Daron4000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 712 posts, RR: 1 Posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8651 times:
I am often confused about which airlines in Business class offer a true flat bed vs. a sloping "lie-flat" bed. Sometimes, advertising makes it seem that it is fully flat when in fact it is lie flat. This has happened to me with both Austrian and Iberia, where it seemed like the seats were fully flat from website images but actually, according to A.net pictures, they sloped. So this list is here for the definitive decision on airlines with a Full Flat Bed in Business class. Please help me out by seeing if there is anything I have forgetton or am mistaken about. Thanks so much!
Full Flat J:
Airbus767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8351 times:
LAN is in the process of removing First & Business and implementing their new "Premium Business" class in all their 767s, which feature lie-flat seats. All their 767s will have them by May 2008, and then after that they'll begin with their 340s . Here's a cool page with more info, but its in Spanish: http://www.lan.com/files/info_viajes...as/html/index_minisitio-es-cl.html
LAN ~ United Airlines ~ Aerolineas Argentinas ~ Pluna ~ Varig ~ American Airlines
Daron4000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6911 times:
Thanks for the help so far. The reasons for compiling this list was to get a sense of which airlines actually have truly flat seats. Apparently even with this title there is some confusion because as far as I know, LH and OS are definitely not flat bed as in ------- flat like that not / flat.
As far as which airlines have a full fleet implementation, yes that is probably limited at the moment to BA, VS, NZ, SAA but I have included others who are starting to introduce fully flat beds like SQ and CX. Yes they are some of the two top airlines in the world and I know it is not fleet wide but I assume that as time passes (could be years) this will become mostly fleet wide for long haul flights.
LXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2127 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6840 times:
I am pretty sure EK will go fully flat in C clas with introduction of A380, don't know how the B772LR's are equiped whihc enter service as of last week? This btw would make it nice to finnaly see EK have a cabin product that is identical to the rest of the fleet and not have in every aircraft type a different seating.
Swiss will have fully flat Business Class seats starting with the delivery of the A330-300's in 2009. Probably by 2010 entire longhaul fleet will feature it.
Kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8601 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6840 times:
Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 15): As far as which airlines have a full fleet implementation, yes that is probably limited at the moment to BA, VS, NZ,
depends what you mean by full fleet imlementation . NZ have true flat beds in all their 744 and 772 fleet . The 767s for the moment still have old style business class ( they are used on more leisure oriented routes such as AKL-HNL , NAN-LAX , RAR-LAX , and on shorter routes such as New Zealand - Australia and the South Pacific) . IIRC business class will disappear altogether from the 767s next year when it will be replaced by a premium economy product - by that time all NZ 'longhaul' a/c with a business class cabin will be true flat bed
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
Coal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2112 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6708 times:
Regarding SQ, there are three business class services:
- Raffles Class (772ER, 744): Spacebed is a flat yet sloping bed. I think the angle is 160 or so.
- Regional Raffles Class (772, 773): Business Class seats a la US carriers (ie, AA, CO, etc).
- New Business Class (773ER, A380): Fully flat seats with tons of personal space.
All of Australia, except for SYD, is considered short-haul for SQ so cities like MEL, BNE, PER, ADL get the regional business class, which I agree are subpar to what QF offers on those routes.
It was rumored that the 773ER would be put on the route to MEL (I was rooting for it as I travel SIN-MEL frequently), but those plans have been shelved.
Nxt Flts: VA SYD-LAX | VX LAX-FLL | B6 FLL-BOG-FLL | VX FLL-LAX | VA LAX-SYD | VA SYD-PER-SYD
SSTsomeday From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 1276 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6285 times:
Quoting Koruman (Reply 3): I recently flew them from Australia to Singapore to London, and only Singapore-London was in a flat, horizontal bed.
This must be very confusing; that an airline does not have a consistent product on the same route. It may depend on the A/C type being used, I suppose, but also on whether a refit is being implemented very slowly, for example not until the A/C is taken off line for a major check or to be replaced with a new-buy A/C. So that would mean that variations exist even within the same A/C type. (I understand of course that domestic A/C are often configured differently).
Quoting CXfirst (Reply 5): There is no real difinitive list. Reasons are that some airlines have regional seats, older style, domestic business seats, while some of the seats are lie-flat.
It would be great if "Seat Guru" or some other website could provide this information, but I suppose it's impossible seeing as you would have to actually know the call sign of the A/C flying your itinerary when you book the ticket, and that may not be determined.
Perhaps it's only possible to go with the airline which has the most consistent high end-product, and then hope for the best.
What I don't understand is, when airlines are flying an A/C type with various ships in the fleet having different configurations, how do they handle seat selection issues and/or overbooking when an A/C arrives at the gate with a different seating configuration than expected? I would imagine passengers paying for those high-end tickets do not want that kind of drama or unreliability.
The only thing I can think of is that a large percentage of the front cabins are probably peopled with last minute upgrades, meaning a paying business/first class passenger would never need to be downgraded to coach. But imagine expecting and paying for a lie-flat seat or mini cabin and ending up with only a large regular seat.
About 10 years ago my brother flew a domestic trip on an A/C 767, I believe it was, and was pleased to discover they were using an internationally configured 767 on that run that day. So there was one less seat across as I recall. So he was pleasantly surprised, etc., but imagine when that scenario works in the reverse, and an A/C with lessor product has to substitute for one that has gone tech. I would feel swindled...
Ftrguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6234 times:
Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 21): It would be great if "Seat Guru" or some other website could provide this information, but I suppose it's impossible seeing as you would have to actually know the call sign of the A/C flying your itinerary when you book the ticket, and that may not be determined.
ManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6065 times:
Quoting OA260 (Reply 8): From the end of this month BD will start introducing fully flat beds on their A330's.
Fully flat yes, but not horizontal which is what the OP is asking about. The BD seats will be at a very slight angle for some strange reason (given that the 80 inch pitch is sufficient for horizontal seating).