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Definitive List Of Flat Bed J Class Airlines  
User currently offlineDaron4000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 712 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8547 times:

I am often confused about which airlines in Business class offer a true flat bed vs. a sloping "lie-flat" bed. Sometimes, advertising makes it seem that it is fully flat when in fact it is lie flat. This has happened to me with both Austrian and Iberia, where it seemed like the seats were fully flat from website images but actually, according to A.net pictures, they sloped. So this list is here for the definitive decision on airlines with a Full Flat Bed in Business class. Please help me out by seeing if there is anything I have forgetton or am mistaken about. Thanks so much!

Full Flat J:
BA
VS
NZ
AC
SAA
CX
SQ
Etihad
Jet
UA (Soon)
QF (Announced)
DL (Announced)
Tam?
Kenya Airways?

[Edited 2007-09-09 00:42:08]

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3761 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8465 times:

I don't know about the others, but CX is only implementing its new interior config at the present time.

Only a handful of A/Cs currently have the new olympus cabin with the fully lie flat J seats.

(AFAIK; 2 747, 2 A330 and the first 777-300ER in a few days)



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8339 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

TAM (JJ) is really flat-bed on A332 fleet only. M11 is another story.


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days ago) and read 8265 times:

SQ most certainly is not.

I recently flew them from Australia to Singapore to London, and only Singapore-London was in a flat, horizontal bed. The PER-SIN, HKG-SIN and SIN-BNE products were a disgrace.

Of your list, I've only found NZ, VS and BA to be outstanding.


User currently offlineAirbus767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days ago) and read 8247 times:

LAN is in the process of removing First & Business and implementing their new "Premium Business" class in all their 767s, which feature lie-flat seats. All their 767s will have them by May 2008, and then after that they'll begin with their 340s . Here's a cool page with more info, but its in Spanish: http://www.lan.com/files/info_viajes...as/html/index_minisitio-es-cl.html


LAN ~ United Airlines ~ Aerolineas Argentinas ~ Pluna ~ Varig ~ American Airlines
User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3067 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8147 times:

Quoting Koruman (Reply 3):
SQ most certainly is not.

The new one is fully-flat.

There is no real difinitive list. Reasons are that some airlines have regional seats, older style, domestic business seats, while some of the seats are lie-flat.

Example: SQ could be put on the list or off it, same applies to CX, etc.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlineFlyTUITravel From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 723 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8103 times:

Royal Brunei - BI

http://www.bruneiair.com/services/business_class.asp

 Smile


User currently offlinePA101 From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8087 times:

www.seatguru.com will help in telling what aircraft of what carrier have true-lie-flat beds.

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26978 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7967 times:

From the end of this month BD will start introducing fully flat beds on their A330's.

User currently offlineDABTH747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7541 times:

Quoting Daron4000 (Thread starter):

OS has them in the 763 and 772's..


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8675 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7244 times:

What about LH?

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7124 times:

Quoting DABTH747 (Reply 9):
OS has them in the 763 and 772's..

Aren't these lie-flats ISO full-flats?


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7108 times:

Quoting Daron4000 (Thread starter):
What about LH?

LH is slopey-flat, not fully flat, in J. It's OK but not the same as proper flat bed e.g. NZ/AC.


User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7089 times:

Fact is everyone is in the process of changing over. No airlines have a whole fleet of full flats.

Makes more sense if you ask who has firm plans to change over to full flats.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlinePlaneMad From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2003, 533 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6917 times:

VS has all of their a/c with the UCS now! Well they did up until they got G-VSUN back a couple of weeks ago!!!

Sam D  Smile


User currently offlineDaron4000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6807 times:

Thanks for the help so far. The reasons for compiling this list was to get a sense of which airlines actually have truly flat seats. Apparently even with this title there is some confusion because as far as I know, LH and OS are definitely not flat bed as in ------- flat like that not / flat.

As far as which airlines have a full fleet implementation, yes that is probably limited at the moment to BA, VS, NZ, SAA but I have included others who are starting to introduce fully flat beds like SQ and CX. Yes they are some of the two top airlines in the world and I know it is not fleet wide but I assume that as time passes (could be years) this will become mostly fleet wide for long haul flights.

