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Emirates Wants To Double A380 Order  
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 16621 times:

by the time the airport capacity allows it. Currently 55 will be the maximum that DXB can handle, but Clarke wants to "double" that number. (To 110, wow, I'm impressed.)

Source:

http://www.finanznachrichten.de/nach...ichten-2007-09/artikel-8976814.asp

143 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21588 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 16589 times:

Planes not ordered but spouted off about so far:

20 748s
100 787s
100 A350s
55 A380s

who in the history of aviation has had 100+ VLAs at one time (not to mention a fleet of midsize widebodies twice as large as that)?

nobody...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31433 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 16569 times:
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But one needs to remember EK plans to buy and bully their way into being the #1 airline in the world in size and traffic. So they're going to need maybe one thousand or more widebodies of all sizes to make that happen.

User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 16519 times:

Tim Clarke is a megalomaniac at the helm of an airline which is just as egotistical. His hub is not even that well located geographically. It's a very long flight from DXB to SYD, it's ULH to AKL, which isn't economical, so he doesn't have a great handle on the kangaroo route. It's located well south of the ideal route to Southeast Asia, which is already very well served by direct flights. Its way out of the way for Northeast Asia for anyone but Africa. I suppose EK has a good location for the low yielding europe to India to routes, but those are well served and easily served directly.

The real future of air travel in the 21st century is the pacific. A380s from the big North American and European cities to the big Asian cities, sure. 110 A380s going into DXB for any purpose, simply not likely.

I'll be damned surprise if he can make money flying 55 of those around plus his fleet.

My bet? Lots of A380s and 787/A350s on the market when EK finally faces the reality they do not need, and cannot support such a fleet.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 16411 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
who in the history of aviation has had 100+ VLAs at one time (not to mention a fleet of midsize widebodies twice as large as that)?

What does count as a VLA? 747 and bigger? Then, not many. 100 widebodies is already large.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
20 748s
100 787s
100 A350s
55 A380s

I think it was 10 747-8, and it will be either 100 A350s or 100 787s.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
But one needs to remember EK plans to buy and bully their way into being the #1 airline in the world in size and traffic. So they're going to need maybe one thousand or more widebodies of all sizes to make that happen.

Why 1,000 widebodies? I would measure size by pax-km flown, and by that EK is already very big.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
His hub is not even that well located geographically.

No? If you look at a world-map, you'll see Europe, Africa, Asia, and Australia. And what is in the middle of that? Dubai!

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
t's a very long flight from DXB to SYD, it's ULH to AKL, which isn't economical, so he doesn't have a great handle on the kangaroo route.

It is even further from the UK to those places. The route LHR-DXB-SYD is about 3% longer than a direct flight, I would say that is not too much.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
The real future of air travel in the 21st century is the pacific. A380s from the big North American and European cities to the big Asian cities, sure. 110 A380s going into DXB for any purpose, simply not likely.

Europe to India can be done via DXB. Same with the Eastern US.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
My bet? Lots of A380s and 787/A350s on the market when EK finally faces the reality they do not need, and cannot support such a fleet.

This far they have managed to be profitable.


User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 16411 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):

I hope that Boeing can get enough range to get an order from Emirates. God im crossing my fingers on this...lol. A380 may be new but the 747-8i is still recognized too.



Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21588 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 16363 times:

I don't know why he needs capacity for 110 A380s at DXB anyway. They won't all be parked there at one time. Just sounds like a typical bragging comment from the guy who loves to get his name in the press so some people quote him on a.net.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 4):
What does count as a VLA? 747 and bigger? Then, not many. 100 widebodies is already large.

exactly.

he's talking about 300 total widebodies including 100 VLAs in a fleet at one time. !!!!

Quoting Thorben (Reply 4):
I think it was 10 747-8, and it will be either 100 A350s or 100 787s.

it was more a list of the planes he's said he will or would buy, but hasn't.

it's 10+10 748s, and 50+50 (only now said this way, used to just say 100) A350s or 787s, but it's still a few years and no action.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31433 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 16273 times:
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Quoting Thorben (Reply 4):
Why 1,000 widebodies? I would measure size by pax-km flown, and by that EK is already very big.

