Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled  
User currently offlineImiakhtar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 15701 times:

Just read it on the BBC website, KU's order for the A320 and B787 through leasing firm ALAFCO has fallen through.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6966403.stm

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 15688 times:

Nothing to do with the development issues surrounding the 787 at the moment. Seems to be a disagreement over financing.

User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 15528 times:

This will go through eventually - they will do the paperwork properly and resign it no worries.


What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineHiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 866 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 15528 times:

Who said anything about development issues???

User currently offlineNaritaflyer From Japan, joined Apr 2006, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 15033 times:

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 3):
Who said anything about development issues???

I think he was being pre-emptive before someone mentions that as an excuse.


User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2085 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 14968 times:

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 3):
Who said anything about development issues???

Among others, take look into this discussion:

Boeing Faces Hurdles, Opportunities On The 787 (by NYC777 Aug 21 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Axel

[Edited 2007-08-28 14:58:24]


Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineTKV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 14591 times:

I am sorry, but you are incurring in wishful thinking. Note also that 6 A320 are affected !

The underlying reason is a dispute between Kuwaiti political personalities inside Government, Parliament as well as both in the state owned Airline and Alafco. See between other:

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...B3E-4401-4F8F-A7DD-0984322BFD51%7D
where it is written:

Quote:
Relations between Kuwait's 50-member National Assembly and the state-run airline have been strained since the airline announced its plan in June to buy the aircraft from Alafco.

The alleged reason for buying these aircraft from Alafco instead the manufacturers was, as written in
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUKL284841320070828?rpc=44

Quote:
Kuwait Airways officials told Reuters in June the order would be worth around $3 billion and that the airline placed the order with Alafco rather then manufacturers because it wanted to get them earlier.

Unconfirmed but rather credible rumors add that the main problem was that the Alafco prices agreed by KA were far higher than the named by the manufacturers during past negotiations !!

IMHO this problems will be solved but it will take time. In the meantime, Alafco could yield their early delivery slot to support Boeing B787 deals, between other eventually with BA..

TKV


User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2085 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 14377 times:

Quoting TKV (Reply 6):
I am sorry, but you are incurring in wishful thinking. Note also that 6 A320 are affected !

I am sorry, but I just only answered his question.

I know that the KUs leasing or it's cancellation has indeed nothing to do with this rumours. Are you the offically new Halibut/Aminobwana? What about your wishful thinkings?  Yeah sure

Axel  banghead 

[Edited 2007-08-28 16:47:38]


Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineTKV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 14292 times:

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 7):
What about your wishful thinkings?

As it seemed you related the B787 first flight issue with the KU cancellation, with would be wishful thinking, I posted the facts. Could you provide 2 or 3 examples of my wishful (i.e. unsupported) thinking ??

By the way, I resent your personal insinuations. .

TKV


User currently offlineElvis777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 14135 times:

In the context of this thread I dont understand your comment OldEuro

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 7):
What about your wishful thinkings? Yeah sure

....

Waht do you mean?

Elvis777



Leper,Unevolved, Misplaced and Unrepentant SportsFanatic and a ZOMBIE as well
User currently offlinePHLwok From United States of America, joined May 2007, 501 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 14100 times:

Did this order actually cancel with Airbus and Boeing, or does ALAFCO just have 19 more aircraft to lease out now? Or, I guess, back to KU assuming that they renegotiate?

User currently offlineEurostarVA From Bahrain, joined May 2002, 1296 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13651 times:

The deal appears to be cancelled following Kuwaiti parliament action. This is consistent with the traditional parliamentary restrictions which have put the airline under constant scrutiny since the mid 1990s.

If you ask me, it was a wise move by the Kuwaiti Parliament. As Kuwait is not experiencing an oil / gas windfall as some neighoring countries are, it might be incapable to pump yet more money into its loss-making national airline.

I am yet to hear of any repositioning strategies for Kuwait Airways, to help it turn a profit and to become relevant on the regional scale. Kuwait Airways appears to be stuck in the mid 1990s.

Cheers



If there is a will, there is a way
User currently offlineFAEDC3 From Ecuador, joined Jun 2007, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12600 times:

I´m sure there will be more than enough companies interested in getting those slots (both A320 and B787). ALAFCO should have no problem allocating them with other customers.

User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12470 times:

If people would actually READ these articles, they would know it's a Kuwaiti governmental/financing issue. It has nothing to do with the 787 or Boeing OR Airbus. Why do people like Oldeuropean have to make out every freaking story to be an A versus B thread? Someone kill this one before it get's any nastier.

User currently offlineBok269 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 2105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12432 times:

Does this mean that ALAFCO will just redistribute the planes to other carriers or they will cancel the order with Boeing?


"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
User currently offlineDomokun From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12178 times:

Quoting Bok269 (Reply 14):
Does this mean that ALAFCO will just redistribute the planes to other carriers or they will cancel the order with Boeing?

I would suspect those planes are worth more to them than just canceling the order...


User currently offlineFAEDC3 From Ecuador, joined Jun 2007, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11975 times:

Quoting Bok269 (Reply 14):
Does this mean that ALAFCO will just redistribute the planes to other carriers or they will cancel the order with Boeing?

