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WOW-Continental And Southwest August Traffic  
User currently offlineN471WN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1603 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6553 times:
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Continental just reported that their Revenue Passenger Miles (RPM's) for August were up 15.1% with a load factor of 85.3% and SWA reported their similar numbers for August were RPM'S up 12.1% and load factor up nearly 3 points to 80%. It is so interesting to see how differently these two carriers are approaching the market form the the "we will keep shrinking" airlines--especially American and Northwest.

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6335 times:

Great to see revenues rising, perhaps profitability will return for more airlines. Although the airline's profit is my loss...I'm already looking at paying twice as much to go on vacation for Christmas this year than last year.
WN at an 80% LF with revenues up 12% will probably make some good money this quarter.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7768 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6225 times:

CO's overall RPM's were up 8.1% system-wide, not 15%.
Trans-Atlantic RPM's were up 15.2%

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070904/latu164.html?.v=9

An 88% domestic load factor is insane. That is essentially every flight being full.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21582 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6180 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 2):
An 88% domestic load factor is insane. That is essentially every flight being full.

yep, hard to get seats, hard to get seats at a reasonable price (not cheap) and no chance for upgrades.

they need more planes...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAnalog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6180 times:

Note that the mainline number of non-completed R.P. miles (100% - completion factor) roughly DOUBLED from 4 out of 1000 to 8 out of 1000.

User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2725 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6171 times:

Continental Airlines is very strapped for lift right now.

User currently offlineN471WN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1603 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6158 times:
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I just re-read the news release on Investor.com and it used the number 15.2 in conjunction with Continental's RPM's but 8.1% seems more reasonable so I do not doubt you as I just reported what I saw......sorry about that but in any case it is so nice to see airlines that want to grow rather than take the easy way out and shrink .

User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5527 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6158 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 2):
An 88% domestic load factor is insane. That is essentially every flight being full.

Tell me. Commuting has been interesting. Makes for longer days.

Glad to see, though, I am all about job security (as much as the airline industry can provide).



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7768 posts, RR: 27
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5948 times:

Quoting N471WN (Reply 6):
sorry about that but in any case it is so nice to see airlines that want to grow rather than take the easy way out and shrink .

In regards to other airlines shrinking rather than growing, I think that there is more to the story than just that. Each airline is at a different point in their growth curve. CO & DL are growing by redeploying their assets. You can argue that the NYC market and the mega-O&D market that is available is what has driven most of that growth. Additionally is the explosive growth into second-tier international markets that wasn't possible a few years back - whether due to aircraft or political reasons.

Airlines like NW don't have such easy opportunities available to grow, based upon the strengths in their route network at this point (DTW & MSP are not attractive for second tier international markets). UA is limited by aircraft & ORD constraints . AA on the other hand is simply limited by the number of aircraft available and a number of uncertainities in the short term.

Its easy to cheer CO's growth right now, but look how far down they cut a few years back - based on the sheer number of routes they transitioned from mainline to RJ's domestically. Even now only are they slowly building some of that back. Organic domestic growth has been very limited at best.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 7):
Tell me. Commuting has been interesting. Makes for longer days.

Yes, that 88% LF is bad news for commuters, non-rev'ers, and customer mis-connections. Particularly in a delay-prone location like EWR. That 88% while showing CO (and the other airlines too had extremely high LF's over the summer) also indicates how tight the line is between operating efficiently and being unprepared to handle irregular operations.


User currently offlineAnalog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5897 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):

yep, hard to get seats, hard to get seats at a reasonable price (not cheap) and no chance for upgrades.

It sucks when you want to buy a last minute Y fare and there are no F seats to Y-up into.


User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5527 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5888 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 8):
That 88% while showing CO (and the other airlines too had extremely high LF's over the summer) also indicates how tight the line is between operating efficiently and being unprepared to handle irregular operations.

Not necessarily. While we do have a huge hub in EWR, we are also not limited to that hub. We have crews all over and are able to reroute them, as well as the aircraft, for irregular operations.

We have plans for when irregular operations impact our hubs (and other cities). We are rarely unprepared. For one instance, having a hub in a weather prone area, we are quick to make sure the operation runs as smoothly as possible during bad/severe weather.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineN471WN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1603 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5797 times:
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PSU.DTW.SCE writes : "AA on the other hand is simply limited by the number of aircraft available......"

Not true as they have knowingly and with malice and forethought elected to park perfectly serviceavble MD-80's in the desert and sell hightly sought after 757's to Delta. They cannot argue limited capacity when they elected to limit it on the notion that AA flyers will put up with load factors in the high 80's......an unwise assumption IMHO.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21582 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5698 times:

Quoting Analog (Reply 9):
It sucks when you want to buy a last minute Y fare and there are no F seats to Y-up into.

Heck, a week out there are no Y-up seats on transcons and many IAH flights to major cities. Which of course, is boo hoo for elites (it's a privilege, not a right) but it's still tough to find any this summer.

CO has a lot of elites at this point. Maybe they have to start taking away the online ticket purchase elite bonus for deep discount Y seats, to thin out the herd. Of course, it would likely thin me out of the herd, too...  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5674 times:

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 10):
We have plans for when irregular operations impact our hubs (and other cities). We are rarely unprepared. For one instance, having a hub in a weather prone area, we are quick to make sure the operation runs as smoothly as possible during bad/severe weather.

As a very frequent CO traveler I'd have to completely agree with the above statement, CO recovers from irregular hub impacts very very quickly and fast in almost every case. WORK HARD, FLY RIGHT!  bigthumbsup 

Quoting Analog (Reply 9):
It sucks when you want to buy a last minute Y fare and there are no F seats to Y-up into.

I have been quite lucky so far (knock on wood) even from IAH, but the closest ticket I normally buy to travel date is about a week out so that may be a reason for my luck.

