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Performance Of HAM And TXL To NYC Flights?  
User currently offlinePA101 From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 491 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3028 times:

Hi everybody,

I am curious, how the performance of COs flights from TXL and HAM to EWR, DLs TXL-JFK and EKs HAM-JFK have been lately.

They have all been around for quite some time by now (ok, EK not that long), any many people here had doubts that they'd last long.

Thanks!
PA101

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDZ09 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2824 times:

Flew 3 times to Ham and once to DXB via Ham in late july and august with EK. All flights were at least 60 to 70% full with one JFK-Ham segment completely full. They're flying A340-500.

User currently offlinePA101 From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2757 times:

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 1):

I flew HAM-JFK back in March (it was still the 77W), and both flights were completely sold out. However, now that EK has downgraded to an A345 (actually, it's an upgrade in matter of comfort), I was wondering whether they'd be making money on that flight. Same question applies to COs flights to HAM and TXL, as well as DLs TXL-service. I sure would love to see them stick around. It's been quite some time where HAM and TXL had no USA-flights at all.


User currently offlineDZ09 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2731 times:

Quoting PA101 (Reply 2):
I flew HAM-JFK back in March (it was still the 77W), and both flights were completely sold out. However, now that EK has downgraded to an A345 (actually, it's an upgrade in matter of comfort), I was wondering whether they'd be making money on that flight. Same question applies to COs flights to HAM and TXL, as well as DLs TXL-service. I sure would love to see them stick around. It's been quite some time where HAM and TXL had no USA-flights at all.

I hope they're making money on that route and hope they get more routes to the US via europe. Ham is such a convenient stop on such a long flight to DXB, and you can't beat the service.


User currently offlinePA101 From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2727 times:

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 3):

You are more than right about that one. Getting to fly EK beats almost everybody else!


User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2683 times:

Our flights are doing well. I work these quite regularly and people really enjoy the non-stop, as opposed to a connection.


You can't cure stupid
User currently offlinePA101 From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2659 times:

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 5):

Great news! Thanks for your info!


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2536 times:

DOT statistics show that the the CO and DL routes are not the strongest performers. CO and DL do have fairly comparable performance adjusted for DL's larger aircraft. Don't know about EK's performance because they don't have to report to the DOT but from what I've heard they discount heavily. Germany is a tough market for carriers that are not allied with LH.

User currently offlinePA101 From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2470 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 7):

Thanks for the info. Do you have a link to DOT statistics? I figuered, they would probably not be strong performers, however, I'm wondering, if they are strong enough for DL and CO to make money with them.

With EK, it's hard to say. The flights to JFK seem to be quite popular, however, you are right, they start with fares of EUR 359,00 inkluding tax (approx. $ 450.00) for the roundtrip (according to their website, it's for departures between mid October and mid December). I wonder, if it's due to lack of demand in general, or just a matter of filling up the remaining seats.


User currently offlineLHUSA From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 560 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2442 times:

Many of my NY-based colleagues often non-rev on EK JFK-HAM because the flights are typically pretty open and they're finally destination is HAM. In June, a group of 4 of them went and were all able to get business class in both directions. They said that C-class was only about 40% on the outbound and about 50% on the return. Economy was roughly the same. Of course, you can't judge a routes success by only two days, but I figured I would share their experience.

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2386 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Some info:

DL JFK-TXL

Jan/07 - Cargo: 158t - Pax: 2726
Feb/07 - Cargo: 117t - Pax: 2267

DL TXL-JFK

Jan/07 - Cargo: 168t - Pax: 2926
Feb/07 - Cargo: 186t - Pax: 2718

CO EWR-HAM

Jan/07 - Cargo: 8t - Pax: 1969
Feb/07 - Cargo: 9t - Pax: 1765

CO HAM-EWR

Jan/07 - Cargo: 0 - Pax: 2436
Feb/07 - Cargo: 0t - Pax: 2128

EK HAM-JFK

Feb/07 - Cargo: 0 - Pax: 849

EK JFK-HAM

Feb/07 - Cargo: 0 - Pax: 1543

Only the two first months of the year are available on DOT.

Felipe

[Edited 2007-09-03 07:34:06]


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2248 times:

Quoting PA101 (Reply 8):
Thanks for the info. Do you have a link to DOT statistics? I figuered, they would probably not be strong performers, however, I'm wondering, if they are strong enough for DL and CO to make money with them.

DOT statistics are public but the raw info is not terribly useful. It takes manipulating the data to come up with meaningful conclusions which a number of proprietary programs do. Here is the link to DOT data.

http://www.transtats.bts.gov/Tables....riers&DB_Short_Name=Air%20Carriers

It is likely that CO and DL make money but it is at the lower end of profitability. If you remember, CO and DL were both rumored to be starting TXL service. DL flew it as an extension of the Pan Am acquisitions (TXL was a large and important station for PA). DL dropped it post 9/11 but jumped back in when CO started hinting that they would start it. My guess is that the market is not really big enough for CO and DL to both make adequate financial returns but neither will blink at this point.

CO and DL seem to be "marking their territory" from NYC and while they have a number of larger, common destinations they are not directly competing on the smaller destinations. DL does not appear to be interested in duplicating all of CO's seondary destinations in Britain while DL apparently also wants to make as big of a splash in Africa and the Middle East before CO is able to add any new capacity. AA and CO both seem to be going after some of DL's traditionlly strong markets in Southern Europe. CO is likely to use most of its 787s to expand beyond the range of DL's 767s.


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