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LH Plans Aquisitions In Europe  
User currently offlineGbfra From Germany, joined Sep 2006, 448 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6218 times:

According to the German "Wirtschaftswoche" LH plans aquisitions of airlines in Europe.
LH-CEO Wolfgang Mayrhuber calls BMI "an option".
http://www.wiwo.de/pswiwo/fn/ww2/sfn...99426/fm/0/SH/0/depot/0/index.html


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36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6194 times:

I'm sorry to say this is a "no news" -that statement has been floating around since three,four months.
It basically boils down to "..yes-we observe the market,Iberia is to expensive,no interest in AZ,yes BMI looks interesting.."



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User currently offlineFlyTUITravel From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 723 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5963 times:

Would they buy SN? Or is that too small to make any difference to them?

User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2238 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5767 times:

I'd laugh (and jump with joy!) if the rumor of LH buying JU materializes; its been doing the rounds for a few months now Big grin


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User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9210 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5642 times:

Did Alitalia fold? Would they be interested in any bit of that?


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User currently offlineDL777LAX From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 521 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5610 times:

Wait, isn't LH still integrating LX into the system?

I speculate OS, they're still a small airline, and I could easily see LH integrating the two. That would also effectively make LH the largest airline in the German speaking part of Europe.



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User currently offlineCyba From Cape Verde, joined Nov 2005, 208 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5457 times:

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 5):
Wait, isn't LH still integrating LX into the system?

I speculate OS, they're still a small airline, and I could easily see LH integrating the two. That would also effectively make LH the largest airline in the German speaking part of Europe.

Isn't that already the case?


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5276 times:

Any one of the following would be fairly easy to integrate with LH's operation, as they already have close cooperation through Star Alliance.

BD
JP
OU
OS
LO

but I'd be prepared to bet on JK, AP, Aegean or even SAS. LH have a lot of money to spend.


User currently offlineGlobeEx From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 742 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4988 times:

I guess OS is pretty unlikely. LH was already saying that the fact that LXs Hub Zurich was close to other LH-Hubs is a small problem for them. So getting an Airline with an Hub (Vienna) that is that close to one of their Hubs (MUC) seems pretty unlikely. Having a Hub in Vienna might be interesting for them, looking at connections to Easter Europe. However, LH is doing that pretty well already from MUC, which already has more connections to Eastern Europe than FRA.

The speculation that they could do something with Spanair in Connection with TAP also seems unlikely, as the still could not expand into South America, which LHs would love to do, due to Spanairs foreign ownership.

Taking over SAS seems to be an interesting option, if they would be able to expand SASs longhaul network.

I don't see, what they would do with YAT, since they, as already mentioned do get a good feed from Eastern Europe by MUC.

The most likely would seem to be BMI. They already have a nice amount ot shares. BMI offers an interesting amount of slots in LHR and together with LH they would have close to 25% of the slots in LHR (Is that right? LH~9-10% and BMI ~14%? Or does LH have ~ 5%)

Looking at what is happening in Italy right now, expanding in that market would be a very interesting option as well. In case the Alitalia story will not end with an happyend, there would be a huge vacuum, where LH could take a very nice share.

GlobeEx

[Edited 2007-08-26 14:08:23]

[Edited 2007-08-26 14:10:15]


As you may presently yourself be fully made aware of, my grammar sucks.
User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 weeks ago) and read 4358 times:

Quoting GlobeEx (Reply 8):
The most likely would seem to be BMI. They already have a nice amount ot shares. BMI offers an interesting amount of slots in LHR and together with LH they would have close to 25% of the slots in LHR (Is that right? LH~9-10% and BMI ~14%? Or does LH have ~ 5%)

LH has 29 daily flights to LHR (HAM 3x, DUS 4x, CGN 3x, FRA 10x, STR 2x, MUC 7x), so 58 daily slots. Does that even qualifies for 5%?


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27003 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 weeks ago) and read 4316 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 7):
Aegean

That would be my guess also A3 would be a good choice.They are already codesharing and co operating with their FFP's also.


