AA787823 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11641 times:
After the crash of Eastern Airlines flight 401, they kept operating the flight (same route JFKMIA) right up until they shut down. Usually after a major accident airlines tend to retire flight numbers.?
I was reading a long article about the crash last night. It includes the only known picture of N310EA, and some photos of the FAs hours before the crash, and a discussion board of survivors.
MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4578 posts, RR: 31
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11608 times:
Not a rule of thumb, only when the flight number is being used so much in press and reports that it scares passengers and staff away from flying it. Apperently in the 1970s they were less bothered and the number '401' didn't put off alarm bells like it would nowadays.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
L1011Lover From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 1064 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 11493 times:
Quoting MEA-707" class=quote target=_blank>MEA-707 (Reply 1): Not a rule of thumb, only when the flight number is being used so much in press and reports that it scares passengers and staff away from flying it. Apperently in the 1970s they were less bothered and the number '401' didn't put off alarm bells like it would nowadays.
This was very well put by MEA-707!
Nowadays when a plane has crashed the media usually refers to the airline and flight number. Pan Am 103 (which was also known as the Lockerbie bombing, but still the flight number was big in the media, especially in the US on CNN), TWA 800, Swissair 111 being some good examples of flight numbers done away with after a crash.
Back in the 60´s and 70´s the media referred mostly to the aircraft type involved in the accident. The flight number almost wasn´t of any importance.
Remember that in the 60´s jets were pretty new and in the 70´s the widebodies were introduced and came online.
The crash of Eastern flight 401 was the first crash ever of one of the new "Jumbo" widebody planes hence it was referred to in the media as "The first Jumbo airliner crash". Other headlines included: "Giant jetliner crash in the Florida Everglades" etc. The flight number was never really mentioned in the media or in newspaper headlines, maybe not even in every newspaper report.
TWA flight 800 was involved in another disaster in 1964 but only after the 747 crash in 1996 the flight number was retired. In 1964 a 707 that had flown from New York to Paris, then to Rome, and was to continue to Athens. 49 people were killed in the take-off accident and by odd coincidence, this flight was also TWA 800. The media never referred to the flight number but instead reported a TWA Boeing 707 accident in Rome.
PanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 11354 times:
I agree with all the above statements, but just to clarify, Eastern 401 was the first crash to be specifically referred to by its flight number. Prior to this, there really are no crashes equated with their flight number (except to those in the community associated with the accident). But because 401 was the first wide-body accident (something speculated on by newspapers as being horrific), this incident was talked up more than average.
The next major accident to be identified in this manner was PSA 182, even though there were other accidents in between (TWA 727 at IAD in 1974, the KLM/Pan Am 747 collisions, and a Southern DC-9 in Georgia), the graphic images of the 727 as well as AA 191 at Chicago being photographed (and subsequent DC-10 hysteria) cemented the tradition of referring to a crashed flight by its flight number.
Oddly, even with a couple of movies made with the flight number in the title, no one at Eastern seemed to realize how infamous the number 401 was becoming - I mean, who doesn't associate Ernest Borgnine with Don Repo?
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
Awthompson From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 584 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7829 times:
I would like to make an obvious point that numbers in themselves mean absolutely nothing and just because you are travelling on a flight under a flight number previously involved in an accident, there is no increased chance of something going wrong.
However one reason to drop a number after an accident, at least for a few years, would be to avoid needlessly bring back unpleasant memories to relatives and airport / airline employees who had close involvement.
Of course there is also the sales side where the public might avoid certain flight numbers for reasons of superstition. I would certainly not be one of those people
Milesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2078 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7053 times:
Eastern just didn' change the number. AA changed 191 to 195 after the ORD accident in 1979. DL dropped 191 as well. The Comair Flight was operated as DL 5191, not OH 191 which was only an internal designation. I had just graduated from college and was watching TV the night EA 401 crashed in the Everglades. The crash was referred to as Eastern 4-0-1. And of course the book came out a couple of years later, and then a made for TV movie called Crash, was a docudrama about the accident. Eastern Flight 401 was infamous. And I flew on it a few times after the accident in 1973 and 1974. 900 pm departure JFK-MIA. It later operated with A-300 equipment as well as L-1011.
JettaKnight From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6538 times:
Quoting OB1504 (Reply 12): The flight plan was filed as "COM191" (Comair 191), although it was Delta Connection flight 5191
I suppose you're correct on a technicality, but I believe the thread has been discussing the public's perception of different flight numbers. I doubt that the average traveller would ever associate Comair 5191 with Eastern or Delta 191.
Milesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2078 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6244 times:
NW may not be using 710 now, but they have in the past, that is after the March 1960 Tell City crash. Browsing a 6/15/68 OAG shows NW 710, a B3F (707-320B/C) operating MSP-ORD-ATL-MIA. UA continued to operate UA 826, the 800am ORD-IDL DC-8 that collided with the TWA L-1049 through the fall of 1963, some 3 years after the crash.
SkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6111 times:
Quoting Awthompson (Reply 9): I would like to make an obvious point that numbers in themselves mean absolutely nothing and just because you are travelling on a flight under a flight number previously involved in an accident, there is no increased chance of something going wrong.
You are quite correct, but it's surprising the number of people in this world that are superstitious. Look at Brussels Airlines for example. Having to add a 14th dot to their livery after rumors began of the unlucky 13 dots. Silly I know, but it does happen.
IADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1705 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5978 times:
It's also quite notable that most of the ones that get remembered are particularly easy numbers to remember (TW 800, SR 111, AA 191, UA 93, PA 103, KE 007). Things like the recent TAM crash (3054), the AA Long Island A300 crash (587) and the Comair (5191) seem often get other names because of the difficulty of remembering the numbers. Some get easy numbers forgotten because of more famous things about their tragic ends (AA 11, AA 77). Others with reasonably easy ones to remember just seem to fade away in the media, such as Egyptair 990. There's some reason to it, but not entirely that much.
LongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 6059 posts, RR: 43
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5802 times:
Air Canada used to name their flights from YUL-YYZ-LAX the "California Galaxy", with associated napkins, candy dishes, playing cards, menus, etc.
On July 5, 1970 AC flight 621 a DC-8-63, crashed at YYZ on the first leg of the flight to LAX, with the loss of 109 souls. It received a lot of publicity of course, and the flight's name "California Galaxy" was in the headlines for weeks. While Air Canada kept the flight number the same for years, the name of the flight was very quietly dropped. In fact, the whole concept of naming flights dropped shortly after at Air Canada.
It wasn't until Air Canada changed the practice of numbering flights by aircraft type to destination region, did the flight number change from AC621 to AC791, which stands today.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!