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Delta Increased 767 Winglet Order  
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4753 posts, RR: 45
Posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days ago) and read 7270 times:

Total of 30 767-300ERs now confirmed (out of 59) for winglet conversion.

Quote:

Aviation Partners Boeing Announces Expanded 767-300ER Winglet Order From Delta Air Lines
Monday September 10, 12:01 am ET
Additional 15 767-300ER Aircraft to get Winglets


SEATTLE, Sept. 10 /PRNewswire/ -- Aviation Partners Boeing has secured an order for 15 additional winglet systems for installation on Delta Air Lines' fleet of international Boeing 767-300ER aircraft. With the expanded order, Delta now plans to install Blended Winglets on 30 767-300 aircraft by early 2010. Delta also has options to retrofit the remainder of its entire 767-300ER fleet with winglets.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070910/aqm142.html?.v=15


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days ago) and read 7254 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Thread starter):
Delta now plans to install Blended Winglets on 30 767-300 aircraft by early 2010.

Why does it take that long?

Anyway, interesting new sight at TXL ahead.


User currently offlineAtlantaflyboy From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7154 times:

Well, according to the article the product will not be fully certified for use on the 767-300ER for over a year (target Nov 2008) - so the fact that DL plans to have 20 aircraft outfitted by early 2009 is impressive. I am sure they do not want aircraft of of service during the highly lucrative Summer 2009 season, so the additional 10 will be completed Fall 2009/Winter 2010.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7139 times:

Quoting Atlantaflyboy (Reply 2):
I am sure they do not want aircraft of of service during the highly lucrative Summer 2009 season, so the additional 10 will be completed Fall 2009/Winter 2010.

APB can't magically produce as many as you want, when you want. They are a business like anyone else, and must keep a sustainable monthly output so that employees and supply chains are optimized.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7131 times:

Does anyone have any clue when the AA testbed will fly? I cant wait. I think this will extend life and value of 767's with winglets in the same way that 737 classics are with winglets. When they get sold 2nd hand, they'll be the first to be scooped up.


Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2571 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6764 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 1):
Why does it take that long?

The actual install might be a lot more involved than you think. Take the 738 as an example. The later ones DL had delivered were desigined with a winglet in mind so the install is fairly simple I've been told. Something like unbolt the old wing tip and bolt on the new one. On the older planes the wing itself needs extensive work to transfer the load of the winglet to the spar. I guess a lot of skin has to be opened up to access the structure. I'll bet this is the case for the 767.


User currently offlineNotdownnlocked From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 943 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6702 times:

Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 5):
Quoting Thorben (Reply 1):
Why does it take that long?

The actual install might be a lot more involved than you think. Take the 738 as an example. The later ones DL had delivered were desigined with a winglet in mind so the install is fairly simple I've been told. Something like unbolt the old wing tip and bolt on the new one. On the older planes the wing itself needs extensive work to transfer the load of the winglet to the spar. I guess a lot of skin has to be opened up to access the structure. I'll bet this is the case for the 767.

Yes what he said plus more work to be done at the wing root. The newer models just bolt on and go.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6694 times:

This is both good and bad.

On one hand, this investment keeps the 767-300ER competitive.

On the other hand, this investment keeps the 767-300ER competitive, so there's reduced need to replace it with shiny next-generation widebodies.

NS


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6596 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 7):
On the other hand, this investment keeps the 767-300ER competitive, so there's reduced need to replace it with shiny next-generation widebodies.

If you replace the interior with the 777 look retrofit and update the engines with the latest components for that model, why does it matter? From the customer POV, the 763 is a pretty nice plane.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6506 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 8):
If you replace the interior with the 777 look retrofit and update the engines with the latest components for that model, why does it matter? From the customer POV, the 763 is a pretty nice plane.

Because we like shiny new widebodies over here at a.net?

NS


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6420 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 9):
Because we like shiny new widebodies over here at a.net?

it's easy to like other people's toys since you don't have to pay for them....

Winglets also push the 767 capabilities so that it could allow DL to expand even further from the US. Since AA has plenty of 777s, they are likely to be more interested in the cost reduction than the added capabilities, at least from the perspective of opening up new routes. Since APB says they are now sold out for the first several years of production, the winglets won't be seen on UA's 763s soon.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9555 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6408 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Thread starter):

i sure that DL has options to add winglets to all 738s ,752s and 763ERs but i could be wrong and you would no more than i would



yep.
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4753 posts, RR: 45
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6320 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 11):
i sure that DL has options to add winglets to all 738s ,752s and 763ERs but i could be wrong and you would no more than i would

The option exists, but I'm not sure they can be installed on the older 757s, someone from TechOps could provide a better answer on that one.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineUshermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2965 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6300 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 8):
From the customer POV, the 763 is a pretty nice plane.

