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Passengers Threaten To Sue CO  
User currently offlineLogos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 793 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11910 times:

Apparently irate passengers from a diversion of a CO flight from CCS-EWR are looking for some more serious compensation. Yet more air rage. Here's the link:

http://news.aol.com/story/ar/_a/irat...reaten-to-sue/20070814133609990001

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando


Too many types flown to list
123 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineACFA From Canada, joined Feb 2007, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11871 times:

"We were not provided with food," said passenger Caroline Murray.

Of course not, unless she wanted leftovers.....


User currently offlineACFA From Canada, joined Feb 2007, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11810 times:

And planes don't get "stranded on the runway" as the ABC journalist erroneously states in the video. The video report seems to praise the passengers on the flight who "took matter into their own hands", thats encouraging disorderly conduct and can make flying a lot more dangerous. I wonder if the same crew took the passengers back to EWR, I would think its a bad idea simply for the fact that there was likely a lot of animosity directed towards them.

User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2603 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11810 times:

Irate passengers? Landed at 1.50, got off the plane just to be "disciplined" at 6.30? These passengers were extremely easy going on my books...There is something seriously wrong with the aviation in USA. If I'd be there, I'd be suing too,especially after this experience:

Quote:
We were removed from the plane and were forced to walk single file against the wall, flanked by armed officers one of whom had an attack dog," Murray said.


User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2603 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11751 times:

Quoting ACFA (Reply 2):
he video report seems to praise the passengers on the flight who "took matter into their own hands", thats encouraging disorderly conduct and can make flying a lot more dangerous.

Sorry man, I have only one word to this: bullshit. Nothing happened during the flight, problems started when the airline airline failed to look after it's customers on the ground. That's pisspoor service. It's really interesting that many of airline employees will complain in Non-Aviation about low quality of products and services elsewhere, but when it comes to airline screw ups, they'll will defend them...

Quoting ACFA (Reply 2):
I wonder if the same crew took the passengers back to EWR, I would think its a bad idea simply for the fact that there was likely a lot of animosity directed towards them.

I'd highly doubt that, they most likely timed out.


User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2603 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11751 times:

Quoting ACFA (Reply 1):
Of course not, unless she wanted leftovers.....

There are no catering companies in Baltimore?


User currently offlineACFA From Canada, joined Feb 2007, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11719 times:

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 4):
Sorry man, I have only one word to this: bullshit. Nothing happened during the flight, problems started when the airline airline failed to look after it's customers on the ground. That's pisspoor service.

Maybe so, but we don't have the full story. There could've been a variety of reasons why the passengers couldn't be allowed off. To encourage them to riot is a very dangerous road to be going down. Its not like the crew held them hostage or anything. Believe me, I'd bet my next paycheque that everyone on the crew wanted off that plane as well. Aircrew don't get paid during ground stops, they would've been doing everything they can to try to communicate the situation to ops.


User currently offline28thguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11708 times:

Continental deserves everything that they have coming to them for this incident.

CO should also be smarter about diversions. I recall being diverted on DL due to a mechanical problem (landing gear wouldn't retract) from AMS-JFK. DL diverted to LGW, all passengers were allowed to clear customs, and then we were rebooked on various British Airways flights from LHR-JFK (with a bus ride from LGW to LHR). We were told that DL ops decided to divert us to London given availability of alternate flights.

Contrast that experience with CO's recent AMS-SNN-JFK diversion (diversion to SNN, requiring use of the same malfunctioning plane on following day to complete the trip), and this case of diverting to BWI without allowing customers to clear customs. I am not sure if customs is open all day at BWI, but it certainly is at IAD or BOS.


User currently offlineACFA From Canada, joined Feb 2007, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11693 times:

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 5):
There are no catering companies in Baltimore?

Its not always easy to order catering service just like that. And anyways, CO likely would've been looking to have the plane in EWR, they just didn't know how long it would take. You're going to suggest that an airline spend a ton of money catering planes stuck on the ground that may not need it in the end? Also its not like food service can be done with trolleys on the ground (per FAA regulations) so it would be quite time consuming.

