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FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL  
User currently offlineAirblue From San Marino, joined May 2001, 1825 posts, RR: 11
Posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5915 times:

From Ryanair web site French version. It seems from 12 november they will souspend all the operation out of CRL.

Réservations suspendues à.p.d. 12 novembre à.p.d./vers Bruxelles Sud Charleroi

Ryanair a suspendu toutes ses réservations à.p.d./vers Bruxelles Sud-Charleroi a partir du 12 novembre prochain. Cette mesure est prise en attendant la résolution des problèmes qui ont cause la fermeture de l’aéroport pendant le week-end du 15 – 17 juin dernier, et ainsi l’annulation des vols pour plus que 22.500 passagers.

L’aéroport de Bruxelles Sud-Charleroi a assure Ryanair que des solutions sont en cours et des lors Ryanair espère pouvoir reprendre ses vols très rapidement. Cependant Ryanair est déterminé à assurer ses vols seulement si la compagnie reçoit l’assurance qu’une éventuelle grève ne pourra plus bloquer cet aéroport international. Un plan d’urgences doit être opérationnel.

Les vols de Ryanair au mois d’août, septembre et octobre à.p.d./vers Bruxelles Sud-Charleroi ne sont pas concernés par ces annulations. En attendant une solution, Ryanair ne fera pas plus de commentaire sur cette affaire.

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7702 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5885 times:
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Any idea as to the actual reason for the suspension?


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3971 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5850 times:
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Ryanair has been demanding that the regional government somehow guarantee a minimum service level in case of future strikes to prevent the cancellation of all flights.

Belgium's right-to-strike is, I think, almost equal to France's and almost absolute. Emergency services (police, fire, EMS), critical functions (such as nuclear plant monitoring) and their essential suppliers (eg: phone service for the police dept) cannot be hampered by a strike. Anything else, including passenger screening at airports, is fair game. Replacement workers are, again, an option in very limited cases, once more not including passenger screening.

If the government gives in to Ryanair, it would be a Pyhrric victory because mass protests will ensue, shutting down the airport far longer than the June strike did.

Ryanair says they waited this long before acting to let the government and unions sort things out. The unions reply Ryanair didn't want to scare passengers away during the very profitable summer season...



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7702 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5827 times:
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Does this in any way link in with this forum topic I presented today?

Ryanair Falls Foul Of The ASA (by RussianJet Aug 22 2007 in Civil Aviation)



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3971 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5660 times:
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Quoting RussianJet (Reply 3):

Only in so much that if Ryanair doesn't get what it wants and makes good on its implicit threat, the carrier really won't have to give a damn about what the ASA thinks of its advertising for CRL.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineFlyTUITravel From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 723 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5535 times:

This isn't so bad... maybe some of the smaller bases will get more planes! Or maybe they will open a MLA base?
LTN could definitely do with more routes!


FLYTUITRAVEL.


User currently offlineBrusselsSouth From Belgium, joined Aug 2001, 628 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5472 times:

Well, I see this announcement as a mean for Ryanair to put pressure on the regional (walloon) governement. Frankly, I can't see them leaving CRL at such a short notice, after all their recent new routes announcements from the airport.

Officially, they have stated that they will resume their post-November 12th flights if the government gives them solid guarantees that strikes like last June will not happen anymore. The government is reluctant to give such garantees as it considers strikes as events out of its control.

But there's something else : according to a trustworthy newspaper, Ryanair is asking 1 million EUR from the government (or is it BSCA, the airport operator ? The paper is not very clear) as a compensation for last June strike. The threat to leave Charleroi completely could simply be some move put pressure on the government (or BSCA). As the brand new terminal is scheduled to open in late 2007 / early 2008, the prospect of Ryanair leaving should indeed put a lot of pressure...

Beside, as far as we know, CRL is a profitable base for FR.

Regards
BrusselsSouth


User currently offlineAntonovman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5374 times:

Has this anything to do with the selling off of a bunch of older aircraft ?
It sounds like just more O'Leary 's blustering and bullying


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5359 times:

How much trust can one have in investments based on a "partnership" with Ryanair ???
If he is trying to operate in an environment without potential strikes,why do they fly to Italy,Spain or France ?
Entrepreneurship is OK ,but blackmail is not a sound basis for future investments of any airport dealings with Ryanair.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7702 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5336 times:
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Does rather seem that they're trying to just put pressure on the airport and local government. As usual, such messing about serves only to cause disruption and stress to the passenger.