Yes, but folks are asking how EK can make use of 300 widebodies. With something like 20%(?) year-on-year growth, and a strategy that seems based on moving the maximum number of people between two points, no matter how close or far away (hence no narrowbodies and the belief the A332 will not be replaced with a similarly-sized plane, but something much bigger), then as those pax-km numbers grow, so must the number of planes needed to carry those pax those kms.  Smile


User currently offlineLokey123 From Barbados, joined May 2006, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 16182 times:

A few months back i mentioned that i heard in Toulouse that Emirates had doubled their order to 80 something a/c, it turned out to be nothing but a rumour as they added just a few more a/c to the existing order. In looking back it seems as though their was a hint of truth to the rumour after all.

User currently offlineNcelhr From Vatican City, joined Jul 2006, 359 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 16158 times:

Darn, I just woke up from a dream where EK was the only airline left in the world. From JFK to LHR, I had to fly via DXB. Oh, what a nightmare!  crazy 

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21588 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 16136 times:

well, anything is possible, but they haven't taken delivery of 1 A380 yet, so let's not get too excited about frame number 110...  Wink


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineUPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 15903 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
Planes not ordered but spouted off about so far:

20 748s
100 787s
100 A350s
55 A380s

who in the history of aviation has had 100+ VLAs at one time (not to mention a fleet of midsize widebodies twice as large as that)?

nobody...

ILFC

EK will become ILFC's biggest competitor..........my  twocents 



744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
User currently offlineMorvious From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 707 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 15897 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):
well, anything is possible, but they haven't taken delivery of 1 A380 yet, so let's not get too excited about frame number 110...

Well, I was thinking the same over and over again with their orders so far, but every time again they seemed to do something stranger and bigger. Its not suprising me that much anymore.

Maybe it felt wrong in Dubai after the "news" China could use around 100+ A380's or maybe they want a better deal for the B748. Who knows.



have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31433 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 15847 times:
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Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 11):
EK will become ILFC's biggest competitor..........my  twocents 

I do think a leasing arm is in EK's future...


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21588 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 15847 times:

Quoting Morvious (Reply 12):
Maybe it felt wrong in Dubai after the "news" China could use around 100+ A380's or maybe they want a better deal for the B748. Who knows.

that's interesting. the arabian peninsula right now is one big pissing match, and you might be right that Clark was under pressure from "on high" to make clear that Dubai is just as important as China, and will be in the future.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 15763 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
Planes not ordered but spouted off about so far:

20 748s
100 787s
100 A350s
55 A380s

And for some reason all these statements appear on the same day. What they should really order is a big batch of duct tape to wrap around Clarke's mouth.


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6944 posts, RR: 77
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 15650 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
His hub is not even that well located geographically.

Often said on this forum, but totally disproved daily by EK's continuous growth. If people only took some time and checked EK's timetable (including these numerous secondary gateways) before posting here...

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
It's a very long flight from DXB to SYD, it's ULH to AKL, which isn't economical, so he doesn't have a great handle on the kangaroo route.

Then all their massive growth on the routes to Australia is just a Fata Morgana?  Confused

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
It's located well south of the ideal route to Southeast Asia, which is already very well served by direct flights.

From where? ATH? BHX? DME? GLA? HAM? MAN? MUC? NCL? VIE? Should I go on?

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
I suppose EK has a good location for the low yielding europe to India to routes, but those are well served and easily served directly.

Which contradicts EK's growth in the Indian market...and btw - can you provide a source for your "low yield theory"?

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
who in the history of aviation has had 100+ VLAs at one time (not to mention a fleet of midsize widebodies twice as large as that)?

Questions like these have always been asked in history. There's always a first time - that's no argument.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineWsp From Germany, joined May 2007, 458 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 15556 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 16):
From where? ATH? BHX? DME? GLA? HAM? MAN? MUC? NCL? VIE? Should I go on?

I think that can't be emphasized enough when this geography topic keeps coming up. NO place in continental Europe not even AMS has a shorter connection to SYD via LHR than via DXB.

