Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Forgetting To Shut Down Cell Phone In Flight  
User currently offlineBillReid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 1037 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 14034 times:

Is there a danger if I or anyone on board forgets to turn their cell phone off?

I know that alot of people throw the contraption into a purse or brief case and forget to turn off, is there a real danger?


Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
133 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlypdx From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 636 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 14001 times:

I've forgotten to do it once or twice..The plane didn't crash. I don't think there is much of a danger, especially considering that at one point allowing cell phone use on aircraft was being considered if I recall correctly.

User currently offlineASAFA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 171 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13985 times:

For most phones, no, but there are a thousand variables. If it happens to be in a place where it causes interference then yes, it could be a danger.

The phones get no signal at altitude but switch to maximum power searching for a signal. This causes A) the battery to die quickly and B) a powerful signal that is more likely to interfere with communications. Have you ever set your phone by a clock radio or a speaker and then received a call? I don't want my phone causing that static interference on the radio as the pilots receive critical instructions.



Prepare for Takeoff
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5478 posts, RR: 31
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13942 times:

You've never flown in the middle east then. There are phones ringing all flight. I have gained a whole new respect for the electronics in a plane. I really don't think that cell phones are anything to be afraid of. They're annoying...but I don't think they're dangerous...


What the...?
User currently offlineB777Neuss From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13933 times:

It´s forbidden, because no one never proved that cell phones don´t have influence to aircraft.

User currently offlineCorsair1107 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13915 times:

I've accidently left the thing on in my checked bag once or twice, I'm still here. I wouldn't want them allowed on flights though, the cabin is chatty enough without having to hear about what somebody wants their significant other to pick up at the store or how the kids' school play went.


Flown on: DHC-6/8, F100, B1900C, 717, 727, 737, 757, 767, 777, 319, 320, C152/172, E135/145, DC-9, MD-83/88 CL600
User currently offlineJamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13915 times:

Quoting B777Neuss (Reply 4):

Thats not true, I was in the back seat of a Piper propeller plane (yes its not commercial, but it must run on the same radio system right? ) And I had left my phone on, and about 20seconds after take off we all heard the dar-dit of a phone trying to get signal and couldn't hear ATC (the instructions weren't for us but none the less) so phones can interfere with radios on planes so now i always check 3 times before we go anywhere.

Rgds --James--



You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
User currently offlineMustang304 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13890 times:

I've heard them ring as well. While in VFR using GPS, it probably isn't as much as an issue as trying to navigate to a station hundreds of miles away, or shooting an approach.

I've always thought the airlines should adopt the "If your phone rings during the flight, you will be required to buy every passenger on the airplane a round of drinks" -- it would probably put a quick stop to anyone forgetting to turn it off.


User currently offlineSilverfox From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1058 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13876 times:

i know they dont work at 3000ft on a ryanair flight dub-edi
(left mine on by mistake and on landing got a bleep saying there was a message left while i was aloft)


User currently offlineIaddca From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13810 times:

Quoting BillReid (Thread starter):
Is there a danger if I or anyone on board forgets to turn their cell phone off?

Yes, to the airline's plan to make money from IFE services.


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13795 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

Quoting Flypdx (Reply 1):
I've forgotten to do it once or twice..The plane didn't crash. I don't think there is much of a danger, especially considering that at one point allowing cell phone use on aircraft was being considered if I recall correctly.



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 3):
I really don't think that cell phones are anything to be afraid of. They're annoying...but I don't think they're dangerous...



Quoting Corsair1107 (Reply 5):
I'm still here.



Here are some examples of cellphone interference for those who don't understand (or are unwilling to accept) that cellphones present a hazard:


....From http://www.rvs.uni-bielefeld.de/publications/Reports/EMI.html

Some Anecdotes and Discussion

Jim Irving is a colleague who flies B737 aircraft for a major US carrier. He has an anecdote:

One day departing Portland Oregon we noted that the FMC [Flight Management Computer] Map display showed a disagreement with the "raw data" VOR position. Our training is such that we would normally immediately switch over to "raw data" and assume the FMC was in error.