There are lots of logistical problems and variables involved in running an airline. If it were that simple it would've been done. Airlines don't make a ton of money, so they have a fine line to walk always.


User currently offlineMattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11693 times:

With 7 airlines providing scheduled international service to BWI, why weren't these passengers deplaned, allowed to go through customs and then rescheduled on other flights departing from BWI to their final destinations? Was US Customs not up to the task of handling an unscheduled load of passengers? Were all the international gates occupied at the time?

Lots of questions to be answered. Things definitely could've been handled better.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlineSacamojus From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 228 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11667 times:

I have to say that I am absolutely appalled at this. I can't believe that GROWN ADULTS will act like little children when they don't get their way. Why can't people just appreciate the small things in life. I hope the crew sues the passengers for something, I am not a lawyer but you can sue anybody for anything here in America.

User currently offlineA340Spotter From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1980 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11642 times:

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 4):
Sorry man, I have only one word to this: bullshit.

Hopefully you are talking about the report and not the flight itself?

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 4):
I'd highly doubt that, they most likely timed out.

You'd be wrong.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 5):
There are no catering companies in Baltimore?

Not when an international flight diverts due to ATC/Weather. In this case, the normal routes between the Washington, DC area and EWR were completely shut off due to weather in between the stations. These are purely gas-n-go situations.

Quoting ACFA (Reply 6):
Maybe so, but we don't have the full story

And that's why none of you on this particular thread should be making any comments about it.



"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
User currently offline28thguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11619 times:

Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 11):
I have to say that I am absolutely appalled at this. I can't believe that GROWN ADULTS will act like little children when they don't get their way. Why can't people just appreciate the small things in life. I hope the crew sues the passengers for something, I am not a lawyer but you can sue anybody for anything here in America.

It's not as if they were throwing a fit because they wanted their meal choice was unavailable.

They were subject to FALSE IMPRISONMENT on an aircraft without access to food or working toilets.

I say good for the passengers. The pilot should have been more proactive in demanding a resolution, and good for the passengers in standing up to him and the airport authorities!


User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5408 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11591 times:

Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 11):
These are purely gas-n-go situations.

You'd be wrong then wouldn't you ... as you say  Wink

I can't imagine anyone here giving an explanation that would make this anything but totally unacceptable, and just truly unbelievable. How this happens, or is allowed to happen, is beyond me ... and I've been in this business many years ... although to be honest, that's irrelevant.


.. but please try. I'm willing to listen.


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11582 times:

Ah, yet another "trapped on a plane story." Mixed feelings on this one - on the one hand, sitting on your duff isn't exactly "hellish" or "grueling." More like "dull" and "annoying." I'm not sure what the big deal about "pregnant women with small children" is - they'll either have to sit on the plane or sit in the terminal. The article doesn't mention the plane running out of drinking water, not having working lavs, or the air conditioning going out.

On the other hand, one grows tired of the industry's lack of collective ability to come up with alternative ways of handling these "isolated incidents" that seem to happen every couple of weeks lately. I'm not entirely clear on why the passengers couldn't be let off the plane - the "I" in "BWI" stands for "international", after all, and the flight landed in early afternoon, so why couldn't the passengers just be processed by Immigration? If the plane landed at, say, three in the morning when there wouldn't be any Immigration staff on hand, that'd be more understandable.

Or if it was desirable to keep the passengers on the plane - possibility of proceeding on to Newark on short notice, or the teminal being overcrowded already, if CO catering didn't have anything handy it shouldn't have been that big of a deal to have some sandwiches delivered or dispatch someone to McDonald's with a fistful of petty cash on a McNuggets run (be sure to pick up a few salads for the vegetarians!) As a diabetic, I understand that for some people meal timing is more important than you might think...I always carry a bag of trail mix or nuts with me just in case of a delay. Having food provided for longer delays simply shouldn't be that difficult.

