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New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America  
User currently offlineB2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 703 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7787 times:

Even CAAC calls it "Initial Planning" and sorry no English version is available.
http://www.caac.gov.cn/A1/200709/t20070911_7920.html


For 2008:
CA Beijing-Berlin 7 weekly starting Mar 2008.
CA Beijing-Istanbul 7 weekly starting Mar 2008.
CA Beijing-Warsaw 7 weekly starting Oct 2008.

CZ Beijing-Newark 7 weekly starting Jul 2008.
CZ Guangzhou-Moscow 7 weekly starting Oct 2008

MU Shanghai-Los Angeles 2 weekly Jun 2008.

HU Beijing-Berlin 4 weekly May 2008
HU Beijing-Seattle 4 weekly Jun 2008

FM Shanghai-Vienna 5 weekly 2008 summer/fall
FM Shanghai-Hamburg 3 weekly 2008 summer/fall
FM Shanghai-Zurich 3 weekly 2008 summer/fall

For 2009:

CA Beijing-Toronto 7 weekly Mar 2009
CA Beijing-WashingtonDC 7 weekly Mar2009
CA Shanghai-San Francisco 7 weekly Mar2009
CA Beijing-Manchester 7 weekly Mar 2009
CA Beijing-Zurich 7 weekly Mar 2009
CA Beijing-Dusseldorf 7 weekly Oct 2009
CA Beijing-Vienna 7 weekly Oct 2009
CA Shanghai-Rome 7 weekly Oct 2009
CA Beijing-Milan 7 weekly Oct 2009

CZ Beijing-Detroit 7 weekly Mar 2009
CZ Beijing-London 7 weekly Mar 2009
CZ Guangzhou-Vancouver 7 weekly Jul 2009

HU Beijing-Chicago 7 wwekly Jun2009
HU Beijing-Newark 7 weekly Oct2009

FM Shanghai-Seattle 3 weekly Summer/Fall 2009
FM Shanghai-Los Angeles 7 weekly Summer/Fall 2009

Sounds like a huge plan. The article did mention to 'co-ordinate' with the new deliveries of 787/380s.

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTwoLz2Rn From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 452 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7766 times:

wow...would never have thought of CZ coming to DTW!

User currently offlineB2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7751 times:

Quoting TwoLz2Rn (Reply 1):
would never have thought of CZ coming to DTW!

Nothing solid here though...but it seems well timed for NW's application to start DTW-PEK on Mar 09. By then CZ would have already been a skyteam member. Wonder if this would be a codeshare with NW on NW metals.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33033 posts, RR: 71
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days ago) and read 7606 times:

Quoting TwoLz2Rn (Reply 1):
wow...would never have thought of CZ coming to DTW!

I wouldn't hold my breathe on that one.



a.
User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2090 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days ago) and read 7595 times:

Here is an English version by Bloomberg.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...1082&sid=ayKziNsynIMw&refer=canada



John@SFO
User currently offlinePA101 From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7564 times:

Wow!

CA and HU to TXL/SXF, and FM to HAM??? Sounds great!


User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7435 times:

Quoting B2443 (Thread starter):
CA Beijing-WashingtonDC 7 weekly Mar2009

I never suspected that UA would face competition on this route so soon. If CA starts flying to IAD, three major Asian carriers, CA, KE, and NH, will offer daily nonstop transpacific flights from Washington to the three major Far Eastern cities, NRT, PEK, and ICN. IAD is becoming well connected toall parts of the globe. We now have direct flights to major centers in the Far East, Europe, the Middle East (KWI, DOH, RUH, and JED), Africa (ADD, DKR, and JNB), and Latin America (MEX, GUA, SAL, SJO, GIG, GRU,and EZE). I hope that AI joins CA in starting flights to IAD by 2009.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7684 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7331 times:

So MU is reducing LAX to 2x weekly??? What gives?


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2090 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7268 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 7):
So MU is reducing LAX to 2x weekly??? What gives?

Or maybe their adding (2) flights for a total of 9.



