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Another 2 772LRs For Delta  
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4792 posts, RR: 25
Posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 12790 times:
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According to a Q3 Investor update filed today, DL has exercised options for another two 772LRs for delivery in 2009. Total 77Ls ordered to date is now 8 frames, with 3 to be delivered in 2008 and another 5 in 2009.

http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/...et.aspx?FilingID=5422996&Type=HTML

Total of 8 77Ls should allow for up to 5 ULH routes with some operating at less-than-daily frequencies...

[Edited 2007-09-12 15:39:54]

130 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 12735 times:

Great news! Can't wait to see the 77L in DL colours!!!


אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 12678 times:

Good news indeed. Now Delta's 777 fleet is evenly matched. 8 777-232ERs with RR engines, and now 8 777-232LRs with GE engines. Sounds like Delta is coming back!  Wink
Regards.



"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8089 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 12618 times:
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I will cheer when the fleet reaches 30 777 with 777-300ER included. If Delta wants to play with the BIG DOGS it needs 777 at many European cities from JFK especially LHR. If DL wants to be a real not marginal player in the JFK-LHR market it needs the 777 as its plane on the route.

User currently offlineMCOAviationFan From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 12516 times:

Alitalia 744 and Jetlanta called this one last July 29 in a related topic on the DL 777. Note the below response from Jetlanta to a post by myself and Alitalia 744. These folks were right on.  bigthumbsup 


Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 2):
Let them first indicate what they'll be flying with their 6+ 77Ls before we go crazy on 77Ws...shall we?

It's 8 now. Quite possibly more to come.


My apologies. I had to copy and paste rather than quote selected text. My computer would not allow ,e to copy the quoted text.


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5666 posts, RR: 47
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 12503 times:

I have a feeling that the DL 787 order is just around the corner.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4731 posts, RR: 45
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 12325 times:

Well sounds like it's official now  Wink


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5666 posts, RR: 47
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 12194 times:

Anyone know the status of the 125 x 787 order that DL said is coming?


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 12089 times:

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
Total of 8 77Ls should allow for up to 5 ULH routes with some operating at less-than-daily frequencies...

I think it would be nuts to (as TG did) operate any ULH route less frequently than daily. ULH routes demand very high yields, which are only available with daily or higher frequencies.


User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 12044 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 3):
If Delta wants to play with the BIG DOGS it needs 777 at many European cities from JFK especially LHR

Delta is a "big dog" in Europe. Probably the only markets that could consistently support a 777 out of JFK are LHR and CDG. Let's not go crazy...


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12057 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 12024 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 7):
Anyone know the status of the 125 x 787 order that DL said is coming?

DL has said they will order up to 125 B-787s "by the end of this year". I believe it will be a mix of up to 30 B-787-300s, 45 B-787-800s and 50 B-787-900s.

But, it looks like the B-777 will be the true heavy hauler for DL, replacing the B-767-300ER/400ER (which replaced the L-1011s). I don't see DL ordering any more B-777-200ERs, but will instead set the fleet with about 30-35 B-777-200LRs and 50-60 B-777-300ERs. DL will become the first US airline to order the B-777-300ER, but they will be followed by AA, CO, NW, and UA for the type.

The 8 remaining DL B-777-200ERs may be traded to AA for the remaining 15 former TW B-757s with the P&W engines. The DL B-777s have the same RR engines as the AA B-777-200ERs do.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 12009 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 8):
I think it would be nuts to (as TG did) operate any ULH route less frequently than daily. ULH routes demand very high yields, which are only available with daily or higher frequencies.

Too true. That said, depending on the scheduling of the flight, 5 daily flights could in theory be possible with 8 77Ls, if you were to figure that 2 pairs of 3 777s could be used for an Pacific-ATL-Atlantic routing, and the other two for a flight ATL-India. Not sure whether how well that works out in reality, but it should be possible.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8089 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 11998 times:
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I am concerned about DL spreading its self to wide and thin with LAX going international to ?, Atlanta to Sydney, nonstop South Africa, replacing the 777-200ER from JFK to Mumbai and any other myths yet to come.

