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Why Are Things To Bad At Northwest Airlines?  
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8654 times:



79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8620 times:

Interesting vid. I can't wait to read the responses from those on A.net who have a fetish for NWA's management.


Hey Swifty
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8570 times:

I applied for a job with NWA at the end of this July in PHX. Never got a thank you letter, never heard back from them. Good Riddance! NWA is really showing its B.S. after all. I'm not very thrilled on how the NWA recruiter treated me.

The recruiter was really rude to the applicants. The applicants were filling out their applications (Fill-in-the-bubble type) while the recruiter was in the same room, yelling into her cell phone in an angry tone. She really turned me off and I just went with the flow. Some people just got up and left, looking terrifed by the interviewer. So I went ahead and interviewed with her and she was nice to me for the most part, no problems at all. She did say she would get back to me in 10 days after the date of the interview. I was thinking in the back of my mind "I bet you tell everybody the same thing!" and I still have not heard back from NWA.

Very rude people, I tell ya! If NWA wants to have a good image, things have got to change starting with the folks up on top, including the HR folks as well!



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinePaladin87 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 8520 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 2):
The recruiter was really rude to the applicants

Were you going for a Flight Attendants job?  laughing 


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 8459 times:

Quoting Paladin87 (Reply 3):

I can't be a FA. Im uhhh deaf.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineLHboyatDTW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 8417 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 2):
The recruiter was really rude to the applicants.

It was one of the Witches of Gatwick  duck 

though interesting video. A family friend of mine works for CO and it's interesting hearing things like this from his perspective.


User currently offlineGo3Team From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3267 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8345 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 4):
I can't be a FA. Im uhhh deaf.

Ramp?, and if so, do you still have to wear ear protection?



Yay Pudding!
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8311 times:

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 6):
Ramp?, and if so, do you still have to wear ear protection?

I do. It doesn't matter if one is deaf or not, you still have to wear it. I wear the regular ear inserts plus the muffs. And yes, ramp....temporary and part-time. They need ALOT of help in PHX.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineBok269 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 2105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8268 times:

Really shows how greed can get to some people. Delta employees and customers should be greatful Mr. Grinstein was in command as they exited bankruptcy.

On a side note, does F/A pay really top out in the mid 30's?



"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8220 times:

Typical class warfare and socialist message from Bill Moyers.

If NW's employees could find a better job at another employer they'd leave in a second. The fact that they don't while complainigni about the company is just proof that they are still over paid for their skills.

It is amazing to hear them talk. If it were not for the CEO stock options we could have health care benefits that we didn't have t opay anything for. If it were not for the CEO stock options we coud fully fund our pension plan for a year.

When will the unions wake up? Most workers in this country don't have pensions. Most pay something for health care coverage. These people will drag down GM and Ford and NW kicking and screaming while they try to hang on by their fingernails to a reality that does not exist any more.

I bet that most NW's FA would have a tough time getting a job at Mc Donald's with their attitude. And I can hear a NW pilot interviewing for NetJets or a corporate flight department... What you mean, all I get is a 401K? What about the pension? When can I retire? What if I don't want to "bid" for a trip? What do you mean only 2 weeks vacation? Is that per uarter? What? I don't get free flight rights anymore?

It is so sad when the world changes and some people just get stuck in the past forever.



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7525 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8175 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 2):
I applied for a job with NWA at the end of this July in PHX. Never got a thank you letter, never heard back from them. Good Riddance! NWA is really showing its B.S. after all

Just like all the other airlines, like UA, US, HP and such didn't do the same thing when I applied there.


Finally this is old, since it doesn't go back to the new pilot agreement that started at the beginning of August.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2741 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8167 times:

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 9):
If NW's employees could find a better job at another employer they'd leave in a second. The fact that they don't while complainigni about the company is just proof that they are still over paid for their skills.

One of the dumbest statements I've ever read on this board.

Many airline employees can find better jobs outside of aviation, but choose to stay because of their passion for the airlines. I've met pilots who have left jobs as stock brokers to fly, flight attendants who were making two to three times their current pay at their past jobs, and customer service agents with advanced degrees in finance and engineering. The fact that they don't quit does not prove that they are overpaid. Rather it proves that they are passionate about aviation and loyal to their company, even in the face of incompetence and greed in the executive offices.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineBok269 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 2105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8103 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 11):

One of the dumbest statements I've ever read on this board.

