TKV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 13290 times:
I am sorry, but you are incurring in wishful thinking. Note also that 6 A320 are affected !
The underlying reason is a dispute between Kuwaiti political personalities inside Government, Parliament as well as both in the state owned Airline and Alafco. See between other:
Quote: Relations between Kuwait's 50-member National Assembly and the state-run airline have been strained since the airline announced its plan in June to buy the aircraft from Alafco.
Quote: Kuwait Airways officials told Reuters in June the order would be worth around $3 billion and that the airline placed the order with Alafco rather then manufacturers because it wanted to get them earlier.
Unconfirmed but rather credible rumors add that the main problem was that the Alafco prices agreed by KA were far higher than the named by the manufacturers during past negotiations !!
IMHO this problems will be solved but it will take time. In the meantime, Alafco could yield their early delivery slot to support Boeing B787 deals, between other eventually with BA..
Oldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 1901 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 13076 times:
Quoting TKV (Reply 6): I am sorry, but you are incurring in wishful thinking. Note also that 6 A320 are affected !
I am sorry, but I just only answered his question.
I know that the KUs leasing or it's cancellation has indeed nothing to do with this rumours. Are you the offically new Halibut/Aminobwana? What about your wishful thinkings?
As it seemed you related the B787 first flight issue with the KU cancellation, with would be wishful thinking, I posted the facts. Could you provide 2 or 3 examples of my wishful (i.e. unsupported) thinking ??
By the way, I resent your personal insinuations. .
Elvis777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 360 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12834 times:
In the context of this thread I dont understand your comment OldEuro
Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 7): What about your wishful thinkings? Yeah sure
....
Waht do you mean?
Elvis777
Leper,Unevolved, Misplaced and Unrepentant SportsFanatic and a ZOMBIE as well
PHLwok From United States of America, joined May 2007, 375 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12799 times:
Did this order actually cancel with Airbus and Boeing, or does ALAFCO just have 19 more aircraft to lease out now? Or, I guess, back to KU assuming that they renegotiate?
EurostarVA From Bahrain, joined May 2002, 1296 posts, RR: 8 Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12350 times:
The deal appears to be cancelled following Kuwaiti parliament action. This is consistent with the traditional parliamentary restrictions which have put the airline under constant scrutiny since the mid 1990s.
If you ask me, it was a wise move by the Kuwaiti Parliament. As Kuwait is not experiencing an oil / gas windfall as some neighoring countries are, it might be incapable to pump yet more money into its loss-making national airline.
I am yet to hear of any repositioning strategies for Kuwait Airways, to help it turn a profit and to become relevant on the regional scale. Kuwait Airways appears to be stuck in the mid 1990s.
FAEDC3 From Ecuador, joined Jun 2007, 145 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 11299 times:
I´m sure there will be more than enough companies interested in getting those slots (both A320 and B787). ALAFCO should have no problem allocating them with other customers.
SkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 11169 times:
If people would actually READ these articles, they would know it's a Kuwaiti governmental/financing issue. It has nothing to do with the 787 or Boeing OR Airbus. Why do people like Oldeuropean have to make out every freaking story to be an A versus B thread? Someone kill this one before it get's any nastier.
Bok269 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 2105 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 11131 times:
Does this mean that ALAFCO will just redistribute the planes to other carriers or they will cancel the order with Boeing?
Domokun From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 202 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10877 times:
Quoting Bok269 (Reply 14): Does this mean that ALAFCO will just redistribute the planes to other carriers or they will cancel the order with Boeing?
I would suspect those planes are worth more to them than just canceling the order...
FAEDC3 From Ecuador, joined Jun 2007, 145 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10674 times:
Quoting Bok269 (Reply 14): Does this mean that ALAFCO will just redistribute the planes to other carriers or they will cancel the order with Boeing?
Why would they cancel? those a/c are hot!! those slots should be a great commodity, isn´t that the reason KU went with ALAFCO? to get an early delivery?
