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Is CO On The Verge Of Being A True "intl" Airline?  
User currently offlineCO777DAL From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 575 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13456 times:

Is CO on the verge of becoming a true “international” airline?

I was reading "American, other legacy airlines look internationally for growth" in the Dallas Morning News and the paper had lots of interesting information on Continental.

One thing I found particular interesting was the break down of percentage of international service among the airlines.

“Continental, for example, had 48.6 percent of its capacity in international service in July, up 10.4 percentage points from 2001.”

With almost 50% of their flying being international CO seems on the verge of becoming a true “international” airline. I say true international because CO will be flying more passengers internationally than domestically.

Does anyone think CO will reach and pass 50% of their passenger traffic being international? If yes, when do you think CO will reach that mark?

Will this be the first time (modern times) that one of the U.S. Legacy carriers will have more international passenger traffic than domestic? (Not counting pre regulation time airlines as Pan Am etc).

To me it seems CO is the most international of any of the US Legacy carriers. They are not the biggest in the country, but they still have a large domestic system and growing both domestic and international system.

I know there has been talk about the CO name and branding during, god forbid, those awful CO/UA merger threads, but CO flies to more international destinations than UA which gives them name and branding recognition in a large part of the world. It seems as each day passes the CO name and brand becomes stronger.

I also know no current US Legacy carrier is close to that of Pan Am, but is CO the closest US Legacy carrier today in terms of being the most international?

I was on a CO flight Tuesday and their napkin said “IT’S A SMALL WORLD. BUT ONLY IF YOU FLY THE RIGHT AIRLINE. The most international destinations of any U.S. airline.”

I guess it’s true they are not called Continental for nothing  Wink

Thoughts?


Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
162 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2641 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13317 times:

I am curious to know what percentage of AA, UA and DL's operations are international.

Correct me if I am wrong but:
DL beats CO to Europe
UA and NW beats CO to Asia and
AA beats CO to Latin America (incl the Caribbean)

It seems like CO can make that claim because of a ton of Mexico destinations along with Micronesia added to their Europe destinations.


User currently offlineCV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1098 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13287 times:

It seems that a large percentage of CO's international flights are on narrow bodied aircraft as opposed to the other legacy carriers. Who wants to fly 6++ hours in a 757?

User currently offlineCageyjames From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 278 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 13198 times:

Quoting CV880 (Reply 2):
Who wants to fly 6++ hours in a 757?

If it gets me where I need to be quicker, it would be well worth it.


User currently offlinePA101 From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 13167 times:

Well, compared to other carriers such as AA, CO seems to do the right strategy by focussing on secondary airports such as EDI, HAM or OSL as well. Thus, they'll eventually pick up more and more passengers that prefer to fly to EWR directly, without having to use the highly crowded hubs at LHR, CDG or FRA.

In my opinion, they'll have the best chance to grow further and therefore, in a few years, might be Americas largest international carrier.

In regards to their 757s flying TATL: even though, I consider narrowbodies somewhat nasty on long flights, I'd still choose on of their flights over having to transfer. And meanwhile, AA and NW started as well to use 757s for TATL flights... Seems like, CO set the path for that.


User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1553 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 13014 times:

Quoting CO777DAL (Thread starter):
Does anyone think CO will reach and pass 50% of their passenger traffic being international? If yes, when do you think CO will reach that mark?

Maybe in a few years time. Continental probably has many more services in planning right now. Can anyone confirm the rumour of a third daily TLV flight?



The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineTpaewr From United States of America, joined May 2001, 450 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12962 times:

Just becsue you don't like the aircraft doesn't mean EWR-TXL isn't an int'l flight. Facts are, that most CO pax are and have been int'l, given that wihle int'l service makes up 48%, and many of the domestic flight are full of int'l connecters.

But alas, these flights are not operated by 3-class 747-400s so they don't really count, never mind....


User currently offlineTreeHillRavens From Malaysia, joined Jun 2007, 389 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12875 times:

Quoting CV880 (Reply 2):
Who wants to fly 6++ hours in a 757?

AVOD are coming to the 752 in all classes. It will make a whole lot of difference.


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3068 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12840 times:

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 5):
Can anyone confirm the rumour of a third daily TLV flight?

Very unlikely until the 787s arrive. CO's widebody capacity is just about maxed out, and obviously the 757 can't make it.