Link


User currently offlineUSAF336TFS From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1445 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 15499 times:

I'm just fascinated by the numbers were talking here. This from the same airline that has brand new 773s parked on the tarmac due to lack of pilots.

And that doesn't even include the fact that they're talking about ordering 50 787/A350s.

Hey, if they can profitably fill all those aircraft, good for them.



336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21588 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 15468 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 16):
Questions like these have always been asked in history. There's always a first time - that's no argument.

Absolutely true. It's really a question of: do you or I think EK is going to be the carrier that is the first? They talk like they want to, they have growth right now, but it's a crapshoot. They haven't started filling 1 A380, let alone 110, and I have no doubt they can fill 30 or more, but 110 sounds like a schoolyard double dare battle right now.

EK will take infinity +1 A380s if China is taking infinity. So there. And my Dad can beat up your Dad.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineDrExotica From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 15395 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
Tim Clarke is a megalomaniac at the helm of an airline which is just as egotistical.

Basically, a wanna be Juan Trippe.

Maybe someone ought to bump him a copy of Gandt's Skygods.



N707PA - Best looking commercial aircraft ever.
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13551 posts, RR: 100
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 15395 times:
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Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
so he doesn't have a great handle on the kangaroo route.

Huh? EK has kicked of everyone but BA, VA, QF, and Singapore. As Thorben and others noted, they're in a good location for hubbing to Europe (assuming not everyone wants to go to LHR).  Smile

However, this much growth is... beyond ambitious.

But the real number is
748I 10
A350 or 787: 50 plus options Only one will win.
Now A380: 55 more.

Let's look at EK's historical strategy... they'll get rid of the 772A's, 773's, and possibly the 772ER's to other airlines. These are still good planes that any airline could make a profit off of. Its the old parable of selling a horse; you need to get rid of it while there are still years of work left in it. Otherwise you're stuck with the loss. And yes, old airframes fly a long time, but I believe today's high oil prices will force earlier retirements.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 4):

No? If you look at a world-map, you'll see Europe, Africa, Asia, and Australia. And what is in the middle of that? Dubai!

 checkmark 

Its going to be a matter of runway capacity and terminals. Hopefully EK can get more of a "rolling hub" going. However, at some point DXB will limit their growth. Well lookie here... JXB is under construction!  bigthumbsup 

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 11):
EK will become ILFC's biggest competitor..........my twocents



Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
I do think a leasing arm is in EK's future...

Add me to the chorus. They just have too much buying power. Love it or hate it... its a new fact in the aircraft market.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21588 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 15381 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 21):
Add me to the chorus. They just have too much buying power. Love it or hate it... its a new fact in the aircraft market.

But that's not what Clarke is talking about here. He's talking about room at DXB. Is EK only going to lease A380s to airlines that fly to DXB?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineWsp From Germany, joined May 2007, 458 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 15211 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
I do think a leasing arm is in EK's future...

Why would they disguise that as EK purchases?
Why would they start a leasing firm with such a risky investment instead of just a bunch of narrow bodies?

Everybody seems to be leasing aircraft nowadays, why would Dubai make a secret out of it?


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31433 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 15051 times:
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Quoting Wsp (Reply 23):
Why would they disguise that as EK purchases?

Sorry. I don't believe EK will buying shedloads of 787s and/or A350s and/or 748Is and/or A388s to lease them. I believe that, with all the A330s, A340s, and 777s EK has now that will be replaced, they would likely start with them as they take delivery of their new product over the next decade. Then, once they've established themselves in the leasing market, then they could start moving some of their oldest "new kit" as they add new. That way, they can have a new fleet and get extra mileage (excuse the pun) out of their older planes that still have plenty of life in them.


25 Post contains images CityAirline : Hahahahahaha
26 Gbfra : A long time ago there was a famous American TV show where you could hear as a motto: "To boldly go where no man has gone before." I was very impresse
27 BuyantUkhaa : Not sure about connections, but LHR-SYD great circle takes you via HKG... Not that this will affect EK the slightest, I'm just nitpicking.
28 ZBBYLW : I dont know if anyone else has mentioned this, I am running late read half way down, but has anyone considered that because they will get such a large
29 HNL-Jack : The worlds airlines don't seem to be running to the A-380's. The market appears to be headed towards mid size wide-bodies such as the 787/A-350 capab
30 Post contains images Ikramerica : True dat. But you left out a key part. It was a 5 year mission. But the series didn't last five years. It was canceled after three. It was a show bef
31 Kaitak744 : So, their future fleet will look like 50 787/A350 10 777-200LR +60 777-300ER 10 747-8 110 A380 Does anyone know the final number of 777-300ERs EK is p
32 Wolborsk : How is Airbus going to pull this one off? They got their work cut out for them. Where's Emirates going to fly 110 A380s anyway?
33 Ikramerica : by that time, you'd expect them to have exercised the other 50 787/A350 options and already retired/leased out some of the 77Ws and likely all the 77
34 Insiderinfo : gotta disagree there...DXB..i probabley the most centrally located HUB on the globe..just take a look at a map..can't get more central than DXB...for
35 SkyyMaster : Airlines are seriously talking to A & B about ultra-long range versions of the 787 and 350. The purpose of which to do nonstops such as Europe-Austra
36 Tristarcrazy : So, Pan Am ordered what was then (the 60's) a mind blowing amount of 747's, which, among other things, led to its down fall.....does anyone think EK c
37 Post contains images RJ111 : There are a handful of services from EU-OZ that could support a non-stop service, even with a 787. So making a connection in DXB when you want to fly
38 BoomBoom : There's a saying about bush pilots. "There are old pilots; and there are bold pilots. But there are no old bold pilots."
39 AndesSMF : That will not go on forever. There are some circles that are already calling Dubai another bubble in the making. And the higher they go, the further
40 WorldTraveler : The sentiment here seems to be fairly unanimous but EK can't survive on the capacity it is throwing in the market. Further, you can be assured that o
41 PM : It still amazes me (though it no longer should) the indignation and outrage some A.Net posters obviously feel at the success of Emirates and Qatar. It
42 Qantas787 : Anyone who seriously believes that EK will be flying circa 250 wide body aircraft ANY time in the future, should start packing for a visit from the wh
43 WorldTraveler : there is no indignation or jealousy. It is that people here do know the size of markets, do know how many aircraft EK has on order, and do know that
44 PM : Pan Am's initial order in 1966 for 25 747-100s was considered by many to be reckless and probably hubristic. Well, Pan Am are long gone - but not bec
45 Aussie747 : One of the biggest points of the article was " The first of the 55 aircraft it has ordered in deals worth billions of dollars is due to be delivered i
46 Ikramerica : This is the part people don't get. No nation of any size will allow EK to destroy their flag carriers. For EK to succeed with 250-300 large jets, the
47 PM : We'll have to agree to differ on that. I believe there are bucketloads of both. In the obvious sense that demand is finite, I agree. But in terms of
48 WorldTraveler : read reply 47... again. and a reminder one more time that the UK basically ruled the world at one time and BA is still the largest airline for a count
49 PM : The relevance of which is...? And, I believe I'm right in saying, more than half its passengers are not British. It strikes me that EK can point to B
50 Post contains images TeamAmerica : I disagree. It is entirely possible to read this thread without accusing the posters of prejudice. Your post paints A.Net with a pretty broad brush,
51 WorldTraveler : I can assure you that EK is carrying nowhere near close to 50% local passengers.... On what basis do you dismiss PA's 747 order as irrelevant in thei
52 Post contains links PM : Well, I could start with this choice example: But this is far from the first thread where the rapid growth of EK has occasioned splenetic outbursts a
53 Qantas787 : PanAm collapsed because it had a bucket load of 747's and no domestic feed to fill them.
54 Post contains links Kaitak : When is the new DXB airport opening? I thought it was 2009-10. When will the current order for EK A380s (55) going to be completed? Not until well int
