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Could FlyI Ever Make A Comeback?  
User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1665 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 4 months 1 hour ago) and read 2517 times:

Hey everyone:

I was just thinking about FlyI as I was looking at some pictures, and I was wondering, could FlyI ever make a comeback? They would get recertified and so-fourth, but with a couple changes to their business model, could they be more successful?

I would think that they would need to choose a better fleet, and instead of the CRJ, they could go with something like the E-170 and E-190. Something else would be to not start off with such a huge schedule. Instead of going with 5-7 flights daily, start off with like 2-3 and build if the service proves to be successful.

Any thoughts? remember, just an idea


Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJbmitt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 549 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 1 hour ago) and read 2492 times:

The CRJ is the aircraft that FlyI had after existing as ACA and flying for United and Delta Connection. If they had larger, more comfortable aircraft such as the E-series they would have been able to fly for either at better rates. FlyI was never intended as a start-up, rather a transition to an untested business model from an existing plan. I don't think that they could be succesful under the circumstances that they evolved from and into.

ExpressJet seems similar in many regards flying p2p routes, with an above average product, and enduring financial losses. Fortunately, they still have contract flying that should help them in the short term.


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 1 hour ago) and read 2465 times:

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 1):

ExpressJet seems similar in many regards flying p2p routes, .

But that's where they are NOT similar. FlyI was HEAVILY hubbed in IAD, and flying people well out of their way to IAD to connect them, still at rock bottom prices.

XJet is a point to point airline for the most part, and has no hubbing to speak of. Sure they have some very small focus cities, but they are far less hubbed and more P2P-ed than that big 737 airline that claims to have no hubs.


User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2383 times:

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 1):
with an above average product, and enduring financial losses. Fortunately, they still have contract flying that should help them in the short term.

It will probably help them for the long term. They could have laid off the less senior people but did the "right" thing. They are a much better managed airline than Flyi could ever be. Also they probably could not return under the name Flyi as they screwed that up. The only airline that has really come back from the dead and made it work is Frontier.


User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2345 times:

Maybe I will work for the new FLYi

lol like thats ever gonna happen. Easiest way is to just rename some existing LCC than a new company.



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2345 times:

And ExpressJet's fares are MUCH higher, on average than flyI's.
flyI billed itself as an LCC. ExpressJet is just. an airline.
-a



What now?
User currently offlineMetJetCEO From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 412 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2317 times:

I loved Independence. I used to fly them on a 35 minute flight between IAD and EWR. IN that 35 minute flight every person got a drink, a snack and a warm towellette. In some instances every passenger got a mint or candy as they stepped off the plane. I never met a rude FLYI employee, and loved their terminal at IAD.

User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2296 times:

Yes I loved flying them on several routes

JFK-IAD
IAD-ATL
IAD-EWR
IAD-SFO
IAD-LAS

Towlettes, more reasonable snacks than peanuts, drinks, mints, etc
The seats on DH felt a bit more cushiony than a B6 seat that you could slide out of.



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlinePhllax From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2243 times:

There is no way they could make a comeback.

During their Chapter 7 filing, their certificate was sold to what is now NWA subsidiary Compass Airlines.


User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1665 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2178 times:

Quoting Phllax (Reply 8):
During their Chapter 7 filing, their certificate was sold to what is now NWA subsidiary Compass Airlines

True, but couldn't they just re-apply for a new one?



Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4528 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

Although FlyI's mostly-CRJ fleet probably doomed them for CASM reasons, I always thought that maybe--just maybe--they would have had a chance if they had adjusted their business model. They had (IIRC) 87 CRJ's that had to be flying, out of the the gate (so to speak), on day one. There weren't any EMB-170's or CR7's on the property. Anyway, ordering the A319's was probably enough to utilize their credit rating without trying to turn over the CRJ fleet too.