We would have done that except that it was a beautifully clear day and I looked out the window and was able to determine that the FMC seemed to be right on. I called back to the cabin and asked the flight attendants to check for someone using a cell phone or computer. A few minutes later they called back to say that a man had been using his cell phone and it was now off. Strangely (?) our VOR and FMC map now agreed.

Later in the flight the flight attendants called back and said that they had caught the man using his cell phone again but this time we had not noticed any problems, perhaps because we were in cruise far from the ground and not paying as much attention.


Another pilot's account:

In our company we recently had a Localizer deviation (out of tolerances) on a B737-200 related to a GSM (mobile phone) being operated by a passenger (who was disregarding our company regulations). When requested by the cabin crew to switch off his GSM, localizer indications became normal. Is this scientific proof? Certainly not, but good enough for me as a captain to insist that all the electronic toys, computers, mobile phones, etc., are OFF during critical phases of flight. [...]

I had fuel indications on the FMC going crazy on board the B737, that returned to normal when all electronic stuff in the back was switched off. I suspect a "Gameboy" electronic game device to have interfered, but this is no more than a guess. No, I did not ask to switch the toy back on again and investigate more in depth as I was responsible for the safety of 140 passengers and this would have been extremely irresponsible! This is not a situation in which to do such testing! This [ever-present responsibility accounts for why] there is no "proof" of the relationship.

I also recall experiencing *impossible* mode annunciations on the FMA (flight mode annunciator) on B737. Having both the autothrottle AND the pitch channel of the autopilot trying to maintain speed (both in MCP SPD mode) for example, not programmed by the pilot (you cannot program that). After an expensive in-depth troubleshooting session by our maintenance department, the incompatible mode annunciations were traced to a ... faulty cockpit window heat wiring. This caused electronic interference with the auto flight system.


Here are some more incidents:

June 07, 1997. B737-300: *Verify position* was indicated on the CDU. Both IRS and radio position were correct, the FMC position was not. The difference rapidly increased to 8 nautical miles. After switching a GSM in the cabin from STBY to OFF, the FMC updated normally. FMC was correct for the remainder of the flight and on the return flight.

April 30, 1997. B737-400: During level cruise, the AP pitched up and down with ROC/ROD of 400 fpm indicated. Other AP was selected: no change. Cabin was checked for PC's and other electronic devices: nothing was found. Requested passengers to verify that their mobile phone (GSM) was switched OFF. Soon
after this request all pitch oscillations stopped.

[There was one incident reported with a] B737-200. During approach to MAN (Manchester International, UK), the LOC for landing runway 24 oscillated and centered with the aircraft not on track (but offset), confirmed visually. Ground equipment was monitored and working normally. When a GSM in the cabin was switched off, all indications became correct.

More examples, taken directly from NASA's ASRS:

In October of 1998, a Boeing 757, flying from Seattle to Covington/Cincinnati, experienced loss of all three of its autopilot systems. Flight attendants checked for a passenger using a portable electronic device and discovered a man wearing headphones, which were part of a hearing aid. The passenger was allowed to continue using the device, but was moved forward several rows. The autopilot system then regained full operational capabilities and was later checked by maintenance, with no problems being found.

In March of 1997, a Cessna 340/A pilot experienced erroneous readings when attempting to determine his location because of a passenger using a cellular phone. After the passenger turned off the phone, the pilot was able to locate his position and continue on with no problems.

In January of 1997, a regional jet was flying from Salt Lake City to Eugene. The flight crew received three separate warning messages stating that there were disagreements between the captain’s and the first officer’s instruments. The three warnings were for discrepancies in heading, airspeed, and altitude indicators. After flight attendants checked the cabin for passengers using portable electronic devices and had the devices turned off, all problems ceased.

In August 1995, an aircraft making its approach to George Bush Intercontinental Airport in Houston was advised that it was 4 miles off course. Because the course director indicators had been scalloping left and right of center, the captain ordered the flight attendant to check the cabin for any passengers using a portable electronic device. Within 15 seconds, problems with the course director indicators disappeared. The captain later learned that a passenger had been using a portable computer.