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 weeks ago) and read 4277 times:

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 9):
LH has 29 daily flights to LHR (HAM 3x, DUS 4x, CGN 3x, FRA 10x, STR 2x, MUC 7x), so 58 daily slots. Does that even qualifies for 5%?

If you add the Swiss-slots into LHR, you can add ten flights/day for the LH group.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineAdicool From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 weeks ago) and read 4209 times:

I think it's pretty obvious that LH want to buy BD and their slots in LHR, especially with the open-sky agreement coming up. By acquiring BD, *A could FINALLY have a regular service LHR-JFK and LH could improve it's position in the UK so I think this will be a top priority for them.
I really don't see anything else happen for LH in the near future. Maybe, but just maybe, LH will try to get some control over AirOne and help them to become a long-haul carrier and a member of *A.


User currently offlineGlobeEx From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 742 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 weeks ago) and read 4104 times:

Hm, not sure, howmany slot they do have. Thought, i had something like that in mind. But checkt about the BMI slots and there I was right. Anyway. At the moment, LH is the biggest Airline at LHR, isn't that true?
But 40 Flights per day equal 80 movements. Isn't that close to what LHR handels /hour? So close to 5% could well be, couldn't it?
So 14% plus ~ 4 comes close to 20% which would be more than a third of BAs capacity.

GlobeEX

[Edited 2007-08-26 17:10:42]


As you may presently yourself be fully made aware of, my grammar sucks.
User currently offlineAdicool From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3952 times:

Quoting GlobeEx (Reply 13):
...At the moment, LH is the biggest Airline at LHR, isn't that true?

LH are the biggest not-british carrier at LHR.
And i think BA have around ~35+% of the slots in LHR


User currently offlineQazar From Canada, joined May 2006, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3923 times:

SAS!!! Forget it... LH would be buying Union problems - not an airline!

Austrian Airlines would not bring the Lufthansa Group any added value... They are already rooted in the Star Alliance throug the Miles&More program with very little chance of defection unless they have a wish to rid themselves of all their loyalty program clients.

I agree with GlobeEx with his reasonning regarding Air One... This would be a very good investment if (when) Alitalia joins the TWA/PAN AM/SABENA/Swissair club.

BMI British Midland is also, in my opinion, the top contender!!! Their Heathrow slots, the open skies agreement between the US and EU that's about to hit the industry, the will of SAS to sell their remaining shares in BMI, and the idea of a direct competitor to BA on their home turf, all add up to make BMI a very attractive opportunity to LH.

So BMI and Air One would be the priority in my opinion, and I believe that LH has the cash to pull both purchases off without blinking.

In future years however, LOT and TAP would also be good contenders to join the LH empire.

I believe big changes in Spannair need to be brought to the airline before it becomes attractive for purchase.

As of Croatia Airlines and Adria Airways - I believe that if they are ever purchased by LH, the transaction would be swift, smooth and dwarfed by the size of LH comparative to these two other airlines.

Cheers!


User currently offlineGlobeEx From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 742 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3923 times:

Don't they have close to 50% of the slots?
And yes, they are the biggest non-british carrier at LHR and the third biggest after BA and BMI and in front of Virgin.
Another thing, just out of interest. Is AA bigger than AF (without KL) at LHR?

GlobeEX



As you may presently yourself be fully made aware of, my grammar sucks.
User currently offlineGlobeEx From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 742 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3880 times:

Quoting Qazar (Reply 15):
So BMI and Air One would be the priority in my opinion, and I believe that LH has the cash to pull both purchases off without blinking.

They sure would have the cash. However, I would guess they would not do it simultaneously as usually LH masters one thing at a time. After a successful integration of one of these they could try the other one. There is a reason they waited (still wait) to take over another airline after the takeover of LX and its not money, just the fact that they want to do everything right with an integration of one after going on to another.

GlobeEx



As you may presently yourself be fully made aware of, my grammar sucks.
User currently offlineAdicool From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3837 times:

So I think that's why we can see LH buying BD in the nearer future...SK have already mentioned that LH are the main clients for their BD shares and I read somewhere that SMB is willing to sell his remaining shares in BD so LH can have full control of the carrier.

