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IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!  
User currently offlineManu From Canada, joined Dec 2004, 406 posts, RR: 7
Posted (7 years 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5373 times:

As of June 2008, all airlines who are members of IATA will no longer issue paper tickets. I can't wait for this, as right now when I do travel often and am occasionally issued a paper ticket because of some "weirdness" from other airlines, or switching airlines outside of alliances. About 1 in 10 trips I do is paper ticketed, so clearly not the majority. But when I do have it, I always am worried about loosing it or having it destroyed.

Anyone know of reasons we should be concerned about this switch? Shal I keep my last paper tickets from Canada to Spain and India now that the end is in sight? At last, no more "shipping fees" because a ticket was paper!

Original CBC new story reference

[Edited 2007-08-27 23:35:27]

[Edited 2007-08-27 23:35:50]

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBok269 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 2104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5361 times:

You mean June 2008?

This announcement makes sense. No need to waste paper on tickets if it can all be done electronically.



"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
User currently offlineManu From Canada, joined Dec 2004, 406 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5344 times:

Quoting Bok269 (Reply 1):
June 2008

Oops, thanks. Fixed.


User currently offlineCivilav From Mexico, joined Oct 2004, 391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5133 times:

As a side note to the CBC article, what IATA claims that this represents a saving in trees is a complete fallacy.
What airlines have cunningly done is put the full cost of ticketing on either the travel agencies (like mine here in Cancun) or the consumer if purchasing through the web.

In the case of travel agencies, we now have to pay for the paper (3 sheets of letter size per passenger are used, no less, so talk about saving !) and the ink cartridge. Ditto for whoever is buying off the internet. You want your print-out.

Still, we all welcome the news as e-ticketing is so much more efficient (providing the system is up to scratch or your name is spelt correctly otherwise you are in trouble all right !) and easier to deal with when date changes take place. Re-issuing a paper ticket is a real nightmare !

Regards from Cancún !


User currently offlineMitchell Gant From Montserrat, joined Aug 2000, 253 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5124 times:

So what is going to happen to non-rev tickets issued on other carriers? Will the check-in agent look at me like I'm from Mars when I plunk down my good ole Zed fare pass? I seriously doubt airlines will have interline employee NRSA e-ticketing available by next June.

User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5053 times:

Another question: If someone needs to make an off-line reroute, say if the flight they booked is cancelled on a mechanical, are there systems in place to make sure the receiving airline will honor the reservation?

Another thing comes to mind is in developing countries, where getting on the plane can be an adventure in itself, a paper ticket was often times the only proof that you booked on that fligh, or have things changed to the point that this is not a problem?

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5000 times:

Quoting Manu (Thread starter):
As of June 2008, all airlines who are members of IATA will no longer issue paper tickets.

Check out the IATA press release here. You will see that it is only the neutral ticket stock distributed through their Billing and Settlement Plans that will end. Airline paper tickets can continue, forever, but that decision would be up to each airline.

BTW this doesn't (necessarily) affect the US Settlement system which is run by ATA, not IATA, although in the US e-ticketing is in the high 90% range.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11640 posts, RR: 61
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4995 times:

Quoting Civilav (Reply 3):
3 sheets of letter size per passenger are used, no less, so talk about saving !

Why do you need three sheets of letter size paper per passenger?

I'd be willing to guess that in most places -- not sure about Mexico per se, but most places -- a simple email confirmation sent directly to the customer -- whether from the ticketing airline directly or from a TA -- would be perfectly sufficient. Most people are already used to email-based confirmations, not to mention that this type of system would allow the airlines/travel agents to shift the cost of printing itineraries (if necessary) onto the customer! The customer would then be free to decide whether they would like to pay for the paper/ink to print their itinerary or not, and not be forced to shoulder that cost as they are now.


User currently offlineSNBru From Belgium, joined Feb 2005, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4834 times:

I was amazed by the fact that my Air France ticket could only be issued as a paper ticket (and I had to pay an extra handling fee). The reason: one segment departs from Vietnam. At the moment this country is not able to handle e tickets for AF. Would this all be gone by next year?

Great, no reason to worry about stolen or lost tickets on a yourney AND possiblity to check in online.
With my paper ticket from AF I can't check in electronically!


