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Qantas Spending AUD$50m To Fix Perth Airport  
User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Posted (7 years 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3443 times:

Hi guys,

Qantas has finally woken up and realised that the Airport is an absolute mess! But this option is only a quick fix and wont really help the situation. They think it will ease the problem but we all know it wont really help. They said that in about 7 years they will look to build a brand new fully owned terminal over at the international terminal which is what we have all been expecting.

Also got some graphics emailed to me from a friend who works in the media but im not sure where to go to host the .pdf file, so if ya know let me know then i can share them.


But realistically they should have done this 5 years ago and now building a new terminal, the growth for the terminal is going to be even bigger in the next 5 years with fly in fly out workers doubling etc. Which means the Whole 1300 carparks arent going to do jack shit.

Heres some links to the story.

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,22283557-31037,00.html
http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=77&ContentID=38007
http://abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/08/21/2010733.htm?section=business

Offical Release:
http://www.perthairport.com/default.aspx?MenuID=109


Ps: Know this has been posted in the Aussie Aviation thread but there is a lack of discussion there.


Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21502 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3413 times:

What's so wrong with PER? Are you talking the international or the domestic terminal?

I was there last year and it seemed perfectly fine to me. Nice larger Qantas club, enough gate space for the number of flights it sees, food and shopping, etc. But that was the domestic terminal...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineJasond From Australia, joined Jul 2009, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3378 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
Are you talking the international or the domestic terminal?

Issues in both terminals really but this latest development is focused on domestic. I guess I don't know how it compares to the US experience but PER has a bad reputation, tv last night echoed many peoples view that is was, by a long way, the worst in the country.

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Thread starter):
Qantas has finally woken up and realised that the Airport is an absolute mess!

With WAC taking a back seat yet again. QF puts in 50 mil with only 20 more coming from the ACTUAL AIRPORT MANAGERS, geez. Anyway finally something is happening.


User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1522 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3369 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
What's so wrong with PER? Are you talking the international or the domestic terminal?

I was there last year and it seemed perfectly fine to me. Nice larger Qantas club, enough gate space for the number of flights it sees, food and shopping, etc. But that was the domestic terminal...

Try being there during the very peak hours and the terminal is bursting at the seams ..



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 day ago) and read 3338 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
What's so wrong with PER? Are you talking the international or the domestic terminal?

I was there last year and it seemed perfectly fine to me. Nice larger Qantas club, enough gate space for the number of flights it sees, food and shopping, etc. But that was the domestic terminal...

Perth Airport is a mess, The QF terminal is a discrace, for the amount of traffic and passegers it is shocking. The QF club is good when you only have the regional flights leaving otherwise it is WAY too small for the amount of people using it.

I take it you didnt arrive when you have 2 743's a 767 and a 737 arrive within 20 minutes of each other! Its like World War 3 in the Arrivals area.

Heres some other things that makes Perth bad!

Parking or lack of, An extra 1300 parks isnt going to fix anything and they are almost 1km away from the terminal!
Lack of taxis, shuttles and public transport
Lack of food areas upstairs
Lack of staff at check in, you wait forever and there arent enough quick check quiosks in the terminal
Security area is shocking as well, i have been there when the line goes right down to the regional arrivals then snakes back to the entry doors near the sales desk.
Piss poor seating in the gate areas, not enough when you have 5-6 flights leaving at the same time.


Look ive been to Perth when theres only 2 flights leaving and its fine but when theres the Eastern flights leaving especially in the Morning, Lunchtime, Teatime and Midnight is when you have up to 7-10 flights leaving to all over the country it is shocking.

Perth Airport is basically where it was in 1986 when it had to expand and these photos in the link below the 2nd photo is what it is like when you arrive in the Domestic Terminal now! But good to see the International terminal pictures and how it has developed.

http://www.perthairport.com/popup.html


I fly to Perth approx once a month and it is shocking, i prefer to try and get QF link 717 flights just to not have to go through the baggage claim war for the QF flights. I think it all depends on when you arrive/depart Perth as to what its like. Ive departed the Multiuser terminal at 6am before and it was absolute madness as well, same with teatime and midnight in that terminal.

Thats my winge anyway!  Smile



Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21502 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (7 years 16 hours ago) and read 3114 times:

I think it is a matter of perspective then. Maybe Aussies expect no waiting at peak times, but here in the USA, we just sort of have to deal with long delays at peak times at many airports. Not saying it's a good thing, just a reality.