User currently offlineXXMHxLHx5LXx From Germany, joined Mar 2007, 51 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3750 times:

Let Virgin Atlantic swallow bmi and join star alliance... I can imagine that this would give a lot of posibilities to VS regarding connecting traffic, as their codeshares to European destinations could use some upgrade. But having bmi in the LH group would indeed give LH a lot of opportunities in the UK market, when the open-sky agreement comes.

With AirOne and AirDolomiti, they could make a really good step into Italy.

What about TK? Not truly European, but that could mean a big step for Lufthansa in the mid-east sector. But one the other hand... That would be a really HUGE step into intercultural differences and problems and I don't think people would be too happy about the whole thing... But I still kind of like the idea... isn't TK supposed to join *A in 2008 anyway?



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User currently offlineGlobeEx From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 742 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3686 times:

Quoting XXMHxLHx5LXx (Reply 19):
Let Virgin Atlantic swallow bmi and join star alliance

Don't know how the chances for VS joining Star are, but I think they got slimmer with the idea of VS of buying its stock from SQ back. However for VS joining star would indeed be an good idea. Getting quite a good feed by LH, LX, OS, Lot, Tap etc. by basically contributing nothing (/little) to the others networks as they don't have short haul flights, which could feed into the other star-members networks. On the other hand, they would have a couple of Virgin expresses all over the world. So could these feed the other *A-Members networks?

Beside that, I think the chances are really slim, that LH would leave BD to Virgin with openskies coming.

[Edited 2007-08-26 18:11:39]


As you may presently yourself be fully made aware of, my grammar sucks.
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3025 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3647 times:

I think the most likely for Lufthansa to buyout if they decide to is BMI...

BMI is not the most profitable of airlines, but is at least making money, unlike some other airlines in Europe which are struggling. Also this gives LH a key to one of the most lucrative and profitable airports to fly from in the world...

I think they would cut the majority of BMI's short haul destinations to Europe and only leave the domestic flights, and with the flights they cut this would give them slots for Long Haul routes. I would think LHR passengers would be expected to connect via MUC or FRA for onward connections in Europe.

With BMI recently acquiring BMED, I think this also makes them more attractive... As these "long thin" routes can be very profitable if operated correctly and many of the routes only allow one UK airline to fly the route and would give LH access to this market too.

My views are a little old fashioned here and don't apologise for saying so, but it would be ashame to see a majority British owned airline being sold to a foreign carrier. But in the world of multi-international businesses, I think this is the way forward... For many years I think BMI has lacked focus and this has prevented them from major growth and investment and if LH took them over this would be the kick start they need. I think we would then be looking at three major UK long haul airlines, with BMI being able to and ready to kick BA and Virgin's butt!

One thing I can tell you is, the day Bishop sells his 51% stake in BMI, there will be a very bitter and long drawn out bidding war! It will be of interest to see how the chairman of BMI sways - if he will put the interests of the airline first or sell to the highest bidder to line his pocket... Even though airlines like easyJet would deny an interest, it would not surprise me if they tried to get a cut of the cake. Like FR did with Aer Lingus. I think EI and BM are very similar and have a lot in common.

I think BMI is also the only Star Alliance member in Europe to have their own Frequent Flyers program as alL the other airlines like Swiss, Austrian, LOT, Adria and Croatian use Lufthansa's "Miles&More" program. So this could be integrated and reduce further costs of BMI.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 7):
Any one of the following would be fairly easy to integrate with LH's operation, as they already have close cooperation through Star Alliance.

BD
JP
OU
OS
LO

I don't think LH has any interest in JP or OU, they may have close links with the airline, but their market and operatations are so small. Under European Open-Skies agreements LH could go and base aircrafts in both countries and starts flights up from Croatia and Slovenia. If they undercut both airlines, JP and OU would be shut down in a year!

[Edited 2007-08-26 18:31:39]

User currently offlineGlobeEx From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 742 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3571 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 21):
I think they would cut the majority of BMI's short haul destinations to Europe and only leave the domestic flights, and with the flights they cut this would give them slots for Long Haul routes.

