Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service  
User currently offlineNational757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 720 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4372 times:

Very disappointing to announce the suspension of a route 23 days after the inaugural. This route had potential however given the extended distance, this route needed to have high load factors and a high average fare to remain viable.

Quote:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Sept. 14, 2007

ALLEGIANT AIR ANNOUNCES END OF SERVICE

FROM GREENVILLE-SPARTANBURG, S.C. TO LAS VEGAS

(Greer, S.C.)-- Allegiant Air announced today it will end its scheduled service between Greenville-Spartanburg, S.C. and Las Vegas, Nev. The carrier's last day of scheduled service to Las Vegas will be Dec. 3, 2007. Customers with reservations Dec. 7 and beyond will be contacted by Allegiant directly to receive a full refund.



Formula 1 Grand Prix Trips: YUL '08, MEL '09, BCN '10, SIN '11, and LGW '12
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDeltaAVL From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1893 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4296 times:

Oh, this is terrible news!  Sad

I thought this route would be successful, but I guess not this time. Ever think they'll try GSP-LAS again?



"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5951 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4258 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

GSP-LAS is quite a stretch for an MD-80, isn't it?

User currently offlineDelta767 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4146 times:

Is this an indication of the GSP market's low response to the new route or the economics of offering this long-range service overall? Hoping to see more LAS-East Coast service soon.

User currently offlineNational757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4112 times:

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 1):
Ever think they'll try GSP-LAS again?

Perhaps in a few years they will try this route again if Allegiant obtains a more fuel efficient aircraft type.

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 2):
GSP-LAS is quite a stretch for an MD-80, isn't it?

GSP-LAS is (was) currently the longest scheduled MD-80 route in the United States at 1850 Nautical Miles.

Quoting Delta767 (Reply 3):
Is this an indication of the GSP market's low response to the new route or the economics of offering this long-range service overall?

A little of both in my opinion. Allegiant hasn't had much success in longer scheduled routes due in part to the economics of operating fuel guzzling MD-80 aircraft. The GSP market needed to sell lots of tickets at higher fares to cover costs and make the route viable long term..both of which did not happen.



Formula 1 Grand Prix Trips: YUL '08, MEL '09, BCN '10, SIN '11, and LGW '12
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9272 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4091 times:

Quoting National757 (Reply 4):
The GSP market needed to sell lots of tickets at higher fares to cover costs and make the route viable long term..both of which did not happen.

Sheesh... that is some risk to take! Maybe if they were to order 737NGs this might have worked. Those birds don't burn nearly as much fuel, which would allow them to offer the route at lower, more competitive fares. Don't US and WN offer plenty of LAS-East Coast flying though? Although I am not sure if GSP sees such service...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3308 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4081 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 5):
Maybe if they were to order 737NGs this might have worked.

The cost of acquiring or the debt service on the new plane would be much more than any fuel savings gained.

They pulled out of TOL-LAS claiming fuel was the driving factor. Why they even considered opening GSP-LAS is beyond me.


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9272 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 4019 times:

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 6):
They pulled out of TOL-LAS claiming fuel was the driving factor. Why they even considered opening GSP-LAS is beyond me.

Um ok... They dropped TOL service because of the cost of fuel, then the geniuses then thought that perhaps GSP would somehow magically work... Errrr, what were they thinking???



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9518 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3959 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 7):
Um ok... They dropped TOL service because of the cost of fuel, then the geniuses then thought that perhaps GSP would somehow magically work... Errrr, what were they thinking???

Funny, isn't it? I remember when I brought this up before Allegiant lovers were wanting to hang me out to dry.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineTcttx From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3948 times:

Quoting National757 (Reply 4):
Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 2):
GSP-LAS is quite a stretch for an MD-80, isn't it?

GSP-LAS is (was) currently the longest scheduled MD-80 route in the United States at 1850 Nautical Miles.

In the 80s, AA used to do one r/t IAD-LAX in the MD80.


User currently offlineDbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 908 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3923 times:

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 6):
The cost of acquiring or the debt service on the new plane would be much more than any fuel savings gained.

I wonder how much longer this argument will work when the price of oil is hovering around the $80/barrel range. Also, Allegiant keeps acquiring these older birds and although they're much cheaper than a brand new 737NG..they aren't getting them for free so they still have a debt load. Therefore you can't use the same argument NW uses (whose DC9s are all paid off) as to why it's cheaper to keep the old, gas guzzling, already paid for planes. Also the MD80s are older planes which will require more maintenance. If you keep adding these factors, eventually it will be economical to get newer planes.

Now you guys are probably going to laugh at me for suggesting this, but could Allegiant be a possible launch customer for the C-series (if it ever gets launched)? They could order 30-40 planes, and since they'd be a launch customer, they would get huge discounts on the deal. Although the C-series will seat somewhat fewer passengers than the MD80s, they could easily adjust their schedules to add frequency in order to get similar number of seats on the routes since most of their routes aren't daily. Also, isn't the C-series supposed to be able to do transcon flights??? It's a possibility...


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5846 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3914 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 7):
Um ok... They dropped TOL service because of the cost of fuel, then the geniuses then thought that perhaps GSP would somehow magically work... Errrr, what were they thinking???



Quoting STLGph (Reply 8):
Funny, isn't it? I remember when I brought this up before Allegiant lovers were wanting to hang me out to dry.

If you remember we ended up concluding that it was not just fuel costs at Toledo, Allegiant dropped TOL-LAS due to the combination of fuel costs and the competitive situation at TOL and Detroit.

"Unfortunately, due to escalating fuel costs and aggressive competitive conditions, we will end our Las Vegas service,"
http://www.toledofreepress.com/?id=2592

I don't know what is going on with GSP. I do know that GSP was the 4th highest fare airport in the country during Q1 2007 so Allegiant may have felt they could get a good fare margin there to cover costs.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9518 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3908 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 11):
aggressive competitive conditions

and that's so vague.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 11):
the competitive situation at TOL and Detroit.

that was your conclusion. i still say trying to blame Detroit is hogballs.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5846 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3887 times:

Quoting Dbo861 (Reply 10):
I wonder how much longer this argument will work when the price of oil is hovering around the $80/barrel range. Also, Allegiant keeps acquiring these older birds and although they're much cheaper than a brand new 737NG..they aren't getting them for free so they still have a debt load.

There has been rumors before that Allegiant has been looking at a 2nd aircraft type, to start adding it to the fleet in 2008 or 2009.

I'd have to take a look at the financials again but Allegiant is purchasing aircraft for both cash and financing. They have 8 aircraft coming for the next 8 months, 2 are being purchased debt free and the others financed. I think over the last year they have purchased outright many others in their fleet along with taking others on capital leases.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5846 posts, RR: 28
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3854 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 12):
Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 11):
aggressive competitive conditions

and that's so vague.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 11):
the competitive situation at TOL and Detroit.

that was your conclusion. i still say trying to blame Detroit is hogballs.

LOL Hhhmm, thats funny. You accepted the "competitive conditions" statement when G4resagent provided that quote a few months ago, right?

If we look at Detroit to Vegas currently, fares are only around $250 RT on US and Spirit for a weekend trip in October (F/Su).

TOL is only 50 miles from DTW, which means Allegiant would need to be close to that DTW price to compete for TOL passengers. Passengers might pay a few dollars more for convenience at TOL but leisure travellers are price sensititve and will driveaway if they see enough savings.

For $250 fares Allegiant can use its aircraft on shorter routes at lower cost and make more money.

And remember I never said its just because of competition. Its the ability to get the necessary revenue given the costs. If Allegiant doesn't have pricing power because of nearby competition then they are limited on the ability to increase revenue, especially if costs rise.

At GSP I don't know what has happened, I haven't seen the full press release yet. It could be too few passengers booking the route. I've said for years "use it or lose it" when it comes to Allegiant's routes.

They typically are not afraid to say the reason why they end a city. I've seen them bring up fees, lack of bookings, etc., not just fuel cost or competition. And they are not afraid to walk away if a route doesn't look profitable.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineTAN FLYR From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1920 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3799 times:

Quoting Tcttx (Reply 9):
In the 80s, AA used to do one r/t IAD-LAX in the MD80.

Are you sure? The longest MD-80 trip I remember from that time frame was BNA-LAX. MAybe an MD80 could make LAX-IAD with the right tailwinds, etc, But I just don't see IAD-LAX as doable unless it went out half full and the tanks filled to the rim.

In the 80's IAD -LAX was a mostly DC-10/ 767 market as I recall.


User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3789 times:

Quoting National757 (Reply 4):
GSP-LAS is (was) currently the longest scheduled MD-80 route in the United States at 1850 Nautical Miles.

1850 SM , it's only 1607 NM

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=l...STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=


User currently offlineDeltaAVL From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1893 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3723 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 8):
Funny, isn't it? I remember when I brought this up before Allegiant lovers were wanting to hang me out to dry.

You're just jealous. Get over yourself.  Wink

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 11):
I don't know what is going on with GSP. I do know that GSP was the 4th highest fare airport in the country during Q1 2007 so Allegiant may have felt they could get a good fare margin there to cover costs.

And where did you get this information?



"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
User currently offlineTcttx From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3693 times:

Quoting TAN FLYR (Reply 15):
n the 80's IAD -LAX was a mostly DC-10/ 767 market as I recall.

Sorry to get off topic, but yes AA's IAD-LAX in ths 80s/90s were mostly DC10 & 767, but there were scheduled MD80 flights also, at least as late '90 according to the 4/1/90 AA system timetable:

IAD-LAX
#97 815p 1038p MD80 X6 S

LAX-IAD
#92 1030p 628a# MD80 X6 S


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3661 times:

Was G4 having to leave passengers or bags in GSP? I'd think not, though GSP is decently high, as the runway there is pretty long. But involuntary bumps can rapidly turn a marginal route sour.


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3564 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 13):
There has been rumors before that Allegiant has been looking at a 2nd aircraft type, to start adding it to the fleet in 2008 or 2009.

Start the Airbus/Boeing rumors....  duck 

Considering the fact that some airlines have or in the process of retiring/returning to the lessor, 737 Classics and A320 family a/c of a similar (or slightly older) age of the G4 Mad Dog fleet, I'm sure that there are some deals to be had out there.

Allegiant is running into a situation that really puts them at a crossroads as it were. Limiting yourself to a certain fleet type can potentially stifle expansion plans, especially if those plans stretch the range of the fleet. If you're having to restrict loads due to conditions, it makes it more expensive to operate a route.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5846 posts, RR: 28
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3539 times:

It looks to me like this route ending is simply a lack of bookings, not the distance or oil prices.

When Allegiant announced GSP-LAS in June they ran a fare sale of $89 one way.

The announcement press release also said "After the introductory fare period, regular one-way fares on the route start as low as $109 one-way."
http://www.allegiantair.com/aaNews20070627a.php

Looking at fares for GSP-LAS today at Allegiant's web site, I see lots of $99 one-ways. They have had to lower fares below what they planned for the regular fare.

Sounds to me like the market didn't develop.

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 17):
And where did you get this information?

The DOT Consumer Air Fare Report. We can argue that there are problems with the data or methodology but to me it does provide a decent rough guide on fares at various cities. The rankings start on Page 35 in the Q1 2007 report. It pretty much has the airports I'd expect to see as the most expensive.
http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/domfares/web071.pdf



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineG4resagent From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3489 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 7):
Um ok... They dropped TOL service because of the cost of fuel, then the geniuses then thought that perhaps GSP would somehow magically work... Errrr, what were they thinking???

One could argue the same thing for TYS-LAS... but that is working.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Allegiant Announces SFB-HTS Huntington, WV Service posted Wed Aug 30 2006 16:03:51 by FATFlyer
The End Of UPS DC-8 Service? posted Sun Jan 1 2006 14:05:48 by Duke
End Of DL Widebody Service At LGA? posted Sat Dec 24 2005 20:13:34 by JFKLGANYC
Allegiant Announces South Bend To LAS posted Thu Jun 2 2005 19:48:42 by FATFlyer
Allegiant Announces McAllen, TX To Las Vegas posted Tue Apr 26 2005 16:57:11 by FATFlyer
End Of Domestic Widebody Service For NWA posted Sun Dec 2 2001 02:55:03 by Airbus_330_340
Allegiant Announces GSP-LAS posted Wed Jun 27 2007 18:08:59 by FATFlyer
Allegiant Announces GSP To FLL posted Tue Sep 4 2007 03:19:55 by KarlB737
Allegiant Announces Huntsville (AL) - Las Vegas posted Wed Jul 18 2007 18:38:03 by JetBlueGuy2006
The 757 Is The End Of Inflight Trans Atl Service posted Sat Jun 9 2007 20:20:45 by WetleaseWill