The industry needs to come up with better responses - or at least more friendly-appearing ones - or sooner or later we'll have a federal law mandating disruptive "rights", particularly a "right" to be let off if takeoff is delayed past a set point. And that's just going to make things worse...


User currently offlineSacamojus From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 228 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11559 times:

Quoting 28thguy (Reply 12):
They were subject to FALSE IMPRISONMENT on an aircraft without access to food or working toilets.

The article states that a federal law would not let them off the plane. Then passengers should not sue CO but rather the government to repeal this law. The article does not state that the toilets were not working.

Quoting 28thguy (Reply 12):
good for the passengers in standing up to him and the airport authorities!

I believe the passengers should stand up for a better solution, but they way they went about it was the problem.


User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2001 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11536 times:

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 14):
all, and the flight landed in early afternoon, so why couldn't the passengers just be processed by Immigration?

I can't find the link, but I thought I read all International gates were filled at this time. Google is letting me down...drr


User currently offlineA340Spotter From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1980 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11514 times:

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 13):
You'd be wrong then wouldn't you ... as you say

Any diversion, and let's not focus on the CCS-(BWI)-EWR flight per se, but rather any one that is unscheduled enroute to it's destination due to weather forcing the airport itself or routes enroute closed, are exactly that, gas-n-go situations. Sometimes, an international flight runs out of options where it can land at an airport that even has a customs/immigrations facility (I'll use CLL College Station, TX for example). When a plane lands at CLL, the only thing it can do is get gas, new paperwork and wait until the airport of destination has reopened, or the route has reopened due to weather moving off. Passengers can't get off, trash can't be emptied, food/water can't be added as the plane is still in transit to it's first port-of-entry airport, be it DFW, SAT or IAH in this example.

That particular day, I believe there were upwards of 12 planes that landed in BWI due to this route closure, DL/AA/FL/CO/WN even. If you go back on a flight tracker like red1aviation.com, you can see how planes didn't depart BWI to the north for at least 60-75 minutes.

JSD



"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2603 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11508 times:

Quoting ACFA (Reply 6):
. Its not like the crew held them hostage or anything. Believe me, I'd bet my next paycheque that everyone on the crew wanted off that plane as well. Aircrew don't get paid during ground stops, they would've been doing everything they can to try to communicate the situation to ops.

In this case I consider the crew being held hostage too, without support from the company. I've been in similar situation at YUL too, except the reason was a security breach, not the weather. The cabin crew was as annoyed as the passengers. At the end they timed out...

Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 11):
Hopefully you are talking about the report and not the flight itself?

I'm talking about this statement: thats encouraging disorderly conduct and can make flying a lot more dangerous.

Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 11):
You'd be wrong.

Hmm... CCS-BWI is rougly 1800 mn, approximately 4 hours. Add to it the 7 hour waiting at BWI, that's 11 hours, even without time spent with the flight preparation at CCS. What's the maximum duty time?

Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 11):
Not when an international flight diverts due to ATC/Weather. In this case, the normal routes between the Washington, DC area and EWR were completely shut off due to weather in between the stations.

These are purely gas-n-go situations.

7 hours of pumping, thas a helluva lot of gas.


User currently offlineA340Spotter From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1980 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11481 times:

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 18):
I'm talking about this statement: thats encouraging disorderly conduct and can make flying a lot more dangerous.

Thanks, wanted clarification on that...

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 18):
What's the maximum duty time?

16hr duty day I believe (don't have the FAR in front of me)

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 18):
7 hours of pumping, thas a helluva lot of gas.

 Smile



"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11481 times:

The article mentioned the following in the picture's subtitles (Pic #7):

Quoting The Article Provided from AOL.com:
For its part, Continental Airlines said because the flight was international, federal law prohibited it from allowing passengers off the plane.

Can anyone, with international law knowledge, confirm this??



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2603 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11454 times:

Quoting ACFA (Reply 8):
You're going to suggest that an airline spend a ton of money catering planes stuck on the ground that may not need it in the end?

What I'm suggesting is that every business has to assess the risks associated with running the business and have provisions ready to solve the problems. Failing that is a sign of poor management.