As for parking spots and transportation, that's a whole different issue. But what's the big deal of parking 1km from the terminal? Just operate a parking shuttle bus. Many airports in the USA have "long term" lots 1 or more kms from the main terminal.

Quoting Nzrich (Reply 3):
Try being there during the very peak hours and the terminal is bursting at the seams ..

When is peak time?

The way the place is laid out, I can see arrivals being a crunch. I arrived on the 743 from SYD in the morning and it looked a bit crowded, but I got my luggage in short order and a rental car and was on my way.

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 4):
Midnight is when you have up to 7-10 flights leaving to all over the country it is shocking.

I was there for the midnight flight to MEL and got there about 3 hours early due to logistics. There was a 743 headed for SYD, my 767 to MEL, and a 738 to BNE, IIRC. Where are the other 4-7 flights going at midnight?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 16 hours ago) and read 3093 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
I was there for the midnight flight to MEL and got there about 3 hours early due to logistics. There was a 743 headed for SYD, my 767 to MEL, and a 738 to BNE, IIRC. Where are the other 4-7 flights going at midnight?

Oops put that into perspective a bit wrong, i mean lunch time and tea time have 7-10 flights leaving and midnight can be just as bad.

Usually at midnight at the moment or around midnight you will have:

737 to Canberra
743 to Melbourne
767 or 737 to Brisbane
743 to Sydney.

Also depending on time of year i have seen flights to Cairns and Adelaide around the 2300-0100 time slot.

The above is carnarge though.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
I think it is a matter of perspective then. Maybe Aussies expect no waiting at peak times, but here in the USA, we just sort of have to deal with long delays at peak times at many airports. Not saying it's a good thing, just a reality.

As for parking spots and transportation, that's a whole different issue. But what's the big deal of parking 1km from the terminal? Just operate a parking shuttle bus. Many airports in the USA have "long term" lots 1 or more kms from the main terminal.

I found the USA to be more Organised than Australia. It was chaos at LAS for example but it was orderly and fast where as Australia security etc is SLOW and disorganised.

Funnything is that Westralia Airports would never ever introduce a Bus or god forbid any other means of transport to their car parks. Would cost to much for them to do.

The problem is there is no point building a multilevel car park (which is whats really needed) because its not going to be any good in 10-15 years time, so they wont waste the money, but the other problem is the Fly in Fly out guys who park their cars at the airport because of the lack of Public transport to the Perth Airport.

[Edited 2007-08-22 18:01:28]


Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1522 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 hours ago) and read 3010 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
When is peak time?

And here is your answer

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 6):
Oops put that into perspective a bit wrong, i mean lunch time and tea time have 7-10 flights leaving and midnight can be just as bad.

Usually at midnight at the moment or around midnight you will have:

737 to Canberra
743 to Melbourne
767 or 737 to Brisbane
743 to Sydney.

Also depending on time of year i have seen flights to Cairns and Adelaide around the 2300-0100 time slot.

The above is carnarge though.

We are used to waiting but unfortunately this terminal was just not made for up to 3 wide bodies and a narrow body at the same time .. If you fly in and out then you will see a terminal thats is bursting at its seams .. Now you made the comment about arriving with just ONE 743 and it was a crunch , now add in another 743 a 767 and a 737 and you then have a idea what PER is like during its peak hour !!!!



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2965 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 hours ago) and read 2980 times:

Quoting Nzrich (Reply 7):
We are used to waiting but unfortunately this terminal was just not made for up to 3 wide bodies and a narrow body at the same time .. If you fly in and out then you will see a terminal thats is bursting at its seams .. Now you made the comment about arriving with just ONE 743 and it was a crunch , now add in another 743 a 767 and a 737 and you then have a idea what PER is like during its peak hour !!!!

I totally agree with the posters comments here and have made the same comments before. SInce I moved to Sydney, I go back to Perth to see the family and friends 4 to 6 times per year and it has progressively gotten worse as the mining boom has taken hold. With the increased flying that QF does to regional WA routes, and with the scheduling of 743's to Sydney and Melbourne, it can be chaos and crowded at QF's Perth terminal at times in both the departure area and in the baggage claim area.

Realistically, a proper 2 storey combined domestic & international terminal needs to be built and it should be built by WAC adjoining and linking into the current International terminal. It's not as if there is a lack of space on that side of the airport for it to happen and it's not as if the passenger demand isn't there for it. WAC already has a master plan for Perth Airport which includes the complex by 2024 but it's time for it to happen now.