TKV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10601 times:
Quoting PHLwok (Reply 10): Did this order actually cancel with Airbus and Boeing, or does ALAFCO just have 19 more aircraft to lease out now? Or, I guess, back to KU assuming that they renegotiate?
Quoting FAEDC3 (Reply 12): ´m sure there will be more than enough companies interested in getting those slots (both A320 and B787). ALAFCO should have no problem allocating them with other customers
Quoting Bok269 (Reply 14): Does this mean that ALAFCO will just redistribute the planes to other carriers or they will cancel the order with Boeing?
ALAFCO would be unwise cancel the order to the manufacturers, as to have ensured early slots is a very valuable asset. Boeing, at the present moment, would probably be happy if they do so, as have these slots available would help them to ensure larger contacts. But of course, Boeing and Alafco could collaborate, as done with ILFC with the LAN Agreement.
That is, if the KU order is not reinstated, through Alafco or directly to the manufacturers.
Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 11): If you ask me, it was a wise move by the Kuwaiti Parliament. As Kuwait is not experiencing an oil / gas windfall as some neighbouring countries are, it might be incapable to pump yet more money into its loss-making national airline
I would agree with you in a normal case. But knowing how things are there, probably the reason was more an interest conflict between Alafco and the Government.. But I am sure the government wants a deal !! Kuwait is profitting from the oil boom as well as the neighbors, but I assume you mean that the money surplus is smaller, as they have a lot more inhabitants.
Bok269 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 2105 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10601 times:
Quoting Domokun (Reply 16):
I would suspect those planes are worth more to them than just canceling the order...
Glideslope From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1542 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 9340 times:
Quoting EI321 (Reply 19): ALAFCO wont cancel the order at all. They will have no problems placing these planes.
Probably already have. I don't see ALAFCO waisting time over terms with Kuwait with 320's and 787's.
"All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved"
AirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2529 posts, RR: 6 Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7516 times:
Maybe they'll re-new the contract and add in some Super Hornets to replace their legacy Hornets to boot!?
Prebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6019 posts, RR: 55 Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 6947 times:
Quoting TKV (Reply 6): Unconfirmed but rather credible rumors add that the main problem was that the Alafco prices agreed by KA were far higher than the named by the manufacturers during past negotiations !!
Very likely that's correct. That's normal. First the politicians see a price on a bare plane. Then a contract is negotiated including training, spareparts stock, MX tools, ground computer shop for flight logs and all those extras which are needed to fly the planes. And price has of course gone north.
The problem has probably already been solved. A new contract with existing slots on bare planes only. Then next year they will sign a new contract on the extras only.
In the meantime some stupid politicians managed to make their mark in the press. Game over.
That trick is used by even the largest corporations in the world when there is a procurement dispute. You manipulate a primary contract to fit the "political" circumstances and postpone the unavoidable consequences to another fiscal year after having circled the money around on some irrelevant accounts. And everybody save their faces.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
25 Azhobo: Gee if this is truly a cancellation it will be interesting to see who puts it on the books first.
26 7cubed: Nothing new here. This guy's confrontational...Why bring Halibut & Aminobwana into this? What Boeing needs to do is get these 12 - 787 slots on ebay.
27 TKV: From Boeing's point of view there is no cancellation, as long as Alafco does noy decide to do such, which, as several members noted, is very improbab
28 Zillox: What do you mean with no oil/gas windfall. Kuwait is also benefiting from the high oil prices, not?
29 Glom: May some privatising is in order? Did wonders for BA among others.
30 TKV: Sooner as expected, and seeming to confirm what I wrote in my former posts, between other reply 17 in the sense that the root of the problem was the u
Sponsor Message: 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, 
From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, 
From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 788 posts, 
From Japan, joined Apr 2006, 545 posts, 
From Germany, joined May 2005, 1901 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 360 posts, 
From Bahrain, joined May 2002, 1296 posts, 
From Ecuador, joined Jun 2007, 145 posts, 
From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6019 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