55 Post contains links and images PM : Oh , where do I start?! 1. Because they placed their order 25 years before they went bust. 2. Because they made lots of other mistakes like neglectin
56 474218 : I have a question, if Emirates wants to double their A380 order what is stopping them?
57 MCIGuy : Over capacity is overcapacity, regardless of geography. This is a risky venture precisely because of the geography involved. Imagine if there's a majo
58 Post contains images Lightsaber : Good point, but I hypothesize that if they ordered more than 55 A380's some would be for lease purposes. Just a hypothesis, of course. Yea... they've
59 Ikramerica : He did. PM said that. He revealed HIS bias and tried to lay it on me, which is a cowardly form of racism. You need to read my posts regarding Virgin
60 Post contains images PM : PM's "bias" being what exactly? Got it?
61 PM : Raising our eyes back to the commercial prospects of operating 100+ A380s, what about this for a scenario? These 110 (or whatever) A380s aren't going
62 Post contains images WingedMigrator : Interesting Clark quote from this article: first I've heard of this... Quite possible. The 389's CASM is likely to have nothing to fear from the A350
63 Gunsontheroof : I smell excessive ambition. There is no precedent for what Clarke is talking about doing, and I don't see any reason why that particular airline with
64 Planemaker : If you just look at the current state of the industry. What about in 10-20 years? The aviation industry is one of the few global industries that hasn
65 WingedMigrator : Just because they are capable of it doesn't mean they will. On ULR flights you save ~15% fuel by making a stop in the middle, and save ~20% fuel by u
66 Qantas787 : Many of the over excited EK and TC groupies on this forum love to think that Dubai is some sort of nirvana that everyone in the world should fly thru.
67 Insiderinfo : Big difference between BA's 57 744's and 42 772's and EK's 100 777's 2 and 3ER and 110 A380's. it's over 150% more seats... and how long did it take
68 Post contains images MadameConcorde : Considering the rather small number of A380 friendly airports I wonder what they are going to do with more than 100 FatBusses! I hope they won't be se
69 AndesSMF : Read your history, there are many who call the beginning of the end of Pan Am when they ordered 25 747s. Please, see above about reading your history
70 Post contains images PM : (43 777s, you'll find, with four more on order.) Anyway, yes, there is a difference. But the BA fleet of 747s by the late 1990s was twice the size of
71 Post contains images PlaneHunter : Classic thread - an airline manager who is known for talking a lot makes another new provocative statement and yet again an a.net crowd goes ballistic
72 Post contains images Baroque : If they continue to support the Aus cricket team and it continues it dominance of world cricket, they might need them to fly ecstatic Aus cricket fana
73 Post contains links Thorben : 110 A380s are still a distant horizon. And I think the 100 A350s or 787s will replace a lot of the current fleet, the A343s, A332s, A345s, and all fi
74 Post contains images Astuteman : You wish!!!!!! So do I.... "The world turned upside-down"......... Dear me - how things have changed in 12 months Weren't we told to "expect" SQ (and
75 Ncfc99 : There are planes that can connect the cities as you say, but they all fly, and will continue to do so with the introduction of the 787, from london i
76 Glareskin : Better read first before making comments like this. Following is from the article: Emirates' 55 A380s is the maximum number that can be accommodated
77 Slz396 : Do I hear a little panic in the reactions from some (US) based posters? Writing off a plane before its EIS, based on 1 or 2 slow years of sales is jus
78 Gunsontheroof : They will if they're not Emirates. BA, AF, SQ, QF, AI, etc. etc. etc. aren't going to be making stops in DXB. We shall see. I have a lot of doubts ab
79 Post contains links and images WINGS : Well guys what I particularly liked are the following comments from EK in regards to the A380. http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Aviation/10152179.html
80 Slz396 : Let me help you read his words: It sounds as if Emirates ABSOLUTELY wants a plane which can make it to the American West coast non-stop. From what Ti
81 Wolborsk : The only problem with that logic is that there are only so many destinations. This "growth" can only go so far before EK is flying the regional US ma
82 Post contains images Thorben : The 747-8 has the problem that it is a huge, gas-guzzling four-hauler, while the future of aviation are rather small and fuel-efficient twins (like t
83 Gunsontheroof : The "shock" has nothing to do with the A380, which is as you said, a fine plane. The "shock" has to do with most of us wondering how the hell Emirate