User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1522 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 hours ago) and read 2932 times:

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 8):
Realistically, a proper 2 storey combined domestic & international terminal needs to be built and it should be built by WAC adjoining and linking into the current International terminal. It's not as if there is a lack of space on that side of the airport for it to happen and it's not as if the passenger demand isn't there for it. WAC already has a master plan for Perth Airport which includes the complex by 2024 but it's time for it to happen now.

Sounds just like at AKL there is a plan to combine the international and domestic terminals but they are just doing a makeover of the domestic terminal here until the master plan kicks in many years from now .. Most frustrating when they could just build the combined terminal and have a great airport that is easy to transfer and all !!!!



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21502 posts, RR: 60
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 hours ago) and read 2928 times:

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 6):
737 to Canberra
743 to Melbourne
767 or 737 to Brisbane
743 to Sydney.

Man, I wish my flight was a 743. I was in J class, and the 743 to MEL is much better in J than the 767 I had to fly on.
 Sad

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 6):
I found the USA to be more Organised than Australia. It was chaos at LAS for example but it was orderly and fast where as Australia security etc is SLOW and disorganised.

I kind of agree there, especially with the QF checkin in PER. Really "who the hell cares" kind of attitude. I needed help, and the answer was "did you try the machines?" and I didn't expect that flying on a J class ticket connecting to F class back to the USA. I wanted to make sure my bags were checked correctly and see how to get access to the Q club, but they acted like I should "just know" these things already.

Quoting Nzrich (Reply 7):
Now you made the comment about arriving with just ONE 743 and it was a crunch

No, I said MY flight was a 743, and I don't know who else was arriving at the same time because I was too busy getting my luggage and trying to find "National" rent a car. Finally found out that it's Europcar there, but all my documentation said National, without any mention of that.

So I wasn't paying attention to who else was coming in, but I would assume that there were MEL arrivals and other arrivals coming in along with me.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 hours ago) and read 2829 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):
Man, I wish my flight was a 743. I was in J class, and the 743 to MEL is much better in J than the 767 I had to fly on.

That woulda sucked, unless it was the Intl config which is way better than the domestic J class.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):
I kind of agree there, especially with the QF checkin in PER. Really "who the hell cares" kind of attitude

Ive flown out of Perth 20-30 times in the last 24 months and the Quick Checks NEVER work they are a waste of time it always prints out one of those things you have to take to the desk for everyone!

There is one ladie at PER with QF who i believe is a supervisor and if you ask she will block seats and everything for you, she is lovely  Smile especially when we were headed to LAX last year she blocked seats in the middle for us!

But there are a few employees at QF that are total wank offs and they dont like having to manually check you in, "why didnt you check the machine", "did you use antoher one", "youve come to the wrong counter" guess you get that everywhere though!



Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2965 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 hours ago) and read 2803 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):
Man, I wish my flight was a 743. I was in J class, and the 743 to MEL is much better in J than the 767 I had to fly on.

The problem with Perth, however, is that it would be better for the ops there to have more frequent 767 flights to SYD & MEL than what it would to have fewer, bigger 743's. The crunch is caused by the passenger volumes on the 743's which the physical space in the terminal really isn't cut out to handle.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):
I kind of agree there, especially with the QF checkin in PER. Really "who the hell cares" kind of attitude

Again, it comes back to the lack of space and, therefore, lack of available employee's and checkin counters. It's unfortunate but it can't be addressed until the terminal capacity is increased. Again, it's time for WAC to get off it's bum and build the new terminals not just more carparks.


User currently offlineJasond From Australia, joined Jul 2009, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 12 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2705 times:

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 12):
The problem with Perth, however, is that it would be better for the ops there to have more frequent 767 flights to SYD & MEL than what it would to have fewer, bigger 743's. The crunch is caused by the passenger volumes on the 743's which the physical space in the terminal really isn't cut out to handle.

With QF's domestic capacity stretched so much they don't really have a lot of flexibility. QF is also making buckets of money out of PER so a little negative feedback from customers doesn't seem to worry them too much. Interesting though as I mentioned before is who is kicking in the biggest bundle here. Sounds like WAC gets to enjoy a better reputation off someone spending the bulk of the cash  Wink


User currently offlineRazza74 From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 12 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2649 times:

PER is a super mess

QF, DJ, International and Regional terminal, 4 seperate terminals no connectivity

Another fun peak hour is around 6am with the hordes of flyin / flyout workers of he miners in the northwest of WA, where yout A/C will be one of many for a 6am departure

The lack of jetways is a joke, on a flight I took with AN to KTA when AN was around was interesting, I was told to walk to the end of the "porch" go through the last door and board my A/C; Only problem which one as there was three 737s one going to KTA, to SYD and one to KAL

ADL has a better airport then us . . . that is sad

Raza74



Ahh the joy of living under a flightpath
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2965 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (6 years 12 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2557 times:

Quoting Jasond (Reply 13):
With QF's domestic capacity stretched so much they don't really have a lot of flexibility.