I will add Lan to the list

Is anyone sure about BMI or Royal Brunei??


User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2122 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6736 times:

I am pretty sure EK will go fully flat in C clas with introduction of A380, don't know how the B772LR's are equiped whihc enter service as of last week? This btw would make it nice to finnaly see EK have a cabin product that is identical to the rest of the fleet and not have in every aircraft type a different seating.

Swiss will have fully flat Business Class seats starting with the delivery of the A330-300's in 2009. Probably by 2010 entire longhaul fleet will feature it.

[Edited 2007-09-09 17:53:08]

[Edited 2007-09-09 17:54:23]

User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8565 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6736 times:
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Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 15):
As far as which airlines have a full fleet implementation, yes that is probably limited at the moment to BA, VS, NZ,

depends what you mean by full fleet imlementation . NZ have true flat beds in all their 744 and 772 fleet . The 767s for the moment still have old style business class ( they are used on more leisure oriented routes such as AKL-HNL , NAN-LAX , RAR-LAX , and on shorter routes such as New Zealand - Australia and the South Pacific) . IIRC business class will disappear altogether from the 767s next year when it will be replaced by a premium economy product - by that time all NZ 'longhaul' a/c with a business class cabin will be true flat bed



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6709 times:

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 16):
Swiss will have fully flat Business Class seats starting with the delivery of the A330-300's in 2009. Probably by 2010 entire longhaul fleet will feature it.

About time ! The seats on the LX A340 aren't bad, but the 332 J seats are just dreadful.


User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2122 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6652 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 18):
About time ! The seats on the LX A340 aren't bad, but the 332 J seats are just dreadful.

The A332 seating in C is really embarasing, now almost another 2 years of waiting but now the entire plane will be replaced not only the cabin. Till then always hope to fly an A343 and not an A332  Wink


User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2047 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6604 times:

Regarding SQ, there are three business class services:

- Raffles Class (772ER, 744): Spacebed is a flat yet sloping bed. I think the angle is 160 or so.
- Regional Raffles Class (772, 773): Business Class seats a la US carriers (ie, AA, CO, etc).
- New Business Class (773ER, A380): Fully flat seats with tons of personal space.

All of Australia, except for SYD, is considered short-haul for SQ so cities like MEL, BNE, PER, ADL get the regional business class, which I agree are subpar to what QF offers on those routes.

It was rumored that the 773ER would be put on the route to MEL (I was rooting for it as I travel SIN-MEL frequently), but those plans have been shelved.

Cheers
Coal



Nxt Flts: VA SYD-CBR-SYD | QF SYD-DFW | AA DFW-TLH-MIA-DFW | QF DFW-SYD
User currently offlineSSTsomeday From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 1276 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6181 times:

Quoting Koruman (Reply 3):
I recently flew them from Australia to Singapore to London, and only Singapore-London was in a flat, horizontal bed.

This must be very confusing; that an airline does not have a consistent product on the same route. It may depend on the A/C type being used, I suppose, but also on whether a refit is being implemented very slowly, for example not until the A/C is taken off line for a major check or to be replaced with a new-buy A/C. So that would mean that variations exist even within the same A/C type. (I understand of course that domestic A/C are often configured differently).

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 5):
There is no real difinitive list. Reasons are that some airlines have regional seats, older style, domestic business seats, while some of the seats are lie-flat.

It would be great if "Seat Guru" or some other website could provide this information, but I suppose it's impossible seeing as you would have to actually know the call sign of the A/C flying your itinerary when you book the ticket, and that may not be determined.

Perhaps it's only possible to go with the airline which has the most consistent high end-product, and then hope for the best.

What I don't understand is, when airlines are flying an A/C type with various ships in the fleet having different configurations, how do they handle seat selection issues and/or overbooking when an A/C arrives at the gate with a different seating configuration than expected? I would imagine passengers paying for those high-end tickets do not want that kind of drama or unreliability.

The only thing I can think of is that a large percentage of the front cabins are probably peopled with last minute upgrades, meaning a paying business/first class passenger would never need to be downgraded to coach. But imagine expecting and paying for a lie-flat seat or mini cabin and ending up with only a large regular seat.