In May of 1995, the electric compass indicators of the first officer of a Boeing 737 gave erratic readings. After a sweep of the cabin was made for portable electronic devices, which resulted in flight attendants asking a passenger to turn off a compact disc player, the first officer’s instruments returned to normal working order.

Shortly after takeoff from Baltimore, in April 1994, an aircraft was advised by ground control that it was 10 miles off course, though the plane’s instruments indicated nothing abnormal. It was found that a passenger in first class was using a portable computer. After the computer was turned off, navigation instruments returned to normal.

In February 1994, a turboprop aircraft flying government officials from Lake Havasu, AZ to Yuma, AZ experienced trouble with its navigational radios. Ground control showed that the airplane was off course and gave corrections. However, the plane’s navigation system had been checked earlier in the month and was said to have zero error. After the flight, the pilot learned that at least one passenger was using a cellular phone while the plane was in the air.

In August 1992, a turbojet aircraft was notified three times, by two different control towers, that it looked to be off course. All instruments in the cockpit were showing the plane’s position to be correct. Flight attendants searched for portable electronic devices and found a tape machine and a hand-held video game unit in use. The devices were turned off and there were no other navigational discrepancies during the flight.

In September of 1990, a plane travelling from Boston to Youngstown/Warren, OH was advised it was off course and was issued a new heading. The plane’s navigational instruments showed it to be on course. After checking the cabin for portable electronic devices, the lead flight attendant informed the captain that 23 passengers were using AM/FM cassette players and one passenger was using a personal computer. The passengers were asked to turn off the devices and the flight proceeded without further incident.


--------------------------------------------------------------------

The lesson? Follow the rules. They're there for a reason.  yes 


2H4




Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17146 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13747 times:

Quoting ASAFA (Reply 2):
Have you ever set your phone by a clock radio or a speaker and then received a call?

That happens me often when I sit in front of the computer and some seconds before the phones ring besides me the computers loudspeaker makes some strange sounds and the screen sometimes gets blurred.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineB777Neuss From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13747 times:

OK, but these incidents are relatively old. Do newer cell phones or electronic devices have different/no influence?

(Oh no, it´s a german source, bad for me)  Wink


User currently offlineSNCntry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13700 times:

Quoting B777Neuss (Reply 12):
OK, but these incidents are relatively old. Do newer cell phones or electronic devices have different/no influence?

ALL FAR's are written in blood. I believe it is a FAR that cell phones may not be used inflight.

If you forget to do it, it happens, but just double check?



Long Live Memphis!
User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13694 times:

Topic being discussed in Tech Ops...

Electronic Interference? (by FrenchPilot Aug 30 2007 in Tech Ops)

And we have at least one trip report from an airline pilot where phones seem to have caused some trouble.

RE: For God's Sake, Switch Off Your Damn Cell Phones.. (by Pilotaydin Jan 12 2007 in Civil Aviation)?searchid=3196561&s=pilotaydin#3196561


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13670 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

Quoting B777Neuss (Reply 12):
Do newer cell phones or electronic devices have different/no influence?

They may, but remember, the standards have to be held to the lowest common denominator.

99% of the phones out there may be totally compliant with FCC regs, and cause no interference whatsoever. The problem is, the remaining 1% presents an unacceptable (and, perhaps more importantly, unnecessary) risk.

It only takes one navigational glitch or avionics error to ruin everyone's day. Uncle Dave's sports scores, Francine's office gossip, and little Jennifer's texting can wait. They can catch up when they arrive safely on the ground.  Smile


2H4




Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineDurangoMac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 743 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 13558 times:

After talking with some flight crews, it really depends on the aircraft. Some pilots on Dash-8's forget (or not) to turn off their phones and they really don't care. For pilots on CRJ-200's they seem to only get a annoying buzzing or chirping sound in their headphones. They really didn't say it was a big issue but more of annoyance during flight.


I think it really has something to do with the electronics onboard and the type of phone.


User currently offlineIaddca From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 13486 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 10):
The lesson? Follow the rules. They're there for a reason.

And during the time periods of the incidents you cite, that reason was not to jeopardize Airfone revenue.