User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 11980 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 11):
5 daily flights could in theory be possible with 8 77Ls, if you were to figure that 2 pairs of 3 777s could be used for an Pacific-ATL-Atlantic routing, and the other two for a flight ATL-India. Not sure whether how well that works out in reality, but it should be possible.

I would expect DL to use their 777-200LRs to fly transpacific routes out of ATL or perhaps JFK. India is also possible. I would be very surprised if DL were to use 777-200LRs transatlantic.

I don't see how more than four daily services would be possible with a fleet of eight. What is your predicted utilization for five daily routes?


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4792 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 11939 times:
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The current 8 777-200ERs are used on 5 routes - 2 in a westerly direction and 3 going east from the U.S. All are daily except for ICN (4x weekly), and DXB (5x weekly), not counting the ATL-LAX turn in between:

ATL-NRT
ATL-ICN (4x weekly)
ATL-DXB (5x weekly)
ATL-TLV
ATL-JFK-BOM

Hence, it's an easy conclusion that 8 77Ls can do up to 5 routes if they are split between transpacific and transatlantic (much like they are today) with the less-than-daily frequencies on one or two to provide some breathing room. Chances are these 8 will be split between some transpacific and some transatlantic flying (additional India, Africa). Also, remember that they could also sub the current BOM and other routes from the ER to the LR, thus freeing up the ERs for some transpac flying that doesn't need the LR.

[Edited 2007-09-12 17:51:23]

User currently offlineDAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 11888 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 13):
I would expect DL to use their 777-200LRs to fly transpacific routes out of ATL or perhaps JFK. India is also possible. I would be very surprised if DL were to use 777-200LRs transatlantic.

India is what I meant with Atlantic, seeing as how any ATL-India flights should head east instead of west.
And for the heck of it, I speculate on:
HKG-ATL-BOM, 3 planes
PEK-ATL-DEL, 3 planes
ATL-JNB, 2 planes

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
But, it looks like the B-777 will be the true heavy hauler for DL, replacing the B-767-300ER/400ER

DL isn't replacing any 767s with 777s.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
I don't see DL ordering any more B-777-200ERs, but will instead set the fleet with about 30-35 B-777-200LRs and 50-60 B-777-300ERs.

You see DL flying 80-95 777NGs? Sorry, I'm a Deltoid like many here, but that is just way too unrealistic to even contemplate.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
DL will become the first US airline to order the B-777-300ER, but they will be followed by AA, CO, NW, and UA for the type.

Agreed on DL being the first customer, but don't see any other carrier follow save maybe. CO prefers to grow with planes the size of 772/789s, NW doesn't have any 777s to begin with, and UA is more a 748/380 candidate in my book.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
The 8 remaining DL B-777-200ERs may be traded to AA for the remaining 15 former TW B-757s with the P&W engines.

DL won't trade in even a single measly 777 for 757s.


User currently offlineMCOAviationFan From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 11841 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 12):
replacing the 777-200ER from JFK to Mumbai and any other myths yet to come.

Replacing the 777-200ER from JFK-BOM is not a myth. Jim Whitehurst stated on numerous occasions before he left DL that the plan was to shift these aircraft to ATL-PVG, if awarded, and allocate the first two 777LRs to the JFK-BOM route. I doubt this plan has changed just because Whitehurst left.

ATL-SYD is strictly an a.net rumor for now. No mention of this from DL and many of the most knowledgeable posters have stated there are no plans for this service at this time. The LAX international push is a couple of years away. Most transpac service would require 777s so DL needs to wait until more 777s are delivered before embarking on this path. Using 767-300s transpac is also an a.net rumor at this time.

What Ed Bastian has stated is that DL will continue pushing international expansion with an emphasis on Asia, Africa, and the Middle East. The orders for eight 777LRs (possibly more to come according to Jetlanta) reinforce Bastian's statement as they will most likely be used for ATL - Asia service in addition to ATL-JNB nonstop and ATL-BOM nonstop. The Middle East can be served from JFK with the 767-300ER especially with winglets added.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4792 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 11784 times:
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Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 16):
The Middle East can be served from JFK with the 767-300ER especially with winglets added.

