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How About Hands On Ground Control At Airport  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3105 posts, RR: 10
Posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3255 times:

This is not a new subject. We know that GPS has made big time inroads into current navigation. However some airlines are experimenting with what I will call "Hands On Ground Control". Apparently with some early tests by Delta, Alaska, and UPS there can be a significant time savings with this onboard feature.

"It is a revolution in technology, but also in politics. Previously, the F.A.A. usually bought new systems on the ground and told airlines to equip themselves to use them; now the airlines are taking the initiative to outfit their planes, with safety regulation from the F.A.A."

"Airlines are even developing their own approach patterns for airports, which has almost always been a government job."

"Using new technology, planes take off following a narrow route, so that that jets right behind them taking different routes do not have to wait as long. That makes the system move a bit faster."

Here is the writeup on this whole matter:

Courtesy: The New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/05/bu...08490a23&ei=5099&partner=TOPIXNEWS

6 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3233 times:

Wow... good stuff. I especially like the UPS part.

It is another fantastic example of how the private sector can get things accomplished so much quicker than the government sector.



Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3202 times:

I'm fairly unimpressed with the article and the quality of journalism. I personally doubt much of this will come about anytime soon, but that's just my opinion.

I like where it says the Alaska Airlines aircraft knows its position to within 600 ft using GPS. Laughable. If GPS was only accurate to within 600 ft we would all be dead by now. The article goes on to say that same 600 feet is "the airline equivalent to the head of a pin." I wish 600 feet was full scale deflection on the CDI. I'd have lots of room to play with. Would be fun.


User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3150 times:

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 2):
I'm fairly unimpressed with the article and the quality of journalism.

I second that!

The article refers to SDF and the 120 seconds between arrivals but the stop watch says they are actually 150-180 seconds apart......mmmmm I wonder how many of those 150-180 second intervals involve the lead aircraft being one which is requiring increased spacing for wake turbulence separation? Guess they failed to mention that.

ATL using RNAV SIDS is most likely what the article is referring to yet fail to mention that those SIDS are public and available to all appropriately equipped departures not only DL, yet failed to mention that fact nor that DFW had RNAV SIDS in place and operational before ATL, yet they missed that as well.

They also failed to mention the de-peaking work done at ATL a couple of years ago while referring to the 3 minutes less out to off times, love to know how that fits into new technology?

Ms. Lee and her B747, mmmm wonder what the average clean maneuvering speeds might be, if she kept the aircraft in a clean configuration she might have been able to fly 100 miles rather than the 80 mentioned.....oh well just a thought!!!!

The RNP term wasn't even used in the article and that is the very basis tighter route containment AS uses in Juneau.

Very unimpressed with limited research done for this poorly written article, as well as the failure to mention numerous operators other than UPS, DL and AS, have RNAV systems very capable of flying a variety of procedures, may of which have been charted for sometime.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3073 times:

ADS-B. This could provide a world of help for the airlines, atc and private jet operators.

User currently offlineBravoGolf From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 539 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2996 times:

The RNP system does work but it requires that both the aircraft and aircrew be certified to use it. Most users do not want to bother with the resultant costs. The airport can pay a company (Jepps) to chart RNP approaches to their runways and have the FAA approve them, but then has to pay the FAA a yearly maintenance fee for the approaches. GYY has RNP approaches, but very very few aircraft use them.

User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2936 times:

Quoting BravoGolf (Reply 5):
The airport can pay a company (Jepps) to chart RNP approaches to their runways and have the FAA approve them, but then has to pay the FAA a yearly maintenance fee for the approaches. GYY has RNP approaches, but very very few aircraft use them.

There are public RNP approaches throughout the U.S. that are published in the U.S. Gov't charts so they are not specific to Jeppeson. Jeppesen does in fact pick up the RNP approaches in their charting.

Most of the special RNP approaches such as those AS has as well as the CO specials at Quito, and hopefully early next year at IAH to name a few, are in fact paid for by the airline not the airports. Operators have numerous specials in their tailored charting/databases but don't know of too many airport authorities who pay for and maintain specials.

Quoting BravoGolf (Reply 5):
The RNP system does work but it requires that both the aircraft and aircrew be certified to use it. Most users do not want to bother with the resultant costs.

The certification of aircraft and crew is correct and charts are so marked with the SAAAR note on the chart such as the DCA RNAV (RNP) 19 approach. The trend is that more airlines and some NBAA operators are and will be receiving RNP certification.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
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