Private jet pax use all kinds of electronic devices at all sorts of altitudes, this whole interference issue is absolute nonsense, particularly when you consider that cell phones operate mostly at 2 GHz, and NAV and ATC systems operate around 120 MHz.


User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3441 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 13452 times:

Quoting DurangoMac (Reply 16):
After talking with some flight crews, it really depends on the aircraft. Some pilots on Dash-8's forget (or not) to turn off their phones and they really don't care. For pilots on CRJ-200's they seem to only get a annoying buzzing or chirping sound in their headphones. They really didn't say it was a big issue but more of annoyance during flight.

I think it really has something to do with the electronics onboard and the type of phone.

I've flown bot the CRJ and Dash 8, and had the same trouble with the same phone (becuase it was mine.. whops). It was pretty much exactly as described by Jamesbuk.

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 17):
Private jet pax use all kinds of electronic devices at all sorts of altitudes, this whole interference issue is absolute nonsense, particularly when you consider that cell phones operate mostly at 2 GHz, and NAV and ATC systems operate around 120 MHz.

Thats fine and nice, and I can't argue the technical aspects as I have no training as an electrical engineer, but I have experienced first hand the interferance that cell phone causes on VHF. Its most easily detectable on the com radios, but these function just above the VOR and ILS freqs, so it is reasonable to assume that cell phones couls not only interfere with critical communication, but also navigation.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineYflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1102 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 13425 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 15):
They may, but remember, the standards have to be held to the lowest common denominator.

99% of the phones out there may be totally compliant with FCC regs, and cause no interference whatsoever. The problem is, the remaining 1% presents an unacceptable (and, perhaps more importantly, unnecessary) risk.

And could you imagine how hard it would be for the FAA to compile a list of which cell phones are ok and which aren't, not to mention how hard it would make FA's jobs if they had to explain that this gentleman's cell phone is ok to use in flight, but this other passenger can't use his? It's a heck of a lot easier to say "no cell phones" and be done with it.


User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5453 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 13408 times:

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 17):
Private jet pax use all kinds of electronic devices at all sorts of altitudes,

The rule for cellphones applies to any aircraft, and it's an FCC law. If they're using 'all kinds' of devices, they're not using cellphones legally. They're also using broadband connections specifically designed for aircraft use.

Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineIaddca From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 13272 times:

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 20):
and it's an FCC law


the rule applies only on commercial planes, and was the result of lobbying by GTE and the airlines in the 90s when Airfone was released

to his credit, FCC chief Martin has sought to overturn this nonsensical rule since he took office

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 20):
The rule for cellphones applies to any aircraft

wrong, look it up


User currently offlineIaddca From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 13263 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 15):
It only takes one navigational glitch or avionics error to ruin everyone's day

Please explain how a cell phone interferes with the nav system or avionics.


User currently offlineIaddca From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 13256 times:

Quoting B777Neuss (Reply 12):
Do newer cell phones or electronic devices have different/no influence?

newer cell phones operate at higher frequencies, so theoretically less chance for interference, but really there was never an issue with older, 800 MHz phones


User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 13224 times:

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 22):
Please explain how a cell phone interferes with the nav system or avionics.

A cell phone is an unshielded radio transmitter.

Every radio transmitter influences every radio receiver within range - even those on different frequencies and different bands. This influence or interference is usually so miniscule that we do not notice.

The radios, FMS and other navigation receivers on aircraft operate on very low power so are more easily influenced than stronger devices receiving more powerful signals such as in your home.

Will every cell phone interfere with the navigation equipment on an aircraft? Yes in every case.

Will it be enough to be noticed, or dangerous? Almost always the answer is no.

But the crew has no way to tell what will happen today and what will happen tomorrow.

Brand new cell phones are sold everyday which do not work correctly because their frequencies, their power, their transmission as incorrect. You never know when/ if your cell phone will be the one to cause problems. You never know if your aircraft will be the one where a critical error/ failure will occur.