Only the Middle East "side" with TLV, AMM, CAI, BEY.... The other 'side' like DXB, AUH, DOH, BAH, KWI, etc., cannot be done nonstop with the 763ER even with winglets, or at least not without some payload restrictions.

Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 16):
Using 767-300s transpac is also an a.net rumor at this time.

Actually, when the winglet installation was announced, Whitehurst mentioned that this would allow for some LAX-transpac flights, though he quickly stepped back and said "it doesn't mean we will..."

[Edited 2007-09-12 18:18:27]

[Edited 2007-09-12 18:18:59]

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 11757 times:

In any case, congratulations to DL on ordering another two of these magnificent airplanes.....the mix of 8 772ERs and 8 772LRs (for now) will give DL much flexibility in operating longhaul and ultra long haul routes.

User currently offlineSxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1250 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 11681 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
The 8 remaining DL B-777-200ERs may be traded to AA for the remaining 15 former TW B-757s with the P&W engines. The DL B-777s have the same RR engines as the AA B-777-200ERs do.

there were 22 PW-powered TW 757s originally acquired by AA. Here's a full list (by manufacturers number) and were they are currently committed:

27620 DL
27624 DL
27625 DL
28160 ILFC - STORED
28162 DL
28163 DL
28165 DL
28168 DL
28169 DL
28173 DL
28479 AA
28480 ETHIOPIAN
28482 BLUE PANORAMA
28483 BLUE PANORAMA
28485 AA
28487 UZBEKISTAN
28488 UZBEKISTAN
29378 FAR EASTERN
29385 FAR EASTERN
29954 DL
30319 ETHEOPIAN
30340 AA

The three listed with AA are leased from Pegasus Aviation, which has had discussions with DL for those frames.


User currently offlineLAXorLGWonDL From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 11634 times:

Quoting Panamair (Reply 17):

Only the Middle East "side" with TLV, AMM, CAI, BEY.... The other 'side' like DXB, AUH, DOH, BAH, KWI, etc., cannot be done nonstop with the 763ER even with winglets, or at least not without some payload restrictions.

Perhaps I'm asking a silly questions...but I am curious. Does anyone know what cargo loads are like from the ME? Given the growth (I was in Qatar in July and blown away by it), I'd think it's pretty good.

Thanks!



Next Up: STR, JFK, ATL, TPA, ANC
User currently offlineMCOAviationFan From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 11624 times:

Quoting Panamair (Reply 17):
Only the Middle East "side" with TLV, AMM, CAI, BEY.... The other 'side' like DXB, AUH, DOH, BAH, KWI, etc., cannot be done nonstop with the 763ER even with winglets, or at least not without some payload restrictions.

Excellent point! I do see JFK-CAI as a strong possibility for summer 2008. AMM is also possible, although I believe, not likely at least for 2008. DL has shied away from one-stop flights such as the JFK-CAI-DXB route they operated for a short time in 2001 so I do not see these type of routings being used. I believe DL will stay with nonstop routings from the U.S. for their international flights.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 11482 times:

Quoting Panamair (Reply 14):
ATL-NRT
ATL-ICN (4x weekly)
ATL-DXB (5x weekly)
ATL-TLV
ATL-JFK-BOM

Hence, it's an easy conclusion that 8 77Ls can do up to 5 routes if they are split between transpacific and transatlantic (much like they are today) with the less-than-daily frequencies on one or two to provide some breathing room. Chances are these 8 will be split between some transpacific and some transatlantic flying (additional India, Africa). Also, remember that they could also sub the current BOM and other routes from the ER to the LR, thus freeing up the ERs for some transpac flying that doesn't need the LR.

I don't see DL (or anyone else) putting 777-200ERs on transpacific routes in order to shift 777-200LRs to transatlantic routes. The other way around seems much more likely.

It seems very likely that DL will put the 777-200LRs on longer routes than the 777-200ER (on average). Therefore, it is not far-fetched to imagine 30 weekly frequencies dropping to 28. That would even be optimistic if it were not for the likelihood that no tags would be involved.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 15):
India is what I meant with Atlantic, seeing as how any ATL-India flights should head east instead of west.
And for the heck of it, I speculate on:
HKG-ATL-BOM, 3 planes
PEK-ATL-DEL, 3 planes
ATL-JNB, 2 planes

Given that rotation, the utilization would be ... ?