Quoting United787 (Reply 1):
DL beats CO to Europe
UA and NW beats CO to Asia and
AA beats CO to Latin America (incl the Caribbean)

Those are all true. But CO is a close second to Europe, more of a distant second to Latin America. Obviously doesn't hold a candle to NW or UA in Asia.

CO's strategy is similar to DL, but different than the others. Take the example of Europe. AA and UA focus on the biggest and most important airports (LHR, FRA, CDG, AMS, etc.) and leave the rest to their partners. NW even more so - preferring to transfer just about all of their TATL pax to KL at AMS. DL and CO rely less on their partners and prefer to open more unique destinations.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16948 posts, RR: 48
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12765 times:

Quoting CV880 (Reply 2):
Who wants to fly 6++ hours in a 757?

Quite a lot of people, actually Smile



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12723 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 1):
It seems like CO can make that claim because of a ton of Mexico destinations along with Micronesia added to their Europe destinations.

They ARE international destinations, are they not? How does that qualify CO's claim in any way? It doesn't.

Quoting CV880 (Reply 2):
It seems that a large percentage of CO's international flights are on narrow bodied aircraft as opposed to the other legacy carriers. Who wants to fly 6++ hours in a 757?

Apparently, a lot of people, based on how successful CO's 757 flying to secondary European markets has been. Just because you don't like it as an Anet wanker doesn't mean the general public even cares. They want an aircraft to get them there. The type of equipment used doesn't qualify international service, either, does it?


User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12693 times:

Quoting CV880 (Reply 2):
It seems that a large percentage of CO's international flights are on narrow bodied aircraft as opposed to the other legacy carriers. Who wants to fly 6++ hours in a 757?

As opposed to 6-7 hours in a widebody, 2-3 hours on the ground in a crowded hub airport (possibly clearing customs and immigrations), and then another 30-60 minutes in a narrowbody/commuter airplane, and then finally being at your destination?

Uhm...I want to spend 6+ hours in a 757, to go right to my destination, thanks.



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3147 posts, RR: 35
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12673 times:

Quoting CO777DAL (Thread starter):
I also know no current US Legacy carrier is close to that of Pan Am, but is CO the closest US Legacy carrier today in terms of being the most international?

Part of the reason that CO's international network contributes such a large part of it's traffic is the fact that it's domestic network is so small. With it's two major hubs at the edge of the county, it is natural that it would have a big international share vs. domestic. CO's lack of a significant hub in the Midwest , Southeast or West (CLE is not significant yet) means that it's network is quite underdeveloped domestically. AA, UA and DL are much bigger domestically, which means that the domestic share of traffic is higher within their networks, despite being bigger international carriers than CO.

Also keep in mind that international traffic and revenue are not the same thing. CO carries a lot of people to Mexico. This has a huge impact on traffic, but contributes relatively small numbers in terms of revenue. 10 passengers to Merida are not as valuable as 10 passengers to Dubai. Or even 3, probably.

All of that said, all four of these carriers, and NW are "true" international carriers. Each of them rivals the largest cariers anywhere in the world.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6347 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12653 times:

Quoting Tpaewr (Reply 6):
Just becsue you don't like the aircraft doesn't mean EWR-TXL isn't an int'l flight. Facts are, that most CO pax are and have been int'l, given that wihle int'l service makes up 48%, and many of the domestic flight are full of int'l connecters

They are not counted twice. If a passenger flies MCO-EWR-CDG he is an international passenger only. He is not counted as domestic. So most CO passengers have not been intl, only 48%. Domestic passengers are 52%.


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12627 times:

Quoting PA101 (Reply 4):
In my opinion, they'll have the best chance to grow further and therefore, in a few years, might be Americas largest international carrier.

EWR capacity issues could constrain their growth.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 10):
They ARE international destinations, are they not? How does that qualify CO's claim in any way? It doesn't.

And it's the same way that European carriers can claim to be large international carriers: proximity to large foreign countries.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineLawnDart From United States of America, joined May 2005, 968 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12579 times:

Quoting CO777DAL (Thread starter):
“Continental, for example, had 48.6 percent of its capacity in international service in July, up 10.4 percentage points from 2001.”



Quoting CO777DAL (Thread starter):
Does anyone think CO will reach and pass 50% of their passenger traffic being international?

Do you consider "Passenger Traffic" as a passenger boarded or a passenger flown one mile?

If ten passengers board a CO flight in CLT, fly to EWR and then on to DEL, they produce approximately 78,000 revenue passenger miles, but if 90 others board in CLT and get off in EWR, they produce only 47,000 revenue passenger miles.

