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Horizon Grounds All Q400 W/ High Cycles  
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6006 posts, RR: 24
Posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8410 times:

Horizon has now grounded all Q400 with over a certain amount of cycles in response to SAS incidents. Seems they are joining OS and I am sure others. Maybe this will open up Bombardier eyes since there rep is to not help carriers with issues.

ASSFO


"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6271 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8191 times:

I just watched the story on KPTV here in Oregon-apparently, over 100 flights have been cancelled today. Glad I'm not flying QX this morning.

The guys on KPTV seem to be leaning towards Bombardier as the party grounding the aircraft-wonder if this is an emergency AD (airworthiness directive)  scratchchin 

As an aside, I've always thought that the Dash 8 had unnaturally long landing gear, but then again, so do the Rockwell Aero Commander and the Fokker F.27, and yet they haven't (to my knowledge  Wink ) had problems with main gear collapsing.



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9385 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8166 times:

That will cause some real problems in the Pacific Northwest. Do you have any idea how many planes have been grounded? A 100 flights is a lot to be cancelled so far, but that isn't the entire Q400 fleet.

I hope other forms of transportation are available. I presume a lot of people will be driving. It's unfortunate that United Express out of SEA is just a fraction of what it once was and doesn't even really compete with QX anymore.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3372 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8153 times:

How many of Qx's -400's fall into the high cycle category?


"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8154 times:

Quoting AS739X (Thread starter):
Horizon has now grounded all Q400 with over a certain amount of cycles in response to SAS incidents. Seems they are joining OS and I am sure others. Maybe this will open up Bombardier eyes since there rep is to not help carriers with issues.

This was as a result of a Bombardier recommendation. They have requested all frames with more than 10k cycles be grounded pending investigation.

NS


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6006 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8091 times:

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 3):

19 Q400's

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8091 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1):
The guys on KPTV seem to be leaning towards Bombardier as the party grounding the aircraft-wonder if this is an emergency AD (airworthiness directive)

It's not an AD as of now. However, Bombardier has issued an All Operator Message that "highly recommends" inspection of all landing gear with more than 10,000 cycles before further flight. It wouldn't surprise me if that becomes an emergency AD today or tomorrow.

Tom.


User currently offlineFlashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2896 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7919 times:
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So far, I count 16 cancelled arrivals and 17 cancelled departures at PDX. Really not bad all things considered. Impacted routes from PDX are SEA, BOI, YVR, GEG, SFO, SJC, SMF, RDD, RNO.

There are also a couple of hefty delays on flights later in the day, the worst being a midday Seattle Shuttle departure that's showing a 1hr20m delay, a early PM arrival from BOI that's 2h30m delayed, along with a couple of 45min delays. (A 1hr20m PDX-SEA delay seems silly - you can drive halfway there in that time, but I'm sure it has to do with positioning for follow-on flights.)


User currently offlineAirlineBrat From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 646 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7859 times:

Looks like they are ferrying the Q400 sitting at ACV right now up to Spokane within the next hour.

This morning's ACV-RDD-LAX and LAX-ACV-RDD-PDX are canceled.

There is a maintenance base in GEG? I thought the main MX base was in PDX?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/QXE800

[Edited 2007-09-12 18:51:47]


I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
User currently offlineKBFIspotter From United States of America, joined May 2005, 729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7730 times:

We have three on the ground right now in SEA that are currently undergoeing inspection. Our out of service delay page reads like a nightmare at the moment. It is going to be very interesting when I report to work later today.

Quoting AirlineBrat (Reply 8):
There is a maintenance base in GEG? I thought the main MX base was in PDX?

There is a mod line at GEG, as well as a line mx base. the majority of the mx is done at PDX.

Kris



Proud to be an A&P!!!
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6006 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7666 times:

Alaska is adding extra section to move people now.

SEA/GEG/PDX/RNO/BOI/YVR seeing extar Alaska flights

Looks like 754AS (spirit of Alaska) and 960AS and 796AS are in extra segment role today


ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6271 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7647 times:

Quoting KBFIspotter (Reply 9):
We have three on the ground right now in SEA that are currently undergoeing inspection. Our out of service delay page reads like a nightmare at the moment. It is going to be very interesting when I report to work later today.