About 10 years ago my brother flew a domestic trip on an A/C 767, I believe it was, and was pleased to discover they were using an internationally configured 767 on that run that day. So there was one less seat across as I recall. So he was pleasantly surprised, etc., but imagine when that scenario works in the reverse, and an A/C with lessor product has to substitute for one that has gone tech. I would feel swindled...



I come in peace
User currently offlineFtrguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6130 times:

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 21):
It would be great if "Seat Guru" or some other website could provide this information, but I suppose it's impossible seeing as you would have to actually know the call sign of the A/C flying your itinerary when you book the ticket, and that may not be determined.

They do...

http://www.seatguru.com/charts/business_class.php


User currently offlineUPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6013 times:

Quoting Airbus767 (Reply 4):
LAN is in the process of removing First & Business and implementing their new "Premium Business" class in all their 767s, which feature lie-flat seats

Lie-flat doesn't mean 180º, AFAIK LA new seats will not be full flat beds but angled, more or less like IB's.



744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
User currently offlineManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1227 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5961 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 8):
From the end of this month BD will start introducing fully flat beds on their A330's.

Fully flat yes, but not horizontal which is what the OP is asking about. The BD seats will be at a very slight angle for some strange reason (given that the 80 inch pitch is sufficient for horizontal seating).

http://www.flybmi.com/bmi/en-gb/trav...ormation/newcabinsforlonghaul.aspx



Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
25 Post contains images ThereAndBack : Turkish Airlines has lie flat at an angle seats. These seats are on the A330 and are being slowly introduced on the A340. One A340 already has the new
26 Post contains links Zeke : You could also look at http://www.flatseats.com/
27 Bombayhog : LAN's seats are angled! They're very good seats, yes, but not 180 to the floor, unfortunately.
28 MCOflyer : GF TN AI Add these to the list. Hunter
29 VV701 : I do not think this is correct. First The New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary (page 968) says: "flat 1. Horizontally level; without inclination" wh
30 Aerofan : EKs are not flat beds. They are of the sloping lie flat kind. The ones on their 777W that fly on the JFK route are are ok. Steer clear of the ones on
31 Koruman : I don't think that Kiwiandrew is correct in saying that Air NZ's low-yield 767-300ERs are going to have Business Class replaced by Premium Economy: th
32 VHVXB : How about Jet Airways??
33 Viscount724 : That's not correct in current airline usage. Many airlines advertise "flat beds" when in fact the seats are angled when fully extended. Those seats h
34 Post contains images CXfirst : BA and NZ and SAA have 737. A320, etc. WHICH DON"T HAVE FULLY FLAT SEATS only fully flat seat flee-wide must be VS !!! -CXfirst
35 VV701 : But it is correct in terms on the English language. Those airlines that claim their inclined beds are flat are simply stretching the truth for commer
36 Post contains images Mk777 : I think their 77W's have the F and J class and the A332's have the J class only (if i am not mistaken). The F class have "full flat" beds and the J c
37 LXA340 : Any plans from SQ to upgrade the B772ER's with the new Business Class. I doubt the B744's wil get new seats as they will progressively be leaving the
38 Bullpitt : Hi all I might be wrong but I thought that these seats were 178 degrees to compensate the planes 2 degrees as it flys. Otherwise paps would have their
39 Albird87 : I wonder now with more airlines introducing the lie-flat beds in to their fleets, what will the effect of this do to a lot of the airlines that have f
40 Post contains images Kiwiandrew : oooops , that's what I get for quoting rumour as fact although in my defence I did add "IIRC" I was sure that I had read it somewhere but in fact all
41 Coal : Not sure about the upgrade on the 772ER, but as some of those a/c start to leave the fleet (in favor of new ones), it is a possibility that they will
42 QFYMML : Small note - I didn't think the Skybed product has ever been available on QF's SYD-HNL route? Was 743's with Dreamtime seats, now 763's with the Mill
43 MD90fan : Air Ivoirie has 4 flat beds on their A321.
44 VHVXB : Yes you are right. QF A333 and B744 has never been used on SYD-HNL.
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