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Why Not AA Or DL On SCL-EZE?  
User currently offlineEastern023 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 880 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4290 times:

I remember years ago AA and UA had this route that served as a tag on. Probably inherited from old Pan Am and Eastern. AF left (or about to leave) the route to go SCL-CDG nonstop and AC still operates SCL-EZE-SCL. Why not DL, AA or UA use the route (UA would return to SCL) as a tag on from one of their flights to EZE or SCL?. Planes sit at both airports all day anyway?


AA will Rise Again!
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4259 times:

AA and DL serve both SCL and EZE nonstop, there is little benefit to flying the tag on as few passengers (especially higher yield passengers) are interested in multi-stop flights when nonstop alternatives are available. Since the PA days, the Latin American market has grown dramatically, and both EZE and SCL can support independent flights, so combined flights and tag-ons are no longer necessary. Also consider that there is a lot of capacity on the EZE-SCL route, and fares and yields tend to be rather low.......especially for a carrier operating just one daily flight in each direction (hard to attract business traffic), thus neither DL or AA are interested in flying this route and its probably more cost effective to simply leave the airplane parked at EZE or SCL for the day awaiting for its evening return journey.

User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3594 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 1):
its probably more cost effective to simply leave the airplane parked at EZE or SCL for the day awaiting for its evening return journey.

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that for DL, the 763ERs are rotated through these routes, and the daytime waiting down there is spent with contractors doing some deep cleaning (at lower labor prices).


User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4214 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 1):
AA and DL serve both SCL and EZE nonstop, there is little benefit to flying the tag on as few passengers (especially higher yield passengers) are interested in multi-stop flights when nonstop alternatives are available. Since the PA days, the Latin American market has grown dramatically, and both EZE and SCL can support independent flights, so combined flights and tag-ons are no longer necessary.

The only tags we may in a one off decision by Delta in reference to their EZE and SCL service would be

ATL-EZE-MVD

ATL-SCL-COR

-JD


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4203 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 3):
ATL-EZE-MVD

ATL-SCL-COR

MVD and COR are potential new markets for DL......and would be an entirely different case than the OP's question. In any case, if DL were to attempt COR or MVD, its unlikely that they would do tag flights, in todays market, serving destination via hubs, its generally nonstop service or no service to a destination.


User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4181 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
MVD and COR are potential new markets for DL......and would be an entirely different case than the OP's question. In any case, if DL were to attempt COR or MVD, its unlikely that they would do tag flights, in todays market, serving destination via hubs, its generally nonstop service or no service to a destination.

Had a long dinner with a friend here in Dubai last night. He was saying that Delta Air Lines has done very well in the Dubai market, and he has heard that Delta Air Lines is looking to add more service in the region. We talked about the Delta Air Lines globalization and he said that the rumors about new service to South America were on the back burner until new aircraft is brought into the fleet. He also said that his source inside of Delta Air Lines says that Delta is indeed going after Cordoba and Montevideo, however he did not see either route as a standalone entity in turn they would be a tag service if they were attempted daily unless the routes were on less than daily frequency and were along the lines of 3x per week to each destination, requiring only one aircraft per route.

-JD


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3108 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4165 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 5):
He also said that his source inside of Delta Air Lines says that Delta is indeed going after Cordoba and Montevideo, however he did not see either route as a standalone entity in turn they would be a tag service if they were attempted daily unless the routes were on less than daily frequency and were along the lines of 3x per week to each destination, requiring only one aircraft per route.

The problem is you hurt the yields on the primary destinations (e.g. EZE and SCL). DL is doing extraordinarily well to EZE, and is strong in SCL as well. Adding the tagons would mean that you're displacing the high-yield pax going to EZE and SLC.

Think of it this way - if ATL-EZE had lower loads (e.g. 60-70%) but higher yields, a tag-on would make sense. DL would still be able to make money on the EZE segment, while padding the flight with extra passengers as a tag-on. However, it's known that DL's EZE flights are packed and the yields are high as is. If you add a tag-on, you're either turning away EZE pax, or you're running a flight to MVD or SCL that is pretty much all local pax, which as mentioned would be lower yield given the lack of frequency to attract business travelers.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4155 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 5):
Had a long dinner with a friend here in Dubai last night. He was saying that Delta Air Lines has done very well in the Dubai market, and he has heard that Delta Air Lines is looking to add more service in the region. We talked about the Delta Air Lines globalization and he said that the rumors about new service to South America were on the back burner until new aircraft is brought into the fleet. He also said that his source inside of Delta Air Lines says that Delta is indeed going after Cordoba and Montevideo, however he did not see either route as a standalone entity in turn they would be a tag service if they were attempted daily unless the routes were on less than daily frequency and were along the lines of 3x per week to each destination, requiring only one aircraft per route.

