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US Airways Will Be Sending A321s On Transcons  
User currently offlineTupolev154B2 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1332 posts, RR: 2
Posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2767 times:

I just did a flight search for a flight to LAX for sometime next year and I found that there will be two nonstop flights from PHL to there on US Airways that will be operated by the A321. Hopefully this plugs the debate about whether A321's will be sent on transcons by US.

Tupolev154B2

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2600 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2635 times:
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The PHL-LAX is actually the first route the A321 will be used for.

Initial cities for US Airways A321 service are;
Charlotte
Denver
Los Angeles
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Tampa

US Airways appear to have no doubts about the A321s range. Incidentally all 3 customers for the 93T A321 are using the aircraft (or will when delivered) to the limits of it's range.

Spanair use A321s on their flights from the Canaries to Scandiavia, with flying times of 5-6 hours.
Air 2000 will use their A321s on London(LGW)-Luxor flights from May, with a flying time of 5-5h30min.
US Airways will deploy their new A321s on Transcontinental flights from the word go.

It appears the airlines have more confidence in the range of the aircraft than the airliners.net "experts" who obviously know the A321 can't operate such long flights!


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8018 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2596 times:

Crosswind,

I'm really crossing my fingers on this one! Let's hope the fuel capacity of the higher-weight A321 will allow US to fly PHL-LAX in both directions year-round.

Our well-founded concerns is because in wintertime the high-altitude headwinds are stronger, and that will cut down on the range of the A321 flying westbound. This is not an issue with the 757-200 that US also flies, since the 752 can already fly trans-Atlantic routes with its current fuel capacity.


User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2588 times:

Any info as to when the first flight into Denver will be?

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2557 times:

How many of US Airways flights to Denver will be on a A321? Currently US Airways brings in the A319 into Denver. Will that be changed to a A321? Or will US Airways be adding more flights to Denver, and flying them on a A321?

Any help would be appreciated.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlinePhilly phlyer From United States of America, joined May 1999, 317 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2551 times:

The new higher gross weight A321s (which carry more fuel) are supposed to have the same range as the A319s. While the US A320s do not have the legs to make the PHL - LAX transcons in winter, the A319 has been doing just fine. A lot of the transcon flights where US Airways now is using A319s originally were to be done with A320s (that is what US Airways originally put on these routes). The HGW A321s (with the same range as the A319s) will provide the additional seats that have been needed on heavy travel days.


User currently offlineDeltaAir From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1094 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2532 times:

I hope that the A321 can make these runs without range shortfalls. United and US had problems with the A320s in the past.

User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 7, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2522 times:

I normally don't like posting these types of posts, but does anyone know if/when US Airways will bring the A321 into BOS. They fly every other type here, so I would hope that they fly the A321 here. I really want to see one. I know BOS wasn't listed in the preliminary cities, but does anyone know that as more arrive, they may add A321 service to BOS?



Thank you!

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineSJC>SFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2489 times:

I'm pretty sure that the A320's, and definetly the A319's can both make full transcontinental flights. In February I flew from San Jose (SJC) - to IAD and back on a United Airlines A320 outbound and a 319 i believe on the inbound. That flight must be similar in length to the routes discussed before so I would think that passenger capacity would be the more pertinent issue in introducing the A321 to the routes. And since US does operate B75s i dont see why they wouldnt already be using those, like American does on their SJC and SFO to JFK routes.

User currently offlineL-1011-500 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 368 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2485 times:

It is not that odd that USAirways is utilizing such an aircraft on this route; AA is using a 738 on some transcons as well and I believe the 738 is a direct competitor to the A321.


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Photo © Michael Carter



Boeing Rules!  

L-1011-500



User currently offlineJeb From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2455 times:

I don't mean to be a downer, or anything, but...I think that the USAirways and Airbus people might (just might) know what they are doing. If they say that the A321 can fly TransCon, guess what? I think it probably can. Why would an airline send an airplane unable to fly a specified distance on a flight of that length? There is no doubt, that Airbus and USAirways (or other operators) have a better idea of the capabilities of their equipment than any one of us. How can we possibly know any more than the real experts (even if we read every book or secondary source imaginable, we still don't have access to primary information?)

Jeb!



User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8018 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2406 times:

LH423,

Where did you get that picture of a completed US Airways A321? Are you near the airport where the A321 is assembled?

I think the A321's primary routes will NOT be USA transcon flights. I expect the A321's to be used on north-south flights between BOS, LGA, PHL and PIT down to Florida, generally busy routes most of the year. That will free up more US 752's to fly USA transcon flights.


User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2405 times:

So, is USAirways keeping the 757s?

-maiznblu_757-
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/traversecityairport



User currently offlineBoeing747-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2360 times:

RayChuang, check out http://www.justplanes.com if you want to see where that picture came from of the A321.

User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2342 times:

Ray, I believe that USAir has made several announcements as to the placement of their A321's (transcon). They will supposedly replace the transcon 757's, which will be moved to the N.E.-FLA market.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineChiawei From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 944 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2334 times:



FLY777UAL wrote:
-------------------------------
Ray, I believe that USAir has made several announcements as to the placement of their A321's (transcon). They will supposedly replace the transcon 757's, which will be moved to the N.E.-FLA market.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L<

I wish US airways all the luck they can have. But I seriously doubt that US Airways would be able to use A321 round trip.