25 Iaddca : With VDL2 replacing ACARS, there's greater risk of interference from other aircraft while you're on the ground than from cell phone users on your own
26 Jetdeltamsy : That is not true. If a cellphone is within range of a tower, even 6 miles up, it gets reception. People use their cellphones in the lavatories all th
27 Adam T. : I can't remember exactly on what flight but I do remember hearing someone's cell phone go off in the middle. I want to say it was on a CO Express flig
28 Phoenixflyer : Wasn't there an episode of Mythbusters where they tested this? I seem to remember them testing it with a 737 and a Cessna or something close to that.
29 Baron52ta : A lot of more modern phones are worse as they offer GPS signals too and the GPS on the aircraft can get false readings due to echo which give a slight
30 Iaddca : LOL do you write copy for Dateline for one of those tv news shows where they try to scare people about everything? yet they have no problem with all
31 KhelmDTW : If you watch Mythbusters, you'll see it can effect unprotected Navigation devices, but they cannot test it in the air, and the Feds are too cheap to s
32 Ikramerica : Something tells me you work for a cell phone company, because your insistence that there is no possibility of any interference is laughable. First, w
33 Iaddca : the proof I've offered a million times is biz jets, where every electronic device gets used at every imaginable altitude and if you actually read wha
34 AerLingusA330 : The only way that cell phones can be dangerous are if a person were to throw them at someone. Any electronics for that matter. It's that simple.
35 LAXspotter : My friend's flight instructor told him, that cell phone bands are even on the same band of radio as Air traffic frequencies. The cell phone rule is th
36 Post contains links Aviacentre : Sarcasm like this can turn a thread into garbage. When we try to make this an educated discussion, comments like this really ruin it for everyone. Ho
37 RwSEA : I look at this way: tubes of toothpaste are banned but cell phones are a-ok. If cell phones were such a danger, they'd be banned. The fact that they a
38 Aveugle : I believe I saw that and they tested it on a gulfstream on the ground. My opinion is that since my cell phone has the power to affect my computer spe
39 Tdscanuck : It doesn't (in any meaningful way). It interferes with the signals the nav system and avioincs are trying to pick up. Since the avionics can't tell t
40 AirTranTUS : A better question would be how does a Gameboy interfere with an FMC? Now I have never seen the wiring, etc. for an FMC, but how would even the signal
41 2H4 : What does it matter? If they distract and confuse the pilots in any way, shape, or form (which, clearly, they do), they present an unacceptable and u
42 Bond007 : In understand it's any use on "airborne aircraft", and had little or nothing to do wirh Airfone, but disruption to ground services. Actualy, just for
43 Vinniewinnie : But why would Ryanair and others plan to allow mobile conversation on board if it was that unsafe?
44 Jamesjimlb : when i fly with my dad, and he has a new phone he turns on both of his phones and starts transferring the data, yet i believe he is in flight mode, bu
45 RFields5421 : Nope - I was part of an EMI testing team in the US Navy for a while - both shipboard and on aircraft. It was before cellphones - but any transmister
46 Post contains links Smokeyrosco : If It was such a real issue then how is the below possible, even Airbus have run tests and they have never caused problems. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi
47 Flug : If they were that dangerous, they wouldn't let them in the cabin.
48 PHKLM : I think an average of 10 to 20% of the people on board do not switch of their phone, some people forget to turn it of in the cabin, or have phones th
49 Tdscanuck : Capacitance fuel gaging systems (all aircraft except the 777) are phenomenally sensitive...a change of 1 pF will change the fuel indication in the co
50 FlyingAY : I don't know about the US systems, but most new phones here in Europe work with the standard GSM frequency of 900 MHz, higher GSM frequencies of 1800
51 Iaddca : don't take yourself so seriously ...and please don't post study data without checking who paid for it, that really sends a thread into the trash can
52 PHKLM : Well, this is a very common misconception. A phone will look for a network, but that simply means it "listens" to available networks on different fre
53 Smokeyrosco : yes but by that argument you will probably recieve a signal and your phone will respond to it at the most critical time which is during takeoff and l