User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3142 posts, RR: 35
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 11436 times:

Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 4):
Alitalia 744 and Jetlanta called this one last July 29 in a related topic on the DL 777. Note the below response from Jetlanta to a post by myself and Alitalia 744. These folks were right on. bigthumbsup


Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 2):
Let them first indicate what they'll be flying with their 6+ 77Ls before we go crazy on 77Ws...shall we?

It's 8 now. Quite possibly more to come.


My apologies. I had to copy and paste rather than quote selected text. My computer would not allow ,e to copy the quoted text.

Thanks for not making me say "I told you so."  Smile

These 8 are not likely the last of the 777-200LR's for Delta.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 11245 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 8):
I think it would be nuts to (as TG did) operate any ULH route less frequently than daily. ULH routes demand very high yields, which are only available with daily or higher frequencies.

Except that some of the LRs might be used to add a 2nd frequency to another gateway, in which case DL would still be daily on every day of the week and double daily on others. TG doesn’t have multiple gateways to use.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 15):
HKG-ATL-BOM, 3 planes

ATL-HKG is too long to be able to fly it roundtrip so that it would leave and be back in time to hit the connecting banks – and ATL has them arriving very early and leaving very late. ATLHKG and anything south of it (BKK, SIN) would require 2 A/C with some wasted time in the rotation. For now, DL will not likely be wasting any aircraft time. Even JFKHKG cannot be flown with less than 2 aircraft.


There will be more 777LRs for DL. Boeing only needs 18 months notice which is why DL is getting the 8 on order fairly fast. They still have not had to order what they will need for the winter of 2009-10 or beyond.


