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When Will WN Take On MSP?  
User currently onlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2614 posts, RR: 9
Posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 7712 times:

Looking at a map of the US, it doesn't make sense that WN does not fly to MSP. I can see that it would take a commitment of a score or more of aircraft, but what is holding them back? Gates, delays, weather?

Looking at WN's operation, they seem to saturate a market and usually run lower load factors than the industry standard. Will they look to reduce frequency to improve load factors and increase yield? Such a move could free up the aircraft needed to pursue MSP.

One would think WN could easily make money in the following markets:

WN hub airports that provide multiple connection opportunities MDW, BWI, STL, PHX, LAS
WN hub airports that provide mostly O&D: OAK, LAX,
WN focus cities with connection/thru opportunities: MCI, ABQ
WN focus cities that provide mostly O&D: SAN, MCO, TPA, FLL, SEA

With the location of MSP, it would appear that WN would not be looking to provide much through traffic or connection via MSP.

126 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFutureSDPDcop From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1293 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 7709 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Thread starter):
but what is holding them back? Gates, delays, weather?

I think everyone will agree.....it's those planes with the pretty red tails.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22867 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7688 times:

Also, WN is not especially strong in the upper midwest apart from MDW. They typically don't open a station without at least 3 or 4 solid routes of fewer than 500 miles (PIT had 3, and that was probably pushing it). This is mainly for economic reasons, as WN needs to stimulate demand with low fares, and that's easier to do in shorter-haul markets. Yet that will even be hard at MDW, where fares are not especially high, and FL is already relatively entrenched on the route. Beyond that, where do they go? STL isn't especially attractive, nor are MCI or OMA. But those are the WN markets within that 500 mile range (IND is barely outside it, at 503 miles). So where does that leave WN?


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2663 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7685 times:

Simple: Northworst Airlines

But I think WN (or should I say Southbest) could serve MSP once the Humphrey Terminal is expanded. There are many cities that WN could fly to/from MSP.



It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7685 times:

ooooh yeah. I'm sure Northwest is looking for the 'Welcome' mat just about now.

User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7677 times:

How about ATL..that has to be the largest market not served by WN

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22867 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7665 times:

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 5):
How about ATL..that has to be the largest market not served by WN

See Reply 2, replace MDW with BNA, remove the comments on FL, and add the fact that WN isn't going to open a station just to fly to Florida (unlike some of its competitors). WN's relative weakness in the region is also a factor keeping them out of ATL.

However, at this time, the main reason WN cannot open ATL is a lack of available gates. When they get around to building the South terminal, it'll be interesting to see what WN does.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2663 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7641 times:

My family and I want to visit my aunt and uncle in SLC but fares on NW and DL are expensive. And we are definately not going to drive many hours from Minneapolis to Salt Lake City. If WN served MSP then my vacation to SLC would be more possible.


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7628 times:

I typically dont have a problem finding a good fare out of MSP, its usually on NW, of which I just recently got a multi city fare for $225 RT. If WN enters the market, I don't think that NW would be too worried they will probably price match if they had to, I was looking at fares a while back for a certain trip out of DEN and WN was by far the most expensive carrier. So once people realize that WN isn't all that they are cracked up to be its just going to be like DTW, minimal presense and effect if they ever did enter Minneapolis.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineWingnutMN From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 640 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7612 times:

If WN was to enter the MSP market, I believe SY would be more concerned about it than NW. WN could effectively destroy SY in MSP. Then, once that happens, NW would really take them on head-on. Also, I think that you would see alot more competition from FL in MSP if WN were to enter the MSP market. Most of the competition would come on the MSP-MDW run along with MSP-DEN (F9 would compete heavily) and MSP-LAS (US would be the heavy competitor here). I think the only routes that you would see NW get concerned on would be MSP-LIT, MSP-BWI and MSP-LAX. Albight alot of NW MSP-LAX route is for connections to either Asia or Hawaii.

WingnutMN



Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
User currently offlineAllegiantAir From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1733 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7612 times:

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 3):
But I think WN (or should I say Southbest) could serve MSP once the Humphrey Terminal is expanded

But remember, US + Express, AA + Connection, F9, AC Jazz and UA + Express will be moved over to the expanded HHH terminal which may or may not leave enough room for new carriers such as WN.