User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5408 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11419 times:

Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 17):
Any diversion, and let's not focus on the CCS-(BWI)-EWR flight per se, but rather any one that is unscheduled enroute to it's destination due to weather forcing the airport itself or routes enroute closed, are exactly that, gas-n-go situations.

It was more your 'gas-n-go' phrase.

Gas-n-go doesn't usually mean 'gassing' and then 'n'ing for 5hrs before 'going'  Smile


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineNonrevman From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1297 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 11371 times:

It is hard to make assumptions on this one without some specifics, however there are a few thoughts on this one.

(1) Most diabetics who are seasoned travelers know to bring more than they think they need. Actually, the same could be said for people with small children, especially infants. Of course, supplies eventually run out (see #4)

(2) It was interesting to note that New York has passed a law requiring passengers to have fresh air, access to lavs, snacks and water if the delay exceeds three hours. Failure to comply would result in fines of 1000 dollars per passenger.

(3) This kind of thing does seem to be happening more and more lately. As far as press coverage goes, I think it all started with the infamous incidents with Northwest at Detroit back in 1998 or 1999. That was right around the time when the passenger bill of rights talk was really getting active. Years later, some very comparable stories are occuring.

(4) In the passengers defense, there will eventually be a point reached where the only logical thing to do is to let them off the plane. The diabetic will eventually need the insulin, the infant will eventually need another diaper change, food, or water (a diaper bag can only hold so much), or general hunger and thirst set in. There is going to have to be a contingency plan for this. Prolonging hunger, thirst, unsanitary conditions, and another other activity which goes against nature cannot hold on beyond a certain limit regardless of whose fault it is.

(5) In the defense of the flight crew, I really doubt they had any idea that the delay would be that long. Just like the passengers, the pilots have to wait to find out what is going on. There is usually now way to predict what will happen. The situation could be resolved in 15 minutes or it could be in several hours.

Obviously, there is not an easy solution to situations like these, because they have been going on for years now.


User currently offlineExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 11313 times:

Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 17):
When a plane lands at CLL, the only thing it can do is get gas, new paperwork and wait until the airport of destination has reopened, or the route has reopened due to weather moving off. Passengers can't get off, trash can't be emptied, food/water can't be added as the plane is still in transit to it's first port-of-entry airport, be it DFW, SAT or IAH in this example.

See, this is part of what I mean when I say that part of the problem is that the industry (including the government) is not thinking proactively. Why should the local Customs/Immigration officer-in-charge not have the authority to override the "port-of-entry" restrictions for unusual situations, at least to allow for trash/lavatory emptying and catering delivery, with appropriate security supervision? It simply shouldn't be that big of a deal.


