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Please Don't Fly "New York Air"  
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 16067 times:

I found this on Ebay this morning, and it brought back some memories.

When we started flying, the folks at Continental were not happy with us at all to say the least. Picket lines and protests by CO employees were not unusual as they felt (and perhaps rightly so) that NY was taking away resources from them in order to start up a non-union east coast carrier (see Frank Lorenzo).




At our 25th reunion last year, I talked to a number of F/A's who are still with CO and they are of course pretty senior now, but I wonder if there is still animosity between the old CO folks and the NY people?


http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Please-D...D1VQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

[Edited 2007-09-09 17:07:10]

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 15977 times:

Ahhh, good ol' smooth-talking Frankie...Union-busters worship him as a God, but many (if not most) former airline employees can barely say his name without spitting in disgust.

However, considering that Continental today is virtually a different company than the Continental of the 1980's, one would hope that animosity towards NYAir employees would be long gone...



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 15901 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 1):
Ahhh, good ol' smooth-talking Frankie...Union-busters worship him as a God, but many (if not most) former airline employees can barely say his name without spitting in disgust.

I agree 100%, however as a naive 20 something starting out in the business we didn't care. We wanted a job, and it was great. Only later did we at NY realize what was going on.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6471 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 15789 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 1):
However, considering that Continental today is virtually a different company than the Continental of the 1980's, one would hope that animosity towards NYAir employees would be long gone...

There was and still is animosity between ALPA members and the hundreds of CO pilots who crossed the picket line back then, and busted the union. Many ALPA pilots for various airlines carried the CO "scab list" foe years and would not let them jump-seat. The CO pilots many years lter re-joined ALPA, but were never forgiven.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17495 posts, RR: 45
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 15457 times:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
I wonder if there is still animosity between the old CO folks and the NY people?

I would assume so seeing as unions are more concerned about settling a score, protecting only themselves, and vengeance than growing the business or generating jobs for everyone.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinePhxpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 80 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 14461 times:

Well it only took 4 responses before somebody had to start the old union debate. Not very constructive, not related to the post, and something that has been debated ad naseum before.  Yeah sure

User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2173 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14115 times:

Quoting Phxpilot (Reply 5):
Well it only took 4 responses before somebody had to start the old union debate. Not very constructive, not related to the post, and something that has been debated ad naseum before.

Perfectly stated. Hopefully, it will be the last.

As for New York Air.... how big did the operation get before integration into the other carriers?


User currently offlineLASOctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14034 times:

well what was all the beef about?


[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
User currently offlineSemsem From Israel, joined Jul 2005, 1779 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12628 times:

I flew on New York Air many years ago and I still remember that they served a very nice Cheese Danish for breakfast and bagel with cream cheese for snacks.

[Edited 2007-09-10 00:18:15]

User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12479 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
I would assume so seeing as unions are more concerned about settling a score, protecting only themselves, and vengeance than growing the business or generating jobs for everyone.

Come on, tell us how you really feel.



I'm sure there are a few hold outs, and as long as pilots and F/As are in unions, you will always encounter those hard-line union guys who say crap like "i'll never let a mesa guy jumpseat on my airplane" - but for the most part, pilots and flight attendants understand that their non-union colleagues are just trying to make a living in this ridiculous industry.



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5110 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10937 times:

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 7):


well what was all the beef about?

NYA was a Texas Air Corp spin-off using TI/CO DC-9's, with non-union employees. The employees at CO (rightfully) saw it as an attempt by TAC to break the unions, and there was much animosity.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2173 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10725 times:

New York Air was another brick in Frank Lorenzo's ornate stairway to Hell. (No, nothing against the employees, just the intentions of the greedy POS that Lorenzo was/is). I look forward to the day I can dance on his grave.

User currently offlineToxtethogrady From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10618 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 1):
Ahhh, good ol' smooth-talking Frankie.

Banned for life from the business.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10591 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 10):
NYA was a Texas Air Corp spin-off using TI/CO DC-9's, with non-union employees. The employees at CO (rightfully) saw it as an attempt by TAC to break the unions, and there was much animosity.

It was a little more complicated. The first flight by New York Air was on 19 December 1980, between New York and Boston. Texas Air didn't take over CO until 1981. Never the less NY was seen as a threat to CO.

Texas International Airlines (TI), another Lorenzo holding, was merged into Continental Airlines in June 1982.

True, NY used TI aircraft at first, and then some CO DC-9's were added, but many of the other aircraft came to NY from SR, AirCal (MD-80's) and direct from MDD and Boeing (737-3TO's).