84 EK77W : I have to completely disagree with that! I have flown with EK about 25 times in the last 3 years and about 75% of those flights have been packed! Not
85 Wsp : This is a result of their geographical location. If you feed a European hub using narrow bodies you can tap into a 700m people market. If you feed DX
86 Post contains images TeamAmerica : And you would have been justified in directing your complaint to THAT post rather than branding all the posters as prejudiced. The one post, coming a
87 Planemaker : One would or should presume that they will be retiring their A346s and older 773s over the protracted delivery of that many A380s. They won't have to
88 Ncfc99 : I think PM is referencing the very negative attitude that seems to come from many(and by no means do I mean all) people from the USA regarding anythi
89 Dutchjet : Any thread dealing with EK, the A380, and potential 787/A350 mega order, and now the possibility of 748Is as well, leads to drama......here is my poin
90 USAF336TFS : I don't know if it's as nefarious as that. And to ignore issues that originate in that region, coupled with shear numbers and types of aircraft, the
91 PlaneHunter : How exactly in the case of Dubai and EK? PH
92 USAF336TFS : I can't read newspapers for you, my good friend.... I think it would be safe to say that oil money is the huge factor in the region. Comparisons betw
93 PlaneHunter : Why should you? Dubai is not dependant on oil any longer - in contrast to other countries or emirates. PH
94 Post contains images Stitch : Fantastic summary. Many operate under the mistaken belief that EK's fortunes are backed by oil, but they are not. However, some of their local compet
95 Post contains images USAF336TFS : Thanks. I have one less thing to do this weekend. With the price of oil at it's current levels, do they really need to be dependent on a single commo
96 Kaitak744 : Ok... well, just because they are ordering 110 A380s doesn't mean they will fly them all. The aviation industry is currently dominated by only 2 leasi
97 Post contains links USAF336TFS : According to the official UAE government website, the national oil and gas companies account for 33% of the country's GDP. While onshore reserves are
98 GDB : I have to largely agree with PM and others here, consider a point alluded to before, just how does a tiny city state like Singapore have such a large
99 Post contains images Stitch : The United States of America has a population of around 300 million. Just because 535 of them act like idiots, doesn't mean the other 299,998,435 are
100 Post contains images USAF336TFS : Well said... I don't see the relevance of the Dubai Ports controversy and EK buying over 100 A380s, which some here feel is sort of nuts, frankly. I
101 Flyorski : It will be interesting to see what happens to the future of aviation from here. I would not be surprised to see more and more open skies agreements be
102 Post contains links Philzh : I hope this does not go against some Forum rules here and/or is not a repost: Just read this quoted article from the Chicago Tribune in a thread about
103 Post contains images CityAirline : Isn't that 299,999,465? //Alex
104 Post contains images WingedMigrator : These are the mathematics of extraordinary rendition
105 PlaneHunter : 33% may be the current figure for the UAE - but that includes Abu Dhabi with its massive oil and gas reserves. In Dubai, oil and gas account for some
106 Post contains images Stitch : Yes it is. It's what I get for not using all nine figures on my calculator and just using the last four and erroneously then knocking down the 1000s
107 Post contains images USAF336TFS : Semantics again... Dubai is an emirate yes, but like Abu Dhabi, is a part of the same nation. My point remains... Your comparison is like saying New
108 CJAContinental : I also agree that clark has lost the plot if this is true.
109 Post contains images Shenzhen : Well, you did say around 300 million, therefore 20 or so people shouldn't be statitistically significant Do they allow a US Company full control of t
110 BoomBoom : Sales have been slow for the last five years. To make matters worse, all the freighter orders were canceled.
111 Post contains images TeamAmerica : You seem to believe that you, by virtue of not having a US flag next to your username, are exempt from the accusation of prejudice. I did not see tha
112 Hloutweg : Emirates ambition is remarkable. They want to become what Pan Am once was to the United States, but they seem to envision a more global airline. I wou
113 Post contains images Leskova : Now remind me - how many A340-600s does EK operate right now, and how many are they currently planning on operating? Somehow, the number 0 comes to m
