777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8715 times:
Along these lines, I really heard you loud and clear with the Sound of silence post - here in the comments and on forums such as Airliners.net. Thanks for the great feedback. Most of you got the point that when it comes to what we hear inside the cabin, it’s about both the quality of the sound and the level of the noise. (Emphasis his)
A tad condescending, don't you think? Is he now trying to imply that the quality of 787 noise will be better than the quality of A380 noise?!
LaminarFlow From Canada, joined Aug 2007, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8654 times:
As much as I previously thought that Randy was taking wild swings at the A380, I have come to conclude that he does have a point; the noise levels and sounds are something taken for granted when flying. I compare it to the awkward silence that prevails when stopped at a red light in the back of a hybrid-vehicle taxi, when every swallow, snort, and breath is discernible. I tremble when I think of this in conjunction with the fears of cell phone use on airplanes becoming common.
Whether or not this should be used to take shots at the A380 is still debatable, but at least Randy is keeping things interesting.
Kappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8124 times:
Quoting Sebolino (Reply 7): Yes. American sound is much better than a socialist surrender weaselish freedom sound !!!
I hope it was a joke, if so, really funny. The important point is of course that the continous humming sound of the engines and wind is a more relaxing sound than the sound of people talking and babies crying at the same noise level. I can understand that, but it doesn't bother me, because I'm usually reading/playing games or something with my ipod in my ears, or watching tv. If I'm going to sleep, I also listen to music, so either way it doesn't matter to me how quiet the aircraft is. An eitherway, the sound of people talking in the background doesn't really bother me. It's not like aircraft are so quiet that you can hear conversations from the front of the cabin to the back. I doubt the a380 will be that quiet as well, especially in the back. Even the a340 is pretty loud in the back.
PVG From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 738 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8119 times:
I was just on a 737 flight in Europe that had several young children on board with the associated noise. The background noise (engine or other flight/aircraft associated noise) needed to drown out those kids would need to be rather substantial in order for someone not to notice them. I'd rather just have the plane be as quiet as possible and deal with the other sounds as they are. You're going to hear most of it anyway, so you might as well have the aircraft itself be as quiet as possible and hope that you get lucky with the other noise. Anyway, you can always pass notes back and forth like we used to do in primary school. Maybe we can start a new a.net sign language and really throw the airliner world for spin by making signals to each other from across the aisles. How about in-seat text messaging/IM at each seat so that you can have conversations with people sitting anywhere in the cabin. Certainly would make long flights more interesting I would think!
KrisYUL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8106 times:
Quoting Sebolino (Reply 7):
Yes. American sound is much better than a socialist surrender weaselish freedom sound !!!
Going by that, we must only conclude that the 787 will be LOUD!
People, please. The A380 is still a tube with wings and engines - there's going to be a certain amount of noise no matter what they do. Unless Airbus comes up with a propulsion system based on flying fairies and an air speed equivalent to a genle gallop, I don't think there is such a thing as "too quiet" as all jet travel will lead to noticeable levels of inside noise.
EI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8009 times:
Quoting 777236ER (Reply 2): Along these lines, I really heard you loud and clear with the Sound of silence post - here in the comments and on forums such as Airliners.net. Thanks for the great feedback. Most of you got the point that when it comes to what we hear inside the cabin, it’s about both the quality of the sound and the level of the noise. (Emphasis his)
Good to see Randy (and I assume Leahy also) takes the time to read what is written on the site. In fact, I think that airliners.net is a valuble resource for these guys. Where else can they get such informed comsumer opinions on their products?
777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7893 times:
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 6): No, he's pointing out that measuring absolute sound level doesn't tell the whole picture...what the sound is also matters.
Well, not really. He's spinning because the A380 will probably have a quieter cabin than the 787.
You have to bear in mind that reports of A380 noise levels don't come from Airbus SPL figures, but from passengers. This shows that the human subjective measure of noise annoyance is being applied, and the A380 is looked upon favourably. Randy can claim that passengers won't like the noise levels of the A380 as much as noisier aircraft, but that doesn't agree with the comments from passengers, who think the experience is pleasurable.
