Aileron11 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 183 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 21434 times:
I checked to see if this has been discussed before did not find any thing, so my question is if or when AA orders the 787 how would they paint it, it is not like aluminum skin we see polished today on AA fleet. Does anyone think AA would come up with new livery just for 787 or they would paint it silver to make it look polished. Should be interesting to see how this turns out.
ZuluLima From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 266 posts, RR: 3 Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 21399 times:
My guess is light grey all over with the usual stripes & AA logo. Check AA's A300 photos and look at the composite areas for a general idea. I'm sure some won't like it, but I think it might look sharp (when clean anyway). AA doesn't seem to have interest in changing a livery that has worked well for them for decades. Expect a simple grey-for-polished metal scheme.
HPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 21378 times:
I personally love the gray glistening in the sun... anyways... a few years ago AA calculated how much they saved but not completely painting the aircraft.. given oil prices, I don't see them changing...
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10188 posts, RR: 63 Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 21296 times:
Why not just get silver-ish or even metallic paint? Sure, it will obviously never be as shiny as bare metal, but if bare metal isn't possible on the all-composite 787, then I think metallic or near-metallic paint is a reasonably good substitute to keep the same general appearance and effect.
I'm thinking something along the lines of how Virgin Atlantic has repainted their aircraft only, if it is possible/available, maybe a bit brighter -- closer to silver and farther from Virgin's gray.
Adam T. From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 957 posts, RR: 6 Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 21154 times:
My guess would be the metallic paint as well. Do you all think that perhaps AA may update the look only slightly if 787s come on order similar to what Qantas is doing for the A380? A new metallic paint look might not be all that bad looking with a slightly updated AA livery.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26685 posts, RR: 83 Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 21133 times:
There are metallic paints that work great with CFRP structures. McLaren F1 paints their CFRP Formula One chassis to looks exactly like they were chromed. I am sure AA will be able to get a paint that looks like polished Al.
Wilcharl From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1158 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 21133 times:
They already have techs working @ MCI on a plan to polish out the composite barrels. They will be delivered painted and after a few yrs, against Boeings wishes they will apply paint stripper and polish the composite to a chrome like shine.
Anyone ever hear of the AA-5 that a chemical stripper was used on??? sad sad sad
Futurecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 21087 times:
Coincidence that Boeing chose grey for the engine nacelles on the 787 as the color of choice for max fuel savings? I think not. Could this shade of grey perhaps be the color AA is considering using all over the 787? Magic 8 ball says possibly.
Byrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2140 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 20998 times:
Now even I'm getting tired of this question. I've answered it at least four times on this board.
AA will paint it using the same process used on this BMW.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
ZuluLima From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 266 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 20915 times:
Quoting JBo (Reply 12): In reality though, that's probably far too expensive and heavy to apply on a mass scale.
Not to mention the fact that AA's scheme is polished aluminum, not chrome. Chrome a/c would look tacky and likely be much more difficult to maintain than an auto paint job.
Tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 81 Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 20865 times:
Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 3): a few years ago AA calculated how much they saved but not completely painting the aircraft.. given oil prices, I don't see them changing...
Quoting Stitch (Reply 8): There are metallic paints that work great with CFRP structures. McLaren F1 paints their CFRP Formula One chassis to looks exactly like they were chromed. I am sure AA will be able to get a paint that looks like polished Al.
There are a very limited number of paints you can use on the 787 upper fuselage and wing surfaces because you need to provide heat and UV protection to the CFRP. I don't believe a metallic paint is one of them. I'm sure they exist, like in the McLaren example, but I doubt those paints have been engineered up to where they need to be for an aircraft paint.
Nitrohelper From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 463 posts, RR: 5 Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 20494 times:
Quoting ZuluLima (Reply 13): likely be much more difficult to maintain than an auto paint job.
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 14): but I doubt those paints have been engineered up to where they need to be for an aircraft paint.
Just wondering why it would be be difficult to maintain? Are the cleaning chemicals that different?
Do the modern coatings on an airliner use the base & clear coat system ?
What is the engineering difference in metal coatings vs composites is it also the top coat, or primers only?
Do de-icing chemicals come into play with current coatings,are all aircraft painted with the same basic materials, or do they vary with use in different parts of the globe?
Tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 81 Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 20217 times:
Quoting Nitrohelper (Reply 15): Just wondering why it would be be difficult to maintain? Are the cleaning chemicals that different?
Do the modern coatings on an airliner use the base & clear coat system ?
What is the engineering difference in metal coatings vs composites is it also the top coat, or primers only?
Do de-icing chemicals come into play with current coatings,are all aircraft painted with the same basic materials, or do they vary with use in different parts of the globe?
The whole point of aircraft paint is that it not be difficult to maintain. It's designed to stay nice and shiny with negligible colour fade while flying in direct sunlight at high altitude (high UV exposure) in a periodic ~500 mph wind for 10 years. That's why it costs several hundred dollars per gallon.
Airliners do not use a base/clear-coat. It's a primer+enamel or primer+urethane system. On aluminum parts, there's also a chromate conversion coating under that.