Live to Fly.
User currently offlinePITops From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1442 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7591 times:

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 5):
How about ATL..that has to be the largest market not served by WN

I don't ever see them going to ATL. DL and FL have that market pretty much saturated. Where could WN fly from there and make money?

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Thread starter):
WN hub airports that provide multiple connection opportunities MDW, BWI, STL, PHX, LAS
WN hub airports that provide mostly O&D: OAK, LAX,
WN focus cities with connection/thru opportunities: MCI, ABQ
WN focus cities that provide mostly O&D: SAN, MCO, TPA, FLL, SEA

WN doesn't consider any airport a "hub". They are all focus cities.



Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7586 times:

More than anything else, however, the issue is gate space. The Lindbergh terminal is almost maxed out, and NW would love to send every non-SkyTeam airline over to the smaller Hubert Humphrey Terminal. Plans are underway to expand and triple the size of the HHH Terminal, but that won't happen for quite a while.

Even when it does, WN doesn't enter a new station unless it has a certain number of gates, and at the moment, the allocation of gates may change depending on what the red tail dictates...er, "requests" from the MSP airport authority.  duck 

However, I was one of those people who didn't think that PHL, DEN, or SFO would ever be on Southwest's view, so anything is possible.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineCaspritz78 From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7573 times:

MSP is NW country. Anyway I really think SY is doing a good job to get some competition into MSP. I hope we will see more of them soon.

User currently offlineSNCntry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7530 times:

Quoting Caspritz78 (Reply 13):
MSP is NW country. Anyway I really think SY is doing a good job to get some competition into MSP. I hope we will see more of them soon.

Exactly.

The 12th of Never is when I heard WN will start serving MSP.



Long Live Memphis!
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4384 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7484 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 8):
typically dont have a problem finding a good fare out of MSP, its usually on NW, of which I just recently got a multi city fare for $225 RT

Where, MSP-MDW-ATL-MSP? Someplace NW actually has to compete? On routes where they have an LCC sure they are cheap, but they charge a ton to fly to a lot of other places (ala SLC).

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 8):
was looking at fares a while back for a certain trip out of DEN and WN was by far the most expensive carrier.

I bet you it was still relatively inexpensive and the reason it was cheap to begin with was because everyone else had to undercut WN.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineNorthwestEWR From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 419 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7470 times:

Quickly looking at MSP-SLC-MSP, Northwest wants $307 roundtrip.

That's not that bad at all, yeah it's not $80 roundtrip but it's reasonable. Every time I go anywhere it's at least $280 and usually $330+ out of EWR.



ARJ 319 320 333 717 733 735 73G 738 739 742 752 753 762 772 CRJ CR9 ER3 ERJ FRJ J31 J41 D9S D94 D95 M81 M82 M88
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26422 posts, RR: 76
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7460 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Thread starter):

Looking at WN's operation, they seem to saturate a market and usually run lower load factors than the industry standard.

Wrong

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Thread starter):
Will they look to reduce frequency to improve load factors and increase yield?

WN's yields are among the best in the industry, particularly system wide.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Thread starter):

WN hub airports

Which don't exist

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 5):
How about ATL..that has to be the largest market not served by WN

That would actually be New York City. ISP just doesn't count

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
WN's relative weakness in the region is also a factor keeping them out of ATL.

WN's relative weakness in what region? The South? You are wrong there. WN has the South well covered.

Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 14):


The 12th of Never is when I heard WN will start serving MSP.

That is what people said about DEN.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7447 times:

Gary Kelly's mantra seems to be "back to the future."

I say that because the decision to add shorter haul (SFO-LAX, DEN-ABQ, DEN-OKC) rather than long haul stuff is taking WN back to its roots and, by extension, ehat it does better than everyone else.

That being said, I think MSP and ATL will happen when WN figures out a way to do them from a secondary airport.

In the case of MSP I think it will be STP, and in the case of ATL I think it will be MGE.

It isn't the entrenched hub carrier that worries WN as much as it is operating out of an airport where the entrenched hub carrier yells "frog" and the airport management jumps. Let's face it, there is "office politics" going on between airlines and cities everywhere, even with WN and some of their larger stations.....but there are some airport facilities where you really can't tell who is really in charge of the airport facility.