114 Wsp : The US allowed a foreign company to control these ports. This turned into a problem only when that British company was sold Dubai. In the meantime th
115 Silentbob : Not to mention the fact that the wealth in the region is concentrated in a very small portion of the population.
116 WorldTraveler : This thread has turned interesting and there are some very strong opinions. I'm glad Dutch checked in but I disagree on several points. Quoting Dutchj
117 Post contains images PM : So please don't do it. You know very well that the legitimate concern I expressed in post #41 did not explicitly or implicitly include all A.Net post
118 Post contains images Stitch : I have yet to have the pleasure, though I'd like to try F on their A345s very much.
119 PM : Wouldn't we all?! It won't be in F but I have a small chance of taking an A345 from KIX to DXB next year. Fingers crossed.
120 Post contains images Mariner : You may be.   I've flown them a few times, and have never been disappointed. So it follows that I've been to Dubai a few times, and what I see there
121 Wsp : Been to Dubai a few times, but never on EK. This might change if they start flights from TXL...
122 Post contains images Lightsaber : Alas, until they fly to LAX, its not practical. However, EK's expansion in the USA looks like its about to get into high gear. Is there a rumor on th
123 PlaneHunter : The comparison is flawed. The UAE is a federation of seven emirates, each with its own ruler. Under the UAE’s constitution, each emirate owns its r
124 Post contains images Ncelhr : A margin of improvement for the 748i? How? Extending the upper deck would mean re-designing the whole aircraft. Boeing knows that and is not ready to
125 Post contains images Astuteman : I understood SLZ396 to mean "a margin of improvement left that has to be made to the 748i before EK are satisfied with it - whether the margin of imp
126 Wsp : There were threads here earlier that the federal ministry in Berlin is stalling the expansion to Berlin with some mildly ridiculous arguments. I thin
127 BoomBoom : Which customers canceled after Airbus "deferred" the A380F?
128 Gbfra : Even if it were technically easy we should not expect the A389 for a long while. That's at least what you can hear from Airbus. Afaik Mr. Mayrhuber h
129 Buckeye : IIRC UPS canceled after Airbus announced that the A380F development was being delayed. After the Airbus announcement, UPS stated that at the earliest
130 Wsp : This is LH vs. Berlin. For a politician that should be an easy choice. With 10m passengers for QR so far it is clear that a lot of passenger (=voters
131 Post contains images Lightsaber : Ok, you made your point. But when BBI finally is completed, it should easily be able to accommodate a few A380's. Lightsaber
132 Post contains images LifelinerOne : UPS did. They basically said that they didn't agree with the new schedule from Airbus because they deferred to A380F to give priority to the A380. Ch
133 Thorben : The federal government doesn't want EK in Berlin in order to protect LH, the Berlin government is too silly to see the chances that a good aviation c
134 Baroque : Would you care to add engines to that, pretty please, the 389 might even win engines that are two generations later than the T900s??
135 Post contains images TeamAmerica : That's a large "might". The question is how many A389's could be sold as the simple stretch that is planned, vs. how many more might be sold with a n
136 Baroque : However, while picking an engine of a suitable thrust in, say 2010, why pick one from the Trent 900 range when you could pick for a similar thrust, a
137 WingedMigrator : If you assume that the Trent XWB is being designed to be reverse-compatible with the A388 (let alone the A389), which I believe is likely for reasons
138 PM : It has been argued elsewhere that the A380-900 will be the salvation of the whole programme. Certainly, Airbus will have over-engineered the A380-800
139 Post contains images Astuteman : Of course, that IS an assumption - one I love making, but....   I have been led to believe (but cannot substantiate) that the T XWB will be "at wors
140 Post contains images PM : Which may be no bad thing. If a substantially better engine was available now, Airbus might have a hard time persuading current customers to take del
141 Post contains images Astuteman : Wouldn't have a clue....... Regards
142 Post contains images WingedMigrator : It all depends... the fuel burn would likely be on a par with the 787-10 (in whatever form it materializes) and the A350-1000. So an A389 'XWB' would
143 Astuteman : If fuel burn is on a par, the single large aircraft might have a quite substantial CASM advantage........ Certainly post- A350 EIS Regards
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