25 MCOflyer : Would DL switch the ICN and NRT route for a LR? If so, this would free up the 200ER for Atlantic runs to CDG amd LHR. Hunter
26 UAL777UK : Dont we mean say order 30 with options for the remainder (whatever models). That would be a shit load of debt to take on board at once. I will believ
27 Alitalia744 : You're a more humble man than I am my friend!
28 Zvezda : ATL-BKK and ATL-SIN are not plausible nonstop routes. There is no chance that DL could make money operating them with a 777-200LR. That seems likely
29 Slovacek747 : I believe HKG is a possibiltiy from ATL. It is over 1000 miles shorter than EWR-
30 Gigneil : EWR-HKG is over 300 standard miles shorter than ATL-HKG. NS
31 Zvezda : If UA can't make LAX-HKG work with all their LAX feed, I don't see how DL might. Admittedly, the 777-200LR is better suited to the route than UA's 74
32 Post contains images DeltaDC9 : Where did the go? Cant see 300s, and when you add the 764s to the 777s, you have a respectable number of big planes. I hope so. Thas what I was think
33 DeltaL1011man : ATL-HKG 7298nm ATL-PEK 6243nm ATL-PVG 6656nm ATL-BKK 7958nm ATL-SIN 8695nm ATL-SYD 8068nm ATL-MEL 8419nm ATL-DEL 6923nm ATL-BOM 7295nm ATL-CAN 7247nm
34 Gigneil : The chances of them taking them fitted with tanks is zero. Nobody has yet selected that option. Its extra weight that isn't needed for the routes that
35 Brilondon : I would like to think that DL is a "BIG DOG" and what does having the 777 in its fleet have to do with it. They have more destinations in Europe then
36 777STL : Somehow I doubt DL is going to order 125 787s at one time..... Maybe on certain routes, but I don't see replacing DL replacing the 763/764 with the 7
37 Zvezda : I think some of those would be options, not firm orders right away. Including options and "purchase rights" QF ordered 115 787s. DL are a lot bigger
38 Panamair : Ain't going to happen...still too few 777s to 'waste' on CDG and LHR. As we've discussed on here before, we won't be seeing any DL 777s in Continenta
39 DeltaL1011man : the only way there will b a 777(a DL T7 that is) in LHR or CDG iis if A) its a spare or B) DL orders alot of T7s or C) DL order 773ERs and have alot
40 Post contains images DAL767400ER : Or D) Delta merges with either AA or UA , though that is probably even less likely than DL getting 95 777NGs, which in itself, as said, is unrealisti
41 DeltaL1011man : true an true
42 DL767captain : DL keeps ordering more 777s, any chance we will just see more 777 orders instead of 787s until 787 become available, and would the 777 be an ok 767 re
43 Alitalia744 : Because to many, the age-old adage of "size does matter" still continues....
44 Atlantaflyboy : And percieved size matters even more - in all actuality there is not a vast difference in the number of passengers DL carries on their 777's and 764's
45 DeltaL1011man : yea and then they will order the A350 to repace the old T7s
46 Da man : Let's not turn this thread into an Airbus versus Boeing thread, please?
47 Bok269 : Congrats to Boeing and DL. Can't wait for the 787 order.
48 Itsnotfinals : Delta bought engines too. it's a aircraft, not just a "frame" From the press release " Fleet - During the September 2007 quarter, Delta exercised opt
49 Gigneil : No. NS
50 Post contains images Itsnotfinals : so you're encouraging the use of an incorrect term among aviation enthusists? why bother to learn about the topic you love and use correct terms?
51 Post contains images Bok269 : Not that big a deal...they ordered the frame from Boeing, which is what he is referencing. Its just the way some people refer to an aircraft order. O
52 Kaitak744 : Just because the 777-200LR has long range does not mean DL will always use it on long range flights. On flights ~5,000nm or more, the 777-200LR's eff
53 Post contains images Itsnotfinals : yes, if you just say "Aircraft" that would include all those parts   "Frames" is incorrect. "some people" should learn English. Boeing sells "Aircra
54 DeltaL1011man : never said they would order just noted and never said that they would use the 9420nm of range just noted but i do think that if any 2nd hand 772ERs c
55 Jacobin777 : I agree... ...I doubt DL will order more than 10 -300ER's...there are only a handful of routes which would support such a large plane....if anything,
56 JRDC930 : No Offense but people have had this same feeling for over a year now... and nothing. DL wont order the 787 for quite a while.
57 Kaitak744 : I apologize, I honestly did not know the 767-400ER had just 20 fewer seats. Delta will order the 787. In fact, they already have slots reserved. They
58 Max Q : Those range figures for the -LR are impressive You do realize those are still air numbers ? There's not too much of that !
59 Post contains images Bok269 : THe engines come from a third party (P&W, RR, GE, etc.). Whether Boeing brokers the deal I don't know. They definately don't sell the seats and a lot
60 Itsnotfinals : Boeing's Frames are also not made by Boeing. You choose the items you want on the plane and Boeing sources them and installs them on the aircraft and