Now....as far as a trip MSP-SLC is concerned....an advance purchase ticket for $300 is nice, but what if I need to go Tuesday of next week and come back two days later? NW offers me as lowest fare for that trip of....$1258 RT. And that ticket isn't even refundable. Geez. If you had a WN in that market, you'd probably see a walk up, fully refundable, unrestricted Y fare of maybe $259 each way. Less than half what NW wants for a nonrefundable seat. So yeah, there is still room for some competitive improvement.

Someone asked where WN could fly from ATL that they could make money....since DL and FL have that one sewn up. Denver had lots of service too, including low fare service, but that has not kept WN from carving themselves out a decent size chunk of some pretty good markets. I have no doubt that they could do it in Atlanta.

And I know they could do it in Atlanta if they were able to offer passengers the option of not having to deal with the monstrosity that is Hartsfield.


User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2663 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7427 times:

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 18):

Or maybe STC. Does STP have a runway long enough for a 737? And isn't that airport under sea level?



It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4659 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7427 times:

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 18):
in the case of ATL I think it will be MGE

good luck with that  Wink



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26422 posts, RR: 76
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7413 times:

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 19):
Does STP have a runway long enough for a 737?

More than enough.

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 19):
And isn't that airport under sea level?

No, but why?



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2663 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7382 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):

Wasn't there going to be a wall that would keep the water from flooding the airport?



It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently onlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2614 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7377 times:

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 19):
oes STP have a runway long enough for a 737? And isn't that airport under sea level?

STP is elevation 700 and approaches appear to be less hemmed in than than MDW. MDW's longest runway is about 30 feet longer than STP's.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Thread starter):
Will they look to reduce frequency to improve load factors and increase yield?

WN's yields are among the best in the industry, particularly system wide.

Tha t may be the case, but how does WN compare on similar stage lengths? It's kind of apples and oranges to compare a mainly short haul carrier to the legacies.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26422 posts, RR: 76
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7366 times:

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 22):

Wasn't there going to be a wall that would keep the water from flooding the airport?

Yes, but it is 700 feet above sea level. It happens to be right next to the Mississippi River.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 23):
MDW's longest runway is about 30 feet longer than STP's.

Nope, it is actually nearly 200 feet shorter.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 23):

Tha t may be the case, but how does WN compare on similar stage lengths?

Favorably.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 SNCntry32 : If anything, they will go to a secondary airport like STP like people have said. Ill believe WN is coming to MSP when I see it... I don't see it happ
26 MD90fan : Not really. Few routes exist that SY flies that WN would probably fly too (MSP-Washington D.C, Bay Area, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Orlando, Tampa, etc)
27 Cjpark : What is holding WN back from MSP? They do not want to have to compete with NW on equal terms at the same airport.
28 WingnutMN : I believe the MAC has some agreement or understanding that STP will NOT be used for regular air carrier service. The only terminal on the field is the
29 Lexy : You have totally left out BNA in this equation and I think that's stupid. MSP is one of the top destinations from BNA and if WN flew it, they would c
30 KarlB737 : Lets see.....hmmm........how many years has WN been flying out of Northwest country at DTW. Has that been overlooked?
31 Coronado : MSP is not a far out airport--straight line it is only about 8 miles to STP or 11 miles by road. MSP is not congested. It is running about 10-% less f
32 NWA320 : Northwest would kill them. They killed out Vanguard (used to fly them to Kansas City to visit family all the time for only $50!), they killed out Sun
33 MMEPHX : According to airnav.com 13C/31C at MDW is 6522' as the longest runway. Runway 14/32 at St Paul Downtown (Holman) is 6491' long.....just 31' differenc
34 Iowaman : WN is a much larger airline than Vanguard was and has much larger cash reserves. There is no doubt in my mind WN could have a decent sized operation
35 N353SK : STP has a runway that's 6000ish feet. Not under sea level, but it's definitely under the "mississippi river level" after heavy rains. Plus, I'm not s
36 PanAm747 : Let me also point out that SY's market is mostly Minnesotans. Most of their flights are not really timed for connections or decent arrival times at MS
37 AlexPorter : This is one of the more combative posts I've seen in a while that didn't really provide a "why" to the statements it was making. They do run on lower
38 737tanker : I think you better have a talk with Gary Kelly, the CEO of WN. I have heard him talking to a group of WN employees and he said that WN is not in the
39 Bobnwa : Alot of flights do not make a hub. Having banks of flights that cross feed each other make a hub. Southwest does not schedule its flights to cross co
40 Presidential : I am sure that this has nothing to do with the fact that NWA signed a sweetheart agreement with the then commissioner of Wayne County (McNamara .. ge
41 ModernArt : Having banks is not at all necessary to have a hub. That just legacies way of doing things - a way that has lost them tens of billions of dollars. A
42 Bobnwa : As I pointed out, Southwest does not schedule its flights at intermediate points to make transitions from origin to destination. thus, no hub. Do you
43 SLCUT2777 : WN doesn't do well at SEA and won't expand service there to several potentially lucrative city pairs due to the costs at SEA-TAC. You could say they
44 ModernArt : Sure, point-to-point is their bread and butter. And that connections are a happy by product of their system. However, the schedule gurus in Dallas ar
45 Bobnwa : For that reason, Delta could call it a hub, if they schedule flights that way. (small one). But if you don't schedule flights to cross feed, it is no
46 NWA320 : Yes, that's true, flying sun country I've noticed mostly leisure travelers. Yes, they would. And, us Minnesotans would love to fly WN! Especially sin
47 TxAgKuwait : I wanted to disagree with the poster who claimed that WN doesn't "do many high O&D markets in and out of SLC because of competition from DL." In the
48 Airbusaddict : Here is what would happen in my opinion: If Southwest EVER started service to MSP, let me just make a few examples: If Southwest starts an Indianapoli
49 Burnsie28 : Well Northwest paid for the terminal that McNamara decided to name after himself. Northwest doesn't recognize it as the McNamara terminal, rather the
50 Cjpark : No not overlooked but ignored only six non stop cities served by Southwest at DTW hardly counts as serious competition to NWA.
51 Cloudy : That would have been true ten years ago but not today. By that definition, Delta doesn't have a hub at ATL because it is "de peaked" - in other words
52 Cubsrule : ...where FL is barely holding on. I don't think there's room for another LCC (of course, after FL drops the route, who knows?) WN has one large stati
53 Lexy : This is the one and only true problem with WN service, and it's the same ALL across the board.....It gets you nowhere outside of domestic destinations
54 TxAgKuwait : You know, if I didn't have to keep correcting folks' false statements I could get some yard work done. Let's see....is Tampa in the south? According
55 Tango-Bravo : None other than Gary Kelly has stated in the recent past that 80% of Southwest's pax travel non-stop from origin point to their destination.
56 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : Which is exactly my point. SAN is one that WN could come in and make larger inroads. They might hold the lead with PDX, but DL has upped the anti by
