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Denver Media - Frontier's DH8 Is Unsafe  
User currently offlineBrick From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1580 posts, RR: 7
Posted (7 years 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 17634 times:

I was watching my local news last night and throughout the broadcast they kept doing teasers about "Find out about an aircraft that may be unsafe to fly through the mountains that's coming to DIA". They ran this teaser at every commercial break and finally 45 minutes into the 60 minute broadcast they showed the story:

http://www.myfoxcolorado.com/myfox/p...es/ContentDetail?contentId=4147991

It was one of the most irresponsible stories I've seen from the local Denver media in a long time. The whole purpose of the story was to either smear Frontier, scare people with a non-existent problem, or both.

Even my wife who has never shown any interest in aviation came into the room after overhearing the story and said "What a complete load a crap!". Usually when I comment on a poorly covered aviation subject in the news I get the I don't care look from her. So the fact that even my wife had a reaction to this story demonstrates how bad it was!


A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man...
147 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 937 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 17596 times:

First Yeah...what a load of crap.

Second...They make reference to United also flying these planes and that is just untrue, they do not. The only other operators of these in the US that I know of is Horizon.


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6372 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 17587 times:

IIRC, the FAR's allow an exemption for the Oxygen mask rule if the aircraft, during certification, can demonstrate a rapid enough descent.

The only problem I see would be a worst-case scenario: what if you are flying over the rockies, and lost pressure? You'd have to do an emergency descent to 10,000', however, the terrain (and the MEA's an the minimum vectoring altitude  Wink ) in Colorado might not allow for that...

Also, in the Dash 8, I do believe the pilots have O2 masks...if you got down to 14,000 feet, everyone would be safer than they would at cruise altitude, and you descend once terrain allowed for it.

I do agree, the media did a hatchet job here...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7565 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 17505 times:

Wow what a bunch of crap. Why do they dig up something and try to blame it on one airline, when in reality its something that applies to many airlines across the country. This is not an F9 issue or a Q400 issue.

The areas in Colorado and the continental United States where the terrain would not allow for such a descent are not large enough to the point where this would be an issue. Yes, there are a good number of peaks above 14,000 ft and areas of a hundred miles to where they would need to be above 10,000 feet. Heck, many people ski in Colorado up near 12,000 ft.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17029 posts, RR: 67
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 17475 times:

Well at least it was good for a nice laugh.


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2433 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 17389 times:

FOX news. Clear, credible, complete.  rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Media. Gotta love 'em. We all know how accurate they can be when it comes to aviation.

Let's see, let's start listing important points that they did NOT discuss. I'll go first.

In the event of cabin decompression, IIRC, ALL airliners descend to a "breathable" level, not just the Q400.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineFlyingcat From United States of America, joined May 2007, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 17362 times:

Faux News at it again

They should be considered entertainment and not news.

How anybody invites them to press events is beyond me? Perhaps if it was "world's wildest plane crashes" it would be more credible.


User currently offlineILOVEA340 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 17308 times:

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 5):
In the event of cabin decompression, IIRC, ALL airliners descend to a "breathable" level, not just the Q400.

Add to that that 25k feet is not a fataly low O2 level. You will certainly become tired and maybe even pass out, but by the time that happens you'll be descending through 15k ft on your way to a precautionary landing..,.


User currently offlineKingCavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1303 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 17225 times:

http://www.myfoxcolorado.com/myfox/p...es/InsideFox/ContactUs?pageId=5.11

I've already contacted the station. Shame on Fox News!



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2433 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 17198 times:

Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 8):
I've already contacted the station.

They are about to get inundated with e-mails from A.net members!



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 17136 times:

Quoting Flyingcat (Reply 6):
Faux News at it again

They should be considered entertainment and not news.

Amen, although "entertainment" might be a stretch lest it be compared with professional wrestling as entertainment. And to think I wanted to be a journalist once upon a time. I've flown QX's Q400's a couple of times, they are an incredible aircraft.


User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 17087 times:

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 1):
Second...They make reference to United also flying these planes and that is just untrue, they do not.

Actually, Skywest does fly the Dash 8 for United. Not the 400 version, but still a Dash 8. They are the same type of plane, just different versions. (The 73G is the same type as a 738, different versions.) To the flying public, a Dash 8-200 is a Dash 8-400 is an ATR 72.