25 ATLAaron : You clearly do not have kids.
26 ModernArt : Hmmm, someone "in the biz" telling others not to comment on the pathetic way their biz solves (or doesn't solve) problems when they occur. I think I'
27 AA767400 : Here is the problem. When weather hits, no airline can expect how long or where things are going to happen. This plane diverted to BWI because of wea
28 Ikramerica : Again, just like the LAX breakdown this week, this is NOT THE SAME AS what happened this winter. Further, this can happen anywhere in the world from d
29 ULMFlyer : Assuming both of you are right (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), i.e., the situation was due to (asinine) federal regs, then the consultan
30 Venezuela747 : Granted CO probably should have done a better job. There are a few rules and regulations your average joe passenger doesn;t understand. It's an intern
31 KITH : I buy a plane ticket. Here, Continental, here is $2,000 for a ticket. OK. Now I paid Continental $2000 for them to get me from A-B (CCS-EWR say). They
32 Mike89406 : Does anyone take in to consideration that this could be part Media Hype coupled with the increase of technology as they both increase I seem to recoll
33 GuamVICE : Hey while they're at it, why not sue God or Mother Nature for causing all this trouble? I'm sure that'll get them somewhere *sighs*
34 CALPSAFltSkeds : Unfortunately, Hugo Chavez was not on the flight on the way to the UN. At least the passengers got out of CCS.
35 Ultrapig : I don't understand it at all. Airliens are experts at logistics. They sent hundreds of planes across the world everyday. If a plane is diverted to a
36 Tsnamm : BWI is a CO station...however there's a bit more to it than just "calling",,,see above....
37 ImperialEagle : You've got that right! There is no excuse whatsoever for holding pax hostage. Without the pax there would be NO airlines or airline jobs. It is time
38 LTBEWR : Perhaps it is going to take a number of well publicized lawsuits including some going to trial or local laws as recently done in NY City, to get some
39 FlyHoss : Yes, it's quite ironic isn't it? Treat the people entering legally this way - and fining any airline who lets the passenger deplane before clearing I
40 ImperialEagle : Is it really a law that when a pax purchases a seat on an airline, they forfeit any rights to protect their own welfare whatsoever? If so then the co
41 Tguman : Its the law, whether for a CO jet arriving from Venezuela, or a small piper warrior arriving from Manitoba. As a pilot I must keep my passengers on t
42 Alitalia744 : Which would in theory be fine Ikramerica, but the aircraft landed at BWI at 1:50PM when FIS would be open. This is getting ridiculous.
43 FraT : Sounds perfect in theory. But in reality an airport works a bit different than a Drive Through where you can order and pick up your stuff a minute la
44 STT757 : A couple of things, first Federal Officials would not let them off the plane how is that CO's fault? Second for anyone in the US familiar with flights
45 Mike89406 : While the situation was crazy to say the least, I have to agree if you're going to blame someone blame the US Government for the laws. It's never ple
46 D L X : THANK YOU!! I was beginning to wonder if anyone had actually read the article before flaming Continental.
47 757drvr : Like the other poster said....you obviously don't have kids! I understand what your saying, but that still doesn't make it right for passengers to go
48 Coewraatysaz : The last time I checked, weather did not affect only ONE airline. Chances are if one airline is experiencing irregular operations due to weather, the
49 AASTEW : AA used to cater all A/C and ground stations with non-perishable snack items. Maybe another AA employee can recall this. This was around 2000-2001. Th
50 AA767400 : That does nothing for people. And I highly doubt the Crew did not inform passengers of the situation. MOST passengers don't understand the rules and
51 Cytz_pilot : Seems like a whole series of bad events which individually, wouldn't have been that bad, but collectively, made for a terrible experience. What gets m
52 PAHS200 : US law agree Before people start bitching and sueing maybe they should learn the law michael
53 BlueFlyer : Can anyone explain why the port-of-entry rule does not allow for a change in destination (except in emergencies) ? I could understand a rule like that
54 ImperialEagle : Ultimately,an individual is responsible for their welfare first. It is a natural instinct. If it takes suing the Fed to get things changed---so be it.
55 Slider : Exactly- that's the nature of weather! It's unpredictable when these flights would have been released to EWR. It's called a creeping delay and it hap
56 LINATE : Very well said. Someone needs to put a stop on this abuse! People pay for service and get abused...So sad the air transportation situation in the US.
57 AA767400 : But they are not suing the Feds they are suing the airline. Sue the Government then, but guess what? That won't do much. People will have to tolerate
