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SAA Troubles Continue, Record Losses Announced  
User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2232 posts, RR: 9
Posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5443 times:

It appears that SAA is still in serious trouble - according to an article below, the airline apparently posted a loss of Rand 883 billion! (which I find unbelievable - that's almost 90 billion Euro! - surely this is a mistake)

The airline posted a loss of R883bn, and the chairperson said: "Painful initiatives will be required to turn the carrier around financially, and hence the board does not expect SAA to produce profits in the coming financial year."

http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/defa...x?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-24_2172311


Kafa, čaj, šraf?
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBosWashSprStar From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5367 times:

I think the 883 number is incorrect. Not even SAA can make a loss of 883bn on an operating income (as stated in the same article) of 20.6bn. Maybe 883 million rand?

User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5276 times:

that sounds outside the realm of possibility to me unless someone was hiding losses.... forever and it just came out.

883 million sounds possible. SAA isn't big enough to lose that kind of money, 115 billion USD......



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2147 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5240 times:

is saa still working with seabury? are they making any progress or just spinning wheels?

User currently offlineCygnusChicago From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5136 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 2):
SAA isn't big enough to lose that kind of money, 115 billion USD......

Yea, the GDP of SA is only ~$590 billion, so that would be about 20% of GDP, so probably millions.

Since SAA is largely government owned, and doesn't mind employing the predatory pricing practices of olde (directly, or through "mango"), it's unlikely we'll see them turn around in the near-term. That said, when it comes to service, few airlines can match them. So, as long as the good people of South Africa are willing to continue subsidizing "their" airline, I'll be taking advantage of it  Smile



If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2232 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4834 times:

It appears that steps are being taken to reduce the losses, as reported today. I really hope that SAA gets out of its mess soon:

Significant savings after the renegotiation of certain contracts have been projected. The contracts include:

* Ground handling contracts with Dakar operation service provider, Senegal Handling Service, and baggage services provider at O.R Tambo, Optima

* The contract between SAA and its telephony service provider, Transtel will result in a substantial saving over the next two years

* Turnaround ground handling rates have been reduced for SAA's operations in Hong Kong

* An agreement has been reached between SAA and the Hong Kong Airports Authority to move from Terminal 1 to 2 for departures

* Renegotiation of the contract with warehouse and logistics service provider, Kintetsu World Express, which is responsible for the distribution of board items.


The process of reviewing contracts is ongoing and SAA is working hard at finding new and innovative ways of reducing costs, while also growing revenue, over the next 18 months, the airline said on Thursday.

SAA said: "Progress has also been made with other restructuring initiatives aimed at restoring SAA to profitability in order to ensure that we continue to deliver value to our consumers as a full service airline.

"General Managers in each unit were tasked with implementing restructuring initiatives in May after the SAA Board approved the business plan, and this is now in full swing.

"The process of grounding the costly 747-400s is well under way, with two of six aircraft having left the fleet. The rest will be grounded in the following months.

"The review of the route network has led to the planned opening of a new route to Libreville, which will begin on 19 September. Our route to Munich, which was launched in July, is doing very well with load factors exceeding 75%.

"Our commitment to reducing the management headcount spend by 30% is on track. The rationalisation of the first and second level management has been completed and we are now in consultation with the third and final level. This should be completed within the next four to six weeks."

Full story: http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/defa...x?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-24_2174381



Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8255 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4649 times:
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Blame it all on the 744 and Coleman Andrews is the motto at SAA. Could it be the people who ordered the A340 are wrong ? Air Canada dumped their A340's for 777 and many others are wishing they had the efficieny of 3 egines not four. SAA needs to stop flying to every Star alliance city 15 hours away, and fly only north to Europe forget the USA and ASia

User currently offlineCitrusCritter From Pitcairn Islands, joined May 2007, 1089 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4628 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 6):
SAA needs to stop flying to every Star alliance city 15 hours away, and fly only north to Europe forget the USA and ASia

They need to fly to O&D markets that will provide a good yield, whether that turns out to HKG, IAD, or something absurd like GUM or KEF. If they make the yields, it doesn't matter where they fly.