Anyone else think another airline paid the station to do the smear about F9? Maybe another major DEN carrier?

[Edited 2007-08-23 21:05:19]

User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9340 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 17051 times:

Here's the rundown of this story --

Sets up with Frontier and the new plane.

"Real person" speaks in concern.

Frontier given chance to comment and does.

FAA regulation given attribution.

"Real person" speaks out in favor.

Discusses fact oxygen masks aren't needed.

Talks about emergency descent procedure.

Frontier comments again discussing emergency descents.

United declines comment.

And close.



Sorry, folks, but this isn't a smear campaign or anything blown out of proportion.


Personally, I think Frontier needed to make another person or two available with some stronger comments and United should have commented.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 17051 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 2):
Also, in the Dash 8, I do believe the pilots have O2 masks...if you got down to 14,000 feet, everyone would be safer than they would at cruise altitude, and you descend once terrain allowed for it.

Yes, turbine powered/pressurized aircraft have pilot O2 systems and are required to be able to supply pax with O2 above 15,000ft msl. Part 121 would need to have pilot O2 on above 10,000 anyways.

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 11):
Actually, Skywest does fly the Dash 8 for United. Not the 400 version, but still a Dash 8.

Mesa flies the Dash 8-100 for UAL. Skywest flies the EMB-120.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16997 times:

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 10):
Amen, although "entertainment" might be a stretch lest it be compared with professional wrestling as entertainment.

Hey, leave wrestling out, it's much more real and realistic than most of the stuff Fox shows  Wink .


User currently offlineKingCavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1303 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16982 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 12):
anything blown out of proportion

I disagree. When the title of their story is "New Frontier Planes Lack Oxygen Masks" they are either pointing out the obvious or trying to imply the planes are unsafe.



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlineRocANDtpa From United States of America, joined May 2006, 106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16959 times:

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 11):
Actually, Skywest does fly the Dash 8 for United. Not the 400 version, but still a Dash 8. They are the same type of plane, just different versions. (The 73G is the same type as a 738, different versions.) To the flying public, a Dash 8-200 is a Dash 8-400 is an ATR 72.

Skywest does not have any Dash planes. They fly the EMB-120 which is made by Embraer. The Dash is made by Bombardier.


User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16938 times:

United's Dash 8s also lack oxygen masks, something conveniently ommitted in this ju.. i mean report.
Does anyone know if QX has masks on it's Q400s?
-A



What now?
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16904 times:

Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 8):

I already did my part. Some of these people should go to PDX or SEA and fly on a QX Q400!



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9340 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16878 times:

Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 15):
I disagree. When the title of their story is "New Frontier Planes Lack Oxygen Masks" they are either pointing out the obvious or trying to imply the planes are unsafe.

Well, they are lacking oxygen masks. And if I'm a passenger, isn't it nice to know what the hell is up?

Yeah, thought so.

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 17):
United's Dash 8s also lack oxygen masks, something conveniently ommitted in this ju.. i mean report
-A

Except it's mentioned in the reporter's stand up close.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5435 posts, RR: 30
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16853 times:

It seems to me that the lack of passenger O2 masks is one of the things that limits the D8 altitude to 25,000'.


What the...?
User currently offlineNational757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16853 times:

Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 15):
trying to imply the planes are unsafe.

 checkmark 

Possible safety concerns? Please! Treacherous conditions? Gimmie a break..sounds like Fox Colorado is trying to scare people and make a big deal over nothing.

This story is typical of the media who are generally clueless about aviation. Hey as long as it's on the teleprompter, it must be true, right Gavin?



Formula 1 Grand Prix Trips: YUL '08, MEL '09, BCN '10, SIN '11, and LGW '12
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9340 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16843 times:

Quoting National757 (Reply 22):

See reply 12.

I think I lay it out quite clearly.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineKingCavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1303 posts, RR: 17
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16829 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 23):
I think I lay it out quite clearly.

About as clearly as Faux News? You seem to be missing some important facts just like Fox.



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlineKingCavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1303 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16829 times:

And what was the point of this story........................?


Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
25 STLGph : What important facts? The only real factual attribution given here to anything is by the F-A-A and by the pilot for Frontier who talks about continge
26 KingCavalier : Again, what was the point of the story? To state the obvious? Fox failed to say that any aircraft would have to rapidly descend in mountainous areas i
27 National757 : You left out how the chief pilot would put his family aboard these jets...which makes this story worthless, The fact that the FAA does not require ox
28 3201 : They almost certainly did. If you've ever been interviewed as part of a media story, you'll know that they'll take an hour of Q&A and use the one lin
29 STLGph : Addressed in the chief pilot's second SOT. Where does it say they aren't safe? They don't have oxygen masks. Compare it to them doing a story on a lo
30 KingCavalier : Again, what was the point of the story then?
31 AirframeAS : Isn't that outlined in FAR Part 25 & 29, IIRC. The plane is obviously certified with an Airworthiness Certificate from the F.A.A. so I don't see the
32 DAYflyer : We all know journalist know about as much about aviation as I do about being a rocket scientist.
33 STLGph : Except they didn't. That's incorrect. Interviews for a 50 second package don't take an hour. Five minutes, max. But the chief pilot said he'd put his
34 OnAClearDay : You make a weak point because it's certainly possible that additional comments by Frontier representatives or even the FAA were omitted from this sto
35 STLGph : Eh, notsomuch ... You can't be the bearer of bad or good news without someone else saying it. And the government in the past also approved billions o
36 OnAClearDay : Who said what?
37 OPNLguy : Yes, but it's nothing more than an * when compared to the headline/lead-in... Folks, this is yet another fine example of "facts" being reported, and
38 PC12Fan : That's what's incorrect. Some do, a lot don't. And there ladies and gentlemen is what stories like this prey on. A reporter puts out a story that cla
39 KingCavalier : Agree! And, that WAS the point of running the story.
40 OPNLguy : This just in: Jet aircraft unsafe because they lack propellers.... Film at 11...
41 Post contains images KELPkid : Yeah, any comment from WN on that one
42 AirTranTUS : Oops. Doesn't change the fact that UA does have someone flying Dash 8's for them.
43 RocANDtpa : I didn't know United had a regional affiliate flying the Dash-8 for them. Is this relatively new? What routes do they fly?
44 KingCavalier : Mesa flies the DH2 DEN-EGE, DEN-GJT, DEN-HDN (to name a few). Those poor passengers.
45 Post contains links and images AirTranTUS : I don't know when it started, but they fly many intra-Colorado routes. I'm sure there are others though. View Large View MediumPhoto © Ben Wang
46 Post contains images BlueSkys : Fox News, "Clear, Credible, Complete" LoL I cant believe they are knocking one of the safest turbo props ever built.... Must have been a really SLOWWW
47 Post contains images Peh : How about rookie "journalist" straight out of college who figures he's got a big scoop. The whole story was just dripping with amateurism. Little punk
48 AirframeAS : Like I said before, if this Q400 has it's Airworthiness Certificate issued by the F.A.A., then it's not a big of a deal. Full Stop!
49 STLGph : The report attributes the FAA. The SOT from the Frontier pilot is sound verbatim from him. It was mentioned it was covered, doesn't matter if it's in
50 Drewwright : People are afraid to fly. It's the number one phobia. News stations play on this to get ratings. Would you buy fish caught in China? Drive a car with
51 SPREE34 : Correct. I was lousy incomplete reporting. It was a "scare them" piece. Oh those terrible mean airlines. Almost as bad as those subversive ATC types.
52 Post contains images Hsw3rd : Lesson in this? Don't watch FOX, it's too right wing (sorry, couldn't resist)!
53 FlyDreamliner : Wow, I can't help but wonder if someone at Fox Colorado isn't a UA shareholder..... At least they got a picture of the right plane for their story...
54 Post contains images F9Animal : The fact that F9 even allowed this clown to come out to the flight line and check out the Q400 shows that F9 obviously is not concerned. Although I t
55 F9Animal : Oh man! I was hoping to edit out the defecating part! Oh well, at least you all know that was my intention. I don't know what got over me!
56 AirframeAS : If I understand you correctly, I didnt decide this. The F.A.A. decided this under Title 14 CFR 25 & 29 (Maybe 23??). Its outlined in there, I believe
57 Post contains images Mariner : But it isn't that. I am always reluctant to take to Fox News - there are reasons why the owner is nicknamed "the Dirty Digger" - but they do a deal m