Keep packing them in CO! and glad to have had alot of travel to be a part in your August traffic.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21582 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5590 times:

BTW - now that it's september, loads are down. There are last minute $250 R/T fares on ALL LAX-EWR-LAX transcons this weekend (travel saturday, return monday/tuesday). But all summer, my weekend webfare emails out of LAX would read "we are sorry, there are no deals for you this week" or something like that.

So, August was a big month, but now it's back to "normal."



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3432 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5508 times:

Quoting N471WN (Reply 11):
Not true as they have knowingly and with malice and forethought elected to park perfectly serviceavble MD-80's in the desert and sell hightly sought after 757's to Delta

for good reason. Capacity glut was bleeding them dry, so backing down and converting assets to cash at a time when those assets are a high value point... is only smart.

MD80's no matter how well looked after are expensive to run. More so if you have lots of versions with commonality issues. Even better by running out some of the oldest now, they can save a rarer sub-type incase they need capacity again, or to replace the remains of the oldest MD-80 fleet subtype as its going out. From what I understand they were properly mothballed, and not just dumped for eventual scrapping.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5373 times:

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 5):
Continental Airlines is very strapped for lift right now.

They have plenty of 737s on order (plus 92 options), including 737-900ERs of which they are taking delivery of over a dozen in 2008.

Also in 2008 CO starts deploying Q-400s at EWR to replace ERJs on short haul (less than 500 mi) routes, it's an increase of 24-39 seats per flight vs an ERJ-135/145. Eventually the Q-400s will also deploy out of CLE and IAH.

[Edited 2007-09-06 03:56:42]


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21582 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5351 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 16):
They have plenty of 737s on order (plus 92 options), including 737-900ERs of which they are taking delivery of over a dozen in 2008.

But this summer, they were a bit short, and they will be retiring some old classics next year as new jets arrive, so it won't get that much better at first. 2009 will be good as 787-8s start arriving, trickling down to free up more lift as well.

This summer's load factors do indicate they need about 5% more lift, minimum, to be able to fill demand during peak travel periods. Otherwise, they risk losing customers. I, for example, flew other carriers this summer because getting a seat on CO was tough. This is something they don't want, a 5 year elite member looking elsewhere...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5339 times:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember reading in one of CO's recent reports that they will be taking delivery of 18 737-900ERs in 2008, that's a nice boost even considering the 737-500s being sold.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineIaddca From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5303 times:

Love their NE strategy. Instead of spreading out across JFK, BOS, and DCA, the way AA and DL have in a desperate grab for big city O&D, they've just kept tightly focused on EWR. As a result, they've got monopolies on EWR-BOS, EWR-DCA, and between 65 and 80 percent share from EWR to SEA, SFO, LAX, MIA/FLL, MCO, and TPA. Meanwhile, AA and DL are struggling with each other and B6 across the Hudson.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5288 times:

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 19):
Love their NE strategy. Instead of spreading out across JFK, BOS, and DCA, the way AA and DL have in a desperate grab for big city O&D, they've just kept tightly focused on EWR. As a result, they've got monopolies on EWR-BOS, EWR-DCA, and between 65 and 80 percent share from EWR to SEA, SFO, LAX, MIA/FLL, MCO, and TPA. Meanwhile, AA and DL are struggling with each other and B6 across the Hudson.

CO is the largest airline in the NYC market, AA is #2. CO flies more people through EWR than AA does through EWR, JFK and LGA combined.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5277 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 17):
they will be retiring some old classics next year

I think that is turning the leases over to another operator.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 18):
737-500s being sold

Sold? I didn't know CO owned any of the B735's, only leased.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineIaddca From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5190 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 21):

Sold? I didn't know CO owned any of the B735's, only leased.

They own 15 of the 63 they operate.


User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5527 posts, RR: 56
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5177 times:

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 22):
They own 15 of the 63 they operate.

We are selling 10 of them to Transaero (Russian carrier).



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineIFlyATA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 242 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4497 times:

TZ's was up 3.8% in August, with a load factor of 91.3%...

But in July, it was 95.4%...quite a record for TZ.  Smile



ATA - an honestly different airline.
25 UAXDXer : Still labor issues (Scope) to be worked out on the Q-400s as they have more than 50 seats.
26 Post contains links and images STT757 : I was under the impression that only related to Jet aircraft, COEX used to operate ATR-72s from EWR up to 2001 or 2002. Those are over 50 seats. COEX
27 GeorgiaAME : Ah the power of the free and open marketplace! It's called supply and demand. When supply was too high, and demand too low (i.e. post 9/11), the bott
28 Panamair : Virtually all carriers are reporting record August numbers, even those with less than stellar service and operational performance. All one needs to d
29 Alias1024 : Scope in the pilot's contract only limits jets to 50 seats, not turboprops. Q400s are acceptable under the current scope clause.
30 SESGDL : AA is now third in the NYC market according to the latest Port Authority statistics, B6 is now #2. Jeremy
31 Paladin87 : Especially in Atlantic service. With the exception of AA it was a great month CO up 15.2% UAL up 8.8% NWA up 16.1% US up 22.8% AA up 1.1%(Asia is dow
32 Movingtin : Lots of intelligence in that statement!
33 Panamair : You''re mixing up traffic (RPMs) and capacity (ASMs) in those figures above. E.g., CO's 15.2% growth was in RPM while NWA's 16.1% was the ASM growth
34 Ikramerica : And again, when you have an 88-90% load factor, at peak times, your flights are 100% booked, meaning you are turning away customers and creating probl
35 Post contains images Falcon84 : And I feel like I worked every one of those full flights. Not really. A carrier needs to be very careful about having too many planes or seats. While
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