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Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet  
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4161 posts, RR: 36
Posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6139 times:

Quote:
Bahamasair’s ageing fleet is currently being reviewed as management at the national airline continues to mull proposals from three aircraft manufacturers for replacement aircraft.

Managing Director at Bahamasair Henry Woods told the Bahama Journal, however, that acquiring new aircraft would likely not take place in the short term.

"We have recently been in talks with three aircraft manufacturers; the Brazilian Embria Air, the Canadian Bombardier and Boeing aircraft company," he said.

"We have had formal presentations from these manufacturers for replacement aircraft for our fleet down the road. We could not put a date to it but we are presently doing a fleet review for the purpose of replacement aircraft for the existing fleet."

http://www.jonesbahamas.com/?c=45&a=13750

Interesting that they don´t consider any airbus, even though that might simply not have been mentioned. Might be an interesting decision, given their current main stage lenghts the Q400 and the possible Q400X might be very suitable for the Bahamas-Florida missions with a small number of either A319/B37G or Embraer 190s/CRJ900/1000s doing the longer routes.


Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5902 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6051 times:
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I thought Bahamasair already ordered some 737NG's and 787's.

User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6764 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6039 times:

Here's hoping for:

Q400 (replace the Dash-8 they already have)
73G (replace the 732/73C)
788 (new longhaul)



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6019 times:

Don't hold your breath people  Embarrassment

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Interesting that they don´t consider any airbus

"A32X has too much excess range"...that's what a UP executive said.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 2):
Q400 (replace the Dash-8 they already have)

Not gonna happen, many routes cannot support the 50 seat DASH-8s in service ATM, let alone a 70-seater.

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
A319/B37G or Embraer 190s/CRJ900/1000s doing the longer routes.

There is no longer routes! (unless you include the periodic charters or flights to KIN and SDQ)  Silly

With that being said, I can see an order for ~4-6 E-jets to replace the 1981 vintage 737-200s.



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineBloodyrascal From Bahamas, joined Mar 2007, 191 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5922 times:

Ok heres the deal sad to say i wish i could see the 787 aircraft for my national aircarrier but its not going to happen. Heres what i say should go down. they should obtain some embraers to replace there real old 732s. and have them fly the florida routes and NAS-HAV and probably NAS-PLS. and NAS-KIN. they should get 4 of them. I think that they should keep the dash8s for a little while longer and start to build freeport up as a secondary hub by starting florida routes especially FPO-MCO. Seeing that a daily beech19 aircraft serves it and they could probably have 2wice daily on that route. add more freequencies on there FPO-FLL route. etc and even restart FPO-MIA. Also if Bahamasair wants to to LongHaul flights like NAS-LGW. etc they should obtain a older version 767 model. and they can also use it on some short to medium haul flights for charters and start there expansion within the states and Canada NAS-JFK, NAS-BOS, NAS-ORD, NAS-YHZ etc. And for there family island routes they can have the dash8s on the more profitable routes like NAS-FPO, MHH,TCB,ELH,RSD,GHB and GGT. and then obtain smaller aircraft for the other routes. I really cant wait till the airport in NAS is expanded on and rebuilt because the idea sounds really nice and I honestly think that if Bahamasair looks at there schedule and revamps there schedule so that NAS can finally become a true hub for Bahamasair and have it so that passengers can actually MAKE there connecting flights to the family islands or wherever they may be. and when they build over the airport it will hopefully run alot smoother for connections and thats how those family island flights will be alot more full. I am away in Canada. Do you know how many people have told me they rather fly to the states then connect in Nassau. cause in The States there is order and what not. My friend flies to MIA Just to get to freeport from YYZ-MIA-FPO

Instead of YYZ-NAS-FPO. I would like for Bahamasair to at least try and do something and get a new management or become privatised please cause yall jus sittin dere raising your debt. I give my grandfather props (basil sands is my grandfather) while he was chairman he managed to acquire to more jets and 2 dash8s and manage to decrease the amount of delays and what not


User currently offlineFpofllflyboi From Bahamas, joined Jun 2005, 234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5769 times:

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Interesting that they don´t consider any airbus, even though that might simply not have been mentioned.