57 TxAgKuwait : Well, first of all, let me say that I doubt that WN controls a mere 14 or 15% of the SLC market if we are talking about O&D traffic. Let's say I am f
58 CALPSAFltSkeds : So NW is the home town airline and you say they will drive WN out. Let's see , when has that happened before? MDW, has UA or AA challenged WN at MDW
59 CALPSAFltSkeds : ATL is to be defended by DL against WN. ATL already has a competitor in AirTran. Why does a city like MSP have to have one carrier? Where else in the
60 Airbusaddict : How about this: They stay out of MSP, and add: FSD-DEN FSD-MDW FSD-IAD :P Lol I totally wish...
61 SNCntry32 : How about WN just stays away from MSP for the time being? SY is plenty of competition for right now. They know their place in the market here, and I
62 WesternA318 : And thats not bad coming out of EWR!!
63 TxAgKuwait : Let's look at existing traffic in/out of MSP for a moment. These are all the markets which generate at least 200 psgrs perz day. Data is from Q1 2007:
64 Post contains images KaiGywer : There's also that little company with shiny aluminum jets
65 Af773atmsp : Why would WN try MSP-DEN? SY just stopped that route because of competition from NW, UA, and F9. And aren't there enough airlines doing MSP-MDW/ORD?
66 Txagkuwait : Denver to Chicago, Denver to Las Vegas, Denver to Phoenix, and Denver to Salt Lake City were all markets with plenty of existing service.....at least
67 Post contains images Cubsrule : Had you bothered to read my original post, you'd have seen the following statement. "WN isn't going to open a station just to fly to Florida, unlike
68 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : Will any airline move into MSP with all the "awesome" publicity the airport has been receiving recently thanks to Senator Craig? With fuel prices wher
69 N1120A : Sure, but it isn't there to serve New York How was it combative? Yes, they do run some low load factors, but often times it is either frequency based
70 Burnsie28 : But keep in mind that the airports they serve in both those cities are secondary airports.
71 TxAgKuwait : Yes indeed, and the carry roughly 2/3rds of all the folks travelling between those two cities while using the "secondary" airport. And I suppose we c
72 Cubsrule : Right you are, and I suspect WN will be back up to 60-65 departures before we know it. However, the day is not yet here (nor, for that matter, is the
73 Cjpark : Ding! And that folks is why Southest will not serve MSP. No secondary airport they can seize. And FYI, The Wright Amendment did not keep Southwest fr
74 Cubsrule : Huh... JAX RDU PIT PHL ALB BUF CLE CMH IND SDF BNA BHM JAN MSY LIT STL I could go on... What do these have in common? That's right...
75 Cjpark : Lets see they are all communities that have not been forced to accept Southwest at a secondary airport.[Edited 2007-09-04 02:44:13]
76 Cubsrule : I don't understand your point. WN has no problem with primary airports in general these days. They've proven that time and time again. What are you t
77 TxAgKuwait : What CJ is trying to say, I think, is that he doesn't believe in a free and unfettered market, devoid of government interference. For whatever reason
78 Cjpark : Aggie, Do you have your own personal highway to and from your home?
79 Azjubilee : It amazes me to see the average fares posted in reply #63 and still read about how folks in the MSP area feel held hostage. As Burnsie28 has said, the
80 Cubsrule : I'm still curious what you meant above (when you and Aggie get done attacking each other).
81 TxAgKuwait : I do not have a highway, but I do have my own 1300' long road from the nearest public thoroughfare (US Highway 183) to my house. But that is neither
82 SY738fan : "Alleged" high fares? According to the DOT's office of Aviation Analysis (http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/domfares/web071.pdf), MSP was the 11th mos
83 Cubsrule : Why do you assume that WN would change this? Despite the large presence of FL at ATL, surely much more than WN would have at MSP, the average fare pr
84 SY738fan : Sorry, I don't recall saying that it necessarily would...
85 Azjubilee : SY - but that's the whole premise for having WN at MSP, to lower fares, at least that's what people think. Why else would someone want them in MSP? If
86 Floorrunner : Good customer service!!!
87 Lexy : It wasn't too long ago that a rep. for WN called the folks at MQY just a few miles south of BNA and asked them if they would be willing to let WN fly
88 SY738fan : My point wasn't to argue that WN (or any single LCC) is a cure-all for markets with higher than average fares - it isn't. That said, it is fairly well
89 Iowaman : More than likely so. In fact, I can pretty much guarantee it. I can also bet that it would bring down fares to other cities such as MHT, ISP, PVD, PI
90 Cjpark : I am pleasantly surprised that you do not have your own highway. I would have thought that with your connections to Southwest your feelings of entitl
91 Iowaman : Footing the bill? WN makes a HUGE economic impact on the city of Dallas.
92 Post contains images SY738fan : That's what I meant to say - I misspoke!!!
93 Azjubilee : No, I priced the same dates at the same time for both itineraries about 3 weeks out. NWA was less thank $300 and Southwest was over $500. Southwest is