54 Post contains links Chase : Another thing to note is harmonics. Something operating at, for instance, 440Mhz will interfere with other stuff running at exact doubles/halves of th
55 FlyingAY : Thanks for the clarification, the radio network is really not my expertise. But I would presume that we first lose the connection on the 1800 MHz ban
56 PHKLM : Yes, but this is normal. The antennas of base-stations are directed in line with the earth, not skywards. So the beam of the antenna is aimed at the
57 Mikoneill : For mobile phones on aircraft the main concern is the difficulty an aircraft full of mobiles (say 200-300 devices) would cause to the ground mobile ne
58 Grbld : Iaddca, I'm a 737NG pilot and I take great offense with your attitude. There have been documented incidents even at my airline in a 737NG where cellph
59 Jarvis78 : Whilst there is debate about the 'dangers' of mobile phone use on aircraft, and the possible interference they may or may not cause, I remember being
60 Smokeyrosco : Not saying I agree with it, I'm just making a point. So why would FR be allowing phones on aircraft when their entire fleet is 737NG's? I'm only aski
61 Post contains images Thesandbender : I just wanted to comment on some of the posts about "hearing the interference". In most cases this is not the cell phone interfering with the communic
62 PHKLM : So you acknowledge your airline is aware of the "fact" that terrorists can cause a serious harm to you and your passengers by taking a cellphone on b
63 Flanker : Its quite obvious on smaller GA aircraft. Whenever i dont turn off my cell or any pax with me i can hear interference i my headset. Ive flown many dif
64 PanAm1971 : Well... with almost all passangers using cell phones... and business class people needing to be in constant communication... I'd say it's up to the in
65 PanAm1971 : Wasn't there also a huge huge thread on this subject by a Turkish commercial pilot? Or am I dreaming?
66 PHKLM : If cell-phones would be so dangerous, don't you think the industry would have come up with more stringent rules in the past? Only one plane has to cr
67 Post contains links IAirAllie : Quoting BNinMSY (Reply 39): Not that I'm questioning that these could interfere with a flight operation, but I would like to know how .. that might sc
68 NW747-400 : As a pilot, I am often very annoyed when passengers leave their cell phones on and I have made several PA announcements about the issue. When the airc
69 PHKLM : Why aren't they banned??? And liquids that have never ever lead to any problem are! There are just too many myths about this cellphone thing. Then as
70 PanAm1971 : OK. I'll be the devil. I'll stipulate the above arguments are accrurate. None the less, cell phones are a critical part of our common infastructure. A
71 Mymiles2go : As others have mentioned, I'd bet 10-15 people on every domestic flight forgot to turn off thier cell phone (assuming an average 737). Probably even h
72 2H4 : Boy, talk about false pretenses... The "logic" you use in the first quote above is just as false as false can be. After all, up until September 10, 2
73 Flanker : I agree. Whether its a 744 or a 172 in a busy clas D, we dont need the added stress and workload.
74 IAirAllie : I disagree. It is not the business people who have an issue with cell phones. They are experienced travelers and are very good about turning them off
75 Boeingluvr : I know that even when flying a Cessna I've left my phone on and get no interference. My instructor used to take calls while we were flying... Never he
76 Scramjetter : I fly routinely in a little Cessna and hear cell phone signals over the headset all over the place. But it's nowhere near as loud as the radio antenna
77 Post contains images LimaNiner : Mythbusters is fun to watch, but I'd hardly base any important decisions on their "research". Correct! One specific problem is in the handoff rate (n
78 Ralgha : I witness cell phone interference frequently. In my airplane it's most commonly interference on the comm radio, sometimes so bad that we can not hear
79 2H4 : There we have it, folks. First-hand accounts of cell phone interference....not unlike the numerous examples I posted earlier. Cell phones cause inter
80 Mika : Nice respect for regulations and the crew working the aircraft there, way to go.. You should be barred at the gate as far as i'm concerned. Amen. Say
81 RFields5421 : I beg to disagree. Cell phones are an exceptional convenience - but not a critical component of our daily lives. Especially in developed nations with