I can only second that. I'd take a 762, 763 or 764 over a T7 any day.



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlineJustloveplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1062 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6194 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 7):
On one hand, this investment keeps the 767-300ER competitive.

On the other hand, this investment keeps the 767-300ER competitive, so there's reduced need to replace it with shiny next-generation widebodies.

Hah! this is too funny...

Notice how these winglets show up AFTER the 787 is sold out through 2015!  rotfl 


User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5913 times:

So, does this mean the 763's will be able to get PTV's?

Signed,

(you know who)


User currently offlineWingletsman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5846 times:

cool... what will they look like?!?!
 Smile


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9555 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 15):

So, does this mean the 763's will be able to get PTV's?

probably not this will let DL put(along with the right crew rest) 763ERs on 12 hours and over trips



yep.
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4753 posts, RR: 45
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5449 times:

Guys - PTVs aren't dead in the water for Delta's 767-300ERs.

Winglets enable greater payload/range. New seats enable weight reduction. Refitting some of the cabin fixtures with lighter-weight structures will help to.

Because DL is removing the CRTs and replacing them with LCDs is no final nail in the coffin for Delta fitting it's 76E fleet with PTVs.

Time will tell, so it's not next summer, but doesn't mean in the future it won't. Delta's aware of the ever so large faction of a.netters that choose an airline based on PTVs alone and would never want to let you down...

 Wink



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineTwolz2rn From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 452 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5302 times:

I remember some time ago there being pictures of an AA 767 with the winglets...

does anyone know where they are??


User currently offlineVHECA From Australia, joined May 2007, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4519 times:

Quoting Twolz2rn (Reply 19):
I remember some time ago there being pictures of an AA 767 with the winglets...

does anyone know where they are??

I am still fairly new here so i am unable to do the proper linky thing, but, if you search "AA 762 Upgrades" they have some photos of the winglets, but not attached to any plane, or fitted profile shots!

I hope that this helps.

VHECA



Types Flown on - 312,320,722,732,733,73H,73W,742,743,74C,752,762,AB4,D1C,D28,DHT,F27,L11
User currently offlineBoeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1029 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3472 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 12):
The option exists, but I'm not sure they can be installed on the older 757s, someone from TechOps could provide a better answer on that one.

They can be added to any 757, we are AAdding winglets to AAll our 757's and we have some old airframes, pushing 53K hours on the average.

David



Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8633 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3293 times:

I have also heard that older 757s cannot be wingletted. There are some differences between a 1984 757 and 1994 757, that is about all the detail I am good for. Anyone else know?

User currently offlineBrucek From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3035 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 8):
If you replace the interior with the 777 look retrofit and update the engines with the latest components for that model

Are there retrofits to the B763 engines that make them more efficient? How does that work? I always thought that an engine design was frozen once in production, and the same standard parts used for the life of that particular model engines' production.

Thanks, Bruce.


User currently offlineSilverbird757 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2957 times:

Just wanted to put my two cents in.......There are no wingletted 767-300's as of yet. AA is lending a 767 nose number 389(I think) to Boeing for testing.  bigthumbsup  Be looking for it sometime mid next year.

25 Gigneil : Not exactly lending... leasing. NS
26 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : I think the LCDs are a pretty good indicator that PTVs in coach are at best a long time away. If DL was going to install ptvs any time soon i really d
27 Panamair : Current longest out of JFK is JFK-IST; however, JFK-TLV starting in March will be longer by about 600 nm. However, system-wide, ATL-LOS, starting in
28 MCOAviationFan : I would not be surprised to see DL begin additional Middle East routes from JFK. I believe JFK-CAI is a strong possibility for next summer. The 767-3
29 Post contains images KC135TopBoom : This can be done by two ways. First softwear changes can effect things like maximum thrust, fuel burn rates, and maximum turbine rotation speed. The
30 Jfk777 : Atlanta to Moscow has to be up there in miles, its must be 11 hours from SVO to Atlanta.
31 DAL767400ER : Correct, 5078nm. Second would be ATL-ATH, at 4954nm, followed by JFK-TLV at 4934nm. ATL-SVO is only 4675nm.
32 Mu2 : Is this mod just for the 300? Could US use them on the 200s (not that they would or should)?
33 Tdscanuck : The 757 wing was redesigned a little bit when the 757-300 was developed. Thicker gauge in places, primarily. The redesigned wing went on to the 757-2
34 WorldTraveler : The winglets for the 763 are to be at first put on DL’s GE powered 763s since they are more powerful engine than DL’s PW engines. Installing the w
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