John@SFO
User currently offlinePapatango From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 523 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7243 times:

Well the Chinese have announced their new routes when the DOT announce ours?

User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4994 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7092 times:

Detroit-Beijing? Am I missing something?

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33033 posts, RR: 71
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7059 times:

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 10):
Detroit-Beijing? Am I missing something?

Half the routes on this list will never happen. Sort of like Hanian's Boston service.



a.
User currently offlineZL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6948 times:

Quoting Papatango (Reply 9):
Well the Chinese have announced their new routes when the DOT announce ours?

I'm suspecting that DOT would like to announce it as late as possible, because of the "2007 frequency".

DOT probably wants to award it to DL, but is relunctant to announce it early, as DL can't start service till Mar 08 but NW promises to start within 60 days of the final award. If DOT makes the decision too early, it may be subject to criticism from the public for not being able to maximize the public interest.

NW will use 747, and will start much earlier -- but DOT may prefer a new entrant more than anything.


User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25626 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6733 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
Half the routes on this list will never happen. Sort of like Hainan's Boston service.

I wouldn't believe any HU new route plans until they actually begin. They also announced new service to GVA early this year, to start in July. It never happened.
http://fec2.mofcom.gov.cn/aarticle/p...otonews/200703/20070304412396.html


User currently offlineYVR1968 From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6647 times:

Quoting B2443 (Thread starter):
CZ Guangzhou-Vancouver 7 weekly Jul 2009

This was expected to start sooner, but the China desigation of Canada for ADS (approved destination status) has been delayed as well. Therefore, this would make sense for the delay in launching CAN-YVR service.

Same can be said for AC's delay in launching YVR-CAN flights. Without ADS status, the markets would be pretty thin.


User currently offlinePRGLY From Czech Republic, joined Dec 2004, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6541 times:

Surprising me PRG is not on the list. According reports from my collegues from Airport Authority and CAA there were couple of high profile CAAC delegations in PRG discussing opening flights and either CA or CZ seems to be quite decided to open it. According me CZ is more probable due Sky Team connections.


just fly - it is nice
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6440 times:

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 10):
Detroit-Beijing? Am I missing something?

Here is the logic.
Skyteam member...skyteam hub...pick-up connecting traffic.
It is just like KE serving ATL and IAH. They can get DL's and CO's traffic.
DTW-PEK used to be codeshared with CA. But CA is going Star, so might as well have a Skyteam airline fly to a Skyteam hub.

Quoting B2443 (Reply 2):
but it seems well timed for NW's application to start DTW-PEK on Mar 09.

And didn't NW say that they would use a 744 if they got approval in 2008 and if they got it in 2009, they would use a 787? Capacity? Two 787 is just a few more pax than a 744. Basically split the route and the earnings.

There are quite a few in that list that go to hub cities of Alliance partners. This is especially true for the 2008 list for CA, CZ and MU.

CA Beijing-Istanbul: Turkish is looking to Join Star. CA is joining Star.
CA Beijing-Warsaw: Lot is a Star member. CA is joining Star.

CZ Beijing-Newark: CZ is a Skyteam Member. CO is a Skyteam member
CZ Guangzhou-Moscow: CZ is a skyteam member. SU is a Skyteam member.

MU Shanghai-Los Angeles: MU being courted by OneWorld. LA is a OneWorld hub. But this is in the end increased frequency.

Its a simple view but makes sense.

Ultimate question though is which routes will be A380s and which will be 787s?



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlinePavlovsDog From Norway, joined Sep 2005, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6424 times:

Has MU fallen out of favor? They really don't get anything here. CA takes all the spoils.

User currently offlineDeguoren From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5917 times:

Quoting Centrair (Reply 16):
CZ Guangzhou-Moscow: CZ is a skyteam member. SU is a Skyteam member.

Complements their 3 (?) weekly service from URC.

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 17):
Has MU fallen out of favor? They really don't get anything here. CA takes all the spoils.

MU is a strange company. They serve strange national routes and CAAC announces once in a while that they will be merged (with FM, statement in 2006) or sold (statment in 2005/6 to CZ; 2007 investment of SQ) or whatsoever.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
Sort of like Hanian's Boston service.