User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4818 times:
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Sorry but I don't believe this announcement... I have many doubts.

How is supposed to be 100% of electronic tickets when there are in many countries and regions of the world (predominantly Africa and ex-URSS republics) that doesn't know what is the paper ticket?

Examples: Sierra National Airlines, Arik air, Bellview Airlines, Tatarstan Airlines, UTair,...

(...)

What's your opinion about it?

Gerard



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineRJNUT From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4803 times:

i think they want to set a date and that puts pressure on the airlines , but adjustments can be made as time draws nearer.. I remember Alaska AIrlines a while back had this great anouncement about %100 per cent ticket less! and then quitely had to reinstate some temporary paper ticket arrangements to protect some very important interline agreements! But I have noticed a rather accelerated conversion of airlines to E ticket and I am talking about some pretty small, third world countries!

User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4750 times:

Gee, it sounds like hogwash by the IATA to me. I just bought tickets on LH that had to be issued as paper. The reason beiing that LH's e-ticketing computers (and all the other carriers' computers to my knowlege) cannot handle tickets with more than 16 segments.

Typically these are RTW tickets, and so involve alot of different carriers as well.

If the group of airlines on my latest RTW ticket (UA, LH, BD, SQ, TG, and NH) can't handle it in e-ticket format, imagine when some of the Chinese and other carriers with less advanced computer systems join the alliances.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4675 times:

Quoting SNBru (Reply 8):
At the moment this country is not able to handle e tickets for AF.

Not the country, just the DCS system at the airport, probably. Or possibly the local IATA BSP (if there is one).

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 9):
Sorry but I don't believe this announcement... I have many doubts.



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 11):
Gee, it sounds like hogwash by the IATA to me.

It isn't - but there is a qualification. Paper tickets issued by travel agents will be disappearing - paper tickets will no longer be supported by the IATA BSP's or ARC clearing house. Airline tickets don't go through BSP's, and so airlines can continue to issue paper tickets on their own stock. For interline though, I think these will all have to be electronic. And IATA are deadly serious about this deadline (well they were, the deadline was supposed to be 01Jan08, but they slipped it 6 months as so many airlines weren't ready.


User currently offlineManu From Canada, joined Dec 2004, 406 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4663 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 11):
I just bought tickets on LH that had to be issued as paper.

The last few times I've had to get a paper ticket was because of a leg on LH. What's with that? Why do certain legs force "paper tickets" Anyone have some insight?

Quoting Civilav (Reply 3):
we now have to pay for the paper (3 sheets of letter size per passenger are used, no less, so talk about saving !) and the ink cartridge

Each time I have had a paper ticket issued, I've had multiple sheets of itinerary issued to me accompanying it. But on the environmental note, at least the paper is recyclable--in my experience most carbon copies are not.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
a simple email confirmation sent directly to the customer

Much better for me and you, but many in the world have a different approach to technology Like this guy in Africa with his portable radio who has a completely different approach than an American / Canadian / European. Technology isn't necessary homogeneous. So a concern with eticketing... the doubts people have expressed here could hold true.

Interesting that there was already a thread in 2004 that confirms this has been a long standing project by IATA.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4652 times:

Quoting Manu (Reply 13):
The last few times I've had to get a paper ticket was because of a leg on LH. What's with that? Why do certain legs force "paper tickets" Anyone have some insight?

Usually it is down to the ground handling provider at the airport. The system they use for check-in has to be connected to the electronic ticket hosting server of the airline, and in some cases this link has not been put in place yet. This is most often the case with codeshare partnerships, but can also be because of delays on the airport system side. Airlines are working flat out to get all their routes 100% e-ticket eligible, but it is a huge logistical effort involving lots of third parties, so it can be complicated.

Another reason for a flight not to be e-ticket eligible is if the travel agency market at one or other end of the flight is not able to issue electronic tickets - this could be the case if there is no IATA Bank Settlement Plan in place in that country (for paper tickets, this could be got around, but it is mandatory for e-tickets). Some countries such as Madagascar have had problems getting IATA to set up a BSP in their country so that the local carrier can migrate to electronic tickets.