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineRyanairCRL From France, joined Dec 2005, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5313 times:

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 2):
Replacement workers are, again, an option in very limited cases, once more not including passenger screening

When there is a strike in CRL they block off the airport, refusing access to anyone. It's actually unlawful in Belgium to stop others from getting to their work but it happens almost everytime there is a strike, not only at the CRL airport.



http://flyingtom.myphotoalbum.com
User currently offlineBrightCedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1288 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5217 times:

I think it's time the walloon government's investment agencies put some money on the table to support a home grown low-cost alternative that will reduce the airport's exposure to Ryanair's any desire.

If Ryanair wants to do politics let them form a party and run in the next elections, if they win a sizeable share of the votes, then they will be in a position to turn old socialist Wallonia into modern day Ireland. Godspeed.



I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11645 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5049 times:

They also announced a complete pull out from NQY when a £5 departure tax was introduced, but today they are still flying there. I'll believe it when I see it basically.


Dan Smile



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineBrusselsSouth From Belgium, joined Aug 2001, 628 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4946 times:

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 11):
I think it's time the walloon government's investment agencies put some money on the table to support a home grown low-cost alternative that will reduce the airport's exposure to Ryanair's any desire.

The idea might seem appealing, however, there is no way the walloon government (through which agency ?) could fund a "low-cost" alternative as you call it.

1. The cost basis in Wallonia (and in Belgium) for that matter would not allow the operation to be "low-cost".
2. The walloon government does not have the money to fund such a venture.
3. If Ryanair doesn't leave ( Smile) then the majority of profitable routes out of CRL are already serviced.

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 11):
turn old socialist Wallonia into modern day Ireland

Wow... A bit of generalization here ! Well, should there be a part of truth in this statement, then the Ryanair base at CRL (or even the whole Charleroi airport growth, not to mention the surroundings) would be a good counter example. Airport strikes are not limited to Wallonia (remember the April strike at Brussels Airport ?). I understand your position, although in the case being discussed by the thread starter, I don't think the "old socialist" government of Wallonia is to blame (the minister in charge of regional airports is from the CdH - Christian democrats, by the way...).

Regards
BrusselsSouth


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4744 times:

Typical FR 'Bold and direct' move. Although if FR do withdraw, those airport workers will be regretting it as most of them will no doubt loose their jobs - Wizz Air, Blue Air, Jet4You and OnAir surely couldn't keep all of CRL's existing employees in work

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 5):
This isn't so bad... maybe some of the smaller bases will get more planes! Or maybe they will open a MLA base?
LTN could definitely do with more routes!

No room at LTN to base more aircraft. Any expansion will have to come from operating into LTN from other bases



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User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3245 times:
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Ryanair wants 1 million € as compensation but the Walloon Gvt simply cannot give it due to local laws restricting such methods.
So they'll have to fix the issue by another mean. Local politicians flew to DUB hq to try and solve the crisis directly with O'Leary.

I don't see any FR pull-out but if I was a CRL worker I would not play that game a second time though. If you remember the crisis we had during that strike, at one stage the MET workers (security agents at CRL) threatened to block three 737s of FR. So FR decided to "evacuate" the 3 airplanes. This is the problem that has upset and annoyed most FR. And strangely the local media here seem to have forgotten that episode...

They (FR) want clear guarantee that such trick never happens again.


FB.



Life is great at 41.000 feet...
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3167 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3200 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 8):
How much trust can one have in investments based on a "partnership" with Ryanair ???

Not too much, but that's no news. And IMO, it is not only Ryanair who is to blame. The Walloon government decided to build a new terminal: they didn't have to, they wanted to expand their infrastructure themselves. Apparantly, the Walloon government believed that the capacity could be filled.

It is, though, a realistic threat for many of these airports for who Ryanair is a >80% customer. If the airports loses Ryanair service (either due to disagreement, either due to economic unprofitablility or even in the unlikely event of Ryanair collapsing), they have a lot of infrastructure doing nothing. Not only CRL, also GRO, HHN, NRN, NYO or PIK are in a similar situation. The main problem is that it turns out to be hard to attract other carriers when Ryanair has service to the airport; there might be some Wizzair flights and some other odd airlines, but that's about it. HHN, for example, attempts to cover this risk by also developing an impressive cargo section at the airport.