TLH
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4492 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 6):
SAA needs to stop flying to every Star alliance city 15 hours away, and fly only north to Europe forget the USA and ASia

So in effect you are suggesting they also dump their lucrative JNB-GRU-JNB route, on top of JFK, IAD and HKG, and concentrate on Europe? Yes, that would be the way to go, dump routes like IAD and JFK where the premium cabins, with ± $8500 r/t J-class paying passengers, almost never leave empty.  Wink From what I have read on this forum, Delta is not doing too shabby on their ATL-JNB-ATL route, so why should SA leave the States to Delta? With regards to HKG - despite O&D passengers, there are also connecting passengers going on to e.g. GRU and other regional and international destinations, many of them in the premium cabin. That is revenue that you do not turn your back on; otherwise carriers like EK swoop in and poach them.


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8255 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4304 times:
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Quoting SA7700 (Reply 8):
So in effect you are suggesting they also dump their lucrative JNB-GRU-JNB route, on top of JFK, IAD and HKG, and concentrate on Europe? Yes, that would be the way to go, dump routes like IAD and JFK where the premium cabins, with ± $8500 r/t J-class paying passengers, almost never leave empty.

I know SAA charges $8000 for BIZ Class to South Africa from the USA but with only so many A340's and the decision to dump the 744 for the important LHR route. SAA can only be storng to so many detinations TODAY, Europe seems the logical place to concentrate on. I would love to see SAA fly ot MIA again, one of the worst decisions made was to leave Miami. The USA is a market for SAA to own since for 20 years no US airline flew there, to Asia Cathay, Singapore, Thai and Malaysia are better. Do you compete where you are strong or get chopped up and compete on price, for the same price I fly Virgin or Cathay.


User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6293 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4268 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 6):
SAA needs to stop flying to every Star alliance city 15 hours away, and fly only north to Europe forget the USA and ASia

I think SAA needs to keep one route to the USA at least, or else there is no way to get from North America to Southern Africa on Star Alliance except through Europe (or South America which isn't too fun, but it's ok). IAD is the perfect spot because of SA)">UA. They should keep JFK because that plane is always full when I have been on it, but ORD is a total waste I think...lots of the places you can get to on SA)">UA from ORD you can get from IAD, except for some small Midwestern cities.

They do need to keep GRU...I've heard they make a ton on that one, and my experience on the flight reflects it.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 9):
Europe seems the logical place to concentrate on

I agree - Europe should be a concentration, but not the only place. They need to fly to more than just Africa and Europe...Even my rinky dinky love Air Namibia flies to Europe and Africa...SA needs to be much bigger than SW or they're missing markets.


User currently offlineThe Coachman From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4215 times:

Quoting SW733 (Reply 10):
They should keep JFK because that plane is always full when I have been on it,

Great reason to keep flying the route...



M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6293 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4194 times:

Quoting The Coachman (Reply 11):
Great reason to keep flying the route...

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I assumed you'd take that with the previous statement by SA7700 that JFK was a money maker.

[Edited 2007-08-31 18:29:03]

User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4104 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 9):
Europe seems the logical place to concentrate on



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 9):
Do you compete where you are strong or get chopped up and compete on price, for the same price I fly Virgin or Cathay.

Why then should they concentrate on Europe? The plug is about to be pulled on CDG - AF is butchering SA with double dailies between CDG and JNB. To and from the UK; SA has direct competition from BA (double dailies to JNB and during the South African summer, also double dailies to CPT), VS (dailies to JNB, plus dailies to CPT during the summer). In addition, don't forget about CE flying between JNB-LGW-JNB.

From continental Europe, South Africa is served by KL, AF, LH, LX, OA and IB. Last but not least; don't forget about the Middle Eastern carriers like EK (double dailies), EY and QR; that BTW have some of the best fares between South Africa and Europe / Australasia. It should be interesting to see what happens to airfares once EK start their services to-and from South Africa with the A380…

Strong route market share = high yields. There is no sense in flying to half a dozen cities in Europe with poor yields – IMO it is unsustainable.


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4059 times:

Could I suggest that most of SAA's losses come from the incredibly competitive domestic market? Maybe SAA should look at ending domestic flights and codesharing with and existing carrier like Nations Air or One TIme or whatever.