Slz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7817 times:
Quoting 777236ER (Reply 17): He's spinning because the A380 will probably have a quieter cabin than the 787.
Indeed, all the rest are intellectual excuses to cover this up.
Image what people on this site would have to say if things would have been the other way round, with JL claiming more noise is better.
Quoting 777236ER (Reply 17): You have to bear in mind that reports of A380 noise levels don't come from Airbus SPL figures, but from passengers. This shows that the human subjective measure of noise annoyance is being applied, and the A380 is looked upon favourably.
A marketeers worst nightmare really.
Not only are the cold numbers of your competitor more favourable, but so is the public perception of the comfort offered by him. As we have seen here with much amazement, it pushes Randy to very desperate claims...
I suggest we officially name him "Comical Randy", after the notorious Iraqi Minister of information who made a fool of himself spinning the truth till he became dizzy of it himself!
Jonathan-l From France, joined Mar 2002, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7768 times:
Quoting Randy (Reply 2): Along these lines, I really heard you loud and clear with the Sound of silence post - here in the comments and on forums such as Airliners.net. Thanks for the great feedback. Most of you got the point that when it comes to what we hear inside the cabin, it’s about both the quality of the sound and the level of the noise
Didn't Randy take a look at the threads on the 787 first flight debates? Aren't people looking for answers / clarifications / insight on that rather than how quiet the A380 is?
Maersk737 From Denmark, joined Feb 2004, 733 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7686 times:
Quoting Slz396 (Reply 18): Not only are the cold numbers of your competitor more favourable, but so is the public perception of the comfort offered by him. As we have seen here with much amazement, it pushes Randy to very desperate claims...
Not to much "public" have been able to listen to the noise level, in the 787 cabin yet
777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7660 times:
Quoting Kappel (Reply 21):
Maybe, but isn't it a bit hard to say right now what the noise level will be in the 787 cabin? Or can that already be guesstimated fairly accurately at this point?
If the noise levels were as low as the A380, why would the new Randy be making these comments? I think it's clear they'll be higher.
Boeing made a strategic decision to reduce cabin insulation in order to help squeeze another seat in a row. It was the right decision too, Airbus would have made it in the same circumstances. But because of that, cabin noise will be increased.
Airbus have put a lot of effort into reducing cabin noise, although to be fair the large wing of the A380 helps and the upper deck is about a mile from the engines. One of the things nearly all A380 passengers have commented on so far is how quiet it is. It really is a string in the bow of the A380 and if Airbus can keep it up on the A350 then they have the potential for a real passenger experience differentiator between new Airbus aircraft and new Boeing aircraft.
Randy and Boeing would have looked more dignified just shutting up about it, rather than looking a little silly by saying passengers prefer noisier aircraft.
Tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12710 posts, RR: 78
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7552 times:
Quoting 777236ER (Reply 24): Randy and Boeing would have looked more dignified just shutting up about it, rather than looking a little silly by saying passengers prefer noisier aircraft.
I absolutely agree that Randy is spinning to make the 787 look attractive...that's his job.
However, neither he nor Boeing have said passengers prefer noisier aircraft. Everyone (I think) agrees that passengers prefer quieter aircraft. A several post in this thread have correctly noted, what passengers perceive as quiet and what's quiet as measured by a dB meter are not the same thing.
It's definitely true that the A380 is quiet. It's definitely true that's it's quieter than any other commercial airliner out there. It's definitely true that you can hear more of what's going on from other passengers in the A380 cabin exactly because the A380 airframe is quieter. What Randy suggested in his blog is that, because people will hear more noise from other passengers, they may perceive the overall cabin environment as more disruptive.
Early passenger reports for the A380 suggest this won't be the case, and that's a good thing.
: I believe that Mr Randy should do some more research. He might be amazed or probably shocked to find out that Airbus will soon manage to further reduc
: Yes, and I haven't heard of anyone who's complained that the cabin is too quiet and that the lack of noise is a bad thing. Randy knows this, he's jus
: I dont think you can jump to that conclusion. How do you know they didnt find a different material that produces the same sound insulating effect tha
: Yes, I think I can. Randy wouldn't be suggesting the A380 cabin is too quiet if the 787 cabin sound pressure levels were the same.