Well if they would cut the majority of their short haul ops that would be that many long haul flights, they couldn't fill .... but they sure would cut quite a number of the flights to FRA, MUC and ZRH, if not most of them.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 21):
One thing I can tell you is, the day Bishop sells his 51% stake in BMI, there will be a very bitter and long drawn out bidding war! It will be of interest to see how the chairman of BMI sways - if he will put the interests of the airline first or sell to the highest bidder to line his pocket...

Can Bishop do that? To what extend is he bound to LH when selling his stocks? Even if he could, LH probably would only have to be afraid of AF/KL since BA wouldn't even try to start bidding for BD as they know, there wouldn't be the slimmest chance of success, as there wouldn't be any competitor left.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 21):
For many years I think BMI has lacked focus and if LH took them over this would be the kick start they need.

Agree. Same seemed the case with LX. Okay, they did have an excellent restructuring program before LH took over, which helped a lot. LH said themselves that the restructuring, that took place before LH took over helped alot in saving costs, which is also reflected in the profitability of LX, even when comparing LX results to LH's.
Beside that BD could definately profit from alot of synergies, when merging with LH. Their fleets fit perfectly as well.

GlobeEx

[Edited 2007-08-26 18:32:08]


As you may presently yourself be fully made aware of, my grammar sucks.
User currently offlineShuggie From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2007, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3516 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 21):
One thing I can tell you is, the day Bishop sells his 51% stake in BMI, there will be a very bitter and long drawn out bidding war! It will be of interest to see how the chairman of BMI sways - if he will put the interests of the airline first or sell to the highest bidder to line his pocket...

I think you have hit the core of the problem here, Sir Michael Bishop continually insists that BD is not for sale and as he owns 50% +1 share he knows what he is talking about! The other shares can be bought or sold at will but they will never give their owners control of the airline and Bishop is not showing any signs of allowing that to change.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3508 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 21):
Under European Open-Skies agreements LH could go and base aircrafts in both countries and starts flights up from Croatia and Slovenia. If they undercut both airlines, JP and OU would be shut down in a year!

They wouldn't need to - JP/OU are fully integrated in Star + Miles and More, they have all the benefits of owning JP and OU without the administrative hassle. Seems to be the trend with all LH's "little friends" - OU, LO, JU, etc etc - they get assimilated without a shot being fired or a cent spent.


25 Beaucaire : The situation with SMB seems pretty unclean and uncertain- so to me there is no way LH can get any form of control over BMI. SMB might outsmart himsel
26 Humberside : Would an LH owned bmi keep all of those traffic rights as it could be arugued a German owned bmi is not British?
27 GlobeEx : Well, I guess, LH would find a way. Eventually by founding a British holding company like they did with LX. GlobeEx
28 Qazar : Several strategies can be adopted when LH takes over BD. Sure, they can cut several of the BD's redundant routes with respect to LH & LX and use these
29 Post contains images Zillox : Is Brussel Airlines no option? They are a fine target, if you ask me
30 GlobeEx : I would guess already the geographical location (close to frankfurt) makes it a no-go for Lufthansa. I mean, its not just like a 100km but still to c
31 Tiago701 : LHR receives an average of 1150 flights a day, so 80 (LH+LX) corresponds to around 7% + 14% (BD) = 21% of LHR's slots, so that's about right! For the
32 JGPH1A : SAS and Blue 1 use EuroBonus, and Spamair use Spanair Plus.
33 JoFMO : LH has currently 58 movements to LHR and LX has 12.
34 GlobeEx : Okay but still. BD/LH/LX would be a very big number at LHR, looking at the fact that even BA holds quite a small percentage of the slots at LHR, give
35 JoFMO : Just for reason of comparison. LH has 45 daily flights to CDG (90 movements) and LX has 5 (12). Although the amount of regional jets is much higher to
36 ZRH : Actually LX is already more or less integrated to the LH net. The flight plans are coordinated and at most airports their lounges, check-in and other
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