Ren41 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1524 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10681 times:
Quoting Simps747 (Reply 1):
Does Boeing ever take A/C in on trade? IE: If you buy 10 brand new 777's, we'll take in your 343's and sell them ourselves?
Though I do not know the full details of the transaction, a few years ago Boeing did take possession of two former SQ A343's and sold them themselves. I wonder how happy Airbus was with Boeing owning a couple A340's..
CinJA From Singapore, joined Jan 2007, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10570 times:
I saw C-GKOL at NRT on Sunday August 12, arriving as AC001 from YYZ. G-KOM apparently arrived the following day according to spotter logs. So I would guess the 345's will still be taking care of some of the longer flights until the rest of the 777s are delivered.
Acey From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 1116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10309 times:
AC 87, YYZ-PVG leaving Friday morning, is a 345. AC 88 coming back is a 343. A pair of 77L's are settled in nicely on YYZ-HKG, and YYZ-NRT and back is a 77W. I don't have the energy to dig through the timetables to find the other 345.
Quoting CinJA (Reply 5): So I would guess the 345's will still be taking care of some of the longer flights until the rest of the 777s are delivered.
Well...the next 777 delivery isn't until November, when 703, a 77L, arrives. Rumour has it, however, that the 345's are going to TAM in October. We'll have to see.
Quoting PADSpot (Reply 6): They cared more about why they lost a A343 customer to Boeing's 777.
The 343 is closer to the 777-200ER than to the 77L's and 77W's which AC bought in this new order...they would have never in a million years considered buying new 343's. If anything, they would have bought more 345's for cargo/range reasons, but fuel burn for those birds, as Airbus haters put it, is "astronomical". AC is also diverging from four-engined aircraft.
[Edited 2007-08-17 09:21:18]
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
PADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10116 times:
Quoting Acey (Reply 7): The 343 is closer to the 777-200ER than to the 77L's and 77W's which AC bought in this new order...they would have never in a million years considered buying new 343's. If anything, they would have bought more 345's for cargo/range reasons, but fuel burn for those birds, as Airbus haters put it, is "astronomical". AC is also diverging from four-engined aircraft.
Ehmm, I answered to a post that asked how Airbus thought when Boeing accepted a trade-in of some Airbus planes. Aside from your fuel statement being rather exaggerated (even Airbus haters wouldn't put it that way), it was not my intention to get into any sort of A343 vs. B777 discussion ...
Pilot21 From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1430 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 10023 times:
Quoting Ren41 (Reply 2): Though I do not know the full details of the transaction, a few years ago Boeing did take possession of two former SQ A343's and sold them themselves. I wonder how happy Airbus was with Boeing owning a couple A340's..
Airbus was furious with SQ/Boeing when this deal went through. At the time, Airbus actually threatened to withhold any sales/tech support from the Carrier who took them off Boeing's hands. However, after a short while, common sense prevailed and the planes were supported when they found homes around the world. Annoying Boeing with a threat is one thing, but annoying such a big and important carrier as SQ and the people who bought the A340's in the end was just stupid, so they backed off. The big issue Airbus had with the deal was that Boeing were the registered owners of the A340's for a short time I believe, so Airbus had to send them all the service bulletins/updated tech notes etc. Talk about the enemy infiltrating your base!
The reason that everyone is assuming them going to TAM is that TAM lists them already as a part of their fleet projection (see page 24 of http://www.b2i.cc/Document/1214/TAM_ER_2T07_eng.pdf ). According to this information the airbus wide-body fleet will contain 15 aircraft by the end of the year. They currently operate 10 A332 (see page 8) and will get another three new A332 by the end of the year. It was confirmed by JJMNGR that the two other aircrafts will be two used A345, being delivered in October (see TWO A345 To TAM (by JJMNGR May 6 2007 in Civil Aviation) ). It seems that the two A345 of AC are the two only ones obviously available on the market. So it is the assumption here that TAM will get them.
First of all, the planes are owned. Secondly, Air Canada's latest quarterly report (early August) has the planes leased out and gone from the fleet by year-end. It is possible, of course, that the lease is short term and the planes are still on offer for a longer term.
Da man From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 887 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9445 times:
Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 10): The big issue Airbus had with the deal was that Boeing were the registered owners of the A340's for a short time I believe, so Airbus had to send them all the service bulletins/updated tech notes etc.
Heck, Airbus even delivered an A340 directly to Boeing
FLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8441 times:
Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 20): Who will do the painting for JJ's A345's since AC ownes them and doesnt lease them
It's a negotiated issue, but very good chance AC's paint shop will secure this contract. Believe that most recently, they painted a leased ex 767-300 that was sent to Virgin Nigeria. Not sure about the 340-300 that went to Aerolineas Argentinas.
Bmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2986 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7426 times:
Quoting Simps747 (Reply 1): I would suspect they were either returned to who they were leased from or sold. Isn't something like 95% of A/C's fleet leased?
The A345s were ordered in 1997 by then CEO and Airbus lover Lamar Durrett. (Robert Milton tried to entice the 777 on him, to no avail).
Most of the 762s and 763s are owned.
Most of the A320s are leased.
Most of the 319s are owned.
Half of the 321s are owned/leased
Most of the A340s are leased.
Most of the A330s are owned.
All of the ERJs and CRJs are owned.
The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
: For the time being, the A340-500s have been re-assigned to Toronto - Shanghai.
: That can't be correct as the two 345s are the only A340's that AC actually owns.[Edited 2007-08-17 22:44:35]
: Well as of last night the 16th of August we had both 345's in YYZ, both in the hangar. 952 was having an engine change and a repair to an inboard slat
: Well why not use it for commercials. Even our competitors want our aircrafts!!!!!
: More than two, that's just the ones that were taken ex-factory Somewhere between indignified and infuriated.... *WRONG* ...heck, Airbus publically re
: That's revisionist history. The A345 and A346 orders were placed after AC had added the 333 to the 343. As Milton recounted the 777 vs 333 competitio
: the ENTIRE SQ fleet went to Boeing and they were all leased out It was only when CX appeared as a likely recipient of the exSQ planes did Airbus agre
: They are going to TAM for MAD and FRA services star-up
: I believe Boeing remarketed all 17 SQ 343s, including a couple that hadn't been delivered when SQ decided to switch to the 772ER.
: 3 to CX 4 to GF 8 to EK 1 to EY 1 to CI (and now to QR) one to GF and the one for CI were never delivered by Airbus to SQ
: The thing that complicates this web of confusion is that AC updated their listing with SpeedNews almost a month after the announced TAM acquisition a
: The agreement with TAM has been cancelled as of last week. AC will retain ownership of the aircraft for the time being. As the fleet plan does not in
: I am not doubting your claim because it appears a reasonable explanation to my reference, however is there any publicly available statement to this e
: Alright, but how is this possible then ? TAM To Begin GRU-FRA Eff. Nov 30 With A345 (by LipeGIG Aug 18 2007 in Civil Aviation)
: No idea, as things in this business change by the hour. Presently I am working with Crew Planning, in arranging the movement of crews (pilots, one f/