Many airline employees can find better jobs outside of aviation, but choose to stay because of their passion for the airlines. I've met pilots who have left jobs as stock brokers to fly, flight attendants who were making two to three times their current pay at their past jobs, and customer service agents with advanced degrees in finance and engineering. The fact that they don't quit does not prove that they are overpaid. Rather it proves that they are passionate about aviation and loyal to their company, even in the face of incompetence and greed in the executive offices.

 checkmark 

To add on, the pilots can't really leave and fly elsewhere because they would end up at the bottom of the seniority list, making 30k a year in the right seat sitting reserve, after building up decades of seniority at NW. While the pay may not be great, it is the best they can do in their position.



"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
User currently offlineSacamojus From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 228 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8052 times:

Unfortunately this is capatilism at its finest. The people who made these decisions to pay the CEO these huge sums of money was none other than the BOD which is their to look out for owners. Don't get me wrong, as someone who took a 50% paycut to switch jobs I know that losing money isn't easy. Managers are only paying market wages and benefits and only an increase in demand or a decrease in supply will make things better. Good luck to all airline employees especially the ones at DL because they are the best!

User currently offlineCharlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1119 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8016 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 2):
Very rude people, I tell ya! If NWA wants to have a good image, things have got to change starting with the folks up on top, including the HR folks as well!

You can do better!

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 9):
If NW's employees could find a better job at another employer they'd leave in a second. The fact that they don't while complainigni about the company is just proof that they are still over paid for their skills.

No one wants to start at the bottom and how does this show they are overpaid? How much lower can pay go before you are happy?

Has anyone noticed Steenland's face resembles a dog's butt?


User currently offlineSocalfive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7852 times:

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 9):
It is so sad when the world changes and some people just get stuck in the past forever.

Yes things are changing, there's no question, but you have no touch on reality yourself. Cuts can be a necessary evil but the bottom line is how fairly treated the front line employees are which at Northwest is like Crap. American avoided BK and stayed solvent and treat employees exactly the same as they always have, not great, not terrible. Continental avoided BK and stayed solvent and treat their employees as their most important asset - which of course they are, Southwest never came close to BK and has always treated their employees as its greatest asset. Airtran has, JetBlue has, I can go on and on. BAD management, egos and complacency put these companies in BK in the first place, not market forces, and with the single exception of Delta, management including the boards of directors stole the Booty from those that make it all work. So, when it comes to bad attitudes? Good, these people deserve to have bad attitudes and as that single factor costs Northwest market share, they'll find themselves back in BK, probably before these joker's four years are up.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7795 times:

Quoting Charlienorth (Reply 14):
You can do better!

Thanks. If NWA offers me the job anytime soon, I'm going to turn it down based on what I went through in July. That's a big no-no on the recruiter's part.  no 

If you want to be competitive, treat others how you want to be treated.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineUal-Fan From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7765 times:

Flew them on Monday, SAN - PHL via Detroit. The 757 really showed it's age big time. Didn't even have the expanded Overhead bins. No I.F.E. and a nasty flight crew. There were two female flight attendants that just looked haggard and miserable. They were not happy and they made sure the passengers knew it.

How do they compete at all on domestic routes with such terrible inflight service? Almost everyone else is upgrading service with PTV's, etc. but NWA doesn't seem to do anything.


User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7713 times:

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 6):
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 4):
I can't be a FA. Im uhhh deaf.

Ramp?, and if so, do you still have to wear ear protection?

That was just assinie go3Team, why even bother, I wish we had disrepect lists for comments like that...

In regards to the post, I don't blame the Mgmt, the video is wrong, US emerged when it Doug Parker's HP and investor Bought US from CH11... the and the reality of the matter is that if you earn 110 K per year or more in a 2 income household, your income the top 10 percent of income earners in this country.. get off the greed train!!!!!! and CEO's don't have the stability or backup that union's provide! they can be fired at a moments whim, unions require just cause....



Why do I fly???
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7639 times:

Quoting Ual-Fan (Reply 18):
How do they compete at all on domestic routes with such terrible inflight service? Almost everyone else is upgrading service with PTV's, etc. but NWA doesn't seem to do anything.

Its been my experience that no matter how bad the service is, how delayed the flight is, how ragged the airplane is, and how many times the passenger says "I will never fly this airline again"... if it saves them $5 the next time they're buying a flight to fly on that airline again, they will. And they'll complain again, say they'll never come back, and once again.. will... over and over and over. Northwest's management knows this.


User currently offlineCitrus1 From United States of America, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7620 times:

They must be doing something right they just brought a big piece of Midwest Airlines.

User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8892 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7611 times:

Had a decent experience with NW on my trip back on Monday. Flight attendants on mainline flights were very professional...everything seemed fine with them. Can't really get a good comment on pilots; one of them didn't sound the most enthusiastic, but then again, pilots aren't really interacting with customers; I have no problem with hearing very little, if no announcements from the flight deck. The other flight, the pilots did a good job of keeping us updated when we were waiting on a gate at MEM.

My bags were separated from me due to the aforementioned delay; the rep I called at NW to inquire where my bags were was outstanding - one of the best airline c/s agents I've ever dealt with (and I made sure I sent a letter over to NW to let them know about the outstanding service I received). The GSO agents were a bit incompetent I take it (they thought I was going to pick up my bags despite the entry on the record saying that it was to be delivered via courier), but this agent took care of it and was great to deal with (it wasn't as simple as what I wrote, I'm just too lazy to type the whole story as I did when I emailed NW).


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6432 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7473 times:

Quoting Ual-Fan (Reply 18):
How do they compete at all on domestic routes with such terrible inflight service? Almost everyone else is upgrading service with PTV's, etc. but NWA doesn't seem to do anything.

How do you account for the fact that NWA continualy has the highest domestic and international load factors in the industry? No excuse for rude F/A's but IFE really is not a big thing to most passengers.


User currently offlineSxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7444 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 23):
How do you account for the fact that NWA continualy has the highest domestic and international load factors in the industry? No excuse for rude F/A's but IFE really is not a big thing to most passengers.

Captive markets and junk connecting fares. NW is obsessed with load factors and will sell a ticket at almost any price to fill another seat.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6432 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7434 times:

Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 24):
Captive markets and junk connecting fares. NW is obsessed with load factors and will sell a ticket at almost any price to fill another seat.
Could me give me a few examples of this? Also, if what you say is true, how does NWA have one of the highest RASM's in the domestic market?

[Edited 2007-08-30 14:35:26]