Their way to get this huge CRJ fleet airborne on day one, as noted above, was to throw huge amounts of capacity (8x to 10x daily on medium-size routes upon which United kept its usual capacity) from IAD. United of course had to respond heavily to this assault on domestic feed at its east coast hub. Granted, Skeen & Co. may have thought that UA--who was in bankruptcy at that point--wouldn't fight back. If so, that was a huge miscalculation. So UA matched fares, probably did FF promotions (UA experts correct me if wrong), and waged a full-scale battle. FlyI staked its entire business plan on flying 300 daily departures from IAD. And---as my fellow FlyI flyers will remember--it didn't help that this sudden upsurge in a/c movements caused a lot of delays at IAD as well.

I thought at the time that they should have dispersed about half their fleet to do point to point routes, like what ExpressJet does now as noted above. So instead of 8x ROC-IAD, they should have done say 5x ROC-IAD and 3x ROC-BOS (no LCC competition on that route). Repeat story around the system--run routes like BUF-BOS, CLE-BOS, JFK-CMH (no JetBlue on the route at that time); JFK-BNA, etc. That way they aren't throwing 87 RJ's and a $300 million bankroll all at any one airline's sacred cow.

Would it have worked? Probably not; the RJ CASM was a lot to try to overcome on an LCC model, even with A319's on line to help out. But I think whatever chance Independence Air had, would have rested with a plan like what I'm describing. Oe problem was, from what I could tell in the Washington Post stories, that Skeen & Co. seemed to think they were invincible. Which is never a good assumption to make.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5120 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2087 times:

Quoting MetJetCEO (Reply 6):
I loved Independence. I used to fly them on a 35 minute flight between IAD and EWR. IN that 35 minute flight every person got a drink, a snack and a warm towellette. In some instances every passenger got a mint or candy as they stepped off the plane. I never met a rude FLYI employee, and loved their terminal at IAD.

I do miss them. I was very hopeful that they would make it. I would be all for them making a comeback.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4178 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2074 times:
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Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 9):
True, but couldn't they just re-apply for a new one?

But why would "they" ? Who do you mean by "they" ? The original company still exists (I think) but is under the control of the liquidators whose mandate is to liquidate the assets of the company in a way that will maximize the amount of money going to debtors. No business plan for the (re)launch of a carrier will ever achieve that mandate. Until the liquidation is complete, the name is theirs to dispose of. In the unlikely case someone wanted to use it, they'd have to license it for a fee.

The managers and investors have moved on. If they make another go at the LCC industry, they'll take what they learned from the Independence Air (good and bad) and start fresh, with a new name. It is easier to earn a new reputation than drag a tarnished one from the bankruptcy gutter.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineTCFC424 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1919 times:

Is the question whether FlyI could make a comeback, or whether someone could come in, tweak their business model and make it work?

The first question is easy. Nobody would want to reinvent FlyI, and likely couldn't. Along with their cert probably went naming rights (Ala Valujet/Airtran).

The second question is a little more pensive. Could a (mostly) RJ business model work. The possibility is there, I believe, with the right equipment. I HATE CRJs, but I like the E-jets. Short haul P2P, I think it could work. The choices have to be made smartly, however. FlyI tried to be an LCC RJ HUB carrier. That plan was doomed when they concocted it. I think that XJet has the right idea. Spread your model across the nation, and partner with carriers. WN only goes to a city if they can have 14 flights per day (correct me if I am wrong). That is unrealistic if you are a small P2P RJ operator. Partner with an airline (as SY does[did?] with DL) and share resources. Sure, it will cost, but allows a lot more flexibility. Could it work? Absolutely. Will it work? Watch XJet and see!

Mike S. in AUS


User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1828 times:

Well Flyi had to terminate the DLX contracts etc and others since the contract stated that Flyi must never fly any larger jets on its own brand even if not in direct competition. The A319s came, Flyi had to give up contract services. XJ is not flying larger jets, so they can still maintain DLX


There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
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