User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2232 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3980 times:

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 14):
Maybe SAA should look at ending domestic flights and codesharing with and existing carrier like Nations Air or One TIme or whatever.

Dude, no disrespect to you, but this is the dumbest comment I've read in a while... or whatever!

PS. Its Nationwide Air Big grin



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User currently offlineZuluTime From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3935 times:

The problem is half down to aircraft utilisation. The schedules on South Africa need so many overnight flights that SAA has lots of aircraft sitting on the ground during the day in London, JFK, Frankfurt, Washington, Munich, Hong Kong - just about everywhere they fly to. They probably couldn't move the Heathrow slots so they are stuck with this problem in Heathrow, but pretty much everywhere else ought to be practical to move to a mix of daylight and overnights.

If you look at JFK then their current schedule is JNB 1920 - 0655 JFK 1720 - 1730 JNB. Why not turn the aircraft round ex JFK at 1000 and have it landing in JNB at 1010 the next day? The aircraft could then operate that day's GRU, BOM or PER flights. Follow that example through the whole fleet and I guess they could cut five or six long-haul aircraft (maybe all of the 343s) out of their fleet. That's $100m a year saved already.


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3204 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3893 times:

Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 16):
If you look at JFK then their current schedule is JNB 1920 - 0655 JFK 1720 - 1730 JNB. Why not turn the aircraft round ex JFK at 1000 and have it landing in JNB at 1010 the next day? The aircraft could then operate that day's GRU, BOM or PER flights. Follow that example through the whole fleet and I guess they could cut five or six long-haul aircraft (maybe all of the 343s) out of their fleet. That's $100m a year saved already.

You know that is a very good point there, but there is another probably associated with it. Premium traffic. Qantas flights to Asia from Australia do exactly what you are suggesting here... just on the ground and turn around, and the reason it works is most of the Asian carriers do the same thing. But if you look at similar flights from North to South America, American Airlines has heaps of 777s and 763s sitting on the ground at places like EZE all day... for the exact same reason SA do. The question is, will the premium traffic switch to the competing airline instead in order to gain red-eye flights? For business people it seems to be a preference if they're in a good quality business class... it enables them to work a full day... get on the plane that evening, sleep and wake up at their destination. This trend is also extending to wealthy leisure travelers, due to the fact that in this modern world, most of the people who can afford to pay for business class airfares also tend to be extremely busy people and can't take much time off work.... so the ability to take red-eye flights enables them to squeeze that bit more into their vacation instead of loosing a day traveling to and a day traveling from.

If SAA wants to make more money, they could start buy sending an A346 to Sydney in their own right... and then on alternate days fly one to Melbourne and Brisbane. The prices of Economy tickets between Australia and South Africa on SAA or Qantas is absurd! more then europe or the america for SAA... and usually booked out. It forces many passengers to go via SIN, BKK, KUL and even DXB!!!!! Definately room for some more seats here... I'm hoping that Air New Zealand wake up and start some of the services.


User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6293 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3863 times:

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 17):
more then europe or the america

Is that like "South Africa and The Iraq"?


User currently offlineReggaebird From Jamaica, joined Nov 1999, 1176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3837 times:

Preface: The comments I am about to share are my opinion. I am in no way trying to start the typical type of argument that occurs when one mentions something possibly negative about one aircraft manufacturerer's product.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

What no one has mentioned is the cost of switching to those Airbus aircraft!

SAA decided to buy/lease all of those four-engined Airbus widebodies and replace their very young Boeing 737-800s for two reasons. 1) the culturally engrained (and mistaken) belief that four-engined aircraft are safer than two-engined aircraft for long-haul flights and 2) the fact that after Coleman Andrews left, there was a serious backlash against everyone and everything that had his stamp of approval (the 737-800 deal, the 3-class 747-400, the plan to acquire B777s).