So, has Bombardier said what the offending part(s) is/are, and what exactly you're looking for? Hopefully, you are at liberty to say...  Wink



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineAirlineBrat From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 646 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7621 times:

Looks like QX is ferrying the Q400 from ACV to GEG right now.....

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/QXE813

Perhaps AS will send one of their jets down here to ACV and RDD to handle stranded passengers  crossfingers 



I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6006 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7558 times:

Quoting AirlineBrat (Reply 12):

No, you won't see Alaska at ACV or RDD. If anything they will get one of the good Q400's in there at some point in the day.QX is really making all efforts to get passengers to their destinations. The problem they may run into is just not having enough crews to keep the planes flying through the late evening to accommodate the people.

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineFlashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2896 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7546 times:
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It appears another is ferrying YYJ to PDX right now: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/QXE803

Are they also ferrying a CR7 from DEN to BOI for stranded pax? http://flightaware.com/live/flight/QXE9850

According to the Web FIDS at flypdx.com, AS has these extra sections scheduled today to/from PDX:
7245: PDX-BOI
7295: SEA-PDX
7296: PDX-SEA
7229: SEA-PDX

This is definitely hitting QX's overall operation, as we'd all expect. Now seeing lots of 2h30m+ delays on the Seattle Shuttle flights that are still scheduled to operate. One shuttle arrival from Seattle is 3h45m delayed. A RNO flight also has a 2h delay.

Even still, pretty impressed that QX is doing as well as it is under rough circumstances. According to FlightStats, QX is running 89% on-time for departures and 93% on-time for arrivals so far today, despite 114 cancelled flights (as of 11:30am PDT). I think that's pretty remarkable, and shows how hard they're working to keep things as smooth as they can...

[Edited 2007-09-12 20:31:43]

User currently offlineKBFIspotter From United States of America, joined May 2005, 729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7468 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 11):
So, has Bombardier said what the offending part(s) is/are, and what exactly you're looking for? Hopefully, you are at liberty to say...

I am just coming off of my weekend, so today begins my new work week. I found out about the groundings when I logged onto our internal website to check email...

As of now, I will not be able to find out more until I get to work at 8 tonight. If I can, I will certianly provide details on the inspections and what is the suspect parts.

All of the mechanics at SEA loathe the Q400 due to the extra work they make for us. I guess it is job security.

Kris



Proud to be an A&P!!!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6271 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7220 times:

Quoting KBFIspotter (Reply 15):
All of the mechanics at SEA loathe the Q400 due to the extra work they make for us. I guess it is job security.

Kris

I'd love to see the jack stands that you guys have to use to swing the gear on a Dash 8  Wink



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7212 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7208 times:

How long does it take to reach 10 K cycles.

User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4133 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7149 times:

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 17):
How long does it take to reach 10 K cycles.

Well assuming what Horizon uses them for, you can figure an average of maybe 7 cycles per day. That would be about 50 cycles a week, which equates to about 2600 cycles a year. So you would figure a little less than 4 years. But this is just a real rough estimate, and doesn't count C checks and stuff like that. But I would think it would get pretty close despite that.


User currently offlineKBFIspotter From United States of America, joined May 2005, 729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7104 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 16):
I'd love to see the jack stands that you guys have to use to swing the gear on a Dash 8

Well, if an aircraft requires gear swings, we try our hardest to ferry the plane to PDX. It is a pain in the a** to do that kind of work in SEA as we do not have the manpower or proper facilities to do the job. In a worse case scenerio, we will do it, with manpower assistance from PDX. As for the jacks themselves, just picture a 737 tail jack, and you have our wing jacks...

Kris



Proud to be an A&P!!!
User currently offlineATCGOD From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 661 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7070 times:

Quoting AS739X (Thread starter):
Horizon has now grounded all Q400 with over a certain amount of cycles in response to SAS incidents.

Some Q400's came and left BOI this morning. One left very early and said that they would be "gear down" for their flight to GEG...thought that was interesting (QXE801, I believe). It was pretty slow today in BOI without the Q4's. I remember a DH8B coming in this morning and leaving but never returning.

Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 14):
Are they also ferrying a CR7 from DEN to BOI for stranded pax?

Yes, it came in while I was on shift...very unusual callsign for BOI so it must have been a replacement or ferry.