Why would they cancel? those a/c are hot!! those slots should be a great commodity, isn´t that the reason KU went with ALAFCO? to get an early delivery?


User currently offlineTKV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11902 times:

Quoting PHLwok (Reply 10):
Did this order actually cancel with Airbus and Boeing, or does ALAFCO just have 19 more aircraft to lease out now? Or, I guess, back to KU assuming that they renegotiate?



Quoting FAEDC3 (Reply 12):
´m sure there will be more than enough companies interested in getting those slots (both A320 and B787). ALAFCO should have no problem allocating them with other customers



Quoting Bok269 (Reply 14):
Does this mean that ALAFCO will just redistribute the planes to other carriers or they will cancel the order with Boeing?

ALAFCO would be unwise cancel the order to the manufacturers, as to have ensured early slots is a very valuable asset. Boeing, at the present moment, would probably be happy if they do so, as have these slots available would help them to ensure larger contacts. But of course, Boeing and Alafco could collaborate, as done with ILFC with the LAN Agreement.
That is, if the KU order is not reinstated, through Alafco or directly to the manufacturers.

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 11):
If you ask me, it was a wise move by the Kuwaiti Parliament. As Kuwait is not experiencing an oil / gas windfall as some neighbouring countries are, it might be incapable to pump yet more money into its loss-making national airline

I would agree with you in a normal case. But knowing how things are there, probably the reason was more an interest conflict between Alafco and the Government.. But I am sure the government wants a deal !! Kuwait is profitting from the oil boom as well as the neighbors, but I assume you mean that the money surplus is smaller, as they have a lot more inhabitants.

TKV


User currently offlineBok269 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 2105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11902 times:

Quoting Domokun (Reply 16):

I would suspect those planes are worth more to them than just canceling the order...

That's what I thought/



"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11902 times:

ALAFCO wont cancel the order at all. They will have no problems placing these planes.

User currently offlineGlideslope From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1611 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10641 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 19):
ALAFCO wont cancel the order at all. They will have no problems placing these planes.

Probably already have. I don't see ALAFCO waisting time over terms with Kuwait with 320's and 787's.  checkmark 



To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9579 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 1):
development issues surrounding the 787 at the moment

A bit of an exaggeration.




-NWA742


User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5083 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9464 times:

The airline can't possibly hope to stayed competetive with the likes of Emirates without the new planes!


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8817 times:

Maybe they'll re-new the contract and add in some Super Hornets to replace their legacy Hornets to boot!?

User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6421 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8248 times:

Quoting TKV (Reply 6):
Unconfirmed but rather credible rumors add that the main problem was that the Alafco prices agreed by KA were far higher than the named by the manufacturers during past negotiations !!

Very likely that's correct. That's normal. First the politicians see a price on a bare plane. Then a contract is negotiated including training, spareparts stock, MX tools, ground computer shop for flight logs and all those extras which are needed to fly the planes. And price has of course gone north.

The problem has probably already been solved. A new contract with existing slots on bare planes only. Then next year they will sign a new contract on the extras only.

In the meantime some stupid politicians managed to make their mark in the press. Game over.

That trick is used by even the largest corporations in the world when there is a procurement dispute. You manipulate a primary contract to fit the "political" circumstances and postpone the unavoidable consequences to another fiscal year after having circled the money around on some irrelevant accounts. And everybody save their faces.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
25 Azhobo : Gee if this is truly a cancellation it will be interesting to see who puts it on the books first.
26 Post contains images 7cubed : Nothing new here. This guy's confrontational...Why bring Halibut & Aminobwana into this? What Boeing needs to do is get these 12 - 787 slots on ebay.
27 TKV : From Boeing's point of view there is no cancellation, as long as Alafco does noy decide to do such, which, as several members noted, is very improbab
28 Zillox : What do you mean with no oil/gas windfall. Kuwait is also benefiting from the high oil prices, not?
29 Glom : May some privatising is in order? Did wonders for BA among others.
30 Post contains links TKV : Sooner as expected, and seeming to confirm what I wrote in my former posts, between other reply 17 in the sense that the root of the problem was the u
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Kuwait Airways New B787 Customer? posted Wed Jun 27 2007 14:39:26 by Flying-Tiger
Rossiya To Order B767. A320 And Tu 204 posted Thu Jun 21 2007 19:37:35 by Flying-Tiger
US Airways, The A320 And LGA posted Thu Apr 22 2004 18:21:23 by Cancidas
3 Class A320 On Kuwait Airways? posted Thu Mar 4 2004 19:25:31 by MaverickM11
Would Frontier Order The A320 And A321? posted Sun Feb 29 2004 02:55:00 by Samurai 777
Did Kuwait Airways Acquire A New Medical A320? posted Sat Feb 28 2004 17:17:11 by Captain777
China Southern To Order 15 A320 And 6 A319 posted Tue Jan 27 2004 15:30:55 by Teahan
Gulf Air And Kuwait Airways To Tieup In Jet Sales posted Mon Feb 11 2002 17:12:38 by GF-A330
Aeroflot To Purchase A350's And B787's posted Tue Aug 21 2007 00:07:05 by Brilondon
AR Flight "postponed" And Not "cancelled"?!? posted Wed Aug 8 2007 17:44:52 by USADreamliner