58 Semsem : Good that New York State is taking action. CO is a nickel and dime operation who could have calmed the passengers by offering food and beverages at le
59 FraT : How do you know, that they didn't offer anything? How do you know, that there still was food and/or beverages onboard?
60 ImperialEagle : If Americans had used that attitude as a standard we would still be British subjects. Customs is still a part of the U.S. Government and we Americans
61 FlyHoss : You're right, it's a service industry, but you're also missing the point. Federal law prohibits an airline from deplaning the passengers unless they
62 PPVRA : Yup, I agree. Can't help but side with the pax here. This happened sooner than I thought it would. . .
63 ImperialEagle : As I said, the pax should be offered a disclaimer to sign when accepting the consequences of their own actions in such circumstances. If they are arr
64 Semsem : Frat they said in the TV video they were offered no food.
65 Wdleiser : I am sorry, but these passengers are utter morons. There is no excuse to try and start a riot on the plane. The pilots can't open the door, the F/A's
66 TrvlnMan : You're wrong. Not only are you embellishing the story by adding non-working toilets, but they were not intentionally restrained by physical force, or
67 TrvlnMan : And every passenger has to assess the risks associated with flying.... As has been proven over and over again, CO is not a poorly managed company.
68 Robsawatsky : More likely a demonstration of group dynamics and mass hysteria combined with individual physical and emotional discomfort. People will do in a group
69 Post contains images TrvlnMan : Find me another industry that has to put up with so much crap from the media, false accusations, and unrealistic expectations from people who think t
70 AirframeAS : Some of you guys are forgetting that CO is NOT to blame here one bit. CO is only guilty for following U.S. law, PERIOD! There was NOTHING THAT CONTINE
71 AASTEW : If their was food onboard, trust it would have been offered! F/A's and Pilots do the best we can do in these circumstances. I'm quite sure as an exper
72 TrvlnMan : Right. Why should we be concerned with who or what is coming into this country. It's just plane (sic) asinine! (sarcasm)
73 IAirAllie : Like a lack of gate space. A short update time which gradually turns into a rolling delay. Lack of immigration and customs capacity. A lack of CO gro
74 Post contains images TrvlnMan : It probably has more to do with they way they were acting on the plane than the threat that they were going to run for the border. It's quite a trek
75 Post contains images FlyHoss : Lobbying is quite common, I agree. However, it doesn't guarentee change, far from it in many cases. If it were a guarentee (of change) why are the ai
76 FlyHoss : I apologize for the spelling errors in my post above. I'm not sure why the spelling corrections didn't post and I can't seem to edit the post. Again,
77 Analog : So start trying to get a gate right away. Don't wait 3 hours and then use the excuse that departure might be imminent (repeat every 30 minutes therea
78 Maverick623 : It's amazing how many people here, who are supposed to be aviation enthusiasts and should know how the industry works, don't know squat about it. You
79 Post contains images TrvlnMan : You should sue A-Net - You paid for a product that included spell check. They can't get away with this, I tell you!!
80 TrvlnMan : I wouldn't buy you a pizza, but I'll share mine once you clear customs.
81 PHX Flyer : I was trapped on an outbound plane for six hours myself last year - before taking off for a seven-hour flight to CGN, that is. We had a string of thun
82 Trndskywrd : For some reason, people believe that airlines have it out for its passengers. The misserable experience makes it difficult to retain business and cert
83 IAirAllie : International trash has to be disposed of in a special manner. I belive it is incinerated. This is to protect agribusiness in the US. There is not un
84 IAirAllie : I have experienced long rolling delays in Europe and Asia. If you think Heathrow is immune from this problem have I got news for you. US airlines do
85 ULMFlyer : I don't think anyone in this thread has argued that the US shouldn't be concerned with whoever is coming into the country. On the other hand, you see
86 ULMFlyer : Now this is a reasonable point. But then, it should be a matter of time to deplane, i.e., waiting for the availability of resources, rather than a no
87 IAirAllie : It is still a no-no I was just pointing out that having security watch the catering process was not a viable solution to the restriction.
88 Post contains images TrvlnMan : Have you read some of the comments on this post?? It has nothing to do with whether I think it's alright to keep them on the plane or not - The fact
89 Post contains images AirframeAS : FIrst of all, the pax was not held hostage by the airline. Put it this way: that is the government's doing. The law says, I believe, that the point o
90 ACFA : Welcome to my respected user list!
91 Tercer : A lot of people make the false assumption that the airline is in control of every aspect of the flight, it is not. There are different governing agen