Using this example, 61% of the revenue passenger miles are being flown by internationally-destined passengers, but 90% of the passengers boarding the flight in CLT are domestic.

So keep in mind that the statistics being used are Available Seat Miles. Defining "passenger traffic" as Revenue Passenger Miles then, yes, CO will undoubtedly reach the 50% mark, or more.

Quoting Tpaewr (Reply 6):
Facts are, that most CO pax are and have been int'l, given that wihle int'l service makes up 48%, and many of the domestic flight are full of int'l connecters.

Although I have no facts as far as CO is concerned, I would bet that international passenger boardings are a smaller percentage than domestic boardings.


User currently offlineUzimmermann From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12581 times:

My wife flew with CO from SFO to HAM via EWR and it was a mess. On her outbound flight she arrived at SFO to be told her flight was late and she wouldn't be able to catch the EWR to HAM flight. Although she was there well early enough to get on a previous flight from SFO to EWR and there were seats available on that flight they wouldn't move her over. Now I wasn't present so I can't say what she tried or not tried to tell them. So she ended up late into EWR and after much back and forth they finally put her on a VS flight through LHR, then LH to HAM. She arrived like 6 hours or more late.

On the flight back I brought her to HAM and man, was she getting grilled by some CO Security person at HAM before she even got to the counter. I was standing next to her, having to translate a few times as the security person didn't speak english and my wife's german isn't that good. Took like over 10 minutes while other people got much faster to the counter.

She found the service on board of the 757 terrible and unfriendly and then got delayed again for some time in EWR before finally getting back to SFO. Never again she says.

I flew next day with BA via LHR, my check-in was a breeze, less then 3 minutes at the counter.


User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4650 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12561 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
CO's widebody capacity is just about maxed out, and obviously the 757 can't make it.

You can, however, replace a widebody with 2 757's (if cargo is not a large consideration) and deploy that to TLV.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 13):
They are not counted twice. If a passenger flies MCO-EWR-CDG he is an international passenger only. He is not counted as domestic. So most CO passengers have not been intl, only 48%. Domestic passengers are 52%.

May I ask where you got this info from? The article clearly refers to capacity, not passengers. So the MCO-EWR segment IS counted as domestic. If MCO-EWR-CDG is counted as an international passenger, you have an international pax on domestic capacity (and that with all connecting international traffic) so the number of international passengers is probably higher then that 50% (provided there is more then 2% international connecting traffic).



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12484 times:

Quoting Uzimmermann (Reply 16):
I flew next day with BA via LHR, my check-in was a breeze, less then 3 minutes at the counter.

Like most airline anecdotes, this is one flight from one person. I don't doubt that your wife had a bad experience, but no airline is immune from late flights or rescheduling, as I have had plenty of bad experiences on most airlines, BA, LH, et al. CO wins customer rankings year in and year out because when you average the experience out across the board, people tend to have generally better experiences on CO because they put a lot of effort into the customer service. They will always be exceptions however...you just need to recognize that one experience does not an airline make.

All things considered, only getting in 6 hours late after missing an International connection would make me THRILLED. My average is probably around the 18-24 hour mark. Unless you're flying direction to a Euro Megahub, there aren't a boatload of options for re-routing many times.



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineSan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4939 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12427 times:

Quoting JRadier (Reply 17):
You can, however, replace a widebody with 2 757's (if cargo is not a large consideration) and deploy that to TLV.

No you can't, the 757's range isn't nearly close enough to do a NONSTOP flight that long. If you had it stop somewhere in Europe, it could work, but then what advantage would it have over any other routing you could take?



Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2495 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12349 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 1):
Correct me if I am wrong but:
DL beats CO to Europe
UA and NW beats CO to Asia and
AA beats CO to Latin America (incl the Caribbean)

What's importqant about the above statement is that no carrier that "beats" CO is shown also beating CO in another category and most are way down the list in other categories. CO's international services are more diversified than DL, UA, AA and NW. Number 2 in most categories and number 3 in one adds up to unparalleled international coverage for CO. Sure, larger aircraft would be nice, but CO has a solid fleet plan that will allow greater international expansion in 2008 and 2009.
While AA struggles with the looming replacement issue of the huge MD80 fleet, UA having identity and service issues, DL trying to rebrand themselves and NW just trying to stay afloat, CO is pressing forward on a steady pace, even if some see it as slower than they would like.


