JetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1713 posts, RR: 1 Posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2796 times:
I was just thinking about FlyI as I was looking at some pictures, and I was wondering, could FlyI ever make a comeback? They would get recertified and so-fourth, but with a couple changes to their business model, could they be more successful?
I would think that they would need to choose a better fleet, and instead of the CRJ, they could go with something like the E-170 and E-190. Something else would be to not start off with such a huge schedule. Instead of going with 5-7 flights daily, start off with like 2-3 and build if the service proves to be successful.
Any thoughts? remember, just an idea
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
Jbmitt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 577 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2771 times:
The CRJ is the aircraft that FlyI had after existing as ACA and flying for United and Delta Connection. If they had larger, more comfortable aircraft such as the E-series they would have been able to fly for either at better rates. FlyI was never intended as a start-up, rather a transition to an untested business model from an existing plan. I don't think that they could be succesful under the circumstances that they evolved from and into.
ExpressJet seems similar in many regards flying p2p routes, with an above average product, and enduring financial losses. Fortunately, they still have contract flying that should help them in the short term.
Tornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2744 times:
Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 1):
ExpressJet seems similar in many regards flying p2p routes, .
But that's where they are NOT similar. FlyI was HEAVILY hubbed in IAD, and flying people well out of their way to IAD to connect them, still at rock bottom prices.
XJet is a point to point airline for the most part, and has no hubbing to speak of. Sure they have some very small focus cities, but they are far less hubbed and more P2P-ed than that big 737 airline that claims to have no hubs.
SkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2662 times:
Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 1): with an above average product, and enduring financial losses. Fortunately, they still have contract flying that should help them in the short term.
It will probably help them for the long term. They could have laid off the less senior people but did the "right" thing. They are a much better managed airline than Flyi could ever be. Also they probably could not return under the name Flyi as they screwed that up. The only airline that has really come back from the dead and made it work is Frontier.
MetJetCEO From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 415 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2596 times:
I loved Independence. I used to fly them on a 35 minute flight between IAD and EWR. IN that 35 minute flight every person got a drink, a snack and a warm towellette. In some instances every passenger got a mint or candy as they stepped off the plane. I never met a rude FLYI employee, and loved their terminal at IAD.
DCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4624 posts, RR: 31
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2381 times:
Although FlyI's mostly-CRJ fleet probably doomed them for CASM reasons, I always thought that maybe--just maybe--they would have had a chance if they had adjusted their business model. They had (IIRC) 87 CRJ's that had to be flying, out of the the gate (so to speak), on day one. There weren't any EMB-170's or CR7's on the property. Anyway, ordering the A319's was probably enough to utilize their credit rating without trying to turn over the CRJ fleet too.
Their way to get this huge CRJ fleet airborne on day one, as noted above, was to throw huge amounts of capacity (8x to 10x daily on medium-size routes upon which United kept its usual capacity) from IAD. United of course had to respond heavily to this assault on domestic feed at its east coast hub. Granted, Skeen & Co. may have thought that UA--who was in bankruptcy at that point--wouldn't fight back. If so, that was a huge miscalculation. So UA matched fares, probably did FF promotions (UA experts correct me if wrong), and waged a full-scale battle. FlyI staked its entire business plan on flying 300 daily departures from IAD. And---as my fellow FlyI flyers will remember--it didn't help that this sudden upsurge in a/c movements caused a lot of delays at IAD as well.
I thought at the time that they should have dispersed about half their fleet to do point to point routes, like what ExpressJet does now as noted above. So instead of 8x ROC-IAD, they should have done say 5x ROC-IAD and 3x ROC-BOS (no LCC competition on that route). Repeat story around the system--run routes like BUF-BOS, CLE-BOS, JFK-CMH (no JetBlue on the route at that time); JFK-BNA, etc. That way they aren't throwing 87 RJ's and a $300 million bankroll all at any one airline's sacred cow.
Would it have worked? Probably not; the RJ CASM was a lot to try to overcome on an LCC model, even with A319's on line to help out. But I think whatever chance Independence Air had, would have rested with a plan like what I'm describing. Oe problem was, from what I could tell in the Washington Post stories, that Skeen & Co. seemed to think they were invincible. Which is never a good assumption to make.
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
F9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5498 posts, RR: 16
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2366 times:
Quoting MetJetCEO (Reply 6): I loved Independence. I used to fly them on a 35 minute flight between IAD and EWR. IN that 35 minute flight every person got a drink, a snack and a warm towellette. In some instances every passenger got a mint or candy as they stepped off the plane. I never met a rude FLYI employee, and loved their terminal at IAD.
I do miss them. I was very hopeful that they would make it. I would be all for them making a comeback.
But why would "they" ? Who do you mean by "they" ? The original company still exists (I think) but is under the control of the liquidators whose mandate is to liquidate the assets of the company in a way that will maximize the amount of money going to debtors. No business plan for the (re)launch of a carrier will ever achieve that mandate. Until the liquidation is complete, the name is theirs to dispose of. In the unlikely case someone wanted to use it, they'd have to license it for a fee.
The managers and investors have moved on. If they make another go at the LCC industry, they'll take what they learned from the Independence Air (good and bad) and start fresh, with a new name. It is easier to earn a new reputation than drag a tarnished one from the bankruptcy gutter.
When we unleash the dogs of war we must go where they take us
TCFC424 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 538 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2198 times:
Is the question whether FlyI could make a comeback, or whether someone could come in, tweak their business model and make it work?
The first question is easy. Nobody would want to reinvent FlyI, and likely couldn't. Along with their cert probably went naming rights (Ala Valujet/Airtran).
The second question is a little more pensive. Could a (mostly) RJ business model work. The possibility is there, I believe, with the right equipment. I HATE CRJs, but I like the E-jets. Short haul P2P, I think it could work. The choices have to be made smartly, however. FlyI tried to be an LCC RJ HUB carrier. That plan was doomed when they concocted it. I think that XJet has the right idea. Spread your model across the nation, and partner with carriers. WN only goes to a city if they can have 14 flights per day (correct me if I am wrong). That is unrealistic if you are a small P2P RJ operator. Partner with an airline (as SY does[did?] with DL) and share resources. Sure, it will cost, but allows a lot more flexibility. Could it work? Absolutely. Will it work? Watch XJet and see!
Malaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3441 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2107 times:
Well Flyi had to terminate the DLX contracts etc and others since the contract stated that Flyi must never fly any larger jets on its own brand even if not in direct competition. The A319s came, Flyi had to give up contract services. XJ is not flying larger jets, so they can still maintain DLX
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens