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Where Are AC's 345s?  
User currently offlineZBBYLW From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 1993 posts, RR: 6
Posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10244 times:

So now that YYZ-HKG are on the 77L what has happened to the two 345s?


Keep the shinny side up!
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSimps747 From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10178 times:

I would suspect they were either returned to who they were leased from or sold. Isn't something like 95% of A/C's fleet leased?

Does Boeing ever take A/C in on trade? IE: If you buy 10 brand new 777's, we'll take in your 343's and sell them ourselves?


User currently offlineRen41 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10119 times:

Quoting Simps747 (Reply 1):

Does Boeing ever take A/C in on trade? IE: If you buy 10 brand new 777's, we'll take in your 343's and sell them ourselves?

Though I do not know the full details of the transaction, a few years ago Boeing did take possession of two former SQ A343's and sold them themselves. I wonder how happy Airbus was with Boeing owning a couple A340's..

R41


User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10105 times:

I believe HKG is actually being altered with the 777-300ER/A340-300/A340-500 and LHR is also seeing the A340-500 until sometime in October when they go to TAM.


No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineAC777LR From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 487 posts, RR: 40
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10105 times:

They will be back to China soon PVG, they are flying some YYZ to LHR routs right now.


Member since April 2000
User currently offlineCinJA From Singapore, joined Jan 2007, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10008 times:

I saw C-GKOL at NRT on Sunday August 12, arriving as AC001 from YYZ. G-KOM apparently arrived the following day according to spotter logs. So I would guess the 345's will still be taking care of some of the longer flights until the rest of the 777s are delivered.

CinJA


User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9808 times:

Quoting Ren41 (Reply 2):
I wonder how happy Airbus was with Boeing owning a couple A340's..

I don't think they cared much. They cared more about why they lost a A343 customer to Boeing's 777.


User currently offlineAcey From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 1051 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9747 times:

AC 87, YYZ-PVG leaving Friday morning, is a 345. AC 88 coming back is a 343. A pair of 77L's are settled in nicely on YYZ-HKG, and YYZ-NRT and back is a 77W. I don't have the energy to dig through the timetables to find the other 345.

Quoting CinJA (Reply 5):
So I would guess the 345's will still be taking care of some of the longer flights until the rest of the 777s are delivered.

Well...the next 777 delivery isn't until November, when 703, a 77L, arrives. Rumour has it, however, that the 345's are going to TAM in October. We'll have to see.

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 6):
They cared more about why they lost a A343 customer to Boeing's 777.

The 343 is closer to the 777-200ER than to the 77L's and 77W's which AC bought in this new order...they would have never in a million years considered buying new 343's. If anything, they would have bought more 345's for cargo/range reasons, but fuel burn for those birds, as Airbus haters put it, is "astronomical". AC is also diverging from four-engined aircraft.

[Edited 2007-08-17 09:21:18]


If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
User currently offlineAirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9592 times:

I'm really going to miss all the airbus A340s, I really enjoy flying them, it doesn' t really bother me how the performance of the a/c as long it takes me from point A to point B safely.

User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9554 times:

Quoting Acey (Reply 7):
The 343 is closer to the 777-200ER than to the 77L's and 77W's which AC bought in this new order...they would have never in a million years considered buying new 343's. If anything, they would have bought more 345's for cargo/range reasons, but fuel burn for those birds, as Airbus haters put it, is "astronomical". AC is also diverging from four-engined aircraft.

Ehmm, I answered to a post that asked how Airbus thought when Boeing accepted a trade-in of some Airbus planes. Aside from your fuel statement being rather exaggerated (even Airbus haters wouldn't put it that way), it was not my intention to get into any sort of A343 vs. B777 discussion ...


User currently offlinePilot21 From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1386 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9461 times:

Quoting Ren41 (Reply 2):
Though I do not know the full details of the transaction, a few years ago Boeing did take possession of two former SQ A343's and sold them themselves. I wonder how happy Airbus was with Boeing owning a couple A340's..

Airbus was furious with SQ/Boeing when this deal went through. At the time, Airbus actually threatened to withhold any sales/tech support from the Carrier who took them off Boeing's hands. However, after a short while, common sense prevailed and the planes were supported when they found homes around the world. Annoying Boeing with a threat is one thing, but annoying such a big and important carrier as SQ and the people who bought the A340's in the end was just stupid, so they backed off. The big issue Airbus had with the deal was that Boeing were the registered owners of the A340's for a short time I believe, so Airbus had to send them all the service bulletins/updated tech notes etc. Talk about the enemy infiltrating your base!