You probably hit the nail on the head here. A few years ago they were in talks with Boeing, Airbus and Embraer. Boeing's offer was to pricey for them, Airbus didn't have suitable equipment but Embraer came the closest with a good financing offer but nothing ever came out of it.

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 3):
There is no longer routes! (unless you include the periodic charters or flights to KIN and SDQ)

Longer routes could be created if there is a possible opportunity for revenue which may come from hotel charters/junkets similiar to what Laker Bahamas did in FPO.

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 4):
add more freequencies on there FPO-FLL route. etc and even restart FPO-MIA

Can't wait to see how NK does on that route starting December. Grand Bahamians favour FLL over MIA and Nassuvians favour MIA.

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 4):
My friend flies to MIA Just to get to freeport from YYZ-MIA-FPO

Well AC used to fly YYZ-FPO or YUL- FPO before. Why not just try to restart that with an E-170/E-190. There are still quite a bit of Canadiennes/Canadians that live in FPO.


User currently offlineBloodyrascal From Bahamas, joined Mar 2007, 191 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5662 times:

Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Reply 5):
Well AC used to fly YYZ-FPO or YUL- FPO before. Why not just try to restart that with an E-170/E-190. There are still quite a bit of Canadiennes/Canadians that live in FPO.

Air Canada isnt interested in expansion withthin The Bahamas right now.

And If i was them I would jump on that oppurtunity


User currently offlineVictorKilo From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5635 times:

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 4):
and they can also use it on some short to medium haul flights for charters and start there expansion within the states and Canada NAS-JFK, NAS-BOS, NAS-ORD, NAS-YHZ etc.

They don't need a 767 for that - all of those routes listed could be operated with an E170/E190, as well as NAS-DFW, NAS-MEX, NAS-PTY, NAS-CCS, and pretty much every flight Bahamasair could fly with a full plane, with the exception of NAS-LGW. The A32x series is more range than they need to buy - why spend more per plane so you could theoretically fly NAS-LAX nonstop, a flight that won't make you enough money to pay for the extra cost per plane?


User currently offlineFlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7149 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5463 times:

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 4):
The States there is order and what not. My friend flies to MIA Just to get to freeport from YYZ-MIA-FPO



Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 4):
Instead of YYZ-NAS-FPO. I

It would be great to see Bahamasair have real hub become a true flag carrier with some more flights. But YVZ-MIA-FPO makes more sense than flying down to NAS. MIA-FPO is a shorter flight and you have preclearance customs in YYZ which is a breeze to go through.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6764 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5454 times:

This is still my preference:


Modified Airliner Photos:
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Design © Trevor de Verteuil
Template © Yves Myer




Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineFpofllflyboi From Bahamas, joined Jun 2005, 234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5348 times:

This would be cool if they got some F-100



Modified Airliner Photos:
Click here for bigger photo!
Design © Bobby Catone
Template © RP Abraham


[Edited 2007-08-18 00:26:49]

[Edited 2007-08-18 00:27:36]

User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5348 times:

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 4):
NAS-JFK, NAS-BOS, NAS-ORD, NAS-YHZ

Those flights don't need a 767! If we wanted to waste tax-payers dollars, London would be alot more fashionable. A 100 seater is alot more realisitic for the aforementioned routes

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 4):
FPO-MCO. Seeing that a daily beech19 aircraft serves it and they could probably have 2wice daily on that route. add more freequencies on there FPO-FLL route. etc and even restart FPO-MIA

A route supporting a 19-seater doesn't mean it can support a 50-seater. Based on that logic, does that make FLL-Andros Town eligible for a 50-seater?