IMHO, SAA is starting to pay the price for their irrational fleet decisions. They may have cutoff their nose to spite their face. For example, SAA needs a good first-class product to attract uber-premium passenger revenue that is being stolen by the likes of Emirates, Singapore and Lufthansa. They are progressively discontinuing that product with the retirement of the "inefficient" 747-400s. As for those 747s, they were some of the earliest birds out there and most of them use Rolls engines, which are notorious for being the least efficient, least powerful, most polluting and most noisy engines for this aircraft. Indeed, Cathay has been warned by some airports that their Rolls-powered 744s may face restrictions for some of those same reasons. With regard to the 737-800s, the fleet that was praised for it's rugged reliability and "rightness" for the varied SAA African network suddenly became "bad performers" when Coleman left. SAA had disposed of the Airbus A320s that they had experimented with in the '90s mostly for performance reasons (poor hot and high ops, reliability issues) and then suddenly, after Coleman left, they became the preferred solution.

Anyway, my suggestion is that SAA ditch all of those long-haul four-holers (Boeings and Airbus') and lease some widebody twins (A330s or 777s). Longer term, they should select 10-14 of the new uber-twins (A350-900 or 787-8) for 2015 delivery. This would give them the ability to serve the long thin routes that they need to cover. For the heavier routes that also require the first class cabins, they could order 6 "bigger brothers" (777-300ER, A350-1000 or 787-10). For shorthaul, they can hang on to the A320s through 2017-18 and then order one of the manufacturerers' narrowbody replacements.

Again, these are my opinions. My statements about SAA's business decisions and practices are compiled from readings about SAA over the years (including in-country reading). I cannot provide a bibliography or footnotes for all of the articles so don't start asking me for proof. Go look stuff up for yourself if you're interested.

Thanks for reading.


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3204 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3815 times:

Quoting SW733 (Reply 18):

Is that like "South Africa and The Iraq"?

You obviously saw Miss South Carolina?


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3204 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3795 times:

Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 19):
for those 747s, they were some of the earliest birds out there and most of them use Rolls engines, which are notorious for being the least efficient, least powerful, most polluting and most noisy engines for this aircraft.

Not entirely true. When the 744 first came out, compared to the early PW and GE engines, the RR engine was the highest thrust, at 58,000lbs where as PW and GE where 2 thousand pounds less. The RR engine was also heavier. It was selected by Qantas because the RR engine was more fuel efficient. It came down to weight restrictions vs fuel restrictions. NZ and CX would have faced similar circumstances, and no doubt so did SAA. So basically it came down to getting more distance out of the fuel (ie - range with full fuel tanks), oh having to restrict your fuel upload due to weight (where the ligher GE and PW engines would help). Since that point, both PW and GE have upgraded their initial version of the engines and upgrade kits were offered to airlines that helped smooth these differences out, and GE even now offer a much higher thrust version of the engine. RR also has supplied trent technology upgrades, but, PW and GE caught up.

I would find it hard to believe that when airlines like Cathay and Qantas were actively upgrading their RR engines, SA didn't bother. Though this is SA after all.

Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 19):

Anyway, my suggestion is that SAA ditch all of those long-haul four-holers (Boeings and Airbus') and lease some widebody twins (A330s or 777s).

And what about the cost of changing types YET AGAIN! the 744 is still the lowest cost per seat mile aircraft in service today... yes thats right, even lower then the 773ER, and thats largely due to a larger capacity, especially if you need to lift cargo. One of the reasons it remains so popular with asian carriers. It is still king at SQ, CX, BA, QF, JL, TG, MH... shall i go on? If you can fill it (and that is they key, you need to fill it, otherwise the 773 and even a346 become better options) you'll make more profit still from the 744, despite the increase in maintenance. The effect of fuel burn due to 4 engines on 12 hr flights is often grossly overstated on this forum. On medium range flights, the A330-300 does so well simply because its a lighter aircraft!!!! Hence NW etc ... its perfect for Trans-Atlantic. That doesn't necessarily make it a great aircraft for 12 hr + flights... weight and cargo restrictions etc... you could make more money with the higher weights uplifted by the 340-300 on these type of flights. It's a big trade off...and nowhere near as simple as 2 engines vs 4 engines. It may very well be 2 aircraft types vs 1 aircraft type that make certain twins, like the 777 attractive, because a 330 certainly will make more profit on a flight like Sydney-Hong kong or MSP-AMS.