Pilot21



Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
User currently offlineOceansWorld From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9435 times:

Quoting Simps747 (Reply 1):
I would suspect they were either returned to who they were leased from or sold.

According to Airlinerlist, they're to be returned to their lessor in October, before going to JJ.


User currently offlineFlyTUITravel From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 723 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9125 times:

To all you saying they are going to JJ, which is bugging me, ACs 345s are still available for lease and therefore can't have been leased or sold to TAM! Heres the link to prove it http://www.globalplanesearch.com/view/all/AllALLE.htm

FLYTUITRAVEL.


User currently offlineJog From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 273 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9048 times:

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 12):
To all you saying they are going to JJ, which is bugging me, ACs 345s are still available for lease and therefore can't have been leased or sold to TAM! Heres the link to prove it http://www.globalplanesearch.com/vie...E.htm

The reason that everyone is assuming them going to TAM is that TAM lists them already as a part of their fleet projection (see page 24 of http://www.b2i.cc/Document/1214/TAM_ER_2T07_eng.pdf ). According to this information the airbus wide-body fleet will contain 15 aircraft by the end of the year. They currently operate 10 A332 (see page 8) and will get another three new A332 by the end of the year. It was confirmed by JJMNGR that the two other aircrafts will be two used A345, being delivered in October (see TWO A345 To TAM (by JJMNGR May 6 2007 in Civil Aviation) ). It seems that the two A345 of AC are the two only ones obviously available on the market. So it is the assumption here that TAM will get them.


User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1666 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9044 times:

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 12):
To all you saying they are going to JJ, which is bugging me, ACs 345s are still available for lease and therefore can't have been leased or sold to TAM! Heres the link to prove it http://www.globalplanesearch.com/vie...E.htm

First of all, the planes are owned. Secondly, Air Canada's latest quarterly report (early August) has the planes leased out and gone from the fleet by year-end. It is possible, of course, that the lease is short term and the planes are still on offer for a longer term.


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8982 times:

Quoting Simps747 (Reply 1):
Does Boeing ever take A/C in on trade?

Yes. For a time Boeing was the biggest buyer of used A340s in the world!

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 11):
Quoting Simps747 (Reply 1):
I would suspect they were either returned to who they were leased from or sold.

According to Airlinerlist, they're to be returned to their lessor in October, before going to JJ.

TAM announced recently they they were buying the AC aircraft. They are due to leave AC soon.

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 12):

To all you saying they are going to JJ, which is bugging me, ACs 345s are still available for lease and therefore can't have been leased or sold to TAM! Heres the link to prove it http://www.globalplanesearch.com/vie...E.htm

That info was last updated in May, TAM probably had not signed the agreement at that stage.


User currently offlineSAS A340 From Sweden, joined Jul 2000, 788 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8938 times:

In pure look perspective i will miss the 345! they were stunning to see in AC. No quads in AC fleet now right?  bored 


It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
User currently offlineDa man From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 887 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8883 times:

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 10):
The big issue Airbus had with the deal was that Boeing were the registered owners of the A340's for a short time I believe, so Airbus had to send them all the service bulletins/updated tech notes etc.

Heck, Airbus even delivered an A340 directly to Boeing  duck   flamed 



War Eagle!
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8883 times:

Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 16):
No quads in AC fleet now right?

They still have a343's IIRC, but those are leaving the fleet too as more 777's arrive I believe.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineOceansWorld From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8562 times:

Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 16):
No quads in AC fleet now right?

Wrong.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 18):
They still have a343's IIRC

Yes, ten.

http://www.ch-aviation.ch/airlinepage.php?code1=AC

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/fleet/index.html


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8690 posts, RR: 16
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7990 times:

Who will do the painting for JJ's A345's since AC ownes them and doesnt lease them.

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7879 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 20):
Who will do the painting for JJ's A345's since AC ownes them and doesnt lease them

It's a negotiated issue, but very good chance AC's paint shop will secure this contract. Believe that most recently, they painted a leased ex 767-300 that was sent to Virgin Nigeria. Not sure about the 340-300 that went to Aerolineas Argentinas.



