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What happened to HP's order for A318s?  
User currently offlineLASOctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6332 times:

i just read somewhere that HP placed a firm order for 15 A318s...not after the US merge, but before. what ever happenend to those? what IAE variants would they have?


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20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6310 times:

That order was I believe taken up by HP after TW merged with AA. The A318s were supposed to be powered by PW6122 engines, but in the end, HP cancelled those orders, probably in favour of more A319s, after it came out that the PW6000 engine had design flaws which delayed its EIS.

User currently offlineJlbmedia From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6248 times:

Would the A318's have worked out for HP/US, or was the demise of the order a good thing for them? John.


JLB54061
User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6224 times:

Quoting Jlbmedia (Reply 2):
Would the A318's have worked out for HP/US, or was the demise of the order a good thing for them? John.

the A318 has proven to be not such a great fit for most US Airlines, just look at F9, they have traded up their 318 options to 319's for a few years now. I love the 318, but HP was smart to get 319's instead.


User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6145 times:

I have an HP magazine at home from November 2001 showing the A318 as being ordered on the fleet page. Just a little piece of aviation history now.

User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1331 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6117 times:

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 3):
I love the 318, but HP was smart to get 319's instead.

I agree, it was a smart move. I had the chance to fly on one of F9's A318 last week and it was a great flight, but the extra capacity of the A319 makes more sense given that the running costs are so close.

Charles


User currently offlineAsuflyer05 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2371 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6064 times:

A quick search of the terms 'HP A318' and 'America West A318' yielded the following result:

Will US Airways Take Delivery Of The A318?
Posted by Columba on Tuesday August 14, 2007 at 08:58

In addtion...
USAirways Restructures And Increases Airbus Order
HP And US Fleet Size After Merger
Boeing 737-600 - Why Such A Flop?


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25110 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6039 times:
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Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 3):
just look at F9, they have traded up their 318 options to 319's for a few years now.

I don't think so. They ordered four more A318's, the last of which was delivered in June.

They did swap some A319 options for A320, though.

mariner

[Edited 2007-08-25 07:50:29]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5026 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5952 times:

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 3):
the A318 has proven to be not such a great fit for most US Airlines, just look at F9, they have traded up their 318 options to 319's for a few years now. I love the 318, but HP was smart to get 319's instead.

Actually the 318's are doing great for F9. It works well in markets that are not showing numbers like the 319 does. I have found they use them more in markets that are seasonal hits like SEA for example. You will notice them switch from 319's to more 318's during the winter months when traffic in SEA slows a bit. Other great areas to focus the 318's on are markets that F9 is a newcomer to. It usually takes a little time to build good traffic numbers on new routes. I love the 318 personally, and it was always a treat to fly on them. Not much of a difference in them as far as a passengers point of view, but it was fun knowing I have been on them. For a growing airline like F9, I can see the smaller aircraft as a good tester so to speak. I guess Spirit would be another good example of it too.

I could see the benefit of the 318's for US in the cases mentioned above, but US is pretty established on most of its routes. The E190 seems to be a suitable bird for them.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineKrisYUL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5921 times:

Shame you don't see more A318's - it's kinda like a twin-jet Jumbolino (BAe 146). It's so adorable, you almost want to forgive JL for his sins just because Airbus makes it - almost...

[Edited 2007-08-25 08:52:03]

User currently offlineLASOctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5828 times:

im wondering how this went from HP to AC....  Smile


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User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5567 times:

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 8):
was smart to get 319's instead.

Actually the 318's are doing great for F9. It works well in markets that are not showing numbers like the 319 does



Quoting Mariner (Reply 7):
I don't think so. They ordered four more A318's, the last of which was delivered in June

I am not saying they are not a good airplane, I am saying they have limited generic utility and don't work as a "backbone" fleet aircraft. I was just on a F9 A318 from DAY to DEN 3 weeks ago and have always loved the type. The A318 is not significantly cheaper to operate than the 319, that is why F9 changed out to more A319's from the original A318 order.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17439 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5542 times:

Quoting Jlbmedia (Reply 2):
Would the A318's have worked out for HP/US, or was the demise of the order a good thing for them?

It makes little sense, especially for an LCC, to buy an aircraft whose operating costs are essentially the same as a A319, but with fewer seats.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLASOctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4399 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):

It makes little sense, especially for an LCC, to buy an aircraft whose operating costs are essentially the same as a A319, but with fewer seats.

but wouldnt they go for the A319 for the range if the op. costs are the same on the A318?



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User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17439 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4302 times:

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 13):
but wouldnt they go for the A319 for the range if the op. costs are the same on the A318?

I don't follow...the A319 has a longer range than the A318.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25110 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4175 times:
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Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 11):
that is why F9 changed out to more A319's from the original A318 order.

The original order was for 10 - 5 firm and 5 options. They exercised 2 options, and in one of the early amendments to the contract, yes, they coverted the three options to A319.

But when they ordered the A320, they also converted 8 x A319 options - to 4 x A320 and 4 x A318:

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2006-02-23-frontier-a320_x.htm

They now have a fleet of 11 and the original order was for 10.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4074 times:

IIRC, HP converted those 318 orders into 319's sometime in 2003. Old news.


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineJlbmedia From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3975 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 1):
HP cancelled those orders, probably in favour of more A319s



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16):
IIRC, HP converted those 318 orders into 319's sometime in 2003. Old news.

It's very old news, we were given the news in the first reply!



JLB54061
User currently offlineLASOctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3915 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
I don't follow...the A319 has a longer range than the A318.

if the A319 has the range, but has the same operating costs as the A318, wouldnt it be smarter to go with A319?



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User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3014 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2605 times:

I don't think the A318 would be good choice for the HP/US fleet now...

Even though it is fully compatible with other single aisle A320 family in the fleet. It is the wrong aircraft for the job, in this market. The EMB 190/195's do the job far better and at much less cost!

The A318 is in exactly the same position as the 737-600, it is too much aircraft for th job! While the 737-700/A319 and the 737-800/A320 all thrive the 737-600/A318 market is a complete flop!

With aircrafts like the BAe 146 and Fokker 70/100's coming to the end of their useful like, both Boeing and Airbus were hoping to capitalise with airlines placing replacement orders A318. This has not really happened, and a good example is FlyBE here in the UK that went for the EMB E-195 instead, to replace their clapped out old BAe 146's. Airbus have also tried to get the A318's certified to land into LCY which requires STOL certification, and successfully achieved this, but no airlines who operate in this market has come forward yet to place an order!


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17439 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2509 times:

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 18):
if the A319 has the range, but has the same operating costs as the A318, wouldnt it be smarter to go with A319?

Yes--you're essentially getting 20 additional seats for free with the A319 versus the A318.



E pur si muove -Galileo
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