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AA Closer To Returning To Asuncion  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5116 times:

From good sources, AA is very close to making a return to Asuncion, Paraguay, and it is right now looking very likely for May-June 2008. However, unlike a non-stop flight that AA would prefer, lack of aircraft means the flight will operate via Sao Paulo or Rio de Janeiro, with a 767-300ER on a daily basis. AA was hoping to return with a daily 757 non-stop, but with European expansion and the continuing hopes that Brazil will open up the Northeast markets (at this point, I'm shocked AA is still putting up with them), there probably won't be aircraft to run a dedicated service.


a.
70 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5098 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
AA is very close to making a return to Asuncion, Paraguay, and it is right now looking very likely for May-June 2008.

That's great. ASU is a market that should be on the AA map, given AA's presence in just about every other major city in South/Latin America, and ASU needs AA back.

Is this shift due to the rescinding of that government-regulated, mandatory travel agent commission, or what?

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
at this point, I'm shocked AA is still putting up with them

I can't either but, I suppose, AA is smart enough to recognize that if they can get into the market now, as quickly as possible, the potential pay-off long-term will be huge: as, in a market like this that is going to grow so much, there will be a major benefit to being the first major player in the game.

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
there probably won't be aircraft to run a dedicated service.

Honestly, in the short-run, I think that's fine: ASU will probably move to a dedicated nonstop 757 service within a few years, but in the interim, seeing as AA will once again - just as before - be about the only show in town, a 767 routed via Brazil (my guess is GRU, not GIG) will be just fine, as at least it will allow them to pick up some local Brazil-Paraguay passengers on the way and help the flight out at the beginning, plus help build up some cargo contracts again via the 767's larger belly capacity.

Let's hope it happens!


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5061 times:

AA certainly wants to return to ASU but there is no need to pull aircraft that are necessary to predict competitive routes. If Brazil outside of GIG and GRU open up (not sure the NE but all of Brazil), AA has to be ready to move in; DL will be ready one way or the other. Actually, AA is in good position if it pulled some 757s off of domestic service - even if they used domestic configured aircraft in the short term. Nonetheless, AA is on the verge of being marginalized at JFK and is having to fight back while S. America is under attack as well - by NK from FLL to northern Latin America and DL to southern S America.

You haven't said why AA is now returning but I suspect that Paraguay realizes the damage to their economy is far greater without AA service than whatever it costs in agency comissions.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5034 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):
. If Brazil outside of GIG and GRU open up (not sure the NE but all of Brazil), AA has to be ready to move in; DL will be ready one way or the other.

It is extremely, extremely unlikely that Brazil will open up as a free-for-all, but rather on a case-by-case basis. AA knows this, which is why they have pending applications to add fourteen weekly flights to new markets in Brazil. Delta, meanwhile, has zero pending applications. I don't think they are as interested in other markets as some others do. If they were, why haven't they applied? They haven't even been able to work out a stable schedule for their additional ATL-GRU flights in the past three years.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):
You haven't said why AA is now returning but I suspect that Paraguay realizes the damage to their economy is far greater without AA service than whatever it costs in agency comissions.

Pretty much. They worked with Aerolineas Argentinas to bring them back, and now they are shifting their focus to please American Airlines.

[Edited 2007-09-15 04:45:17]


a.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5013 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Delta, meanwhile, has zero pending applications. I don't think they are as interested in other markets as some others do. If they were, why haven't they applied? They haven't even been able to work out a stable schedule for their additional ATL-GRU flights in the past three years.

Why would Delta have pending applications if they don't have a viable market in the northeast to serve? I know there has been talk about Delta doing Atlanta-Salvador but honestly, even that, to me, seems like a stretch, at least now. Delta has proven time and again that it is very good at plugging major business and tourism capitals into the ATL hub pipeline and making them work, but it has also proven time and again that it has a hard time profitably filling flights from its ATL superhub to smaller cities in Latin America. AA, via Miami, would have absolutely no problem filling 50 more flights per week to Brazil's northeast, but I just don't see the market being able to support Delta just yet - maybe in a few years, after AA's and TAM's Miami flights build the market up, but as for now, I don't think so. Could be wrong, though - should be interesting to see how the U.S.-Northeast Brazil market develops over the next few years (no thanks to INAC, of course).


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5006 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
It is extremely, extremely unlikely that Brazil will open up as a free-for-all, but rather on a case-by-case basis. AA knows this, which is why they have pending applications to add fourteen weekly flights to new markets in Brazil. Delta, meanwhile, has zero pending applications.

There is no authority to request so neither DL or AA have any pending route applications. If you think DL is not beating the bush looking for new opportunities just like AA is doing, you are sorely mistaken. The US government simply will not allow AA or any other airline to craft its own routes at the exclusion of other carriers; that is an overriding concern of the US gov't in int'l air service negotiations.

When Brazil opens, it will not be via a private deal for AA.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4990 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):
AA is on the verge of being marginalized at JFK

..you always state on your posts that "AA will become "marginalized" at JFK"...please do explain.........



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4973 times:

I don't know I ALWAYS say that but AA has two major int'l routes left that it doesn't face competition from DL on - NRT and EZE. (by next spring). Further, DL has finally become a viable and profitable competitor on the transcon markets and offers a much broader portfolio throughout the US. B6 and DL both offer better coach products than AA and serve more markets. AA is not dead but they do not have the advantage they once had and they are being forced to expand to keep from being completely run over. Problem is that DL is expanding faster both domestically and internationally while B6 is still in very good shape at JFK. Why do you think AA execs are proposing caps at JFK while the same time adding flights. They sound just like Ms. Clinton.

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4969 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):
AA is on the verge of being marginalized at JFK and is having to fight back while S. America is under attack as well

Ah, WT, please do keep posting - your commentary provides such excellent comic relief for oh-so-many.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):
When Brazil opens, it will not be via a private deal for AA.

It won't need to be a private deal because, again, AA isn't really going to have much competition. The market from the U.S. to Northeast Brazil is not big enough or strong enough right now to support two U.S. carriers - and of the two names that have been thrown around, AA is without question the stronger of the two in this market. There is absolutely no way that Delta via ATL would be able to compete with AA via MIA because of the complete lack of O&D. If Delta thinks they can make SSA work, good for them, but I don't see it happening in the short-run. Only time will tell.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4950 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 8):


It won't need to be a private deal because, again, AA isn't really going to have much competition.

Yeah, you've said that before but the reality is that DL is now the 2nd largest airline to deep S. America and they are on the verge of taking the same title for the entire region. Not bad for an airline that started flying to S. America a little over 10 years ago. And they've managed to do it almost exclusively from ATL - a hub that everyone seems to think has no Latin American potential. Just wait til they start building out JFK and LAX to Latin America.

Your continued "only AA can make it work" attitude has been shown to be wrong time and time again. And it will be again. Guaranteed.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4950 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):
There is no authority to request so neither DL or AA have any pending route applications

Really? So why does AA have a pending application for an exception to the US-Brazil air treaty to fly to Recife and Salvador? There is an authority to request, it is called an exemption. Just like those exemptions that let DL and AA fly extra flights to GRU and GIG during the holidays.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):
When Brazil opens, it will not be via a private deal for AA.

No one said it would. However, it will be on a case-by-case basis, and so far only AA has requested approval from INAC to operate flights to markets outside of GRU and GIG.



a.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4937 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
No one said it would. However, it will be on a case-by-case basis, and so far only AA has requested approval from INAC to operate flights to markets outside of GRU and GIG.

You obviously have forgotten about the requests that DL has made to ANAC - which they have acknowledged.

None of it is permissible under the current treaty, and I repeat, won't be granted until Brazil offers enough service for the US to fairly offer something to more than one carrier. The days of the "chosen instrument" died with Pan Am.


User currently offlineDc10s2hnl From New Zealand, joined Aug 2006, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4897 times:

Is AA looking at anymore South American destinations besides northeast Brazil and ASU? Perhaps a 757 nonstop to MAO or reinstating a tag-on to CNF again?

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4889 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):

You obviously have forgotten about the requests that DL has made to ANAC - which they have acknowledged.

No, I haven't, because I'm not aware of them and have yet to see proof of them. I have, however, read plenty of articles, in Portuguese, talking about Delta's potential interests in the region and how Delta is exploring it. I have no doubts it is is something Delta is looking into, I just don't think they will be making it priority.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
None of it is permissible under the current treaty, and I repeat, won't be granted until Brazil offers enough service for the US to fairly offer something to more than one carrier.

DL and AA's extra GRU/GIG flights aren't "permissible" under the current US-Brazil air treaty either, and they exist. I never said that Brazil would be unfair to multiple carriers. They won't. They will be very fair. What I've said is I don't think any airline other than AA is in a rush to serve these markets. That's what I believe. I may very well be wrong.

The US DOT also takes no sides in the issue. If Brazil where to grant, for example, only seven exemptions to serve Northeast, and all seven went to AA, then AA would get them and others would be locked out. The US DOT wouldn't care. I don't think that would happen. I think Brazil will fairly grant the same amount of frequency exemptions to any airline that requests them, I just don't see anybody asking for them except for AA.

[Edited 2007-09-15 06:13:22]


a.
User currently offlineAAL0616 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 272 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4866 times:

Not to disappoint the DAL contingent, however, Northeast Brazil routes, if or when approved by Brazil, will be flown to and from MIA before any other USA market for several logical and irrefutable reasons, which have been discussed so far in this thread. That said, the USA carrier will be AAL. The ops plans, aircraft and crew scheduling are tenatively in place for the winter and spring schedules. The plan has been in place for some time.

While not qualified to objectively comment on the statements concerning the immnent demise of AAL in the face of a worldwide DAL onslaught, the Northeast Brazil market, if available, is not an opportunity in which I would advise DAL to tangle with AAL. Among other things, o/d MIA traffic swamps ATL. And, pardon the ignorance, it remains to be proven that ATL can supplant MIA as the premier hub of the Americas, for numerous reasons. Elsewhere, the reports here of AAL's impending obituary are at least somewhat premature.

Regarding ASU, it looks like a tag short term even though no one really wants to do it that way. The Paraguay authorities have perhaps finally realized the error of giving AAL a very valid reason to withdraw from ASU, if unwillingly. The preferred return appearance is the night/day 752(w) turn.


User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4841 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 7):
AA is not dead but they do not have the advantage they once had and they are being forced to expand to keep from being completely run over. Problem is that DL is expanding faster both domestically and internationally while B6 is still in very good shape at JFK. Why do you think AA execs are proposing caps at JFK while the same time adding flights.

Ummm... isn't the FAA also hinting at the same concept? isn't it possible they just know what needs to be done?

as a New Yorker, something has to be done... I personally blame DL and B6 for the problems at JFK due to the recent (past few years) increase in flights... not that I blame the, clearly there is a market.. however since the two carriers have rapidly expanded, things have only gotten worse... weather it's a US, AA, CO, DL, B6 compromise or a FAA Mandate, I don't care at this point... the delays are ridiculous whatever carrier you fly... and btw, on a clear day, even though it's scheduled for, the 50 minute taxi time to take off is a delay... even ORD can operate more efficiently that that...

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 14):
And, pardon the ignorance, it remains to be proven that ATL can supplant MIA as the premier hub of the Americas, for numerous reasons. Elsewhere, the reports here of AAL's impending obituary are at least somewhat premature.

:D



Why do I fly???
User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1465 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4693 times:

I am happy to hear this. Asunción is one of the cities in South America I would like to see. I have been searching for routes and from LAX I would need to fly to fly on LAN and change planes in Santaigo which makes the trip very long.

User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4679 times:

Hi!

Excelent news...excelent news indeed!!! I have plans to return to Paraguay in July 2009 and I was accepting the fact that I would have to fly anywhere in Brazil and then pick a TAM flight to ASU. Now with AA returning ( let's pray and hope for that...) there I must get the chance this time to fly with AA to ASU...are they keeping the previous route that was starting in MIA or they will fly from any other airport? Hummmm I feel that I'll have a great time flying with AA!!! Let's hope so!
Regards


User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4613 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):
Actually, AA is in good position if it pulled some 757s off of domestic service

AA only has domestically configured 757s in its system, and the aircraft have been used on routes of similar lengths.

Either way its about time the Paraguayan authorities get their act together and get service back to the US.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
Yeah, you've said that before but the reality is that DL is now the 2nd largest airline to deep S. America and they are on the verge of taking the same title for the entire region. Not bad for an airline that started flying to S. America a little over 10 years ago.

2nd doesn't mean as much when 1st is an 800 pound gorilla. There is no doubt in my mind that Delta has worked hard for its position as the number 2 carrier, but I doubt any US carrier will come to be anywhere near the size of American in Latin America, with the grand exception of Continental to Central America.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
Your continued "only AA can make it work" attitude has been shown to be wrong time and time again. And it will be again. Guaranteed.

American makes it work when they want to. They have a terrible habit of dumping routes too quickly, which I think we can both agree is a bit short sighted.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4583 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
DL and AA's extra GRU/GIG flights aren't "permissible" under the current US-Brazil air treaty either, and they exist. I never said that Brazil would be unfair to multiple carriers.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
The US DOT also takes no sides in the issue. If Brazil where to grant, for example, only seven exemptions to serve Northeast, and all seven went to AA, then AA would get them and others would be locked out.

Bet you somehow can't find DL's request for those extrabilateral flights, too. Just because you aren't able to find ANAC's documents doesn't mean they don't exist.

The DOT wants what they can get for all US carriers and they will allocate routes based on a route case if they are a limited number available. However, the US will not agree to any extrabilateral agreement that doesn't provide opportunities for all carriers to participate in network growth in the area.

You are also dilusional if you think Brazil or any other country wants AA and no one else. AA IS the 800 pound elephant and it is not good for anyone to have an 800 pound elephant free to run around unchecked. Brazilian authorities want Brazilian carriers to get a fair shot at any route growth and they also want as many US carriers participating as possible.

AND a major reason why Brazil is not moving forward w/ thesse proposals is because many of these new routes are best suited for 757s and smaller; Brazilian carriers simply don't have the right aircraft to fly the routes. Because Brazil isn't going to open a bunch of routes where its carriers will lose to the US carriers, nothing happens and Brazilians continue to pay high prices for service that doesn't take them where they really want to go.

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 14):
Not to disappoint the DAL contingent, however, Northeast Brazil routes, if or when approved by Brazil, will be flown to and from MIA before any other USA market for several logical and irrefutable reasons, which have been discussed so far in this thread.

These are just more of your dreams to protect AA from the realities of a highly competitive market. AA acted for years if they would be the dominant and only carrier in th US transcons and that has now changed; other carriers now are solidly in the market and offering a better product for less. AA hid behind limited access to LHR in order to protect its profits and that too is falling. They ran UA out of the NYC-London route but CO and DL will provide formidable competition which is why AA has written down the value of its LHR slots, a clear evidence that AA will not get the revenue premium it once enjoyed despite record prices being paid for the slots themselves. And AA thought they would be king of the hill in DFW until the citizens said they were tired of being choked to death by AA's fares - so WN is now able to price markets from DAL throughout the country and will be gradually gaining the right to fly those routes.

You can only live off of a monopoly position for so long.

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 14):
And, pardon the ignorance, it remains to be proven that ATL can supplant MIA as the premier hub of the Americas, for numerous reasons.

No one said ATL would supplant MIA... but ATL is the 2nd largest gateway to Latin America and DL is doing that from a hub which many here repeatedly say has no O&D.

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 15):
Ummm... isn't the FAA also hinting at the same concept? isn't it possible they just know what needs to be done?

All kinds of people have hinted at all kinds of solutions but I can assure you that when B6 and DL tell legislators in smaller cities up and town the eastern seaboard that they will cut service to NYC, the howls of protest will send the FAA back to the drawing board.

The answer is to grow the ATC system in order for it to handle the demand that exists.

CO has already announced that it will draw down some of its EWR operation in order to build up CLE; DL doesn't use JFK as a costly primary domestic connecting hub because they have CVG and ATL to do that. The free market is the best place to decide how service should be allocated and what the cost should be for customers who choose to use epensive airports - and delays of necessity create costs.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 18):
2nd doesn't mean as much when 1st is an 800 pound gorilla.

which, if you want to believe this statement, further supports my notion that AA has been marginalized in NYC and to Europe. CO and DL both are larger across the Atlantic than AA as well as in terms of total destinations offered from NYC. So, if you want to argue that 2nd place doesn't count, AA surely doesn't matter to Europe or in NYC.

The more intelligent approach is to say that being in 1st place is an advantage but it isn't a place where one can rest on its laurels nor does it mean that other carriers can't continue to chip away at your dominance. DL and CO surely take AA seriously in NYC and Latin America but they also recognize the opportunities available to them. At the same time, AA mgmt (despite what some a.netters think), takes CO and DL seriously and knows they very much can extract some major hide from AA's backside.


User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4511 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 19):
which is why AA has written down the value of its LHR slots,

That was something they had planned on doing, they have mentioned it in their annual reports for the past few years.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 19):
a clear evidence that AA will not get the revenue premium it once enjoyed despite record prices being paid for the slots themselves

Continental and Delta will give American a run for their money, that said, American still is and will remain bigger in the NYC-London market because of the number of frequencies they offer. Remember American will have 8 daily flights to London from New York when Open Skies goes into effect. Delta and Continental combined won't have that much frequency to London.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 19):
The free market is the best place to decide how service should be allocated and what the cost should be for customers who choose to use epensive airports - and delays of necessity create costs.

 checkmark 

I couldn't a gree more. I was disappointed when Mr. Arpey came out and suggested slot restricting JFK. IMO let passengers decide with their wallets.


User currently offlineAsuflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4497 times:

I really am happy that AA is coming back here becuase Tam Mercosur is just a disgrace

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4408 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 19):
The DOT wants what they can get for all US carriers and they will allocate routes based on a route case if they are a limited number available. However, the US will not agree to any extrabilateral agreement that doesn't provide opportunities for all carriers to participate in network growth in the area.

First of all, stop putting words into my mouth like you always do. I never, never, never said that Brazil wants AA and nobody else. What I have said is that a) I don't think any other airline except AA is going to go for flights to Northeast Brazil (at least initially) and b) the US DOT would not care if, in a hypothetical situation, only one US airline was granted extra flights (they really don't care at all).

If Brazil was to say, "we are going to open up only 7 extra frequencies for flights to the Northeast), and they all went to AA, then tough for DL. They all went to AA, and DOT wouldn't care. If they all went to DL, then tough for AA. DOT wouldn't care. I think you are forgetting that US DOT does this all the time (i.e. Brazil, China, Argentina, Colombia).

[Edited 2007-09-15 22:31:31]


a.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4371 times:

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 20):
Continental and Delta will give American a run for their money, that said, American still is and will remain bigger in the NYC-London market because of the number of frequencies they offer. Remember American will have 8 daily flights to London from New York when Open Skies goes into effect. Delta and Continental combined won't have that much frequency to London.

True... but the a.net mindset that the biggest fish in the pond is the only one that matters is just plain wrong. DL and CO will be a force in LHR just as AA is in Germany and Italy even though DL is much larger there.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
What I have said is that a) I don't think any other airline except AA is going to go for flights to Northeast Brazil (at least initially) and b) the US DOT would not care if, in a hypothetical situation, only one US airline was granted extra flights (they really don't care at all).

and I've said that a) DL is very much interested in many routes outside of GRU and GIG, including to the NE. You will be shown to be wrong and b) the US Dept. of State will not sign a treaty that adds so little incremental capacity in the light of the huge demand for increased service. It does nothing for the US to add such a pitifully small amount of additional capacity.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
DOT wouldn't care.

The DOT does care... and your cases are not good examples because they do not represent a case where the US agreed to only an incremental 7 weekly flights in one treaty revision.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4361 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 23):
a) DL is very much interested in many routes outside of GRU and GIG, including to the NE. You will be shown to be wrong

I might be shown to be wrong, who knows. You might be shown wrong instead.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 23):
b) the US Dept. of State will not sign a treaty that adds so little incremental capacity in the light of the huge demand for increased service.

It has nothing to do with singing a treaty. Again, it has to do with granting exemptions beyond the current air treaty, in which DOT will have no protest. I don't think you can get this through your head, and I'm really not going to talk about it any further. DOT doesn't have to approve the exemptions. They didn't have to approve DL and AA's exemptions to operate extra GRU/GIG flights during the summer and winter holidays. They won't have to approve any hypothetical exemption DL or AA would get to fly to Northeast Brazil.



a.
25 WorldTraveler : You are wrong. I can assure you. The US doesn't SING treaties. They SIGN them. All air service agreements and any revisions to them are negotiated by
26 LipeGIG : AA and DL thru US Embassy in Brasilia informed ANAC and Brazilian Government about their intention to fly to Brazilian Northeast in the same way Braz
27 Post contains links MAH4546 : I never insist anything such. The funny thing is that you talk like that about Delta, but fail to realize it. It's fine though. That's the way you wa
28 Commavia : Very, very interesting. This could, perhaps, be a very good use for the 757 block and crews that would have been committed to SSA/REC if those two fl
29 CV990 : Hi! Very interesting the article on the paraguayan homepage PPM, it looks that the negotiations are very, very advanced. It's quite understandable to
30 YHZ : Well I would hope that DINAC woud improve the security at the airport...it was only a month ago armed gunmen were able to go right to the internationa
31 Post contains images Incitatus : Considering recent announcements, DL is bound to become the largest Saturday carrier to Latin America...
32 WorldTraveler : you actually didn't misspell, you misused. Your spell check works fine. It's the logic check that's a bit faulty. You know, as much as you want to sa
33 Tommy767 : As said, AA is a gorilla in the LHR market. Even when the slots open up, DL and CO wont nearly make up the amount of frequencies or seats that AA cur
34 WorldTraveler : read the whole thead, including what I have said, in context. I have never said there will be no problem with AA continuing its leading position in L
35 MAH4546 : You are going to be quite surprised when you see what new routes AA has in store for their pretty new JFK terminal, beyond the recent Milan and Barce
36 SJOtoLIR : I am questioning if ASU could support more than a daily service in such route? It has to be taken into consideration the service given by Tam Mercosu
37 Incitatus : Delta's only justification to go after Atlanta-NE Brazil flights is to take up bilateral and ex-bilateral space to prevent American from adding more f
38 AAJFKSJUBKLYN : Terminal 8 (the old one is gone btw)...all flights out of New T8...it was kind of sad to see the rat trap with no activity today when I dropped the pa
39 MAH4546 : Delta will learn that very quickly if they attempt to enter the market, but I suspect Delta realizes this, which is why, as I've said, I don't forese
40 AAL0616 : That was not the point, which is that in the case of SSA and REC, you can make money or justify a route from MIA, not ATL. That being the case, the U
41 Commavia : That's an interesting point that I've heard before. I've heard from many people in NY who have status with multiple airlines (usually AA and CO) that
42 AAL0616 : There is much truth in this. Off the top of my head, I do not have statistics available; however, thinking about how passenger loads tend to appear i
43 LipeGIG : And what's the difference, can you explain ? You believe there is business ties between SSA/REC and MIA that couldn't apply for ATL ? Let me explain
44 MAH4546 : The difference lies more in the fact that, for now at least, there is only room for one U.S. airline in the market, and the airline that will win tha
45 Commavia : For a multitude of reasons. Not just that they are the strongest airline in the Latin American market, and the strongest airline in the Latin America
46 LipeGIG : American will not receive both markets never. They will receive one and Delta will receive another one. Commavia, can't compare the presence on Latin
47 MAH4546 : You do realize that American Airlines is the second largest airline in New York City, with quite a larger presence than Delta? They are the largest a
48 MAH4546 : Back to the original topic, I was told today that the route will operate via Buenos Aires this time around.
49 PU752 : A triangle route MIA-EZE-ASU-MIA or MIA-EZE-ASU-EZE-MIA ? will it be year round ?..................... if not triangle I find this quite odd and why
50 MAH4546 : I believe it will be a tag-on, so MIA-EZE-ASU-EZE-MIA. The eventual plan is to make it non-stop, or offer non-stops on certain days, and flights via
51 YHZ : I think that having it operate from EZE or GRU would be the most beneficial. MIA originating pax won't care that much, as this is the only way to conn
52 MAH4546 : Yes, there is. This isn't as small a market as people think. Asunción is also probably the most underserved city in South America. If they don't go
53 PU752 : I get your point, but theres a reason why Asuncion is the most under served city in South America, Paraguay is quite a poor country and although this
54 MAH4546 : It largely has to with Paraguay's policies, which are very unfriendly to foreign airlines and make flying to Paraguay extremely expensive to the poin
55 WorldTraveler : I can't wait to see DL prove you wrong. And they will. Read it and weep! It will also be significantly more expensive for AA than DL's. Unless AA qui
56 LipeGIG : Not only one, but 3. 1 from DFW, 2 from MIA. Because ANAC probably does not allow AA to run such legs from GRU anymore. No further slots are availabl
57 MAH4546 : They might, they might not. Whose trying to win a discussion? I sure am not, the only one that is is you. I have my opinion on the matter, and you ha
58 WorldTraveler : then give up trying to make your points and arguing that no one but AA will succeed. And by all means, if you want to argue, then expect someone else
59 AAL0616 : MAH, FYI, a potential 763 weekly service pattern: MIA-EZE-MVO-EZE-MIA 2/WK MIA-EZE-ASU-EZE-MIA 5/WK MIA-MVO-MIA 5/WK MIA-ASU-MIA 2/WK After spending 2
60 Post contains images HPAEAA : :D RR 54 v RR 11... I'll admit, the battle in this thread earned him my RR... and dismayed me against you World Traveler... you seam to be DL only...
61 MAH4546 : I think it could work, though I think that reducing MVD by one weekly flight and making it 3x MIA-ASU/4x MIA-MVD would be better.
62 Post contains links MAH4546 : Surprise surprise... http://www.ppn.com.py/html/noticias/noticia-ver.asp?id=32805 (Spanish) Travel agents in Paraguay are asking Paraguay's senate pre
63 Commavia : Stupid, stupid. Would it be possible for Paraguay's sente to save face by not rescinding the mandatory 6% commission, but cutting AA a break by, say,
64 MAH4546 : It should be noted that while the travel agents are complaining, the general feeling from politicians is that the commission needs to be cut. It woul
65 B752OS : You honestly don't think NYC can support flights to to DXB and KBP based on O&D and VFR traffic? Look at ATL and the amount feed they pump through th
66 PU752 : 6% of the ticket prices goes to the travel agencies, IIRC.
67 Cslusarc : Why can't Travel Agents in Paraguay get with the flow, and adjust to today's economic realities? Travel agents are no longer the powerful group they o
68 Incitatus : Then Delta will either not start service or lose buckets of money and exit the market. Then maybe ANAC will realize it does not know any better and s
69 Commavia : Slight problem with your multi-airline theory, though: leisure traffic probably composes upwards of 90% of the market from the U.S. to Northeast Braz
70 LipeGIG : Your comment was based on US demand only. I explained that there is business demand Northeast-US. In this case, the demand is higher than you mention
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