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6006 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6968 times:

Quoting ATCGOD (Reply 20):

Yeah, that must have been one of the 19 planes over 10K cycles that was ferried or grounded for mx. This left QX with 14 Q400's to cover a lot of ground. And if you add in that they are the a/c of choice on some long flights (West Montana, BOI-LAX,etc). It sure left QX in a pinch. But I think QX and AS did a good job dealing with the problem. I know many Bay Area pax had been rerouted already when I arrived at 5am.

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineQXFLYINGCOUG From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6930 times:

Just noticed there was a QX plane flying STS-GEG yesterday and right now. I guess the grounding may be a reason for the strange routing... probably getting it's landing gear looked at. My parents were flying EAT-SEA and there flight is super behind schedule and it's just a Q-200 flight!


--GO COUGS--
User currently offlineKBFIspotter From United States of America, joined May 2005, 729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6884 times:

Quoting AS739X (Reply 21):
This left QX with 14 Q400's to cover a lot of ground.

That does not count Q400s that are down for other mx issues. At last look, there were 24 of 33 Q400 out of service. That is big chunk of the fleet right there... QX must be inspecting the entire fleet, not just the high time ones, as a few of the new aircraft are down for gear inspections (delivered in the past few months).

Kris



Proud to be an A&P!!!
User currently offlineSea2Pdx From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6777 times:

Quoting KBFIspotter (Reply 23):
QX must be inspecting the entire fleet

Correct. This was going to happen as soon as Transport Canada issued their AD. All Q400s were going to require a MLG check before their next revenue flight. When necessary, the aircraft will ferry to a maintenance station for the inspection and then be redeployed into revenue service. To be clear, this was only for the aircraft that were *not* part of the original 19. Those 19 are still awaiting more detailed instruction from Bombardier on what the inspection will entail and how long it will take for them to enter revenue service again.


25 KELPkid : Just out of (regulatory) curiousity: Does a Transport Canada AD automatically become an FAA AD? I know that in many parts of the world, an FAA AD aut
26 EMBQA : No.... as they operate under different regulations... but it is given a serious look
27 Post contains images CitrusCritter : So how long until the Denver news denounces F9's Q400s because of this?
28 Freshlove1 : I am sure it may make the news as a general story but as long as F9 does the inspections and maintains the aircraft properly the Denver News hopefull
29 Post contains links and images RyDawg82 : They are on the verge of doing as such http://www.myfoxcolorado.com/myfox/p...es/ContentDetail?contentId=4334647 Ryan
30 UnknownUser : Absolutely the shittiest headline for an article I've seen in a while. The only paragraph that relates is the last and no where does it say that they
31 Socalatc : Looks like QX has canceled the same amount of flights tomorrow, and probably more since now even the new Q-400's are out of service. Alaska has added
32 AAmd11 : As has been mentioned, it was on the advice of Bombardier that higher cycle aircraft were grounded. All carriers with frames with over 10,000 cycles w
33 BlueSkys : Anyone see Porter Air grounding their fleet??? They have a very young Q400 fleet, but this AD seems imminent.
34 F9Animal : I agree with you 110%.
35 Post contains links RyDawg82 : Link for "Frontier Evaluating New Turboprop's Safety" updated.... Also a second story "Bombardier Orders Turboprops Grounded" Makes similar reference
36 Post contains images KELPkid : So, Any word yet on what the problem is that they're actually looking for? So far, the actual problem itself that's being inspected for hasn't been re
37 Post contains images KELPkid : KBFI, Any news on what you're looking for with the Q400 landing gear? I'm sure you've put in lots of overtime the past couple of days
38 Post contains images AAmd11 : "Anyone see Porter Air grounding their fleet???" PD's fleet was inspected visually at least twice on Wednesday, in accordance with advice from Transpo
39 ATCGOD : I noticed AS put a -800 on the SEA-BOI flight today instead of the usual -400. No doubt to make up for some lost seats SEA-BOI-SEA.
40 Post contains images HowSwedeitis : I wonder how this will affect "The Slog?"
41 KBFIspotter : Actually SEA has been dead... I did two DVIs (Detailed Visual Inspection) of the MLG on two of our recent deliveries Wed night, and we were concentra
42 BlueSkys : A possibility of too much media hype to kill the type?
43 Bok269 : It's always a possibity, but remember it almost always seems that way after a major incident.
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