Many other airports do not rely that much on one carrier (BRE, MRS, VLC, ALC, MAD) either will easily find someone to replace Ryanair (STN, LTN, CIA). However, basically an airport like AMS faces a similar risk in the (again unlikely) case AF would decide to dismantle the AMS hub.

On the CRL subject: I do not see them withdrawing flights. They only want that money and a back-up plan. I'd imagine a back-up plan isn't too much too ask? For example, having framework contracts with temporary work agencies to source un-unionized labour force as soon as needed? Maybe even with unrelated French workers (Valenciennes isn't too far away, or experienced people from Lille Airport)?


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3193 times:

If some of the HUB-bases of Ryanair would team up and decide not the pay the 'marketing' fees claimed by the company - what could Ryanair do ??
If Hahn,Charleroi and Girona decide to ask "normal" conditions like the ones obtained from Air Berlin,TUI or Vueling-MOL would be powerless.
They can't all of a sudden find new airports and new destinations for say 20-25 planes.All London airports are filled capacity -wise.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineVarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1594 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3178 times:

Quoting BrusselsSouth (Reply 6):
But there's something else : according to a trustworthy newspaper, Ryanair is asking 1 million EUR from the government (or is it BSCA, the airport operator ? The paper is not very clear) as a compensation for last June strike. The threat to leave Charleroi completely could simply be some move put pressure on the government (or BSCA). As the brand new terminal is scheduled to open in late 2007 / early 2008, the prospect of Ryanair leaving should indeed put a lot of pressure...

this is plain blackmail and Ryanair is not at his 1st attempt!!
recently they asked most French airports from where they are operating to participate to their cost of advertising in the local press or they would review the service to these destinations
rogue and cheap airline in every sense of the word

and I still wonder how you can call Charleroi "Brussels south" or Beauvais "Paris".....only with this they are crooks

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 11):
turn old socialist Wallonia into modern day Ireland

bring the billions of EU subsidies which transformed Ireland to Wallonia and it will be very rich too



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User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3167 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3177 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 17):
If some of the HUB-bases of Ryanair would team up and decide not the pay the 'marketing' fees claimed by the company - what could Ryanair do ??

Extremely interesting situation, but IMO highly unlikely, and MOL knows it. For every airport, there are so many parties involved: the airport management and owner, the local politics, local economy, etc. And let's say that half-way GRO suddenly says "okay, we will agree on the FR conditions if we get the CRL aircraft", than again there is one loser. It's a prisoners dilemma. And imagine what kind of political unrest would occur in the Costa Brava (hotel owners, restaurants, etc) if they would risk the Ryanair inbound tourism? They would never get the backing.

Next to that, I fail to believe that all of these bigger airports are that badly threatened by FR. HHN is operated by Fraport, they need to justify their decisions to the shareholders and IIRC they are about to post a profit for 2007. GRO is operated by AENA: after GRO, they have secured deals for MAD, VLC and ALC as well, and they are continously expanding from GRO: they must be quite happy with it, anyway. NRN is completely privately owned and was very happy with the FR base.

I do believe that there will be some airports on the FR map that pay an awful lot of money to get the service, but IMO this is mostly due to local politicians that prefer the prestige above the value of the taxpayers money. FR knows this, and uses (or, if you want, exploits) the situation. But there again, this is common use for all airlines. Other LCCs or legacy carriers are no better in getting local subsidies, but they keep it more quiet.


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3157 times:

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 18):
bring the billions of EU subsidies which transformed Ireland to Wallonia and it will be very rich too

Fair statement !
There is still this miss-conception around that in Belgium all the Flemish are tough and hard workers ,brilliant business men and entrepreneurs,and all the French-speakes are losers,lazy syndicalists and incapable to create anything.
If the south of Belgium is still heavily socialist minded,there is a change in the way of thinking and doing things.
Wallonia deserves some more interest by investors,in that local universities produce excellent graduates.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3167 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3138 times:

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 18):
recently they asked most French airports from where they are operating to participate to their cost of advertising in the local press or they would review the service to these destinations
rogue and cheap airline in every sense of the word

Can you explain me in what way this is different from what STN did: increase charges by a large percentage and give a "take it or leave it"? The relationship airline-airport is changing: in areas where there is a short supply of airports (London), airports play these games with airlines. In regions where there is an oversupply of airports (Belgium, French provinces) airlines can play these games. I completely agree that it sounds cheap, but IMO it is just though business negotiations. Something that is quite new for the airport-airline relationship, but extremely common in the car manufacturing, computer parts, or airplane manufacturing.