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 8):
It would be great to see Bahamasair have real hub become a true flag carrier with some more flights

IMO they are a "true flag carrier" they fly where Bahamians reside and visit (namely Florida and select Caribbean islands), if they opened up all the routes I see proposed (ORD,BOS,YYZ,RDU,DEN,TPA,CCS,YUL,etc) they'll just be a brainchild of the tourism department.

Anyways, I think this is the best bet for UP and new planes (much better colours too)    :

Modified Airliner Photos:

Design © Fabio Lorenzato
Template © Jetabout

[Edited 2007-08-18 00:26:54]


http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineScooter01 From Norway, joined Nov 2006, 1204 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5315 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 11):
A route supporting a 19-seater doesn't mean it can support a 50-seater. Based on that logic, does that make FLL-Andros Town eligible for a 50-seater?

This brings back some memories:

On a return trip to ASD after a day of shopping in NAS back in '75, a guy brought some 2x4s with him. They were too long to fit in the cargo-hold, so where did they put them? On the cabin floor in the DC-3.

Scooter  smile 



"We all have a girl and her name is nostalgia" - Hemingway
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8673 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5306 times:

Well I think the E190 is the best jet for their ops. It has the range, pax capacity and cargo that UP needs. If not E-Jets, I would expect them to get some 735's for the interm.

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineFpofllflyboi From Bahamas, joined Jun 2005, 234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5300 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 13):
Well I think the E190 is the best jet for their ops. It has the range, pax capacity and cargo that UP needs. If not E-Jets, I would expect them to get some 735's for the interm.

That seems to be the general concensus, now if they would only take heed.


User currently offlineFreshlove1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5250 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 2):
Here's hoping for:

Q400 (replace the Dash-8 they already have)
73G (replace the 732/73C)
788 (new longhaul)

Q400 - could probably be used on several routes as it could hold plenty more cargo/pax then the DASH-8's they got now

73G - yeah you got to get something more efficiant to replace the 737-200's although the 200 is a solid aircraft but it may be time to upgrade the fleet although if the 200's are paid for does it really balance out to get new 737's and have to pay lease fees compared to the current fuel and MTC fees for the 200's ?

788 - yep no doubt. I think they would probably use that for the NAS-RDU service


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32737 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5215 times:

The point of Bahamasair is to fly Bahamians where they need to go. They do not need to get caught up in trying to cater to tourists. Air Jamaica did, and look at the mess they are in. Bahamasair needs a new fleet, but their route network is absolutely fine. To the United States, the only gaps I see are Tampa-Nassau and Miami-Freeport. I also think that a daily flight to Port Au Prince, serving the large Haitian community in New Providence, would be great.

While it would be nice to see them flying throughout the East Coast catering to tourists, it won't work. Look at how busy a destination Mexico is for American tourists. Mexican airlines, however, are barely flying any of the vacation routes (from Cancun, for instance, the only trans-border service on a Mexican airlines are three daily Mexicana flights - one to Los Angeles and two to Miami). Tour operators perfer to use US carriers, and travel agents perfer to book on US carriers. It is a simple matter of greater scheduling flexibility, typically better on-time performance, and the percieved notion that a US airline is safer than a foreign airline (I'm not saying they are, and UP has a great safety record, but that perception is still there). This isn't going to change.

The ideal new Bahamasair fleet, in my opinion, would consist of four 737-700s and ten Dash Q400s if they decided to go new. However, even if they were to acquire 737-400s and Q400s second hand, it would be a huge improvement. The 737s are absolutely nessecary for routes to Miami and Fort Lauderdale because of the need for cargo. With four 73Gs, they should be able to operate about eight daily turns to Miami and six to Fort Lauderdale. The Dash planes are perfect for intra-island routes and secondary routes to Florida, as well as their services to Jamaica, Cuba, and the Turks & Caicos.

Bahamasair has fallen out of favour in South Florida, with Bahamians and Floridians alike, as they have garnered a bad reputation for old aircraft, long delays, and lost baggage. A new fleet will go along way to fixing this.