61 Bok269 : As are the engines, etc. in the first place. As in what flaps, skin, etc.? That is pretty standardized
62 Post contains links Itsnotfinals : As posted above you cannot get a lender to finance the aircraft in an unairworthy state. The engines are negoitiated with the engine manufacturer and
63 DLOnur : Whoah....where did you hear this? An A/C order from DL is purely speculation at this point, unless you have a pretty close seat to Bastian and the BO
64 Kaitak744 : It is common knowledge that Boeing has reserved a sizable amount of slots for major blue chip airlines, should they choose to order. Delta ordering 7
65 Cricket : According top my friends at BOM while DL is a success on the JFK-BOM route, the aircraft are severely payload restricted because the route (with wind
66 HZ747300 : At first I thought that Delta was already flying to Hong Kong. The few times I have been in and out of Hong Kong, there have been Delta 767s at the ai
67 Post contains images Gunsontheroof : Awesome, glad to see DL adding some more 777s, especially in the LR flavor! I will say that as much as I've come to like the new livery, the wavy grav
68 Karan69 : That is indeed correct many a times DL had technical stops at MAN, and at times when the tailwinds are opposing they almost leave the entire baggage
69 Jbmitt : Buying a 787 as an 'investment' is similar to selling life insurance as an investment... a big no no among financial planners. Sure the 787 might be
70 Post contains images DAL767400ER : HAECO (I believe that's the name) does Heavy Maintenance on DL's 767 fleet, so it's not unusual to see a DL 767 sit alongside a CO 767 or 777, even i
71 Zvezda : Tell that to the leasing companies.
72 Sxf24 : There are no slots reserved for DL, or any other airlines who have yet to place orders.
73 DeltaDC9 : That is a reason NOT to buy planes that use 20% less fuel? Its a lot more complex that that, but true for planes in Deltas fleet that are not paid fo
74 Itsnotfinals : that price includes engines, thats the aircraft price not the frame price. big difference.
75 Jfk777 : THE BIG DOGS are serving the big destinations multiple times daily like AA from JFK to LHR with 777 or 744 like Virgin and BA. While DL does fly 763
76 Zvezda : No, several airlines have deposits on slots for 787 deliveries without having placed orders yet. It is common practice to reserve slots while negotia
77 Gigneil : So? Great, AA can make flights between two of the world's largest cities work. WOO HOO. Delta is this country's #1 airline to Europe. Period. NS
78 Brilondon : So you would consider Southwest a puppy?
79 Flynavy : Last time I checked, there was only one "Heathrow" in the world. If LGW was such a marginal market and so insignificant, why does AA serve that airpo
80 Jetlanta : In addition to the points made by others in response to this idiotic statement, I'd add this... Virgin Atlantic is a "BIG DOG" but Delta isn't?
81 KC135TopBoom : So what is going to happen to the one ILFC B-757 (M# 28160) that is stored? Is ILFC offering it to DL, or another airline?
82 Kaitak744 : Yes, there ARE slots reserved by Boeing for certain airlines, especially Delta, American, United, and I think maybe even British Airways. This was al
83 Bok269 : Right, but they are all standardized. The windscreen on a 737-824 is the same as on the 737-823 This debate is getting ridiculous. THe thread starter
84 Itsnotfinals : The poster was wrong because Delta is buying more aircraft , not just "frames" and it has nothing to do with FARs , back on topic, I am glad to see D
85 777STL : To be honest, I think AA serves LGW purely because due to slot limitations, they can't serve LHR with those ex-US routes. That's not to say that AA w
86 Kaitak744 : Aren't they keeping 1 daily DFW-LGW? They are also starting JFK-STN, so, the are not all about LHR.
87 Gigneil : I would think switching Raleigh would be a bad idea, considering that GSK or whatever they're called these days are located closer to Gatwick, yes? NS
88 DeltaDC9 : AA indicated this publicly. I would, a yappy Chihuahua. Too much attitude in too small a frame. Yes they are. So what? How is this relevant? Ever hea
89 Itsnotfinals : is that why WN is the largest Domesitc Carrier in the US?
90 DeltaDC9 : No, price and route structure are.
91 Bok269 : They did buy the frames didn't they? Saying you baught a part of a whole isn't a false statement. I brought the FARs up because you referenced them,
92 Itsnotfinals : Price of what? WN is the largest domestic passenger carrier (there, clarified)
93 DeltaDC9 : Sorry, I thought that would be painfully obvious, TICKETS......
94 Itsnotfinals : what does that have to do with anything?
95 DeltaDC9 : Why are we having this silly discussion? You asked: I said price and route structure are. It is a fact. You cant be the biggest unless you are going
96 Itsnotfinals : it's incorrect, see post 62, those in the industry say aircraft not frame.
97 Bok269 : just because someone in the industry says it one way, doesn't mean there aren't more than one way to say it. ITs just a way some people post here. An
98 Itsnotfinals : If people want to sound uninformed and use incorrect terms while professing to be a fan of aviation, so be it.