User currently offlineLetsgetwet From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 609 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12307 times:

Quoting Uzimmermann (Reply 16):
On the flight back I brought her to HAM and man, was she getting grilled by some CO Security person at HAM before she even got to the counter.

This security person was more than likely a airport employee , not a Continental employee.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12287 times:

Actually, I'm not even sure that CO's claim to be more international is even accurate. I believe DL now serves more destinations worldwide than any other airline so by that measure CO is not the largest int'l airline.

As several have shown, on a traffic basis CO is not #1 in any region of the world.

But the real measure demonstrating how international a carrier is the percent of revenue an airline derives from int'l operations. By accounting standards, companies do report where their revenue comes from. CO does get a higher percentage of revenue from int'l operations but not more absolute revenue than other US carriers.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
DL and CO rely less on their partners and prefer to open more unique destinations.

Actually, DL has very strong relationships with its partners but it ALSO has a diverse route network. I personally think CO will be squeezed in the int'l arena as other carriers offer the same destinations CO has but also have alliance relationships to support those routes.

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 12):
Part of the reason that CO's international network contributes such a large part of it's traffic is the fact that it's domestic network is so small.

CO's domestic system also loses money, according to DOT data, and has since 9/11. CO's profits come solely from its int'l system. No other US airline has been unprofitable in any region of the world as long as CO is on its domestic system.

And CO is adding capacity to its domestic system, partly to get its costs down but it is also depressing its revenue performance.

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 12):
With it's two major hubs at the edge of the county, it is natural that it would have a big international share vs. domestic.

Both of them are also very large international cities too.

Quoting Uzimmermann (Reply 16):
I was standing next to her, having to translate a few times as the security person didn't speak english

please tell me you are kidding. An employee or even a public contact contractor working for a US airline who cannot speak English?

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 20):
CO is pressing forward on a steady pace, even if some see it as slower than they would like.

Actually, CO was virtually alone in adding int'l capacity in the late 90s and into the early 2000s. They will find the sledding increasingly difficult as other carriers add capacity. They are certainly not in danger but their heady forward progress will slow because there are lots of other int'l airlines adding capacity. Every US airline is figuring out to wring just one more int'l flight out of their existing fleet.


User currently offlineCOEI2007 From Vanuatu, joined Jan 2007, 1912 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12266 times:

Quoting CV880 (Reply 2):
It seems that a large percentage of CO's international flights are on narrow bodied aircraft as opposed to the other legacy carriers. Who wants to fly 6++ hours in a 757

Who wants to travel from HAM to EWR via LHR? I'd rather fly a 757 than have two flights or have to transfer at LHR!


User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4650 posts, RR: 50
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12255 times:

Quoting San747 (Reply 19):

No you can't, the 757's range isn't nearly close enough to do a NONSTOP flight that long. If you had it stop somewhere in Europe, it could work, but then what advantage would it have over any other routing you could take?

Yes you can, only you haven't read the sentence correctly. You replace a widebody with 2 757's (the second EWR-AMS for example), and put that 767 (if that makes it, otherwise you can trade that in somewhere for a 777) on EWR-TLV. Of Course there are plenty of downsides (less cargo capacity, EWR-TLV being a longer flight so you need to get more capacity from somewhere), but it is possible.



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
25 WorldTraveler : BA carries alot of traffic from the US to continental Europe via LHR and AF carries plenty of traffic from the US to Germany. Whether you think it ma
26 Pizzaandplanes : Probably exaggerated a little. True. She is very lucky to be only 6 hours late. Anyway, things happen and no one's perfect. Yes, it seems a little ri
27 RwSEA : Another downside is the fact that EWR is completely saturated in the evening rush as it is, and running 2-3x daily 757s to a market that could easily
28 Tpaewr : I read "Continental, for example, had 48.6 percent of its capacity in international service ", capacity I am understanding as ASMs, not RPM, nor RASM
29 JRadier : You make some very valid remarks, and like I said there are plenty of downsides. I don't see CO doing what I described, however it is a possibility.
30 WesternA318 : If this was 1960ish, would you be asking ...Who wants to fly 6++ hours in a 707/DC-8? Or heaven forbid, the old SAS DC-8's from Oslo to LAX/SFO?
31 Uzimmermann : I am flying the SFO to HAM route about twice a year for the last 12 years. Original I tried different airlines, DL, LH, KL but I settled on BA. Origin
32 CV880 : I'd rather be in a DL767-300ER vs a CO757-200 anyday. Now when DL begins TATL 757 service with fuel stops on the westbound leg (if that happens), the
33 Jetlanta : You didn't understand my point. I'm saying that certainly CO has a higher % of its capacity in international markets, but an extremely large portion
34 WorldTraveler : but the costs to fly to Merida are much lower than to Dubai. That is why at a route level the best metric is the profit MARGIN - which considers both
35 Letsgetwet : [quote=Uzimmermann,reply=31]other people behind her got to the counter before her. /quote] What was it about your wife that made them suspicious?
36 TrvlnMan : Yeah, As stated above, 48% international. That leaves the remaining 52% for domestic..... 48 IS less than 52.
37 TrvlnMan : I find that hard to believe.... I'd be interested in hearing how the conversation between her and the agent went. Not saying it didn't happen, just a
38 STT757 : Does that include the Quarters that CO was reporting profits and DL was under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection from their Creditors? CO was the First
39 WorldTraveler : I'm not disputing that. I'm simply saying that the most recent DOT data shows that CO's domestic system is unprofitable and the same data says that it
40 MastaHanky : I still find it funny that people have no problem doing a 6+ hour trip on a 757 (or smaller) from EWR to LAX, but a 6+ hour trip from EWR to EDI is h
41 WorldTraveler : just wait til 737NGs start plying the North Atlantic.
42 LTBEWR : Most people would define as a true 'international' airline as one that offers service to a number of significant countries, not just nearby island or
43 STT757 : Another item that makes CO more International than the other US carriers is the fact that one of CO's hubs (Guam) caters almost entirely to connecting
44 STT757 : They already are, albeit with Business Class only seating: LH/Privatair: EWR-Munich daily BBJ EWR-Dusseldorf daily A319LR ORD-Dusseldorf daily A319LR
45 Pizzaandplanes : Those numbers are mostly correct. Some of CO's Air Micronesia flights don't operate daily but 5 times weekly (Guam-Cairns). Unfortunately, thats not
46 IAHFLYER : Will CO ever make a non-stop IAH or EWR-Guam flight? Guam is listed as a hub on the website. Yet, to get there you have to go to HAWAII first.
47 Falcon84 : Depends on your itinerary, doesn't it? If you want to get nonstop to places like HAM, BEL, SNN, DUB, TXL, etc, from the states, you'll have to fly a
48 CALPSAFltSkeds : Wow, now WorldTraveler states that CO has a disaster of a domestic system and that its international system will be pinched out by other carriers. Ye
49 Post contains images Falcon84 : Hardly a disaster. It may not be as big as UA's or DL's, but it moves CO's traffic around quite nicely. EWR and IAH are, basically, at max strength n
50 TheCol : If I can do 5 and 1/2 in a 737, then I can definitely fly 6-7 hours comfortably in a 757.
51 Evan767 : Actually Delta flies a 763 to TXL, a 763 to DUB from ATL and JFK, and a 764 to SNN from JFK and ATL. It's true that for CO's 'smaller' European marke
52 Post contains images LawnDart : Actually, I understood it to mean 757s flying to TLV as well. Maybe it was you who didn't write the sentence correctly Are you talking about CO's tri
53 Jbernie : I thought all you needed to be a true international airline was to tack "international" in your name some where, it seems to be all you need here in t
54 Uzimmermann : Good question, she repeated the same direction of questions over and over again, like why were you in germany, what do you have in the luguage.
55 PlanenutzTB : Always a comfy ride on a CO 757 transcon at 5 +...6++ on intl should also be very nice. I see no difference in seat comfort between a narrow and wide
56 CV880 : Where have You been......DL has been flying those routes with L10's and 767's for years.....the only carrier for years in the NYC-TXL market (767) &