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineOceansWorld From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7650 times:

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 19):
They still have a343's IIRC
Yes, ten.

Small correction here, they indeed still have ten A340s in their fleet but eight of them are A340-300s.


User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7587 times:

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 21):
Not sure about the 340-300 that went to Aerolineas Argentinas.

I believe that was painted in the desert.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2379 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6864 times:

Quoting Simps747 (Reply 1):
I would suspect they were either returned to who they were leased from or sold. Isn't something like 95% of A/C's fleet leased?

The A345s were ordered in 1997 by then CEO and Airbus lover Lamar Durrett. (Robert Milton tried to entice the 777 on him, to no avail).

Most of the 762s and 763s are owned.
Most of the A320s are leased.
Most of the 319s are owned.
Half of the 321s are owned/leased
Most of the A340s are leased.
Most of the A330s are owned.
All of the ERJs and CRJs are owned.



The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
25 Polaris : For the time being, the A340-500s have been re-assigned to Toronto - Shanghai.
26 Viscount724 : That can't be correct as the two 345s are the only A340's that AC actually owns.[Edited 2007-08-17 22:44:35]
27 Spotter : Well as of last night the 16th of August we had both 345's in YYZ, both in the hangar. 952 was having an engine change and a repair to an inboard slat
28 Sandager : Well why not use it for commercials. Even our competitors want our aircrafts!!!!!
29 ConcordeBoy : More than two, that's just the ones that were taken ex-factory Somewhere between indignified and infuriated.... *WRONG* ...heck, Airbus publically re
30 Sebring : That's revisionist history. The A345 and A346 orders were placed after AC had added the 333 to the 343. As Milton recounted the 777 vs 333 competitio
31 Trex8 : the ENTIRE SQ fleet went to Boeing and they were all leased out It was only when CX appeared as a likely recipient of the exSQ planes did Airbus agre
32 Thering : They are going to TAM for MAD and FRA services star-up
33 Viscount724 : I believe Boeing remarketed all 17 SQ 343s, including a couple that hadn't been delivered when SQ decided to switch to the 772ER.
34 Trex8 : 3 to CX 4 to GF 8 to EK 1 to EY 1 to CI (and now to QR) one to GF and the one for CI were never delivered by Airbus to SQ
35 Vega : The thing that complicates this web of confusion is that AC updated their listing with SpeedNews almost a month after the announced TAM acquisition a
36 LongHauler : The agreement with TAM has been cancelled as of last week. AC will retain ownership of the aircraft for the time being. As the fleet plan does not in
37 Vega : I am not doubting your claim because it appears a reasonable explanation to my reference, however is there any publicly available statement to this e
38 Post contains links OceansWorld : Alright, but how is this possible then ? TAM To Begin GRU-FRA Eff. Nov 30 With A345 (by LipeGIG Aug 18 2007 in Civil Aviation)
39 LongHauler : No idea, as things in this business change by the hour. Presently I am working with Crew Planning, in arranging the movement of crews (pilots, one f/
40 OceansWorld : In other words, lets wait and see.
41 LongHauler : Exactly! I do find it curious though when internally, Flight Operations announced the cancellation of the deal with TAM, and subsequent desert storag
42 CayMan : It is not inexpensive to store the a/c....does AC not have any use for them in time being that could free up other 763s maybe for route expansion?
43 Aad665 : Or to speed up XM project?
44 Sebring : Except for China, the current management of AC isn't into hollus bollous expansion. Right now, AC management does not believe it has the right aircra
45 SunriseValley : This is a change of heart from years past !
46 Sebring : Flying a 345 in place of a 767 will only add to the costs of the project. That said, the plan is to finish the 767 XM work by next June at the latest
47 Boeing764 : Why has Air Canada reverted back to the A340-300 on the Vancouver to Tokyo (flight 003/004) route? The 777-300ER started operating it at the beginning
48 Sebring : There are a variety of reasons, some competitive, some driven by training requirements and some driven by opportunity. The bottom line, however, is t
49 SunriseValley : Please refresh my memory; how many are to be converted ?
50 LongHauler : ALL of Air Canada's A340 flying will be ended by the end of this year. This is why it was decided that if the A340-500s are not yet sold or leased, t
51 Pnwtraveler : This has nothing to do with new routes but seems as good a place as any to ask a question. There are a few 767-300 with hideous old brown interiors? D
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