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4649 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 12):
It isn't - but there is a qualification. Paper tickets issued by travel agents will be disappearing - paper tickets will no longer be supported by the IATA BSP's or ARC clearing house. Airline tickets don't go through BSP's, and so airlines can continue to issue paper tickets on their own stock. For interline though, I think these will all have to be electronic.

I still don't understand how they are proposing to handle RTW tickets that exceed 16 legs and by their very nature have alot of interlining segments. It is easily possible that the carrier issuing the RTW ticket might only have a single segment flown on it's own metal, with an additional 20 or more segments interlining.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4639 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 15):
I still don't understand how they are proposing to handle RTW tickets that exceed 16 legs and by their very nature have alot of interlining segments. It is easily possible that the carrier issuing the RTW ticket might only have a single segment flown on it's own metal, with an additional 20 or more segments interlining.

The answer is, currently e-tickets can't handle more than 16 segs. The interline isn't a problem as long as the interline agreements exist, but it seems that the 16 segment upper limit (4 conjunction tickets with up to 4 coupons each) on an e-ticket is hard and fast. I'd have to ask an expert though.


User currently offlineFrontierflyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 216 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4566 times:

Quoting Civilav (Reply 3):
In the case of travel agencies, we now have to pay for the paper (3 sheets of letter size per passenger are used, no less, so talk about saving !) and the ink cartridge. Ditto for whoever is buying off the internet. You want your print-out.

Get a Laser Printer. Faster, Cost effective in the long term.


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4531 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 16):
The answer is, currently e-tickets can't handle more than 16 segs. The interline isn't a problem as long as the interline agreements exist, but it seems that the 16 segment upper limit (4 conjunction tickets with up to 4 coupons each) on an e-ticket is hard and fast. I'd have to ask an expert though.

That is exactly my point. Do they have a plan to make tickets in excess of 16 legs e-ticket compatable? Otherwise they will still need interline paper ticketing, unless they plan to eliminate RTW tickets.


User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4472 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 11):
imagine when some of the Chinese and other carriers with less advanced computer systems join the alliances.

IIRC China has already achieved 100% ET for domestic. Not a lot of interline there, but they were the first.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4443 times:

Quoting ANother (Reply 19):
IIRC China has already achieved 100% ET for domestic. Not a lot of interline there, but they were the first.

That's easy, all Chinese carriers use the same res system and DCS. It's much easier when there's only one system involved.


User currently offlineXero9 From Canada, joined Feb 2007, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4428 times:

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm a little confused as to what they're actually eliminating.. Any time I've booked a flight it's online directly through the airline. When I arrive at the airport, I swipe my credit card through a machine that gives me a ticket, and I take it to the counter where I get a boarding pass.. Are they getting rid of either of these, both, or neither?

Again, sorry for my ignorance  Smile


User currently offlineRJNUT From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4417 times:

and many interline tickets will be eliminated until the number of E ticket interline agreements are increased..the number of paper ticket agreements are in the thousands!

there will be a few bumps during the final transition, but all should be well eventually


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4293 times:

Quoting Xero9 (Reply 21):
Any time I've booked a flight it's online directly through the airline. When I arrive at the airport, I swipe my credit card through a machine that gives me a ticket, and I take it to the counter where I get a boarding pass..

Looking at your profile I see you are quite young, and it is therefore possible that you've never actually travelled with a paper ticket.  Smile

What is being eliminated are the paper tickets that airlines and travel agents used to issue in fulfillment of an airline reservation. Electronic tickets are essentially exactly the same information as is printed on a paper ticket, just in electronic form. The airlines may call it "ticketless" travel but it isn't, they still need the ticket as proof that you have paid for your trip, and there are very complex electronic controls in place to make sure you can only use an electronic ticket once. When you fly, the check-in system flags your electronic ticket coupon as "checked-in" and then "flown", and once flown it is sent back to the issuing airline to be matched up against the original sale, and logged as earned revenue, and if any part of the journey was with a carrier other than the issuing carrier, more complex transactions occur for the transporting carrier to claim their part of the earned revenue from the issuing carrier.

All the complexity is necessary to allow airlines to continue with interline ticketing, which greatly facilitates travel. Without them, it would be seperate tickets (and therefore seperate fares) for each airline on your journey. Low cost carriers for the most part really are ticketless, i.e. they simply record that you have paid for your flight, and there's an end to it. Saves a lot of accounting hassles, but limits the options for the passenger to interline or change their plans and fly on someone else.