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):
They also announced new service to GVA early this year, to start in July. It never happened.

Why is HU not starting these services? How is their service to BUD doing?


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8631 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5542 times:

Hainan Airlines. LOL. Whatever. Not in this decade.

User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5400 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
Half the routes on this list will never happen.

My thoughts as well. Some just plain do not make sense. Sounds as if carriers are just securing the rights while they can get them. If all these came off, I'd be shocked...impressed but shocked.


User currently offlineDrogba From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4673 times:

Wow, CA really expanding to Europe. I'm really looking forward to see CA and HU in TXL. Are there some reports concerning the a/c? Probably both airlines will use their 767. Hopefully the 7/7 and 4/7 won't be reduced. Some rumours even say, that CA will visit TXL twice a day...


Next trips: TXL-VNO-FRA-ZRH-TXL, TXL-FRA-MAD-MUC-TXL , SXF-NAP-SXF, GWT-TXL
User currently offlineSQ452 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

Quoting Centrair (Reply 16):
CA Beijing-Istanbul: Turkish is looking to Join Star. CA is joining Star.

Turkish is already joining star alliance...it was announced in Dec. 2006 that they will join.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
Half the routes on this list will never happen. Sort of like Hainan's Boston service.

I wouldn't believe any HU new route plans until they actually begin. They also announced new service to GVA early this year, to start in July. It never happened.

Ditto, I don't believe a word coming from the horses mouth when it comes to HU. It's almost laughable how the BOS route hasn't gone anywhere, their credibility as an airline really suffers in my opinion when they have stuff like this happen. If only they could get their act together it would be great.

Quoting Deguoren (Reply 18):
MU is a strange company. They serve strange national routes and CAAC announces once in a while that they will be merged (with FM, statement in 2006) or sold (statment in 2005/6 to CZ; 2007 investment of SQ) or whatsoever.

Agreed, you almost wonder what sort of leverage SQ will have with the decision making process of MU and if they can raise the bar at MU to come up to par (or at least close to it) with SQ. The way I see it, the SQ stake in MU was more for a dollars and cents perspective on the financial possibilities down the road to be reaped from that deal, not the "this is two quality carriers coming together for the future" cause we all know there is such a disparity between MU's product and SQ's. It is my absolute sincere hope that SQ will at least get the people at MU motivated to turn that airline into China's world class carrier because as we all know, there has yet to be a world-class airline emerge from China that plays up there service and standard wise with the likes of NH, SQ, CX, EK, BA, VS, etc. etc. etc.



SIN > CVG > BOS
User currently offlineFlyIGuy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4030 times:

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 6):
Quoting B2443 (Thread starter):
CA Beijing-WashingtonDC 7 weekly Mar2009

I never suspected that UA would face competition on this route so soon. If CA starts flying to IAD, three major Asian carriers, CA, KE, and NH, will offer daily nonstop transpacific flights from Washington to the three major Far Eastern cities, NRT, PEK, and ICN. IAD is becoming well connected toall parts of the globe. We now have direct flights to major centers in the Far East, Europe, the Middle East (KWI, DOH, RUH, and JED), Africa (ADD, DKR, and JNB), and Latin America (MEX, GUA, SAL, SJO, GIG, GRU,and EZE). I hope that AI joins CA in starting flights to IAD by 2009.

Air China along with Shanghi Airlines are due to join STAR Alliance on December 12th 2007. So I can understand that they would run this route as it's an Alliance Hub and they would use UA for connecting traffic...Any thoughts?



The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
User currently offlinePellegrine From France, joined Mar 2007, 2468 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4008 times:

Quoting FlyIGuy (Reply 23):
Air China along with Shanghi Airlines are due to join STAR Alliance on December 12th 2007. So I can understand that they would run this route as it's an Alliance Hub and they would use UA for connecting traffic...Any thoughts?

I think that when CA finally joins *A, they'll put a code on UA's flight. Enough traffic for 2 daily services? I don't think so. Maybe if both airlines are using 787 size equipment.



oh boy!!!
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