57 CALPSAFltSkeds : You got it, the public lost because the cost of fuel means that aircraft like the 767s and L1011s are not efficient on those routes and the result is
58 Jyatlantic : If only Continental had a real International First Class product, and not business/first hybrid (yuck!) They certainly do have the potential, consider
59 Pboud0 : Air Canada flies an A319 from YYT to LHR once a day.
60 Teme82 : CO isn't "tue" intl airline untill they have flown to HEL. At least on my books. Current carriers in US only DL is one that have flown to HEL. Before
61 EA CO AS : Here's a better question - why would you turn down a 757 when you'd jump at the chance to fly the same distance on a far narrower, shorter, smaller G
62 Sofianec : I adore your positive attitude and I am sure that CO will continue to grow internationally and fly more and more pax every year but since you asked t
63 Fllcontinental : No offense to you but what you are saying is uneducated and ridiculous. You should actually fly CO internatioally a few times before you say that. CO
64 Sofianec : I can agree it's an overstatement but it is not ridiculous. It's also true I never flew on CO internationally (I never claimed to) but the handling o
65 JRadier : People, start reading! A lot of the comments just miss their target because they don't answer the quote! Again, read. He said 'hastily expansion'. DL
66 B4REAL : The 757s are coming to TATL operations for DL...
67 Daron4000 : Even though they may fly to the most destinations (disputed here but not really relevant), they lack the capacity to be the US' most international ai
68 Letsgetwet : If you were the party that ticketed this unaccompanied minor, than you are the one who was incompetent! Why would you route a minor with a transferr
69 Post contains links and images 777gk : View Large View MediumPhoto © Javier Rodriguez - Iberian Spotters I know not very recent (don't worry, I caught your qualifier), but come on, wh
70 Bobnwa : By your definition, then UA ,NW,CX,SQ,VS,AA etc are not true intl cariers since they don't fly to HEL but Finnair would be a true intl carrier?
71 Dz09 : I doubt that. I flew BCN-EWR yesterday (~ 8 hour flight) and it was not a pleasant flight. There should be some regulations against using narrow bodi
72 STT757 : I flew EWR-BCN last October on my Honeymoon with my Wife who is claustrophobic, it was one of our best flights.
73 JRadier : How about you just book with another airline if you don't like it?
74 DZ09 : What a stupid comment! I would if I had a real choice.
75 Letsgetwet : CO carries way over a million people across the Pond in their 757's every year. Not to mention the passengers on their wide -body fleet. Why would yo
76 JRadier : Thank you for that unwarranted flame! You always have a choice!
77 Falcon84 : Capacity is one thing. Flying to the most destinations is another. Apple and oranges, my friend. And UA is a larger airline than CO. Always has been.
78 Letsgetwet : What was it about your flight that you did'nt like. The service? the seat pitch? The fact that you didn't have to transfer in another airport ? The f
79 DZ09 : Having to fly on a 757 and wanting to fly on 757 across the atlantic are 2 different things. Like you said, next time I will try to fly with the 10 o
80 DZ09 : I would very much like to get an honest opinion about travelling on 757's on such long flights from regular travellers not from some airline employees
81 DZ09 : I am a CEO and a successful one, but I am not your typical 150M a year CEO. My business is based on providing the best product possible. I do not hav
82 Sofianec : How exactly were we incompetent? Our responsibility is to issue the ticket. The airline's responsibility however is to get it to the final destinatio
83 JRadier : Then you should know that customers just go elsewhere if they don't like the service. Furthermore, it appears that you have to answer to no-one (apar
84 Letsgetwet : [quote=DZ09,reply=79]Having to fly on a 757 and wanting to fly on 757 across the atlantic are 2 different things. Like you s aid, next time I will try
85 Sofianec : Oh I am really sorry - would you care to specify which part of the "syntax" lacked coherence? I will gladly explain it to you if you require. It's to
86 Turk223 : I just flew last week a Finnair 757 from Helsinki to Boston via Stockholm - about 10 and 1/2 hours. No big deal and felt just as cramped as a British
87 Post contains links MasseyBrown : Exactly, Falcon84. This whole thread begs the question - assuming what you are trying to prove. Who says CO wants to be a "true international airline
88 Letsgetwet : In other words....... You didn't give a crap how this kid got home , As long as you sold the tickets!
89 Sofianec : Thank you that's exactly my view of things. It's the profit that matters. Everything else is just chatter and fan-talk.
90 Post contains images WesternA318 : Ohh, I dont think so, otherwise, how did the 707's and DC-8's make it across the pond all those many years ago? I believe OA has a departure to ATH o
91 Falcon84 : Whatever. The 757 IS capable of making the flight, and it is certified to do so. You may be a CEO, but you don't know beans about airlines, or the ca