82 Iaddca : Uh, no they don't. Same ILS, same GPS technology, same ARINC-standardized databuses. More proof that this is really about making unimportant airline
83 PHKLM : If you "professionals" are unable to hear radio communications due to cellphones, why don't you ask for a ban altogether? Why does your airline still
84 Post contains images 2H4 : Pilots have done their part. They've reported the incidents as they occur. Company policy changes are up to management, and legislation is up to the
85 Iaddca : you cite some unproven anecdotes from 10 years ago and then try to ram an opinion down everyone's throats, maybe if you could explain WHY there's a c
86 Mika : If cell phones would be completely banned on commercial flights, where would you in that case keep them? In today's age everyone has a cell phone, an
87 2H4 : Reply 58 and reply 78 in this thread are anecdotes that occurred much more recently than 10 years ago. More importantly, they are first-hand accounts
88 FlyboyOz : On Qantaslink 717-200 , when we almost landed on the Hobart's runway, we couldn't hear the mobile rings because we were at the back of the aircraft an
89 IAirAllie : Why did she answer it? Why didn't she just immediately shut it off when she realized it was on? Just because it rings does not mean you have to pick
90 OB1504 : Additionally, placing the cellphone in your checked baggage is a no-go, considering that most airlines advise passengers to not pack any valuable ele
91 RFields5421 : That isn't about telling people how to do their jobs - its about how to become a leader. Unfortunately, the vast majority of high dollar executives t
92 Trent900 : I personally have never had this problem. While flying PA-28's I have occasionally used and let someone else use their mobile. This was of course exp
93 PHKLM : [quote=Mika,reply=86]So what do you suggest?[/quote I suggest that we lift the cellphone ban and make planes resistant to interference. As simple as t
94 FlyingAY : You have spent the whole thread saying that the planes are resistant to interference, and now you suggest that we make the plane resistant to interfe
95 PHKLM : I am saying that planes are resistant to interference, or at least they ought to be. You have a point in saying phones are not dangerous but inconven
96 Seabosdca : So non-functional navigation instruments and unusable radios are a "minor inconvenience?" I sure don't want anyone with your attitude to safety on an
97 PHKLM : But why, oh why are so many phones allowed on during the flight? If they are really so dangerous as you describe, why are hundreds of phones that are
98 RFields5421 : Planes are as resistant as the current state of physics and consumer electronics allows. Every transmitter which sends a signal is received by every
99 RFields5421 : One other item What is not occuring is attempts by the cell phone manufacturers to make their instruments better, more precise and less susceptible to
100 JoeCanuck : As far as I know, cell phones haven't caused any tragedies...yet. Hopefully, any airline that allows cell phone use will lose a ton of business. Screa
101 SeaBosDca : The question is legitimate, and I think it tells us more about how regulations come into being than about the relative safety risk of cellphones and
102 Jamesbaldwyn : I had that when I left my mobile on on my flight, turns out I got a text message but it made alot of interference getting to me. I've been on some ai
103 Post contains images PHKLM : I can understand that, because people see other people using their phones, and will not understand it is on flight mode. A lot of people do not know
104 Mika : Yet you let your own convinience prevail over safety when you refuse to obey regulations and the instructions of the flight crew. In which way would
105 PHKLM : No. If the seat-belt sign is on, I do not stand up and walk around, even if I would very much like to do so. When the crew comes around to check weat
106 Mika : Have you ever had your phone out during a flight? I for one can say that during the times i've had (in flight mode) i was told to turn it off, and i'
107 PHKLM : Yes, only last week I flew DUS-FCO and FCO-DUS (I haven't updated my signature yet). On the way to Rome I was using my phone as a music player in fli
108 XJETFlyer : Ok here is what drives me nuts. I have a PPC 6700 Phone. For you that are not familiar with it, it has windows 5.0 and a full little key board. This p
109 Mika : It may be that that FA thought it was a regular MP3 player you were using, or it may be that she simply didnt care. I do agree that reinforcement of