92 IAirAllie : I love those folks on this thread that have made comments along the lines of the Fed needs to get involved make changes. Increased regulation is only
93 Wukka : The interesting disconnect in this thread is between people who work in aviation and the people who ride in the back. I can see how those "in the know
94 Mike89406 : I can see both sides of the coin here and I truly empathize with both. People are going to take whatever side they feel is right based on their values
95 Post contains images ULMFlyer : But do you think it's alright to keep them on the plane because of not arriving at the planned port of entry or not? This is at the crux of my thinki
96 Post contains images Zippyjet : The flight crew in addition to the passengers literally had to bite the pillow and take their screwing. As mentioned, the crew was as left in the dark
97 Post contains images ImperialEagle : Its o.k.----nobody's perfect.
98 FlyHoss : What if the diversion had been on a fight from EWR to CCS that diverted to another city in Venezuela? Would we be having this discussion? I suspect th
99 Analog : You're probably right. Either that or everyone would be blasting Chavez for his government's horrible treatment of the pax. In the end it doesn't rea
100 JGPH1A : As long as passengers have the correct documentation, what possible difference can it make where they clear Immigration ? Sounds like a stupid bureauc
101 Goaliemn : I'm thinking that wouldn't have matter here, since law won't let them off the plane. Its not an airline decision/delay..
102 MBJ2000 : I can't believe how you people try to find excuses for CO and the federal laws! So what happens if in a similar situation a pax dies on a plane becaus
103 TrvlnMan : Yeah, I can see how devestating it will be to CO when they win on the basis that they had no control over the weather or BWI's ability to process int
104 Analog : Is that really true? What if the plane needed to be serviced and would be stuck for 2 days? What if there was a bad snow storm that closed BWI for tw
105 Post contains images Tercer : Pax don't die on airplanes, they die in the jet bridge What would the French authorities do if passengers tried to walk off the plane an circumvent t
106 IAirAllie : Unlikely because people are let off in a medical situation, and there is medical equipment on board. If their health is that bad they are as likely t
107 IAirAllie : Ooh snap! If ever there was a country that loved it's protocols and bureaucracy. I say this with much love my dear sister and her French fiance live
108 Falcon84 : Alternate cities for landing are on the captains computerized flight plan. BWI is enroute between CCS and EWR. What the hell does it mean they should
109 Analog : Okay, so when does it become legal to discharge passengers at an airport other than the originally scheduled airport (for international arrivals)? Wh
110 Copter808 : I have to wonder how this discussion would go if CO had deplaned and rebooked the passengers as soon as they landed--assuming arrangements could be ma
111 IAirAllie : I imagine that there is a long list of things they must do in order to accomodate unexpected flights. I do not work for the CBP but I do know of flig
112 JGPH1A : Not care in the slightest, most probably. Passport control at NCE isn't even manned between midnight and 7am. If you're flight arrives after that tim
113 FraT : Did you read the whole thread? It doesn't look like. CO followed the laws. Why do you want them to sue CO? They would have broke the law and probably
114 AA767400 : A little mellow dramatic don't you think? Changed at anytime? We have been waiting for that change for a long time. And with all that has happened th
115 Post contains images Falcon84 : Excellent post. I agree with you on every point. I think we should compensate these people quite substantially in some form, but it fhey're going to
116 IAirAllie : Who is the "we" that should be compensating these people. God for creating the weather? CO for adhereing to the laws of the land? The federal governm
117 A340313X : Brilliant! Welcome to my respected users. Whether or not it was law, whose fault it was, what could have been done etc. etc. there seems to be a dist
118 XJETFlyer : This is getting old.... When will the Airlines stand up for their customers and demand changes to make things easier for themselves and us? I'm disapp
119 Post contains links Klwright69 : I remember talking to a lawyer about something else. But I feel what she said can be applied here. She said that if you are suing, you need to be in a
120 Falcon84 : "We" as in CO. These people don't deserve a windfall, but CO should compensate them for what they went through, in a reasonable manner. It's called "
121 Klwright69 : Absolutely true!!!
122 Socal : Stupid, just one of those things you have to deal with when flying International, especially when flying in to the US.
123 EWRCabincrew : Not so. I have diverted to cities (due to weather and other circumstances beyond the airlines control) other than my original destination within Euro
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