94 PSU.DTW.SCE : The reason why MSP is not a high priority right now for WN is that there is currently very little that WN could bring to the table from what is curren
95 Iowaman : A ton of LCC connecting service MSP-MDW-XXX, lower BWI fares, lower fares on some shorter flights such as STL and MCI, offer a ton of connecting thru
96 Azjubilee : Dude... my comparisons between the trip on NWA and the trip on Southwest was back in August. I priced all the airlines out of MSP and out of curiosity
97 PSU.DTW.SCE : As you say, CONNECTING....doesn't help those who want nonstops. Oh and those very same connecting opportunities exist on AA/UA via ORD, FL/UA via DEN
98 Iowaman : When do you want a price? Even on this Friday night its still under $500 R/T MDW-LAX with a Sunday night return. It brings down the price of other co
99 KcrwFlyer : Dont be so sure of that. In many cases, if a business market exists, an airline wont lower its nonstop flight to compete with connecting prices on ot
100 ModernArt : Please name one - just one (other than Love - which doesn't apply either) - formerly un-needed airfield that has now been forced to remain open (and
101 Cubsrule : No, they aren't. But they didn't exactly take DL's fare premium away, and again, they are far larger in ATL than WN would be in MSP even 10-20 years
102 KcrwFlyer : Compare the amount of O&D traffic to and from ATL to that of MSP. That helps to keep the premium up for DL.
103 Cjpark : Don't confuse the need for General Aviation Airports with the need for Aiports designed and built for Airline service. DAL HOU MDW
104 Cubsrule : MDW would look a lot different without WN, but it wouldn't be closed. ORD cannot handle the Chicago region's air travel demands on its own. We can de
105 ScottB : Bzzzzzt. Wrong, as usual. The City of Houston/Houston Airport System has been extremely pleased with Southwest's presence at HOU. The city's master p
106 Cubsrule : I'm not so sure that would work, at least with respect to Chicago. FL (which has a slightly higher CASM than WN but also has a J class cabin, which l
107 ScottB : With all due respect, FL's business class cabin doesn't earn them a revenue premium on the routes where they compete head-to-head with WN. On every n
108 DCA-ROCguy : Four daily round-trips also aren't enough to be competitive in a dense market like MDW-MSP when all the other competitors are offering at least twice
109 Post contains links Cjpark : Wrong? http://www.fly2houston.com/iahHistory By the early 1960's the need for an air transportation alternative to Hobby Airport was very clear to ma
110 ModernArt : Uh, Southwest was not flying when Intercontinental opened. Hobby was still open for business, with a mostly disused terminal. I can't recall the City
111 Cjpark : If you had checked the link you would have found that Southwest transferred from IAH to Hobby in 1972. Later they restarted some service at IAH not s
112 TxAgKuwait : Southwest did not restart IAH service because Houston was "throwing a fit." Southwest went back to IAH because the growth of Houston's northern subur
113 ScottB : Seems to me it would have been tough for Southwest to have "stayed at Hobby" in 1969 when they didn't start flying until 1971. If memory serves, they
114 Cubsrule : Every one of those routes is to Florida... hardly similar to CHI-MSP. From BWI, FL flies nonstop to SEA DFW MKE DAY ATL ROC BOS PWM TPA RSW SRQ MCO F
115 ScottB : The routes to Florida are the only ones where they directly compete. Sure, you can argue that FL gets a slightly higher yield (about 12% higher) for
116 Cubsrule : So is your point that on business routes, FL DOES get a fare premium? I'm not seeing where you're going.
117 ScottB : Nope. They do get a fare premium on the somewhat comparable routes they fly, but its an apples-to-oranges comparison since BOS isn't MHT/PVD and ROC
118 Cubsrule : ...at significantly lower fares than what NW charges and at significantly higher costs. Seems like a recipe for disaster.
119 ScottB : There's a difference between dumping cheap connecting fares to Florida and moderately-priced fares to business markets. As an example, WN's walk-up B
120 Cubsrule : Sure, but since when has WN opened a station based on connection opportunities?
121 ScottB : A hypothetical MSP station wouldn't be based on connecting passengers. Again: WN would have: * Better O&D traffic due to frequent flyer loyalty, coac
122 Cubsrule : Correct, but WN needs at least 3-4 good O&D routes to make a station work. Most of the discussion above has centered on Chicago being one of "the" ro
123 AsstChiefMark : EAU would be more than happy to see WN service.
124 Post contains links Cjpark : So just like Love Field other airlines operated MX bases at the airport…hmm. They are there so we can be there also. Can you name any city that has
125 ScottB : You really think FL would keep MDW-MSP if WN entered? They dropped BWI-DTW like a bad habit when WN announced that route. MDW-MSP would be somewhere
126 Cubsrule : Each of those is a significantly longer stage length than routes with which WN likes to open stations. I see no reason they'd make an exception at MS
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