To give an example: Airbus decreases the amount of money they pay their suppliers per item every year: they expect the supplier to be self-learning and they should be able to reduce their cost base every year, and Airbus should profit from this. Blackmail or business? Or the car industry: experts of the manufacturers audit the suppliers, find out where they can reduce costs and then renegotiate contracts. Blackmail or business?

Ryanair does usually not sign long-term deals with the airports. So the airports know that after the contracts expire, the terms may change considerably. And: usually, these Ryanair services are not vital to the local economy or whatsoever. At least, they shouldn't be  Smile


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7702 posts, RR: 21
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3094 times:
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Quoting Joost (Reply 21):
Can you explain me in what way this is different from what STN did:

Most French airports FR operate to are nothing like STN, have no connection with STN, and are not answerable for what STN does in any way. In the main they are way smaller and depend quite a lot on service from FR. 'Airports' do not come as a job lot - just because one might behave in an unfair or heavy-handed way does not mean that anything called an airport is fair game for being bullied and held to ransome.

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 18):
rogue and cheap airline in every sense of the word

Most definitely.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3037 times:

Very good and swift reaction to the situation from Brussels Airlines in pure Ryanair style today.

In a nationwide media campaign, Brussels Airlines takes note of Ryanair´s departure from CRL (sic) and offers the ´dumped passengers´ 150.000 oneway tickets for 49.99 euro throughout Europe, for travel after November 12th.

MOL couldn´t have done it better.

ROTFL


User currently offlineVarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1594 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3024 times:

I agree with both Joost and Russianjet  Wink

geachte Joost, you have a point: these practices are very widespread in nowadays business world, and in the end what is business what is blackmail?
Ford is putting its EU factories in "competition" and asks for local authorities to finance some developments, so to some extent why Ryanair would not do the same with airports...

Russianjet I fully agree with what you say: it's not because my neighbor acts mean that I should copy and do the same with my other neighbor.

furthermore, as far as France is concerned, a bit more of context: Ryanair mainly developped in airports which had barely ANY traffic before they arrived; local authorities (naively) fell in the trap by creating infrastructure out of the blue and investing sometimes heavily
pax wise, it has created new trends: direct flights from the UK to BIQ for example; as a consequence some UK pax have bought residence in BIQ or Dordogne or La Rochelle based on the fact there was a Ryanair direct link

now when Ryanair enter this "business"or "blackmail" game, it jeopardizes local airports but also entire communities

that's a personnal view but I find it disgusting



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25 RussianJet : Fine work, SN! A very good effort indeed. Hopefully more people will then find out that for just a little more money you can fly a far superior servi
26 BlueFlyer : Well, the lines are clear now. The regional government has stated that: a) A strike is a force majeure for which it cannot be held responsible and it
27 RyanairCRL : but they can't block the access to the airport either, which they do!
28 BlueFlyer : Each situation is handled on its own merit. The police could have moved in on its own to free up access to the airport, or airport management (or eve
29 MH017 : FR, apparently, have a love-hate relationship with Belgium: 1st, they left the Flemish OST airport, and now the're gonna leave the Wallon CRL airport
30 Varig md-11 : LIL is too "advanced" and MST too close to EIN find any forgotten airfield with gullible politicians ready to put euros on the table: once the lemon
31 Humberside : FR currently serve MST from GRO, with ALC and VLC starting later this year
32 Joost : According to luchtvaartnieuws, a draft agreement has been made between the Walloon government and Ryanair. The contract will be signed saturday, ticke
33 MH017 : It amazes me, there are no LCC flights as yet to XCR (Chalons-en-Champagne/Vatry), ideally situated between both Paris and Luxembourg, and having a l
34 Varig md-11 : yes they are, they are so silly they don't see where they put their feet in. I agree LIL is too "advanced" in terms of infrastructure: Ryanair would
35 Post contains images Joost : Apparantly the French local politicians are no different from the Dutch ones... Partly agree. In MAD, they got a good deal from the airport. After th
36 Post contains images Varig md-11 : interesting information I didn't know that that's right, the example of MRS (MP4 I think?!) new LCC dedicated terminal is revealing thanks for your v
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