Makes sense.....I really dont see ""secondary cities"" in deep South America as a priority for Delta at this time, and niche markets like MVD or Cordoba would work on a 3 or 4 times per week basis without wrecking yeilds due to the limited number of flights to such cities. Tag-ons are just so difficult in this day and age, and as RwSEA so correctly points out, the existing SCL and EZE flights are doing just fine for DL as stand-alone flights. It will be interesting to see how DL handles all of this, and even more interesting to see if DL can make flights to destinations such as MVD or Cordoba work: DL has done great with its flights to primary Latin America destinations but so-so on services to ""secondary destinations"" and before anyone says otherwise, this is not an anti-DL comment, not all flights work out well and I give DL credit for trying some unexpected destinations. So much also depends upon what AA does with these markets, aside from the annoying ATL vs MIA hub issue (I dont want to go there again), markets such as MVD and Cordoba are limited, and its not clear if they could support DL service to ATL and AA service to MIA.

All of that being said, DL probably has other priorities at the moment than Latin American tag-on flights! regards,


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33043 posts, RR: 71
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4088 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
So much also depends upon what AA does with these markets, aside from the annoying ATL vs MIA hub issue (I dont want to go there again), markets such as MVD and Cordoba are limited, and its not clear if they could support DL service to ATL and AA service to MIA.

Following UA's exit from Montevideo, American Airlines now flies Miami-Montevideo non-stop year-round. AA has been quiet on plans for Cordoba, but don't be surprised to see American flying to Cordoba non-stop from Miami with 757s within two years. They are going to watch closely how Copa does.



a.
User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4015 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 6):
The problem is you hurt the yields on the primary destinations (e.g. EZE and SCL). DL is doing extraordinarily well to EZE, and is strong in SCL as well. Adding the tagons would mean that you're displacing the high-yield pax going to EZE and SLC.

RwSEA,

What you say make sense, however to clarify, and I should have said this in the first place what I was told about EZE was that if Delta Air Lines gains the JFK-EZE authority, which it is very much looking to do. At that point and only at that point would and MVD tag be added. As you have properly stated the ATL-EZE flight does excellent as a stand alone route. In reference to SCL-COR, that route would be added as a tag, as the loads from what I have heard are good, not excellent on the standalone ATL-SCL route.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
I really dont see ""secondary cities"" in deep South America as a priority for Delta at this time, and niche markets like MVD or Cordoba would work on a 3 or 4 times per week basis without wrecking yeilds due to the limited number of flights to such cities.

I can fully understand and as my contact said there are other things that warrant more attention than adding tags, or adding new service to South America. Number one is Delta Air Line attaining its aircraft on order, right sizing current TATL routes to be sustainable year round, and to build up its Los Angeles hub.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
DL can make flights to destinations such as MVD or Cordoba work: DL has done great with its flights to primary Latin America destinations but so-so on services to ""secondary destinations"" and before anyone says otherwise, this is not an anti-DL comment, not all flights work out well and I give DL credit for trying some unexpected destinations.

Dutchjet, I fully agree.. Very well put!

-JD


User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4549 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3894 times:

Consider the leg SCL-EZE and vice versa is served by several South American carriers: Lan (LA), Lan Argentina (4M), Lan Ecuador (XL), Aerolíneas Argentinas (AR), Gol (G3).
SCL-EZE: 16 operations including AF on August 17th...



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineMarambio From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2004, 1160 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3881 times:

Too much competition on the route. I read a couple of years ago EZE-SCL was South America's busiest international route, and I tend to believe it still is. Both LA and AR are strong players, for they use their flights as feeders for their intercontinental networks, and now Gol has also found a nice niche with low-cost passengers. AF's been downgrading the route, choosing to serve each destination on its own.

There have been strong rumours about AA starting MIA-COR services. Let's see how Copa does - they started flying PTY-COR two days ago.

Saludos,
Marambio



Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3877 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
It will be interesting to see how DL handles all of this, and even more interesting to see if DL can make flights to destinations such as MVD or Cordoba work:

DL has experimented with 10x weekly SCL service seasonally. Those extra flights might be be candidates for a tag if the loads on them are not so high. 3x weekly to COR seems reasonable, though I'm not sure that the demand to COR would really be seasonal.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3841 times:

Most likely DL would rather fly daytime ATL-SCL/EZE-ATL (given government approval) instead than adding tag-ons from SCL and EZE.


I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3699 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 13):
Most likely DL would rather fly daytime ATL-SCL/EZE-ATL (given government approval) instead than adding tag-ons from SCL and EZE.

SCL is probably not a large enough market to support daylight flights (and EZE may not be either, given that DL relies mostly on connections ex-ATL).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinePapatango From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 523 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3666 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):

The only way Delta would fly this route if they started JFK-EZE-SCL service.


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