58 Onaclearday : Responding to their quotes in the piece, you said: And I said: In the end, a poorly researched and amateurishly reported story speaks for itself, and
59 Post contains images OPNLguy : I'm sorry, but that's bovine fecal material. There is such a thing as the letter of the law, and the spirit of the law, and while "law" isn't technic
60 Post contains links BlueSkys : Send this to FOX news http://aviation-safety.net/database/dblist.php?Type=184 3 fatal accidents in type history. All pilot error... None of them cause
61 Starlionblue : There was that old clip about "this is the first fully computerized airliner..." showing the 320 crash at Mulhouse. Same story there. All 32x acciden
62 SkyyMaster : Easier said than done. The media chooses what they print or televise. Do we know that they did not talk to these people and get these facts, and "con
63 PC12Fan : Uh huh, I did escort duties at STL for a news crew and it took 7 minutes alone for a guy to do ONE LINE because he was such a pompous arrogant perfec
64 Amazonphil : In CO the lowest MEA I ever saw crossing the Front Range..which where the DH8"s would cross going/coming into DIA is around 12,500ft. I have mucho ho
65 Post contains images National757 : Shhh...someone might alert the news media in Phoenix and say there are possible safety concerns flying US Airways.
66 Post contains images Amazonphil : I know, but at least the MEA issue wouldn't be a problem...the "highest" peak around the immediate KPHX arrvl/dept area is Crown King peak which tops
67 Amazonphil : I remember once upon a time flying the DH7's, the 4 engine on CO Express to Telliride,Durange, Aspen...what an incrediably tough ship! I a confident t
68 LAXdude1023 : Amen to that. I hate FOX News for that Reason. It would just as bad if they were completely left wing. News reporting needs to be objective and FOX N
69 Post contains images OPNLguy : Just believing their own PR methinks...
70 Post contains images Platinumfoota : They mentioned that UA hadnt called them back, maybe they outsourced their comments too
71 Socalfive : Exactly right, however, not just them, ALL NEWS should be considered entertainment, not news.
72 SupraZachAir : They are not as they're only certified to FL250. I believe the DHC-8-400 is available certified to FL270 with oxygen masks installed.
73 STLGph : Are you talking about the interviewer or the reporter? When the reporter cuts their package, yes, they'll probably spend a few minutes working on one
74 BlueSkys : Bi Partisan, Bull crap is bull crap! Nice to see some normal thinking people on this thread.
75 USAirways737 : So I just received a response from my 2 cents I sent to FOX Colorado and am surprised at how fast I got a response. Just to see if they are sending ou
76 AirframeAS : They questioned in their story that the Q400 was maybe unsafe. This should have never aired in the first place OR they could have titled it a bit dif
77 Post contains images BlueSkys : Yeah! OK!!!! Lol, thanks for the inside scoop USairways!
78 Post contains images Mariner : He may be. The point is, we only know what Fox chose to show, just as you choose to ignore that the item starts with a bias. And you've got 12? I've
79 OPNLguy : I don't know how you maintain your balance with all that spin... Of course we weren't talking about fonts being mention in their story--it was given
80 Amazonphil : Nice post OPNLguy. There are other aircraft that have similar criteria.. Cessna's P210 is one that crosses my mind. While the 'aircraft' is capable o
81 USAirways737 : Here is a quick recap of my reply to the oh-so-reputable-reporter Leland Vittert: I guess my point is best illustrated by a quote taken right from you
82 Post contains images AirframeAS :    In additon to that, some great light reading would be good for a select few: Title 14 CFR 21 "Certification procedures for products and parts."
83 Post contains images FATFlyer : Wait. A Colorado news story about airlines without a Mike Boyd quote? Now there's a real sign they didn't do good research.
84 StuckInCA : All of them? Five minutes? Maybe yours do. I had the same thought. Wise words. (after a long time coming, added to my RU list... as if it matters) LO
85 Amazonphil : I would imagine that many quick descents were performed in the testing stages of the Q400(and DH8's) to see how quickly the aircraft to could get to
86 OPNLguy : Thanks for the kind words.. I just thought of another possible reason they aired this crap--Fox is just plain desperate for ratings. That "Anchorwoma
87 Mariner : Good thoughts always matter. Cheers and thanks. maariner
88 Post contains images Warszawa : Fox news now reporting fellow new hire amateur, seen below, reported this significant safety flaw:
89 TCFC424 : Somebody mentioned that according to Part 121, above 10K feet, one pilot must be on O2...does this mean that every commercial flight has a pilot sucki
90 3201 : How do you know, were you there? Did you talk to someone at the station or Frontier? I guess you and your NewsOne team are more efficient (or less th
91 Amazonphil : No, not 10K but I believe it is FL180...but somebody correct me if not correct. Felipe
92 OPNLguy : The exact FAR escapes me at the moment, but if operating above FL250 -and- one pilot leaves the flight deck, the remaining pilot must don their oxyge
93 Wjcandee : I'm happy to edit their smug, lame response if someone wishes to send it on to them. We appreciate your comments about our story regarding Frontier's
94 Amazonphil : Or to the front and side of each seat...kind of like in the 11:00 position for the CAP and 1:00 position for the F/O CO's. They are an octopus type q
95 Mexicana767 : Just did!!!! It's a shame that the news has a tendancy of doing stuff like this.
96 OPNLguy : Great letter, just send it as is...
97 ABQ747 : Aren't all news stations desperate for ratings? ABQ's local ABC affiliate does the same sensationalized reporting.
98 Post contains images OPNLguy : You're right, of course. Funny thing is we're not even in a "sweeps" period--imagine how much worse it'd be then..
99 Mach3 : Never take anything to heart that comes out of the mouth's of Denver Media. Remember Paula Woodward kiss the Ramse'y tush's in her interview about the
100 AirportGuy1971 : Next on FOX 31... Unsafe conditions on Colorado's highways... Hunderds at risk on a daily basis.... Colorado highways at serious risk as FOX 31 discov
101 Post contains images Warszawa : Lisa, yes, glider aircraft pose significant risk as they fly without engines. Without engines they may never be able to propel themselves down to the
102 Starlionblue : Reasonable questioning is always a good thing. Sometimes even certified aircraft are unsafe. Note the old 747 cargo doors, which had several incident
103 Post contains images PC12Fan : He reported, we have definitely decided. He should have provided all the facts which is something not done by a lot of reporters when it comes to avi
104 717-200 : Sounds like Mike Boyd needs to go down the road and talk to those tabloid journalists and straighten them out. Here in Seattle the news media seems t
105 Spoke2Spoke : Who are these experienced aviation industry members? They aren't quoted in the story. USAirways737 I will let you know if I get the same response tha
106 KingCavalier : Looks like the same pre-packaged response I received - "We appreciate your comments about our story regarding Frontier’s new aircraft, the Q400. Ou
107 Post contains images OPNLguy : I sent them something as well, and even quoted some of Leland Vittert's stupid rationales and why they were stupid. What did I get in response? You g
108 Soon7x7 : If your in a situation where oxygen must be deployed, you're probably better off passing out until the situation is over anyway...either that or FREE
109 Highflier92660 : Why are the aero-educated here getting all worked up over these Bozos at a local Fox affiliate in Denver? Implicit in the story was that Frontier boug
110 Brick : "An emergency decent while flying through mountains is unsafe" is one of the themes in this story. One thing I haven't seen mentioned....the initial r
111 JoeCanuck : Look...you folks cut that out...what kind of a world would it be if Fox started using facts in their news...?
112 Airbus63 : From Fax news: We appreciate your comments about our story regarding Frontier's new aircraft, the Q400. Our reporting reflected the concerns of some h
113 KingCavalier : I think it's because stories like this bring unnecessary anxiety to the travelling public. Plus, it could harm the success of this new business and a
114 Starlionblue : There is also an assumption that mountainous terrain is high all over. While there are small areas where descent cannot be made, you don't have to tr
115 Post contains images L-188 : You never saw "Airport" Dean Martin covered that. Has anybody tried to find out if those phone numbers are legit? Wouldn't it be great if some of our
116 Post contains images OPNLguy : Funny you mention that--I did see an F/O tell an F/A one time that, "sometimes, it helps..."
117 Access-Air : Hello, for many years Allegheny Airlines and then USAir flew their fleet of nearly 30 BAC 111-200s without the Supplemental Oxygen installed. They wer
118 ACJAZZAME : Wow, I can't believe this story has raised so much interest on A-net. I'm glad to see whether you like turboprops or not so many members have voiced t