User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6293 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3792 times:

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 21):
It is still king at SQ, CX, BA, QF, JL, TG, MH... shall i go on?

Yeah, I do think you can add SA to that list. The 747-400 is king at SA even still...it's their face...people know them as SA of 10 years ago, spitting the huge 747-400 out to North America and Europe. Sure, there are three times as many A340's in the fleet, but a lot of people still see the 747-400 as the face of SA. And that thing can carry an impressive amount of cargo, especially up to Europe where the distance to cover isn't as great as, say, JFK/IAD.

I sure wish they weren't leaving...or at least that SW would take two to replace the A340s!

[Edited 2007-09-01 05:05:18]

User currently offlineReggaebird From Jamaica, joined Nov 1999, 1176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3773 times:

Quoting SW733 (Reply 22):
I sure wish they weren't leaving...or at least that SW would take two to replace the A340s!

SW had a 747-400M and didn't know what to do with it! The need to keep that A340. Now if Kenya Airways or Ethiopian would take those 744s and do something special with them, they could give SAA a run for the money on the intercontinental runs.


User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6293 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3757 times:

Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 23):
SW had a 747-400M and didn't know what to do with it! The need to keep that A340

Yeah I know but...it looked damn good!!!  Smile The A340's are great for SW, they need them indeed.


25 Reggaebird : Yeah, I remeber seeing that Air Namibia 744 at Frankfurt when I would pass through there. I couldn't get enough of that. I even liked the interim MD-
26 EXAAUADL : So you think South African makes money on shorthaul? It seems to me there are too many airlines flying domestically in SA. Perhaps you shoulld tell m
27 Leskova : I doubt that they'd be making a single cent more if they were to drop domestic flights... it might be worth trying to put domestic flights into a sep
28 Bullpitt : Hi all Does any of our South African friends know how the route to Perth is doing. I'm hoping to non Rev from MAD-JNB-PER-ADL next June-July. I really
29 Viscount724 : A 1000 departure from JFK would result in very poor or non-existent connections.
30 Umhlanga : Not at all. Assuming that the JFK-DKR-JNB flying time remains unchanged (~17 hours total flying time), a 10h00 departure from JFK means the flight wo
31 Birdbrainz : I agree. SAA has got to find a way to not let their planes sit at European cities. It seems to me that ZA to Europe is already a blood bath, and EK i
32 Post contains images Zkpilot : The initial RR engines were definantly better than the competing GE, PW holes. Off topic, but the 744 definantly looks sexier with RR engines on it w
33 787KQ : Yes, they do need to find a way to utilize those planes, no matter the conventional wisdom is about keeping the plane on the ground all day waiting f
34 SA7700 : You will always have the problem of loosing connecting passengers at either end of the route, with SA anyway. Personally there is no incentive for me
35 Jfk777 : When SAA operated from the AA terminal at JFK in the 1990's it did for a few years have a late morning departure of the 744 back to J'berg. When they
36 Post contains links and images Stickers : http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/defa...x?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-24_2177765 Interesting add on to the discussion of SAA's woes. Thats a lot of staff to
37 787KQ : I am not surprised that LHR didn't work since SAA didn't have an alliance there to provide connecting traffic. Double daily from FRA their large Star
38 EXAAUADL : If SAA is losing tons on doesmtic flights, they still need a presence, that is why I suggested codesharing with an existing carrier. This also takes
39 SA7700 : SA has had a codeshare agreement with BD since February 1999, providing feed from UK domestic destinations, as well as continental Europe. This canno
40 Viscount724 : I should have clarified that I was only referring to connections at JFK. Obviously connections would not be a problem at JNB. But as a later posting
41 Jfk777 : I wonder if Star was the right alliance fro SAA. Given SAA bigs routes are to English speaking places; India, Australia, Hong Kong, The USA, The UK an
42 SA7700 : Which I am sure the South African Competition Commission would have had something to say about (South Africa - LHR comes to mind). Also take into acc
43 Post contains images Leskova : Germany is actually not usually listed as an "English speaking" place... ... and Hong Kong is also not really completely English speaking either (and
44 SA7700 : Yes they do. SA still have daily services to-and from HKG. Rgds SA7700
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