User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4278 times:

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 5):
Another question: If someone needs to make an off-line reroute, say if the flight they booked is cancelled on a mechanical, are there systems in place to make sure the receiving airline will honor the reservation?

This is already in place with many airlines. Electronic tickets are rebooked, rerouted, and revalidated on other carriers due to irregular ops every day.

Currently, in the United States, I believe all the legacy carriers (not sure about CO off the top of my head), plus YX and F9 have interline e-ticket agreements and also interline electronic FIM (Flight Interruption Manifest) agreements.



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
25 AirframeAS : Thats how thick 1 paper ticket is. They're pretty thick.
26 Leskova : I'll believe this deadline when it passes and no paper tickets get issued afterwards. LH has actually just introduced a new reason for more paper tick
27 Analog : You can't be serious. Is this restriction real and, if so, will it change? What genius designed this system? Almost all tickets have far fewer than 1
28 Manu : That's proof that I maybe should keep my paper ticket. Heck, I've even had a paper ticket that was hand written from SkyKing in the Caribbean (Turks
29 ANother : Please read some of the previous posts. This notification is in respect of tickets issued by travel agents and settled through an IATA BSP. Paper tic
30 JGPH1A : DB is going e-ticket I think, pretty soon. Really ? Who are they ? No such thing. Industry standard for EMD's haven't been fully defined yet. e-MCO i
31 ANother : I'm not certain but I saw something on IATA's web-site that identified 31 airlines (in the BSPs) world-wide who don't intend to migrate to e-Ticketin
32 JGPH1A : Fingers crossed, eh ? I know 1A plan to implement EMD next year, but still waiting for final IATA sign-off on the standards. They'll suffer hideously
33 ANother : Not certain, but they will be out of the BSPs I guess. They will have to put their paper tickets into their agents and they will have to submit indiv
34 Leskova : No need for me to read through the posts - I'm fully aware of who this applies to... and, still, I'll believe the deadline is serious this time, when
35 Nubes : Funny to realise we're the last generation who knows what a paper ticket is.. Anyone knows whether this applies to FIMs and MCOs/MPDs as well? Or are
36 CoolGuy : How did paper tickets work if you wanted to get a ticket a day before the flight? What if the tickets were lost in the mail?
37 Mandala499 : That is why I keep my old international paper tickets... a relic of our aviation history... LOL (now where's my old Sabena, Pan Am, TWA and Viva Air
38 RobertS975 : There is no such thing as a paperless ticket. My electronic tickets have more paper than I used to have when there were ticket coupons. There is the a
39 Post contains images AirScoot : This is what I get for taking a few days off.. ARC (not ATA as mentioned above) is supposed to be working on this whole thing in the US as well. As a
40 NorthstarBoy : most likely, unless you live in the same city as the agency and thus can walk in and actually pickup the ticket, it has to be done as a Prepaid where
41 CoolGuy : I'm still amazed how anything was accomplished before e-tickets and even online check-in. During the past year, the closest to a flight that I've chec
42 JGPH1A : How can you ? How else do you return the unused value of a partially used or exchanged ticket ? Bring on EMD's, but until the standards are ironed ou
43 Viscount724 : But it's cheaper paper and more environmentally-friendly than the multiple carbon-backed coupons of a paper ticket with their various security featur
44 Post contains images Asturias : I try, if I possibly can, to buy tickets straight from the airline I will fly with. Additionally, I also try if I possibly can, to get normal IATA pap
45 Ordfrbdl : Any chance the SNCF (French Railways) will also accept e-tickets? Whenever you book a TGV as an Air France flight as part of a multi-segment trip, th
46 Manu : Funny, I think the exact opposite. I guess I am too trusting of technology? What if there was a power failure. If the flight operations could do ever
47 Mandala499 : Over here, you loose your paper ticket you are screwed big time! Agents don't like handling "lost ticket claims"... especially those "use it or loose
48 Post contains images AirScoot : I said *I* avoid them. There are some carriers that I've paid the fee at the airport to get the coupons converted to paper only because of past bad e
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