25 Isitsafenow : I have a lot to say, both pro and con here about NW, the employees, the management 'deal' etc, etc As most of you A-net vets know, I worked for them y
26 Falstaff : Sometimes things change for the worse and need to be brought back around. I have worked in union workplaces and non union workplaces ( I am in a unio
27 TWFirst : I disagree. Market conditions are the incentive. Non-union businesses across the American West right now are upping each other on pay & benefits. Why
28 Bobnwa : The very best of luck with your operation. Hope to have you posting again soon.
29 Baron95 : I should have been more explicit. I meant if they are not happy with their compensation cuts (pay+benefits+frills+enjoyment = compensation), they are
30 M404 : Isitsafenow I'll miss your comments greatly and hope for your fast and safe return. Please keep in touch.
31 DAYflyer : And YX was stupid enough to cast thier lot in with this bunch instead of FL. Unreal.
32 Burnsie28 : OR maybe its just the fact that a lot of them by now would have to go back to school and start from the bottom. Have you gone through all flight trai
33 ACFA : The US is only 10% unionized, maybe even less. Your point about unions being the cause of "bad performance" does not account for the overwhelming maj
34 717-200 : At least you got a response. I applied for an asistant dispatcher position last year that was posted on their jobs site and got absolutely no respons
35 ACFA : Oh please, we all know that $26 million + is worth far more than anything a union's job security will provide. Tell me, if you were given the choice
36 Isitsafenow : Now here is a trick Q. Is it $alary or $tock option$ and other bennie$ worth the million$? Theres a dif, you know...... IF..... it was million$ in ju
37 Bok269 : You completely mistinterpreted my point. They are not at all above market compensation rates. What I am saying is that they could get better compensa
38 ACFA : The point of my post was to point out the ridiculousness of the notion that union job security and CEO compensation can even be compared. As we know,
39 ACFA : The whole notion that employees should only be paid their percieved "market rate" illustrates why unions are all the more essential. However, quite of
40 Baron95 : Actually, in the private sector, the US has low union rates. And that is one of the top reasons why the US has such a vibrant economy. In the civil g
41 Bok269 : Market demand is determined by the pilots. Pilots know they deserve 6 figures to captain a 777. The airlines realize this. If they wanted to be cheap
42 BWI757 : Can someone please provide a link to the video for those of us behind firewalls/content filters? Thanks BWI757
43 AirframeAS : Ahh, its okay. Most of the members on this site don't remember I'm a deafie. I didn't take offense to the FA comment, I thought it was funny actually
44 Jcavinato : Companies don't realize the harmful very long term public relations effect their HR people can cause with terrible behavior in the job interviewing pr
45 FlyDreamliner : where is Bobnwa? wait for it, wait for it........ NW makes a killing out of their above average number of exclusive routes which they price-gouge....
46 Jcavinato : Flydreamer. So correct on your comments. GM has something like 300,000 people in retirement with pension and health care costs. Viagara for retired me
47 Post contains images AirframeAS : When I went in for this NWA interview, this HR woman (too bad I can't say her name or I'll get banned..) really terrified the hell out of me. She was
48 Sxf24 : NW has one of the highest RASMs domestically largely because of the yield premium it can command in its largely captive heartland markets. The remain
49 Baron95 : Then, could you please explain to me how come today these rates are 35% or so lower then they were a couple of years ago? Did flying become easier? D
50 Commavia : Every once in a while, these threads pop up here on A.net and they all have basically the same message, and all basically start off with the same gene
51 JCS17 : For the millionth time, whining about airline executive pay is laugher of the century. Airline CEO pay continues to be among the lowest in the transpo
52 Acidradio : NW is that pitbull that is just too mean to die. Nothing can kill it.
53 FlyDreamliner : That is exactly true. It amazes me anyone flies on NW... their aircraft are full of their uncomfortable, blue-camo seats. They have no way, shape, or
54 Rbnyc : Sorry if this is off topic but regarding what "AirframeAS" said about being deaf: I am also, though I hear pretty decently thanks to what is called a
55 Bok269 : 9/11 changed everything. Loads dropped and the airlines weren't making as much money. They needed to cut costs. One of the ways they did this was by
56 AirframeAS : There is nothing in the FARs that says that I cannot work the ramp. Thats a myth as to everybody else out on that ramp is "deaf" when wearing ear ins
57 ODwyerPW : I have my own business. Therefore, I pay for everything. I don't buy into employees complaining about increased share of healthcare or having their pe
58 COERJ145 : Spirit, AA(domestic MD-80s) and WN have no IFE aboard. UA's 747s have no personal IFE in Y. On AA, CO, USand UA you have to pay for drinks on trans-a
59 JeffB : Um.. what I missing here? you can tell if someone is yelling into the phone in an angry tone.. yet your deaf? Just wondering...
60 Baron95 : Exactly. The airline, unfortunately has nothing going for it. It only limps along because it is in a somewhat underserved part of the country. It is
61 Post contains images AirframeAS : My captioner was with me and I had my hearing aid on. I could HEAR her with my hearing aid on, but I could not understand a friggin word she (the HR
62 MPDPilot : there are tones of other ways to do a merit based system and No airline would operate that way, that is a lawsuit waiting to happen. For example you
63 Bok269 : Again, define "better pilot". What's important is that they conduct the flight and land the plane safely.
64 MPDPilot : I agree very hard to define but I am sure there is a way. But hey maybe with some money incentive pilots can get even better, I am not sure how but i
65 Iaddca : I hit stop as soon as I saw his face.
66 Iaddca : Fortunately, union membership has fallen from 33% of the workforce in the 70s to just 12% today. In Virginia, just 3% of the workforce is unionized,
67 Post contains images N908AW : And so is Chapter 11 bankruptcy, then. Chapter 11 did nothing but help Dougie's pocketbooks. What was his reward for taking refuge under a judge, sla
68 ZL : I think this is wise. Low connecting fares will attract a lot of non-frequent flyers, and many of those may not even have a frequent flyer account. T
69 Bobnwa : Air Force and Navy pilot training for years has been able to determine the "better pilot". The better pilots they kept and the rest washed out. I hop
70 Logos : A moral issue? I guess where I part company here is that people should not treat all of this as a zero sum game where if someone else gets something
71 Bok269 : I'm not suggesting so much that there aren't better pilots, I'm just wondering if there is an objective way to rate them once they have passed all th
72 Caspritz78 : Isn't that already happening? I mean the load factor of airlines are well over what they were before 9/11. Didn't this summer showed that in the US t
73 Baron95 : The seniority system does have impacts on air safety. In my view for the worst. It robs for example the ability to pair gray beard experienced captai
74 Bok269 : When I meant conduct the flight and land safely, that included group ops as well. Anyone of those should result in corrective actions by the airline.
75 Post contains images KingAir200 : Somebody had to say it.
76 Bobnwa : See reply 70.
77 Post contains links KarlB737 : YouTube - bill moyers - northwest airlines http://youtube.com/watch?v=47Cv2JG_uvc Also this tidbit regarding the wishes of the Northwest Pilots Court
78 M404 : This business of some groups now wanting to change the contracts because they feel that NW took to big a bite will be another sore point against the c
79 Molykote : I would take the opinion that the market value of the pilots (and many other airline employees) decreased due to the reduced demand for air travel. T
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