99 Bok269 : Can we agree to stop this? This is getting stupid (Im not saying I agree, but rahter that it is taking away from the thread and is wasting both our t
100 777STL : I thought those three routes were all going LHR, maybe they're not, but at least one of the DFW frequencies is. This argument over semantics is child
101 Post contains images DeltaDC9 : Nice! I too thought Boeing and the others made airplanes, which is simply a type of aircraft. Are you saying that is incorrect? Who exactly is soundi
102 DeltaDC9 : Disagree, Southwest's business plan revolves around price differentiation. They could not have grown to their current size if they did not reduce ope
103 777STL : You're completely missing the point. Yes, it has nothing to do with ticket prices. The whole point of a low cost carrier is to keep costs low, hence
104 DAL767400ER : Correct, though I'd venture that has more to do with them not getting the additional slots at LHR to switch both DFW flights. After all, once everyth
105 Kaitak744 : Well, it has advantages. LGW and LHR are not 10 minutes away. They serve different parts of the London area. Perhaps AA gets a lot of people from sou
106 WorldTraveler : some of DL's 767 options are convertible to 777s. No they won't. The 787 costs $120M or so and delivers a 20% reduction or so in fuel burn. Winglets
107 Sxf24 : It will probably stay stored.
108 Sxf24 : Boeing may find a few earlier production slots, but has not reserved slots for specific airlines. For the record, AA never said anything to the effec
109 Post contains links BosWashSprStar : Under Grinstein, it was not just a rumor: http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/2007/02/delta_ceo_on_us.html However, new management may well feel differentl
110 DeltaDC9 : that is a very good point, it pobably is a big factor, but not the only one. Cost of money, stock price, current fleets, influence with A & B, and ot
111 Jfk777 : The UK is 40 % of all USA to Europe traffic, JFK to LHR is 10% of the whole Atlantic market alone. While Delta is the biggest in 60% of the market th
112 Jfk777 : Competiting against Virgin Atlantic and British Airways is different then against Alitalia and Iberia with limited service to the USA.
113 Alitalia744 : Yes it is in some aspects, but the question is has BA and VS taken hits in their trans-atlantic sector (ex JFK-LHR) vs upstarts? Also - if Delta's co
114 Itsnotfinals : yes , very good, you didn't say "Frames" thank you! Airplane, Aircraft, very good.
115 777STL : Obviously you are if you think the fares an airline charges is an indicator of its size. Yes, I can see this point went way over your head as well. I
116 Post contains links DeltaDC9 : Quoting 777STL (Reply 115): Obviously you are if you think the fares an airline charges is an indicator of its size. Never said it was an indicator, y
117 Jfk777 : Its not about flying or not flying to LHR, its about what and how DL flies to LHR. They can choose to remain a marginal player or do it right from da
118 777STL : Well since you're essentially arguing semantics with me instead of explaining your points, I'll take that as you don't know what you're talking about
119 Post contains links DeltaL1011man : ok here it is i have posted this 500000000 times but why not one more http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1182...2839877.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us also
120 Gigneil : All pointless. They'll offer what they feel they can make money on. The trend is AWAY from First Class. Not towards it. NS
121 WorldTraveler : Your numbers are considerably inflated. check out aviation daily this week... they have statistics on the size of the market to the US from all parts
122 Jfk777 : The trend on most routes to Europe is away from First, you are right. LHR is not your average Atlantic market, this is why BA has so many flights fro
123 Gigneil : The bottom line is that LHR is not Delta's primary target market. NS
124 Post contains images Aloha73G : And soon, DL's Business Elite service will be pretty much identical to Upper Class....with a little Southern Charm, and much better uniforms -Aloha!
125 Itsnotfinals : I hope they got their money back, everyone knows WN fares are the same or higher than many of the legacies on competing routes on all but walk up far
126 WorldTraveler : I'm not sure that is an accurate statement. DL hasn't had access to LHR. However, even when they get in, it's not likely they will be a major player
127 DeltaL1011man : DL has 3 slots i think it will be 2 ATL 1 JFK some think 2 JFK 1 ATL and some say 1 ATL 1 JFK 1 LAX
128 Amirs : Hopefully they will upgrade JFK - TLV to 772 once the 77L replace the 772 on some routes.
129 SESGDL : Doubtful, long routes that can be flown with the 763 will likely stay 763s. DL has bigger fish to fly with its new 77Ls, ATL-JFK-BOM, ATL-JNB, etc. J
130 RwSEA : I disagree. The first two 777LR's will likely go on JFK-BOM, freeing up the existing -200ERs to fly ATL-PVG (assuming DL gets the rights). The only o
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