92 Junction : Wow! You guys must be really bored this week...This is the most laughable thread I've see here in a long time. The consensus seems to be - (1) you can
93 FUN2FLY : At 70% capacity, it's a nice ride with an empty middle seat. 100% capacity, it's tight. Same for a widebody. CO will soon have AVOD in the 752's whic
94 JRadier : It seems to be pretty accurate, however you left out 4) You're not a true international airline if you don't serve HEL
95 Evan767 : Actually, the difference is a 2-in-3 chance of getting a shitty seat on the 752, compared to a 1 in 7 chance of getting a shitty seat on a 762, 763,
96 Post contains links CV880 : A TATL 757, or this? http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1253359/M/
97 PA101 : As a private traveller with no business in the airline industry : I agree with you that long-haul travel on narrowbodies is somewhat less comfortable
98 Post contains images 747fan : The moment I saw the title of this thread, I knew it would turn into a "757's across the Atlantic" argument. Guess what? After 97 posts, I was exactly
99 Post contains images Falcon84 : Or CLE. I honestly don't see much different. I suppose it's the illusion of more room, since there are two aisles, but in essence, the aisles are pre
100 Falcon84 : To answer the question, though. CO is already a true international airline. We fly all over the world. That is the definition of a true international
101 CV880 : 757's are great airplanes......just look at the AVOD equipped ex-Song aircraft which fly domestic/transcon DL (something like 48 in number). Been ple
102 CV880 : Yep, and UA has it over anyone else at the moment. They just need to better manage what they have.
103 757co777 : I am quite sure that there are those out there willing to, especially if it was all business class. Any chance of CO or any other US carrier making "
104 St530 : Not to mention a lot of F airlines that only have J on certain widebody flights (e.g., AA's 767s, AF's 332s, SQ's 772's, BR's 332s and 772s, etc.).
105 Post contains images Falcon84 : Maybe that's because DL is a lot bigger than CO.
106 WorldTraveler : and the world revolves around Asia/Pacific? Why don't you list African, S. American, and Eastern European destinations if you want to provide a fair
107 Letsgetwet : You keep harping about CO's domestic flying. The bottom line is that CO is a profitable airline, which is more than you can say about DAL. ( CO has a
108 STT757 : You stated DL has the most International destinations of the US carriers, which is wrong CO has the most International destinations. The Asia Pacific
109 MasseyBrown : As discussed with you in another thread, operating margins aren't the best way to compare airline profitability since the number varies so much based
110 Falcon84 : That may be, but the Big 3 European flags don't have to worry about serving a domestic market the size of the United States, either. They're almost f
111 Letsgetwet : Amen
112 Evan767 : In my opinon, "Asia" and "The Pacific Rim" AKA "Oceania", are two totally different categories. You can't try to mix up words to try and make it look
113 WorldTraveler : But they have not been as profitable of late as other airlines because their domestic system is not profitable. Just admit it - CO has a problem maki
114 WorldTraveler : sorry...we're having font issues.... the oversized font is not intended.
115 CALMSP : is a 737 okay from EWR-SEA??
116 Post contains images Falcon84 : Of course not! Anything over 5 or 6 hours should be a WIDEBODY! Even if it means going out with empty seats; losing money; not using your assets wise
117 CALPSAFltSkeds : That comment is totally misleading. TWA received its first 757 in July 1996, years after STT757 was born. Of course TWA flew narrowbodies and props a
118 MasseyBrown : Let's see .... first I say, "Cite some facts please." And then you say, "They are commonly known; look them up yourself." And then I say, "You can't
119 Post contains images TrvlnMan : Here we go with the "regulations" crap...
120 AA767LOVER : CO is not only short for COntinental. But it is also short for COmpetent. Good work CO!
121 Post contains images 747fan : The reason they haven't done so (and aren't in the near future) is due to weight issues. Delta flies some of the longest 763ER routes (ATL-ATH, ATL-S
122 DZ09 : Nobody said it is not capable of flying 8 hours. An 8 hours flight on a 757 is comparable to an 8 hour ride on a greyhound bus, and that is not right
123 DZ09 : There is a big difference between a 6 hour flight and an 8 hour one. What's the difference in capacity between a 762 and a 752? You want to experienc
124 Falcon84 : You said it was not fit for such flying. Same thing. It is fit. It is capable. No law is needed because you don't like the fact it fllies longs route
125 Letsgetwet : Really!? Yeah I think 2 hours. OK the next time I want to get to BCN non-stop from EWR I'll give Emirates a try.
126 CV880 : I could be wrong, but think it's more of a overhaul issue at present. The 764's and 738 transcons have a higher priority at the moment for the PTV's.
127 DZ09 : very funny. I would love to have that choice. I'll take EK over any lousy US airline any day.