Yes that is the problem. However I'm hoping that the 787's are on time and that, with them taking over some
"marginal" regional asian services in JQ or QF colours, some 767's will be freed to come back to domestic duty. Realistically those 743's need to be retired in the next few years and PER should have a higher frequency of flights from QF from both SYD & MEL than what it does now. The QF schedule has been 5 to 6 flights per day for as long as I can remember. Pity the A332 didn't work out domestically flying the shorter haul East Coast routes because I still liked them the best to travel on trans-con.

Quoting Jasond (Reply 13):
Sounds like WAC gets to enjoy a better reputation off someone spending the bulk of the cash

And meanwhile WAC builds 1300 more carparks which they can charge at their normal exhorbitant rate to travellers.   Neat deal isn't it!!

Quoting Razza74 (Reply 14):
The lack of jetways is a joke

The PER Qantas terminal desperately needs another 4 to 5 jetbridges to handle flights.

[Edited 2007-08-24 00:36:30]

User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5854 posts, RR: 40
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2359 times:

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 15):
The PER Qantas terminal desperately needs another 4 to 5 jetbridges to handle flights.

that's up to Qantas, they own/operate the domestic terminal that they operate from.

Quoting Razza74 (Reply 14):
PER is a super mess

QF, DJ, International and Regional terminal, 4 seperate terminals no connectivity

what about the fact that a widebody A330 can't taxi directly to the gate if it comes in on 24 because of a bloody old tower?

Quoting Razza74 (Reply 14):
Another fun peak hour is around 6am with the hordes of flyin / flyout workers of he miners in the northwest of WA, where your A/C will be one of many for a 6am departure

6am is shocking

Quoting Razza74 (Reply 14):
The lack of jetways is a joke,

not going to get better with the addition of 1 more jetway!

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 12):
The problem with Perth, however, is that it would be better for the ops there to have more frequent 767 flights to SYD & MEL than what it would to have fewer, bigger 743's. The crunch is caused by the passenger volumes on the 743's which the physical space in the terminal really isn't cut out to handle.

its not much better with 3 x 767's on the deck, the problems arise with the outdated baggage system in the domestic terminal.

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 11):
But there are a few employees at QF that are total wank offs and they dont like having to manually check you in, "why didnt you check the machine", "did you use antoher one", "youve come to the wrong counter" guess you get that everywhere though!

don't take it out on the staff...blame QF management for allowing it to get that bad.

Quoting Nzrich (Reply 7):
We are used to waiting but unfortunately this terminal was just not made for up to 3 wide bodies and a narrow body at the same time .. If you fly in and out then you will see a terminal thats is bursting at its seams .. Now you made the comment about arriving with just ONE 743 and it was a crunch , now add in another 743 a 767 and a 737 and you then have a idea what PER is like during its peak hour !!!!

that's about the size of it, international isn't much better at 230pm, I arrived on SQ and MH & QF had arrived just prior, took nearly 3hrs to vacate the terminal. I left and the SQ return to Singapore was well and truly gone.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
When is peak time?

any time when there is more than 3 heavies on the deck at domestic & international terminal.


as I regular spotter at Perth I've seen it go from bad, to worse, to the downright fucking ridiculous, which is where we're at now.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2965 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2291 times:

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 16):
that's up to Qantas, they own/operate the domestic terminal that they operate from.

So what? QF building or WAC building, the place still needs more gates! And WAC should get off it's arse and build the planned new domestic terminal right next to the International terminal NOW.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 16):
what about the fact that a widebody A330 can't taxi directly to the gate if it comes in on 24 because of a bloody old tower?

Why haven't they knocked that tower down? I always think, when I taxi past, how silly it looks being in the middle of the taxiways.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 16):
its not much better with 3 x 767's on the deck, the problems arise with the outdated baggage system in the domestic terminal.

I'm not going to argue with the outdated baggage system. Anyone who goes through PER experiences just how stupid it is. But if QF used more frequent 767's and re-jigged their schedule to have alternating SYD & MEL bound flights on the ground then it would alleviate some of the congestion currently and would at least improve passenger flows out of the terminal and in teh baggage claim area. The only time they would then have major congestion would be the midnight departures which they really can't do anything about except to expand their terminal.


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