[Edited 2007-08-18 05:38:03]


a.
User currently offlineTransIsland From Bahamas, joined Mar 2004, 2045 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 5129 times:

Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Reply 5):
Grand Bahamians favour FLL over MIA and Nassuvians favour MIA.

Speak for yourself! I'm a Nassauvian and I LOATHE MIA!

Sadly, UP is not run like a business, thus the decision won't be solely based on UP's needs (when they acquired the Dash-8, their consultants had advised them to order the F50...)

UP needs a B732 replacement, first and foremost. They need a fully grown jet, because of the cargo requirements. If they're looking at new planes, they have two options: A318 or B736. If they're looking at used planes, I reckon they might want to find a B735. (Remember, they're only operating 3 B732s, so we don't need a large number of replacement aircraft) All the RJs would meet the pax and range requirements but not the cargo requirement. UP would be in the same mess again they found themselves in before 1992, when for a while they had no jets. Better to have excess range than too little cargo space!



I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5122 times:

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 1):
I thought Bahamasair already ordered some 737NG's and 787's.

787? Considering their longest route is what, NAS-HAV (unless there's something I am missing) seems rather excessive eh? I agree the E-jet series would fit nicely into their current system, and could allow them to expand into the U.S. northeast (though unlikely). It would be nice to see the Q400 perhaps on the MIA, FLL, and PBI runs, maybe adding TPA and putting it into MCO. I don't know what their inter-island loads are like, but as someone pointed out, it may be too much aircraft.


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8673 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5031 times:

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 15):

788 - yep no doubt. I think they would probably use that for the NAS-RDU service

Please tell me your joking right?

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 18):
I agree the E-jet series would fit nicely into their current system, and could allow them to expand into the U.S. northeast (though unlikely).

Doesn't US code share with UP?

Ok, my theory is that UP will look at the 736, E190, 735, and A318 for the jets. The prop choices are the ATR 42/72, Dash 8 300/400. Now we all know the E190 would seem most likely if they CAN afford new jets. If not, the 735 would seem better. For the props I would go the Dash 300Q and or Dash 8 200 if they still make them. That would be a good fit for UP fleet.

I think UP would rather code share on longhaul and not order 788. If they had high density runs for cargo and pax, then the 783 might make a good fit but the 788 wouldn't fit into their fleet with the current problems. Maybe in the future but not now.

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4958 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 19):
I think UP would rather code share on longhaul and not order 788. If they had high density runs for cargo and pax, then the 783 might make a good fit but the 788 wouldn't fit into their fleet with the current problems. Maybe in the future but not now.

Are the Bahamas even a preferred destination for European vacationers? AFAIK, no European carriers fly there, scheduled (BA maybe?) or charter, although I'm sure they get a few charters. Seems as if most Euro travellers prefer destinations in Cuba, and those such as Puerto Plata, Punta Cana, St. Maarten, etc.


User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7152 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4936 times:

My two cents worth.
UP has never been fully capitalized, with fleet renewal in play, the best the govt. will do - yes the govt. - is to get some second hand a/c, best would be the B-737 anything above the 200 and not the 600, 700 series would do fine. The Dash-8 with 50 seats is the best compromise if looking at a single fleet for interisland ops, it's too large for some - seat capacity - and slightly too small for others.

Biggest thing the govt. can do - both the last and this one - is to really start / continue improvements of the Family Island airports, lights would be ideal for all. This would allow UP the ability to use a/c more efficiently, and reduce the number of a/c required for its schedule. The last few years has seen some improvement in the inter-island routes mainly due to the increase in the number of Dash-8 on premises, however, they paid a hefty price for that. Until they can operate flights into some islands after sunset, their fleet will have to either have high utility rates during daylight hours, or more a/c than necessary.