User currently offlineToxtethogrady From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10535 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
I would assume so seeing as unions are more concerned about settling a score, protecting only themselves, and vengeance than growing the business or generating jobs for everyone.

In that regard, they're almost as anal as the Club for Growth. But not quite.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10516 times:

Quoting Semsem (Reply 8):
I flew on New York Air many years ago and I still remember that they served a very nice Cheese Danish for breakfast and bagel with cream cheese for snacks.

Like this:



Quoting Travatl (Reply 6):

As for New York Air.... how big did the operation get before integration into the other carriers?







I only wished!!!

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/dtwclipper/NY.jpg

[Edited 2007-09-10 03:29:17]

User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10104 times:

New York Air wasn't the first carrier with that name. New York Airways operated helicopter service between New York's airports and Wall Street. It went out of business in 1979. I was on a New York Air flight in 1963 that flew from Newark to Kennedy via Manhattan. We landed. My mother and I got off. A few minutes later, the copter took off and crashed almost immediately with the loss of all hands - three passengers and three crew. I remember getting on our Air Canada Viscount and seeing the large black plume of smoke and not knowing for days that this was the copter I had just disembarked from.

User currently offlineRobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 941 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10040 times:
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The ATC callsign for NY Air flights was "apple." If memory serves me, when NY Air was absorbed into CO/People Express, they were forced to give up the BOS-LGA and DCA-LGA routes which were purchased by PanAm. As PanAm sold off its bits and pieces to stay alive, Delta bought the PanAM shuttle, which it operates to this day.

User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 9901 times:

Quote:
New York Air was another brick in Frank Lorenzo's ornate stairway to Hell. (No, nothing against the employees, just the intentions of the greedy POS that Lorenzo was/is). I look forward to the day I can dance on his grave.

Right after we all dance on Carl Icahn's. No matter what Lorenzo ever does, Icahn is one circle of hell lower.

As for New York Air, I remember in 1987 being in Washington, DC, and going to "Idiot's Park" - a former boat dock on the north side of DCA where people would gather to watch planes landing on runway 19. This new carrier that I had never seen before - New York Air - caught my eye (west coast boy here!!). I have to say that the color alone was enough to make me want to fly them - and I didn't even know where the operated from!!

I'm kind of sad that "Euro-white" has kind of taken over - no more colors like Braniff or New York Air. I only saw them briefly one summer, but they have stuck in my mind ever since!!



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineLuvaulter From United States of America, joined May 2006, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9128 times:

about if the two company's having issues still at NWA the flight attendents still have red tail-green tail (republic-Nwa) issues.

User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6589 times:

When I was hired, all I flew on was NY routes, on NY aircraft, doing a NY service to NY cities. I might have well been hired by NY. All in a CO (aubergine  vomit  uniform). I still remember doing a full meal service in F/C and Y/C with a full bar service on a 24 miute flight with 141 passenegers on an MD-80 between EWR and BOS/DCA. Yes, 24 minutes.

There is little to zero animosity with the NY integration. What animosity exists, albeit small, is the Frontier integration. Personally, it was 20 + years ago. Let it go. All any animosity does is cause stress to the bearer.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6198 times:

Quoting Phxpilot (Reply 5):
Well it only took 4 responses before somebody had to start the old union debate. Not very constructive, not related to the post

My thoughts exactly.....

Of the CO employees I know, the Lorenzo days are way behind them, NY Air is a thing of the past, they won't forget those days but something most care do not care to bring up.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 20):
Let it go.

Just get over it.  Smile



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17495 posts, RR: 45
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5056 times:

Quoting Phxpilot (Reply 5):
not related to the post,

How is bringing up the pettiness of unions in a thread about union pettiness "not related" Silly?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineFetheroleather From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3912 times:

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 20):

There is little to zero animosity with the NY integration. What animosity exists, albeit small, is the Frontier integration. Personally, it was 20 + years ago. Let it go. All any animosity does is cause stress to the bearer.



I disagree with your assesment EwrCabinCrew.Ask the PEX people who got screwed out of seniority, even though they brought the EWR hub,747's 727's and 737's to the CO mix.They might not say it out loud,but believe me,every time they bid,they feel the screw job.The few times there is any vindication is for non-revving and deadheading purposes,when DOH is used,but bidding is still a sore spot. The FL girls did a better job at fighting for their seniority( partly because they showed up in court en masse while the CO people did not ) partly because it was part of Lorenzos divide and conquer tactics.Fairly or not,they got DOH for bidding and new hire pay back in 1986 which was still only a 5 yr scale because of the 83 bk,but you must remember that you can always make up pay,but never make up seniority.


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