110 Post contains images Scramjetter : So if it's in the baggage compartment do you just circle around until you run out of fuel? What airline do you fly for?
111 PHKLM : Good, I have been very stubborn in this discussion, but I fully agree that this is best outcome: the current rules are just not workable, or practica
112 NW747-400 : Like I said, its an annoyance rather than a safety of flight issue. It causes interference, period. Come fly with me one day and I will prove it. I d
113 Gh123 : I once checked in a bag with Virgin Blue in Sydney and then remembered that I had in fact left a phone ON in the bag. I went back to the desk and info
114 Jfidler : If having cellphones on during flight is so dangerous, why wouldn't a group of terrorists get on a plane with cellphones strapped to their chest, and
115 2H4 : It's not that cellphones are capable of bringing an airplane down in flames the instant they're turned on....it's that they present a risk that is co
116 Iaddca : which as I've said all along is the real issue, airline personnel want to feel more important than pax, and scaring people with made up rules is the
117 Post contains images 2H4 : Airline personnel want to feel more important than pax? Cite a source. Because without one, that's nothing more than a misguided opinion. As for your
118 PHKLM : I have been thinking about this; the majority of people here claim cellphones form at least some sort of risk for airplanes. If not a risk, they caus
119 Bluewave 707 : The Cingular/ATT GSM network, and the Nextel iDen handsets are notorious for causing interference when a call (or text msg) comes in. I work with 900M
120 Jfidler : I always follow the rules and turn off my cellphone while on an airplane. But I think the point of this discussion is to question why the rule exists
121 Post contains images JetJock22 : You OBVIOUSLY don't watch Mythbusters
122 IAirAllie : Hey fellow FA's give a shout out if you love making up rules so you can bully people!!!! Anyone? Bueller? Most of us hate the rule enforcement part o
123 Bond007 : LOL .... because it's evident from this thread that some of you ARE acting like 1st grade students, so should be treated like one. Hmm.... see below:
124 PHKLM : You're there for safety for g*d sake! I hope I am never on board of your airline.
125 Post contains links Mika : I respect the fact that we all can have different opinions about things and to a great part that is what makes discussing things worthwhile. As long a
126 Kanebear : After all the discussion above, how is it that you still hold this opinion? Blinkered determination that you're correct? The rules in place have zero
127 JoeCanuck : Before you read on, (if in fact you do), let me state that in the air, I believe that rules are rules and they should be followed. I do and I think we
128 Kanebear : The huge difference is that those EM sources are comparatively very distant and broadcast from facilities designed to focus the radiated energy in th
129 JoeCanuck : I'd be very interested in some actual comparative data. I imagine on takeoff and landing, in that vital transition phase, I bet planes are right in th
130 Post contains links Kanebear : I'm not an engineer but have a basic understanding. The relevant measurement is Power Density expressed in Watts per Square Meter (or mW/square cm is
131 AJ : "Please fasten your seat belts" Why? I've never been in a crash, I will not. "Please return you seat backs to the upright position and stow your tray
132 Spink : Any airplane containing flight critical instruments that can be interfered with by a cell phone should be grounded. Plain and simple. If a cellphone
133 Post contains images Skidmarks : I've not read all the comments in this thread but I felt I just had to add this annecdote. A couple of weeks ago I flew with Manx2 from Blackpool to t
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Plot To Shoot Down An El Al Flight Foiled posted Fri May 19 2006 17:27:29 by Pope
Qantas To Shut Down Australian posted Tue Apr 11 2006 21:41:41 by LY4XELD
Boeing On Track To Shut Down 767 posted Wed Feb 15 2006 20:57:43 by Jetjack74
LX 498 Downed By Cell Phone In 2000? posted Fri Dec 10 2004 14:50:55 by Dtwclipper
Using Cell Phones In Flight posted Thu Jul 1 2004 20:08:50 by Dan2002
Aces To Shut Down posted Wed Aug 20 2003 18:46:19 by Latinplane
Bucs Use Cell Phones In Flight.. posted Thu Jan 23 2003 08:41:46 by J_hallgren
IAH Latest To Shut Down Viewing Areas posted Sun Dec 22 2002 04:58:25 by Artsyman
UAL To Shut Down Avolar posted Sat Mar 23 2002 05:52:54 by DouglasDC8
Ford Plant At CLE To Shut Down? posted Fri Jan 11 2002 21:37:21 by N766UA