User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24947 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2328 times:

Why are you all getting so excited over the A321, are US Airways the first operator of the type in the USA? Someone mentioned Spanair A321 routes, they also use them on short trips such as Majorca-Uk ETC


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineGregg From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 327 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2325 times:

Airlines DO put a/c on routes that they will not have the range to fly all the time. USAirways put 737-300 on US transcons that commly stopped in Kansas city (CLT to SEA, BWI to LAX, PHX to PHL,PIT) PAN AM A-300 going JFK to Europe commonly had to stop for fuel (that is why Delta sold them very quickly, and picked up more L-1011 from Air Canada and other airlines).

If the A-321 can't do transcon, it is too bad that USAirways purchased them in the first place. The B757 is ideal for transcon. If USairways wanted something smaller, the 737-800 is great on transcon also. Nothing against airbus, but the (now old) B757, and the NG 737s are great.



User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2300 times:

I am 90% sure the A321 can fly non-stop across the U.S. Again, I could be incorrect. But I am 90% sure of it. The new High-gross version of the A321 supposidly has the range of the A319. The A319 make it across the U.S (round-trip) with no problem. I heard that the A320 isn't capable of trans-con round-trip. Airbus hasn't updated the A320 in a long time. So that is the reason. Airbus does have plans of improving the A320s range to match the A319s and A320. So I am almost positive that the A321 can make a trans-con flight round-trip, in any season. I will email Airbus and double check that. If I get a reply, I'll post it.

So far there have been no wars on this topic. PLEASE keep it this way. NO WARS!

Kind regards to all.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineJet Setter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2301 times:

The 93T A321-200 has been in service since September with Spanair, and it has been doing flights of over 5 hours non-stop on routes like Tenerife-Helsinki, carrying up to 218 passengers.

Virgin Sun and Air 2000 already use their standard 89T A321-200s on flights as far afield as Ovda, Israel, with flying times of over 5 hours. And from May Air 2000 will use the 93T A321-200s on flights to Luxor in Egypt.

Airbus will have made performance guarantees to the airlines, that they will be contracturally obliged to meet, or pay some heavy penalties.

This version of the A321 has extra fuel tankage in the rear cargo hold, which should mean the longer flights should be completed comfortably.

I think you'll find US Airways' use of 737-300s on routes beyond their capabilities was because they didn't have a more suitable aircraft of the right size to use. Pan Am never used any A300s to Europe, they were non-ETOPS A300B4-200s.

People mention aircraft like the MD-11, that fell short of it's targets. However, the technology now exists to predict an aircraft's performance far more accurately than even 10 years ago with the MD-11.

But the main point is that, the 93T version is in service NOW doing those flights every day, that people here are convinced they will not be able to complete without a fuel stop.

I'm not sure what to say when an aircraft is operating flights every day, yet people with no detailed knowledge of that aircraft or it's capabilities, claim it is unable to operate such flights....

Happy New Year!
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineTWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2285 times:

What about JetBlue JFK-OAK/ONT every night? Seems to make it fine.....



User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2285 times:

TWAneedsNOhelp. The A320 CAN make it from JFK to OAK no problem. I never said it can't.


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11410 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2265 times:

Re range of 321: I'm a slight skeptic, and I will believe it when I see it. In all likelihood, the plane will be weight limited on the westbound flights. These flights can be upwards of 6 hours in the winter.

Re dismissal of 757 fleet: Nope, not going to happen. For one, US flies 757/767 schedules with their crews, so commonality of the type argues for keeping the jets. Second, US is trying to expand their currently very limited transcon system. You don't do that by removing planes. Third, US has publicly stated that it is keeping its 757/767 fleet.

Re comparison to 737 series: The 737 model closest to the 321 is the 737-900, not the -800. (It is also narrower, as is the 757 and biz pax like the Airbus more.)



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User currently offlineTupolev154B2 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1332 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2242 times:

So, now that we know that even the 757 won't be having a niche of its own in US Airways's fleet, what are the chances that they will eventually go all-Airbus?

User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (13 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2240 times:

Gkirk:Yes, US Airways is the first American customer for the A321, and the second in North America, after Air Jamaica. Air Canada will be the third. Does anyone else foresee more A321 carriers? Possibly jetBlue. They have been doing very well, is is possible that they could convert some A320 orders for the A321? I think the A321 is the most aesthetic of the three narrowbody Airbus'.

As far as the range: I don't mean this disrespectfully to anyone, but airlines do not just order planes on the hope that they will fill their needs. US Airways probably scrutinized the range, and put it under different weather situations, including strong headwinds on transcon flights. US Airways probably also called up the other 93 Tonne carriers to see how their planes stacked up against various weather situations. When you drop millions, upon millions of dollars, you had better be pretty sure that it is going to do the job.

RayChuang said: "I think the A321's primary routes will NOT be USA transcon flights. I expect the A321's to be used on north-south flights between BOS, LGA, PHL and PIT down to Florida, generally busy routes most of the year. That will free up more US 752's to fly USA transcon flights."

FLY777UAL said: "Ray, I believe that USAir has made several announcements as to the placement of their A321's (transcon). They will supposedly replace the transcon 757's, which will be moved to the N.E.-FLA market.

I believe both of you are correct. FLY777UAL, don't forget, US has 34 A321s on order, which I think is more than enough to cover US Airways' transcons. I think initially they will be deployed on the Transcons, but at somepoint we will see them flying along the East Coast.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
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