: I always marvel at how some A.Netters take offense at Randy's Blog. Such innocuous comments, from a salesman, don't deserve this much commentary. Nice
: Just like you try to score cheap points here by putting words in his mouth?
: ...er, in Portugal which (I think I'm right in saying) is the leading producer thereof. Unfortunately, you are whistling in the dark. Swiss wine (lit
: But haven't you heard? Boeing's declared noisy the new quiet. If Airbus wants to avoid mass cancellations in the A380 programme, they better start re
: Pretty much all NZ wine is screw cap. Many other vineyards are switching too. No difference in the taste.
: EI321 - nice job - very funny. Everyone loves Bagdad Bob/Comical Ali. Wikipedia sez he's living in the UAE.
: shucks! this is nothing new. this has been on virgin atlantic's v-port system since they installed it. i have myself used it several times going back
: Christ, not you again. I refer you back to the previous thread where you tried (and failed) to make the same point. Yes, condescending. To imply that
: What...? I can't hear you because the noise, (or perhaps lack of it), is deafening.
: He wouldn't, and didn't. He is trying to spin white noise on an aircraft as a good thing. Maybe this is a regional thing, but here in the USA "market
: I understand the comments against a pretty bad blog by Randy (the new Randy, the old Randy seemed to have it down on how to do it with class). But bot
: ...And in other news, a new invention was announced today that promises to revolutionize air travel, both for those traveling on quiet Airbi suffering
: No need to get profane. Please show us where Randy said "passengers prefer noisier aircraft". You've never been able to do it. You have to "reduce' i
: I think his point is simple and plain. White noise can make a crowded passenger aircraft more comfortable. I would agree. With that many people that
: I have to say the "quality" of noise is a new distinction to me. What is important is that the headphones on the A380 will be at a considerably lower
: We may be able to dispense with expensive noise-cancellation headsets. That's a plus, if it's really that quiet. That may be subjective. I prefer to
: Actually, they are separate yet intertwined entities. For example, its the Marketing guys who came up with the Pontiac Aztec design, and its the Sale
: Come on, he's smarter than that if he made it to VP marketing. Posting anonymously on a.net would get him in about the same trouble as the CEO of Who
: If noise is so wonderful, why don't they move C and F to the back of the plane to take full advantage of the beneficial health effects noise imparts?
: Wings, I just lit a cork on fire, and it was not very hard. I'm not sure that the cork we use in wine bottles should be the same that Airbus uses.
: I think the question is not whether it will burn or not, but rather will it keep burning after the source is removed. Did it burn like a sheet of pap
: Thanks! You made my day New C in the back of the good old MD80's....That must be a dream to remember Cheers Peter
: The point is that the "Quiet Zone" will be that, no kids no rowdy groups , just people who want to sleep and be in a non-human sound environ. (we hav
: You mean like you trying to spin it as a bad thing with the above post? How do you know its bad? You are subjected to white noise more than you think
: It didn't go up like a sheet of paper, but it didn't go out right after I removed the flame. It kept going for about ten seconds before going out, an
: You really can not gather any conclusion as the cork that you used for your experiment had probably been soaked with alcohol. To be more accurate you
: Just like the experimenter, no doubt! That's true though, a wine-soked sample probaly isn't ideal...
: You didn't read everything I wrote before making this knee-jerk response. I like white noise, and explained why.
: Funny, guys. I was going to light up a corkboard too, but you know, since it's useful I decided against it. It's just a simple little test, no need to
: Pissy? I was simply pointing out a fact as to why the cork screw kept burning longer then expected. My apologies for actually wanting to teach someth
: Virgin should probably look into acquiring MD-80's so they can market the aft section as a "flying spa - home of the turbofan massage".
: Your cour cousins to the north and east are quite the cork producers as well.. maybe not quite as much as Portugal, but Spain produces a lot. saludos
: All noise isn't created equal. Considering how active noise cancelling uses opposite amplitude noise of the same frequency to create silence...or theo
: Pretty sad ... I am always amused at how some people, time and again, react in such tragic ways to such trivial issues. It really does not reflect we