RobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3935 posts, RR: 19 Posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2935 times:
Greetings all,
There has been much talk on here over the past few years about how Lion Air were/are able to afford all their new 737-900ERs that they've got on order. There was a lot of "I'll only believe it when I see the planes in Indonesia in Lion Air livery" talk but we were proved wrong and their first four new planes are now merrily trundling passengers about in Indonesia.
However, there appears that there could be some trouble brewing.. During a conversation with a Boeing contact of mine in early August this year where we got talking about "how well" Lion Air seemed to be doing with regards their new planes, it was hinted at by my contact that things were far from being rosy with them and - although gave no specifics for obvious reasons - gave the impression that they aren't going to be receiving many more from their order(s)..
A week or so after this conversation Lion Air took delivery of their fifth 737-900ER, PK-LFJ, and I thought no more of it. However, just looking at the Boeing delivery list for August now, it says that this aircraft was sold to GECAS at delivery and leased to Lion Air.
Am I reading too much into all this and it's a non-event or do you think that there's trouble brewing... ?
MCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8553 posts, RR: 14 Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2913 times:
I think LionAir is selling their planes and leasing them back.
Toxtethogrady From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 938 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2727 times:
CO's done the same thing with much of their fleet; it keeps the debt off the books. On the downside, it had many people thinking they weren't long for the world when 9-11 hit...
Mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6181 posts, RR: 74 Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2580 times:
"Not rosy" may not be the exact choice of word I would use...
1. 2 hard landings almost happened on the -900ER since it's introduction. Much to alert the factory's pilots... and the flight ops manual is being updated etc to prevent "old habits creeping back onto a new plane".
2. Lion is not having a nice time trying to find pilots for the -900ER. They are having a salary squeeze (30% rise in captain's pay for 734 and 739) to prevent the pilots leaving after their contracts finished... this is an industry wide problem here, but Lion is the one most exposed.
3. Sources inside Lion says that Boeing is imposing a strict 739 pilot approval scheme, that is, any pilot going to the 739 must have spent at least 1000hrs on the 734. This has peeved off a lot of the MD pilots at Lion (who are now looking at different airlines to go to). The different method and operational philosophies in Lion between the 734/9 and the MD80/90 is beginning to take its strain.
4. Sold to GECAS? Interesting. This would be different from the other four aircraft (I am guessing). LFF is if I remember correctly, "...IS THE PROPERTY OF OCEANIC AVIATION 1 LIMITED AND IS SUBJECT TO A FIRST RANKING MORTGAGE IN FAVOUR OF HSH NORDBANK AG SINGAPORE BRANCH AS SECURITY TRUSTEE AND A SECOND RANKING MORTGAGE IN FAVOUR OF PACIFIC AVIATION 1 SAS."
As far as I know, things between Boeing and Lion isn't as rosy as the PR guys say (there have been a few nightmares I am told), but it isn't an everyday battle a hair breadth short of litigation/lawsuit either...
Quote: gave the impression that they aren't going to be receiving many more from their order(s)..
The delivery schedule is 1 739ER a month. When that gets disrupted, then something is going on!
Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
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