suggest the use of any sort of force, physical or otherwise.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
Yes you did

What are you on about? I most certainly did not suggest that BAA lie to anyone.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26499 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2579 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 13):

I didn't suggest the use of any sort of force, physical or otherwise.

Oh really? Threatening to house violent felons near families?

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 13):

What are you on about? I most certainly did not suggest that BAA lie to anyone.

Yes you did. You suggested they set up a sham deal about housing violent felons in order to get people to sell off quickly.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2551 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
Oh really? Threatening to house violent felons near families?

Threat? No threat. Just honestly informing neighbours of future plans.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
You suggested they set up a sham deal about housing violent felons in order to get people to sell off quickly.

I never suggested any sham. You imagined that out of thin air. BAA should set up a charity in Sipson to help rehabilitate violent ex-felons. And BAA should give the villagers in Sipson a chance to sell at or above pre-existing market prices before the rehabilitation programme begins.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2542 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):
Threat? No threat. Just honestly informing neighbours of future plans



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):
I never suggested any sham. You imagined that out of thin air. BAA should set up a charity in Sipson to help rehabilitate violent ex-felons. And BAA should give the villagers in Sipson a chance to sell at or above pre-existing market prices before the rehabilitation programme begins.

So if you stop playing with words for a few minutes perhaps you tell us just why should BAA set up such a charity......they can't even run airports properly?


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2509 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 16):
So if you stop playing with words for a few minutes perhaps you tell us just why should BAA set up such a charity......they can't even run airports properly?

The objective is to buy up the land that BAA need to expand LHR. If it's not clear how setting up a charity to help rehabilitate violent ex-felons by providing them with low rent housing in Sipson would help achieve that end, then I'm not sure how I can help.

The reason BAA can't run airports well is there is insufficient competition. No one company should be allowed to own two airports within, say, 100km of each other.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26499 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2482 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 17):

The objective is to buy up the land that BAA need to expand LHR. If it's not clear how setting up a charity to help rehabilitate violent ex-felons by providing them with low rent housing in Sipson would help achieve that end, then I'm not sure how I can help.

Ridiculous.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 17):

The reason BAA can't run airports well is there is insufficient competition.

No, the reason BAA can't run airports well is because they are a private company that are doing something inherently governmental.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 17):
No one company should be allowed to own two airports within, say, 100km of each other.

Well then. Sounds like a restriction on the market to me.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):

Threat? No threat. Just honestly informing neighbours of future plans.

Threatening plans.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2458 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Ridiculous.

Ridicule me all you like.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
BAA can't run airports well is because they are a private company that are doing something inherently governmental.

 rotfl 

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Sounds like a restriction on the market to me.

Yes, a few are needed to prevent monopolies.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Threatening plans.

You think it would be better to surprise the neighbours? That doesn't strike me as being very neighbourly. I think it's better to tell them well in advance.


User currently offlineAF2323 From France, joined Aug 2007, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2355 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
That is called fraud, as well as coercion

Maybe, but at least it's funny.  smile 


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26499 posts, RR: 75
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2351 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 19):

Yes, a few are needed to prevent monopolies.

Monopolies that result of competition are decided by the market. Get over your utopian idea that pure markets are possible, because they aren't.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2295 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):
Get over your utopian idea that pure markets are possible, because they aren't.

There you go again... attributing to me things I didn't write.


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