119 Access-Air : I almost forgot......The original Fronteir Airlines used to fly Convair 580s all over this area as did Aspen Airways....And both of those carrier's Co
120 Post contains images Travatl : Just like USAToday is McPaper, any Fox-related news source (especially FNN) is McJourna-Sensationlism.
121 Post contains links KingCavalier : Nice article Giving Props to Props - http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1655707,00.html
122 Access-Air : I thought that was an issue for the DC10 weh it first came out as the Sub-contractor General Dynamics stated to MCD that the Door latchees needed to
123 N908AW : A.nutters know that. But the general public might not know what the heck the FAA is. News-gathering institutions do a great job of judging things tha
124 Post contains links and images AirframeAS : You raise a vaild point, however, my understanding is that this aircraft is spankin' brand-new airplane that has not seen revenue service yet, IIRC.
125 LAXdude1023 : I dont like flying in Props, but its not because I think they are unsafe. They are much smaller, they give a bumpy ride more times than not, and being
126 F9Animal : I was very disappointed in the report. It was obviously just a move to get ratings, and obviously the reporter owes the public a sincere apology for h
127 STLGph : Well, we are number one... I'm in tv, let's just put it this way "i'm in". This wasn't a smear campaign. But I wouldn't go putting the story on a res
128 Post contains images OPNLguy : No memo, but try 121.333 (d)(3)(e)(1). FL250 to down to 14,000 feet is 11,000 feet, and to comply with the 4-minute rule, that's a 2,750fpm rate of d
129 Post contains links and images Mariner : You seem determined to miss the point. From Mr. Vittert's justification, as published on My Fox: http://www.myfoxcolorado.com/myfox/p...EN-US&layoutC
130 Post contains images AirframeAS : Then why the story in the first place if the F.A.A. said it isnt required and the plane has its Airworthiness Certificates issued by the F.A.A. under
131 SkyyMaster : Obviously you've never been in a Q400. It is as roomy and appears roomier than any regional jet. I'm 6'3", and have flown QX, and there was plenty of
132 Post contains images HowSwedeitis : Typical sensationalist media trying to make a big deal out of nothing. They know a lot of people have an irrational fear of flying, so they try to ma
133 PC12Fan : No, but the reporter sure did. Both sides of the fence. Your opinion. Sure it was fine, but I characterize it as a type of "taken out of context" app
134 Post contains images National757 : Which is exactly why it was irresponsible of the station/Leland Vittert to run that news story in the first place. It baffles me why you continue to
135 SPREE34 : There's a typical drive by one liner that has become so prevalent in the media. Show us the memo that says they ARE associated with the safety of the
136 Starlionblue : I agree. I just meant that there are exceptional cases, NOT including the one "raised" by the news report.
137 Mcg : My questions are: Why in heaven's name did F9 let the reporter sit in the pilots seat of the airplane to do the "reporting" (I use the term loosely) a
138 SkyyMaster : Back in the 70's when I was considering journalism as a career and in college, this was known as yellow journalism, taken from the old New York newsp
139 Post contains images Smcmac32msn : So your saying the Frontier pilot did the story editing and cut out parts? I'm sure that was all he said the whole time with the "reporter".
140 L-188 : Exactly, which is why reports like this are particularly damaging. It is a problem created by the media that does exist....essentallly a lie. That su
141 Milesrich : Flying props over the mountains out of Denver is certainly nothing new. Rocky Mountain Airways (later CO Express) operated Dash 7's into Vail. As othe
142 OPNLguy : But it won't, at least not for him, seeing how as he apparently believes the media has free rein to edit and otherwise manipulate facts to serve a pr
143 L-188 : I think that is a given And seeing how over the past 20 years a lot of independent newspapers have merged into mega media corperations, I only see th
144 Post contains images SkyyMaster : I've commented previously in this thread I once studied journalism and it was my career desire at one time. The basic ideals I was taught in college
145 OPNLguy : I just got an email from a buddy of mine at Frontier HQ, and he asked me to pass along the following... "...and by the way...if you happen to post on
146 Wjcandee : My favorite thing about "Anchorwoman", which the media of course savaged and which has now been pulled by Fox, was how the reality show's producer wo
147 OPNLguy : Sounds good, I'll check into it...
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