CALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2207 posts, RR: 7 Posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5861 times:
Looking at a map of the US, it doesn't make sense that WN does not fly to MSP. I can see that it would take a commitment of a score or more of aircraft, but what is holding them back? Gates, delays, weather?
Looking at WN's operation, they seem to saturate a market and usually run lower load factors than the industry standard. Will they look to reduce frequency to improve load factors and increase yield? Such a move could free up the aircraft needed to pursue MSP.
One would think WN could easily make money in the following markets:
WN hub airports that provide multiple connection opportunities MDW, BWI, STL, PHX, LAS
WN hub airports that provide mostly O&D: OAK, LAX,
WN focus cities with connection/thru opportunities: MCI, ABQ
WN focus cities that provide mostly O&D: SAN, MCO, TPA, FLL, SEA
With the location of MSP, it would appear that WN would not be looking to provide much through traffic or connection via MSP.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21244 posts, RR: 19 Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5837 times:
Also, WN is not especially strong in the upper midwest apart from MDW. They typically don't open a station without at least 3 or 4 solid routes of fewer than 500 miles (PIT had 3, and that was probably pushing it). This is mainly for economic reasons, as WN needs to stimulate demand with low fares, and that's easier to do in shorter-haul markets. Yet that will even be hard at MDW, where fares are not especially high, and FL is already relatively entrenched on the route. Beyond that, where do they go? STL isn't especially attractive, nor are MCI or OMA. But those are the WN markets within that 500 mile range (IND is barely outside it, at 503 miles). So where does that leave WN?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21244 posts, RR: 19 Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5814 times:
Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 5): How about ATL..that has to be the largest market not served by WN
See Reply 2, replace MDW with BNA, remove the comments on FL, and add the fact that WN isn't going to open a station just to fly to Florida (unlike some of its competitors). WN's relative weakness in the region is also a factor keeping them out of ATL.
However, at this time, the main reason WN cannot open ATL is a lack of available gates. When they get around to building the South terminal, it'll be interesting to see what WN does.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
Af773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2578 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5790 times:
My family and I want to visit my aunt and uncle in SLC but fares on NW and DL are expensive. And we are definately not going to drive many hours from Minneapolis to Salt Lake City. If WN served MSP then my vacation to SLC would be more possible.
Burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7411 posts, RR: 9 Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5777 times:
I typically dont have a problem finding a good fare out of MSP, its usually on NW, of which I just recently got a multi city fare for $225 RT. If WN enters the market, I don't think that NW would be too worried they will probably price match if they had to, I was looking at fares a while back for a certain trip out of DEN and WN was by far the most expensive carrier. So once people realize that WN isn't all that they are cracked up to be its just going to be like DTW, minimal presense and effect if they ever did enter Minneapolis.
"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
WingnutMN From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 588 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5761 times:
If WN was to enter the MSP market, I believe SY would be more concerned about it than NW. WN could effectively destroy SY in MSP. Then, once that happens, NW would really take them on head-on. Also, I think that you would see alot more competition from FL in MSP if WN were to enter the MSP market. Most of the competition would come on the MSP-MDW run along with MSP-DEN (F9 would compete heavily) and MSP-LAS (US would be the heavy competitor here). I think the only routes that you would see NW get concerned on would be MSP-LIT, MSP-BWI and MSP-LAX. Albight alot of NW MSP-LAX route is for connections to either Asia or Hawaii.
Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
PanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 10 Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5735 times:
More than anything else, however, the issue is gate space. The Lindbergh terminal is almost maxed out, and NW would love to send every non-SkyTeam airline over to the smaller Hubert Humphrey Terminal. Plans are underway to expand and triple the size of the HHH Terminal, but that won't happen for quite a while.
Even when it does, WN doesn't enter a new station unless it has a certain number of gates, and at the moment, the allocation of gates may change depending on what the red tail dictates...er, "requests" from the MSP airport authority.
However, I was one of those people who didn't think that PHL, DEN, or SFO would ever be on Southwest's view, so anything is possible.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
TxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 48 Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5596 times:
Gary Kelly's mantra seems to be "back to the future."
I say that because the decision to add shorter haul (SFO-LAX, DEN-ABQ, DEN-OKC) rather than long haul stuff is taking WN back to its roots and, by extension, ehat it does better than everyone else.
That being said, I think MSP and ATL will happen when WN figures out a way to do them from a secondary airport.
In the case of MSP I think it will be STP, and in the case of ATL I think it will be MGE.
It isn't the entrenched hub carrier that worries WN as much as it is operating out of an airport where the entrenched hub carrier yells "frog" and the airport management jumps. Let's face it, there is "office politics" going on between airlines and cities everywhere, even with WN and some of their larger stations.....but there are some airport facilities where you really can't tell who is really in charge of the airport facility.
Now....as far as a trip MSP-SLC is concerned....an advance purchase ticket for $300 is nice, but what if I need to go Tuesday of next week and come back two days later? NW offers me as lowest fare for that trip of....$1258 RT. And that ticket isn't even refundable. Geez. If you had a WN in that market, you'd probably see a walk up, fully refundable, unrestricted Y fare of maybe $259 each way. Less than half what NW wants for a nonrefundable seat. So yeah, there is still room for some competitive improvement.
Someone asked where WN could fly from ATL that they could make money....since DL and FL have that one sewn up. Denver had lots of service too, including low fare service, but that has not kept WN from carving themselves out a decent size chunk of some pretty good markets. I have no doubt that they could do it in Atlanta.
And I know they could do it in Atlanta if they were able to offer passengers the option of not having to deal with the monstrosity that is Hartsfield.