Long term, I agree with some poster above, let UP serve its citizens, don't worry about the tourist market. As long as they can provide a bridge to Miami for example, tourist will always have a way to the Bahamas.


User currently offlineFpofllflyboi From Bahamas, joined Jun 2005, 234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4935 times:

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 17):
Speak for yourself! I'm a Nassauvian and I LOATHE MIA!

Ha ha, hence my name FPOFLL. Grand Bahamians luv FLL. Of course this may be because of the Discovery Cruise Lines' FPO-FLL daily service with the opportunity to bring back huge amounts of cargo.

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 20):
Are the Bahamas even a preferred destination for European vacationers?

Not like it was in the 70's and 80's. Yes, only BA has scheduled flights to the Bahamas, namely NAS.


User currently offlineATCT From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2287 posts, RR: 38
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4917 times:

The 717 wouldve been a perfect aircraft....but its no longer in production. (obviously).

The A318 / 736 / E170-190 / CRj7-9 / ATR72 / Q300-400 all fit the bill of current fleet replacement (plane by plane) or as aircraft that can go to a one aircraft fleet.

As many have said, I think the 73's and A320 Fam seem to be too large and excess of what Bahamasair appears to need unless they plan expansion. In their current state, I would say the Q400/CR9/E170 would be the best bets. The E-170 and CR7-9 can easily do the NAS-NYC type runs, so you have room for expansion, yet at the same time would fit the 70 seat role great for interisland/caribbean/florida flights.

ATCT



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8673 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4885 times:

Isnt the NYC market already covered? Also, would Embraer give UP a deal if they went with them? With people talking about new runs and big planes here is the current US routes they fly:

FLL-NAS
MCO-NAS
MIA-NAS
PBI-NAS

Possible additions:

JFK-NAS
ORD-NAS
FPO-MIA

Routes that could warrant a 787:
MIA-NAS
FPO-NAS

After looking at UP's route map I do not see any other routes that warrant a 787. UP can code share via PHL and CLT on US. If they wanted to expand I would suggest asking US to let them fly thier CLT run once they get new equipment or start 3x weekly flight to JFK or BOS.

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
25 TransIsland : First Choice has a once a week charter service from MAN to NAS, and some French carrier flies from Paris to straight to San Sal. My thoughts on Baham
26 Sinlock : I don't agree. The 190 not only has a smaller cargo hold (799 cf) then the 737-200 (875 cf). But the E-Jets typically get a much lower yield of that
27 ERJ170 : My little $0.05 worth.. I know everyone says Bahamasair should stick to what they know and that's Bahamians.. but I really think UP is losing out not
28 MCOflyer : If you want the cheapest option UP should pick up a couple of 733 or 735's. What about a 733QC or 734C? Would UP benefit from a 734C like AS does? Hu
29 Post contains images MD90fan : AirTran offered us a few, but we all know what happened Nope, there is room for a local carrier flying NAS-NYC IMO, it's such a large market with por
30 Trintocan : The problem with UP (like BW, OA, AZ and many others) is the need to balance domestic services to the many Family Islands (after all poeple would need
31 TransIsland : Exactly Talk to the government. No private Bahamian airline is allowed more than 7 a/c... that's why Western Air man's wife has "Vision Air." rofl. R
32 Bloodyrascal : Bahamasair should consider keeping there 732s and make them into cargo aircraft. whatever they decide to replace the 732s with I agree they should NEE
33 MD90fan : 7 DASH-8s: C6-BFG/H/I/J/O/P/W (1 bird is down in Governor's Harbour) Pointless fact: The 737s occasionally trek to North Eleuthera, too. It's not tha
34 Bloodyrascal : Yep Jetblue uses them on the NAS-BOS and once daily on the NAS-JFK also United Airlines sends the E-170 on the NAS-IAD route. Dont underestimate thos
35 MD90fan : The OP was referring to Bermuda, of which is 640miles from the nearest land. I was referring to E-90s serving BDA, but now that your talking about NA
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