128 STT757 : They are the same capacity, the 767-200 has more B/F seats. If you want to fly nonstop from the NY area to the most International Destinations you fl
129 Letsgetwet : Like I said before YOU ALWAYS HAVE A CHOICE. You just have to prioritize your values.
130 DZ09 : Who said anything about making a stop in the UAE. I took 3 trips to Ham in August with EK from JFK and I would love to see EK fly to more destination
131 TrvlnMan : Good - next time take the 45 minute drive again and spare us your double-talk..... it's getting boring. If CO is so awful, why would you even conside
132 DZ09 : Like I said in my previous post, I had a choice when flying to Ham and I picked the much better company. All I'm saying is that it would be nice to h
133 Post contains images TrvlnMan : What's the difference between a full 752 and a full 762??? If both are full, you're still packed in with 174 or 173 other flying sardines.  [Edited
134 Letsgetwet : So what's stopping them (or you)? Stop your babbling and take your $ elsewhere.
135 DZ09 : you'll have much happier sardines in the 762. You're right, this is getting boring so I'll just shut up.
136 Atmx2000 : Who said it is our choice anyway? What makes you think European countries are going to give EK more rights, particularly with 5th freedom rights? Bes
137 Falcon84 : Why? Because there is two aisles? Let me ask you this: how often are you even gonna go meander down that 2nd aisle during that flight? Never. So, in
138 DZ09 : Yes Sir. I'll stop my babbling and I have been taking my $ elsewhere.
139 CV880 : With respect to this quote, what was the reasoning behind US, AA, CO purchase of 767-200ER's vs 300ER's, as the capacity of the 300ER for both pax an
140 Evan767 : Guys, why can't you get this through your heads: 767's are more comfortable and less crammed than 757's. Why might you ask? Yes, that second aisle an
141 Letsgetwet : Too bad that the 767 will likely be the next model to disappear off the long haul routes. Airlines care more about economics than your comfort.
142 Evan767 : Ok, that's not the argument everyone is talking about. So you admit, 767's are more comfortable than 757's across the pond?
143 Earlj : They have worked so hard over the years, and certainly deserve their wonderful posture in the aviation industry. We folks living in the US are darn lu
144 Viscount724 : The biggest advantage of a 767 over a 757 is the fact that there is only middle seat out of 7, and no passenger has to disturb more than one other pa
145 Earlj : They have worked so hard over the years, and certainly deserve their wonderful posture in the aviation industry. We folks living in the US are darn lu
146 EWRCabincrew : From my estimation a "true" international airline would be one that solely flies internationally. Few airlines qualify for this. The ones that come to
147 Post contains images WorldTraveler : Very graciously said EWRCabinCrew. A few more details, though. No it isn't unless you struggle with the English language. TW was flying the Atlantic w
148 Falcon84 : An impression, not a reality when you get down to it.
149 Letsgetwet : I never said that they are not. From my personal experience , I feel that the difference is not enough to make me cry about it (as some here do). As
150 STT757 : Nope, you made this claim before and it's still inaccurate. TWA did not take delivery of their first 757 until November of 1996. CO was already flyin
151 Falcon84 : On what route? I don't remember us flying any 757's across the pond at that time.
152 STT757 : EWR-Lisbon.
153 STT757 : And Manchester, though I'm not sure which was first Lisbon or Manchester but I think they were launched around the same time.
154 Post contains links STT757 : 1995 is the year CO introduced the 757-200 to Manchester UK, their first trans-Atlantic 757-200 route. CO received their first 757-200 in May 1994, f
155 Toxtethogrady : That seems to be CO's problem - their orientation has been so NY-centric lately that a lot of plum Houston routes have gotten away from them. They wa
156 Justloveplanes : My favorite economy class ride has been the 767. Better than 777, A330, A340, 747 and 757. It has nothing to do with the 757 being a narrow body, the
157 Bobnwa : CO can't fly to LHR until the open skies takes effect next year. Slots at LHR are not the problem.
158 Justloveplanes : Is there a link Is there a DOT link you can share regarding domestic profitablity? I would be interested in CO as well as other airlines. Perhaps CO b
159 Post contains links WorldTraveler : http://www.transtats.bts.gov/databas...1&Mode_Desc=Aviation&Subject_ID2=0
160 JRadier : Pardon your ignorance (yeah, that was intentionally), but slots at LHR are very much a problem apart from some ungodly hours no-one wants to fly.
161 Post contains images Siege2L : I am an exception ( or one of them, rather )... I was limited on when I had to return home on a Thanksgiving holiday last year. I was flying home fro
162 Bobnwa : Slots at LHR are a problem since CO will get them from its Skyteam partners. The reason CO cannot fly to LHR right now is that don't have the authori
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