For metals vs. composites the major thing is the primer but there are topcoats that you can use on metal (for example, dark colours) that you don't want to use on some composites.
De-icing plays into durability...the paint has to be able to accept the assorted fluids (deicer, fuel, skydrol, grease, oil, soap) with limited ill effects.
I imagine that repainting uses all kinds of paints around the world but the OEM's only have one or two types that they typically use. There may be multiple vendors per type.
Braniff1960 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 77 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 18185 times:
Wasn’t there some in-depth thread about John Travolta having problems getting
the underside of his 707 painted in the USA because the FAA told him silver
paint would make some kind of negative image on radar?
He then took the 707 to Mexico and had it painted there?
Not sure if I read this on A.Net or somewhere else…...
AAJFKSJUBKLYN From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 836 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 18185 times:
I dont think AA will change their logo, quite honestly I like it, but it is very costly to do so. If and when they do I am sure it will happen at a time when a significant plan replacement occurs rather quickly or something along those lines..when it makes the best economic sense. Just my two cents.
Anyway, here is the history behind the logo: (from Wikipedia)
In the late 1960s, American commissioned an industrial designer to develop a new livery. The original design called for a red, white, and blue stripe on the fuselage, and a simple "AA" logo, without an eagle, on the tail. However, American's employees revolted when the livery was made public, and launched a "Save the Eagle" campaign similar to the "Save the Flying Red Horse" campaign at Mobil. Eventually, the designer caved in and created a highly stylized eagle, which remains the company's logo to this day. In 1999, American painted a new Boeing 757 in its 1959 international orange livery.
Coa747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 17224 times:
What about a metalic finish similar to Northwest, is that possible to do on the 787. I think that would look great, well some variation of it anyway don't won't to look exactly like Northwest.
KSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 17183 times:
Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 10): Coincidence that Boeing chose grey for the engine nacelles on the 787 as the color of choice for max fuel savings? I think not. Could this shade of grey perhaps be the color AA is considering using all over the 787? Magic 8 ball says possibly.
They just used gray as an example...that release said that Boeing recommended a solid color for the nacelles for max fuel savings. So you can paint them gray, blue, purple, or pink and as long as they are one solid color they will have the max fuel savings.
ORDagent From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 823 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 16475 times:
If they do update the logo I don't think they need to throw the baby out with the bath water ala DL with the widgit. I see them taking the AA off of the tail and making the eagle bigger. Minor tweaks to the stripes are all I would do. The current livery is so iconic that can't change it too drastically as it really doesn't look that dated even after 40 odd years. In fact I won a hat from my AA sales rep and the logo is only the "Scissor Eagle" with no AA underneath and only in one color. It looks really elegant and simple.
25 Ceray: With the arrival of the 787, American could tweek it's color scheme for a little update. Indeed, American's livery has stood the test of time. It true
26 LuisKMIA: There are of shiny grey schemes out there, such as NW and VS. They would likely go that route and maintian the traditional livery, which will continue
27 JBo: Considering NW has ordered and will be receiving the 787, I sure hope so.
28 Carls: Why everybody is so confident with AA 787 order? No body was expecting Eastern Airbus A300 order, and everybody was caught with their order. Could hap
29 OB1504: Do you really expect AA to order Airbus after the AA587 fiasco?
30 Tripleboom: I'm sure they could care less given that it wasn't the A300 at fault. Pilot overcompensated for "wake turbulence" from a JAL 747
31 ScottB: Yup, I am sure that AA management just loved it when Airbus publicly criticized AA's pilot training... without taking any blame for the human factors
32 ELTENELEVEN: go to wal-mart and buy their aluminum colored paint it worked well when i painted the wings of my model airplanes as well as the American DC-10 i pai
33 Mymiles2go: Because we all live in this world called 'reality'. Airbus has about the same chance of getting AA to buy a plane anytime soon as they do getting Gre
34 OB1504: I'm aware of that, but Airbus tried to pin the blame on AA, resulting in bad blood between the two companies. That's the kind of animosity that doesn
37 ZuluLima: One thing I think they should consider with either color is the addition of the stylized eagle on underwing engine nacelles. Both sides so you can see
38 Hloutweg: Hello everyone, First of all, I'd like to introduce myself and you may call me for my user name or Luis (or Louis). I've been following this website f
39 Cha747: Hello All, I actually asked this question about 3.5 years ago (before it was officially called the 787) on this thread: 7E7's Impact On AA's Livery Th
40 Amazonphil: It was probably due to pilot over correction as you state..mostly, BUT this aircraft in particular was involved in a sever turbulence encounter on a
41 SpinalTap: They could always just stick with the polished aluminium look by using paint much like Aeroflot or Jetstar:
42 Tdscanuck: Those planes look awful because they weren't originally built as aluminum-finish airplanes. You have to make sure the grain directions of the fuselag
43 474218: The reason the Air Canada 767 looked so the way it did is because during the process of originally painting the Alclad aluminum skin had to be abrade
44 Justloveplanes: Well, you answered my questions in that they HAVE to paint the aircraft. Massive 767 fleet = 787-8, 9 not A358/9. I'm sure AA, DL and CO were dead in
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